Weapons Banter Thread

[badboy00z]

+1 on the 1911. Its been my EDC for about a year now and I love it.

[myk]

September 25th, 6:06pm is taking too long to get here. F**k this 10 day wait period...

[Benson13]

September 25th, 6:06pm is taking too long to get here. F**k this 10 day wait period...

And I complained about the hour wait for my background check. Thanks for the perspective.

[myk]

Hour check for what? I guess there's always someone else that has it worse, lol. I've been reading a lot about DROS delays/horror stories for random reasons, even for people who have successfully purchased in the past and I've just been pacing back and forth in the living room. Hell I even jacked my schedule around at work just so I could do a pickup on the 10th day. Government bureaucracy can be a very ugly thing...

Edited September 24, 2012 by myk

[ErikElvis]

My average wait time is around 15-20 mins. My friend has been nailed a few times for the 3 day wait. But thats as long as it gets here. If they dont hear anything in 3 days you pick up your gun. Generally if your gonna get denied its immediately.

[Benson13]

In Colorado, you go to the gun store, pick out your gun, wait an hour for the background check, pay and take it home. I like to go to Red Robin (Yum) while I'm waiting for my guns.

[peter]

I waited 4 weeks for my latest purchase (GSG 1911)

[myk]

In Colorado, you go to the gun store, pick out your gun, wait an hour for the background check, pay and take it home. I like to go to Red Robin (Yum) while I'm waiting for my guns.

Wow, seriously? I wonder how different the processes are between Colorado and California, as in what takes the DOJ in California take so damn long.

I waited 4 weeks for my latest purchase (GSG 1911)

Wow, why 4 weeks?

[Chowser]

I haven't bought a gun from a gun store in several years, but it was relatively quick. 10 minutes or so. Except we were stuck there for an hour because they kept getting flags on my sergeant who was also there to purchase a gun.

The last few years I bought from a coworker (who is a licensed FFL dealer) and it takes him five minutes. I fill out the form, he calls the number and gets a response quickly.

The last time I did it was for three stripped AR15 lowers, a S&W 15-22 and a handgun. He called it all in at once and it didn't raise any red flags. All four were approved quickly.

It was a nice day. The 3 lowers were $50 each, the 15-22 was a birthday gift and the handgun was a promotional gift. (I was promoted the day after my birthday)

[myk]

I haven't bought a gun from a gun store in several years, but it was relatively quick. 10 minutes or so. Except we were stuck there for an hour because they kept getting flags on my sergeant who was also there to purchase a gun.

The last few years I bought from a coworker (who is a licensed FFL dealer) and it takes him five minutes. I fill out the form, he calls the number and gets a response quickly.

The last time I did it was for three stripped AR15 lowers, a S&W 15-22 and a handgun. He called it all in at once and it didn't raise any red flags. All four were approved quickly.

It was a nice day. The 3 lowers were $50 each, the 15-22 was a birthday gift and the handgun was a promotional gift. (I was promoted the day after my birthday)

What the hell? Does your speedy process have anything to do with your LEO status? Also, when your friend got red flags how did he resolve them on the spot? Out here, we have to call the CA DOJ and then wait days or weeks to sort things out...

[peter]

Wow, seriously? I wonder how different the processes are between Colorado and California, as in what takes the DOJ in California take so damn long.

Wow, why 4 weeks?

In Canada, pistols are considered restricted firearms and there's a bit more paperwork involved. It used to take only a few days here, but ever since the death of the Long Gun Registry, we've been noticing delays on just about everything. Some say it's because the department that handles all the registrations for restricted firearms laid off a lot of staff, others say they're just being *icks. Who knows.

[myk]

I guess some people really DO have it worse than we realize...

[Benson13]

IIRC the wait in CA isn't due to paperwork and calling it in but due to a law that makes you wait ten days to make your purchase. It's all pointless BS. They think if they make people wait people with bad intentions won't get guns. All it really does is prevent law abiding citizens from getting guns 10 days earlier. Terds don't buy guns from a legal dealership they buy them from fellow terds. This is why the Gov fails in so many ways, the politicians are all rich and are out of touch from how things are done in the "real" world.

[myk]

I know right. Here I am, paying over a grand for a neutered California compliant rifle, running through the government's hoops and obstacles and having to wait 10 agonizing days where I can be denied ownership for something as simple as a parking ticket, meanwhile the random gang banger down the street that same night gets a full auto version of my rifle, with a 30 round 'mag and picks it up with a '40, a pack of smokes on the way over to the....wherever gang members hang out...

Edited September 24, 2012 by myk

[Jasonc]

I know right. Here I am, paying over a grand for a neutered California compliant rifle, running through the government's hoops and obstacles and having to wait 10 agonizing days where I can be denied ownership for something as simple as a parking ticket, meanwhile the random gang banger down the street that same night gets a full auto version of my rifle, with a 30 round 'mag and picks it up with a '40, a pack of smokes on the way over to the....wherever gang members hang out...

This is why so many people who are "anit-gun" get it wrong. Punishing law-abiding citizens for the decisions of criminals.

[Mommar]

Actually both pro and anti gun people get it wrong. Pro people say they need to defend themselves against criminals and anti-people are so completely wrong about everything I don't have the time to list it here. We have guns to defends ourselves from the United States Military if our leaders ever chose to turn it on us. Defending ourselves from gang-bangers is just a small, convenient aside.

[Benson13]

Actually both pro and anti gun people get it wrong. Pro people say they need to defend themselves against criminals and anti-people are so completely wrong about everything I don't have the time to list it here. We have guns to defends ourselves from the United States Military if our leaders ever chose to turn it on us. Defending ourselves from gang-bangers is just a small, convenient aside.

Aaaahhhh, the scary but old school truth.

[Jasonc]

I would be more worried about things like riots, than our government turning on us. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but I've been in situations where a gun for protection would've been useful. I've also lived close enough to the L.A. riots in the day, when it was basically a coin toss if the group burning down the buildings and cars, would come our way or not. In any of those cases, it's not a great thing to be under equipped.

[Benson13]

I agree with Jasonc, better to be prepared than be caught with your pants down.

[anime52k8]

I know right. Here I am, paying over a grand for a neutered California compliant rifle, running through the government's hoops and obstacles and having to wait 10 agonizing days where I can be denied ownership for something as simple as a parking ticket, meanwhile the random gang banger down the street that same night gets a full auto version of my rifle, with a 30 round 'mag and picks it up with a '40, a pack of smokes on the way over to the....wherever gang members hang out...

I still think it's easier to just not live down the street from gang bangers. As for the 10 day waiting period, it's really more of a litmus test for whether or not you should be trusted with a dangerous device. Basically, if you're so inpatient and impulsive that you can't wait 10 days for a gun, you're probably are better off not owning one in the first place.

Honestly, a person with the mindset of 'I need guns now because ethnic minorities and the federal government are coming to slit my throat in my sleep' are a hell of a lot scarier to me than the hoards of gang bangers with AK-47's that supposedly live next door to me.

I'm all for people being able to own firearms, (hell, I'm cool with people owning bombs and rockets and tanks if that's what they're into) but I think it's silly to try and justify your gun lust with the delusion that you will someday be faced with a situation in which a gun could even potentially be useful and that it will in fact result in a more positive outcome than if you didn't have one. In the hand of a civilian, a gun is nothing more than a dangerous, expensive toy; no different from a speedboat or a muscle car. It's something you buy because it's loud and violent and the fact that you own it pisses people off. buy a gun for shits and giggles, but don't expect to ever accomplish anything good or meaningful with itbecause in all likelihood you won't.

[Mommar]

I still think it's easier to just not live down the street from gang bangers. As for the 10 day waiting period, it's really more of a litmus test for whether or not you should be trusted with a dangerous device. Basically, if you're so inpatient and impulsive that you can't wait 10 days for a gun, you're probably are better off not owning one in the first place.

Honestly, a person with the mindset of 'I need guns now because ethnic minorities and the federal government are coming to slit my throat in my sleep' are a hell of a lot scarier to me than the hoards of gang bangers with AK-47's that supposedly live next door to me.

I'm all for people being able to own firearms, (hell, I'm cool with people owning bombs and rockets and tanks if that's what they're into) but I think it's silly to try and justify your gun lust with the delusion that you will someday be faced with a situation in which a gun could even potentially be useful and that it will in fact result in a more positive outcome than if you didn't have one. In the hand of a civilian, a gun is nothing more than a dangerous, expensive toy; no different from a speedboat or a muscle car. It's something you buy because it's loud and violent and the fact that you own it pisses people off. buy a gun for shits and giggles, but don't expect to ever accomplish anything good or meaningful with itbecause in all likelihood you won't.

You really don't know anything.

[badboy00z]

Georgia is an awesome state for gun lovers. You can buy, sell and trade guns privately and you don't have to go through a dealer. There's no silly waiting period or a requirement to have your guns registered. If you buy a gun either online or at a FFL then those are registered. I got my first gun (Springfield Armory 1911) 2 months after moving here and my concealed carry permit about a month after. I ordered it online and was shipped in a week and picked it up about 10 days after. So I guess I did have to wait 10 days. lol. At the FFL I waited about 10-15 minutes for him to call in the background check. Once I got my permit all it takes is to fill out the form, pay a transfer fee and take your gun(s) home. I ordered a suppressor for my latest gun and it will take about 7 months until I have it in my hand.

[myk]

Mike, obviously you want to live far and away from people who would be likely to do you harm, but not everyone gets to choose where they live. A friend of a friend moved to New York, got a job in Times Square that had her working odd hours. She could only afford to live in certain types of neighborhoods; sure enough, one night coming home she was assaulted. However, I would argue that no one is safe anywhere-to say otherwise implies that only certain demographics have crime.

I would agree with you that militia-minded types that are out to kill anyone or anything they see as a challenge to their "freedom" is a scary person. I've always thought that, just like in the movie 28 days later, man's worst enemy was himself.

Finally, on the note about the muscle cars and such I have to respectfully disagree. As with all of my property, I buy into it because I like it, not because I'm worried about what the public thinks-their thoughts are irrelevant to me. If I was worried about what the public thought about my property I wouldn't be in my 30's playing with toy robots and anime "dolls". If no one ever stared at my '69 Charger R/T again it wouldn't affect me one bit...

Edited September 25, 2012 by myk

[Benson13]

I hope I never have to discharge a weapon again outside of recreational shooting. That being said, me with a gun, in a bad situation, I see nothing but a positive outcome.

There is a book called On Killing by Lt. Col David Grossman and I highly encourage anyone who owns a firearm to read it. It covers a lot of things but the thing that stuck out the most was his theory of sheep, sheepdogs, and wolves.

I've been a victim before and I will never play that role again. I pity people who hide from the very world they live in. People who live in their little worlds of rainbows, ponies, and gumdrops and always say "why me,why me?" after something bad happened to them. It's simple really, they didn't prepare themselves and thus looked like a target. That's the biggest reason people are targeted, the look like weakness. I'm not saying go overboard and freak out and think everyone is out to get you, but use risk management to assess whether or not you should be certain places or partake in certain activities.

That all being said, a smart and aware mindset is far more powerful than any weapon.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Benson13

[Uxi]

Well said.

The 10 day waiting period is so pointless... especially after you've already got the first firearm. If you're going to wig out why not just use the ones you have instead of waiting 10 days for a new one?? My "bullet button" on my scary looking weapons is so silly... especially when I consider the wood equipped rifles in more dangerous calibers that don't have any such limitation (to say nothing of ones like my SU-16) that uses the same magazines and is "featureless" and doesn't need the neutered device.

My favorite is still my ACR, bullet button or no.

[myk]

So...do gun makers have a special tooling just for restricted states to incorporate the bullet button? For example, I don't know what a non-bullet button AR-15 type weapon looks like. Another question: a friend of mine's dad is an old-timer with registered, but banned assault weapons-is he ever allowed to sell those things?

[anime52k8]

I hope I never have to discharge a weapon again outside of recreational shooting. That being said, me with a gun, in a bad situation, I see nothing but a positive outcome.

And I see the possibility of death, lawsuits and unintended casualties.

:edit:

You know, I think pro-gun supporters would have a much better time winning people over to their side and getting the laws they wanted if they thought more carefully about how they present their case to the court of public opinion. Far too many arguments on the side of gun rights boil down to "the world is a dangerous place, but because I have a gun I'm prepared; And I am a better person because of it." That kind of talk makes you come off as arrogant and threatening to those who are on the fence or already somewhat inclined to disagree with you. It also creates a cognitive dissidence when you use very 'i' centric arguments and then base them around fear and nebulous threats; The people listening start to hear the scary things you're warning them about and apply it to you. Appealing to fear and emotion only works for anti-gun advocates because they're applying negative attributes to an easily scapegoated outside party.

It's easy to say "what this group is doing is bad, and I'm against what they're doing, so therefore I am a good guy," and have people believe you. It's a lot harder to sell people on "what this group is doing is bad, so I should be allowed to do the same thing because I'm a good guy and need to defend myself against bad guys."

At the end of the day, It's always going to be easier for anti-gun advocates to appeal to emotions than for pro-gun advocates. The best corse of action isn't to try and beat them at their own game but to play to logic and take the rational high ground. you've got such better arguments to work with, and you'll convince a lot more people to side with you if you can take yourself out of the equation and present them with logical reasoning accompanied by verifiable evidence.

Edited September 26, 2012 by anime52k8

[Benson13]

Well that's the difference between you and I, I'll fight for my right to live while while you end up in a morgue or or wishing you stood up like a man to someone threatening you or your family.

That being said there may be situations where you are at a tactical disadvantage and acting may cause more harm than good. I'm not going to start a gun fight over a guy stealing my car but frak with my family and that person is done. I'm sorry that you worry more about lawsuits than if your family goes home intact. What would you say to your kid "sorry daddy couldn't get mommy away from the criminal,I'll try harder next time".

Also with my training, I'd be doing the world a disservice if a didn't remove these hypothetical tools from the surface of the Earth.

[anime52k8]

see, exactly my point.

[Benson13]

Doesn't matter one bit honestly. Keep doing what you're doing and I'll do my thing my way. That is the beauty of this nation after all. I've seen what people are capable of doing to one another because of a simple difference and it's horrifying. I have no desire to fight and I won't unless it's forced upon me. Once provoked I'm not jumping right the gun as it's a last resort. There are plenty of other tools I have at my disposal that will come into play before then.

As for your education, I couldn't care less and am unimpressed. Come back and let me know how you applied it and made a real difference in the world.

[renegadeleader1]

Can we cut it out with the politcal gun control stuff please? This thread is supposed to be about the weapons themselves, how to maintain them, and your collections. Not about wether you think its right or wrong to use them. Save that crap for CNN, Fox News, or whatever red state, blue state, purple state reporting that gets your rocks off.

Anyways that being said, check this out

Edited September 25, 2012 by renegadeleader1

[myk]

Bite, spit, tap, what the hell? Lol, I'll never doubt about being born in the wrong century again. Anyway yeah, the collections man. I plan on getting a pistol and a shotgun and then calling it a day. I've gotten a few recommendations for a handgun, what do you guys suggest for a shotgun?

[Chowser]

For a shotgun, go simple, pump, Remington 870 or Winchester. There are cheap $200 shotguns out there, I haven't had a chance to try any out. I currently have an old (PD retired) Beretta 1201FP semi-auto shotgun. Only because I've been using semi-auto shotguns since 1999. In fact, I've never used a pump shotgun in my life. Wouldn't know what to do with one.

On another note:

I broke down and ordered an HK45C with FDE frame yesterday. It was too good a deal to pass up for $885 new with 3 mags and night sights and the fact that HK will not be doing the 45C with the FDE frame for some time (this was a special run, they are only doing the full size HK45 with FDE frame for the immediate future).

Pics will be posted when it gets here (Jan/Feb).

Also, one of my friends who has been helping me throughout my divorce just surprised me last night with an upper as a late promotional gift (on the condition that when I'm ready to start dating again that I ask her out first).

Done.

I'll put it together today or tomorrow and post pics after I shoot it a bit.

I'll

[Benson13]

I would love to get my hands on an AA12 for a test run. I have very little experience with shotguns myself so I'm interested in this too.

[Jasonc]

And I see the possibility of death, lawsuits and unintended casualties.

:edit:

You know, I think pro-gun supporters would have a much better time winning people over to their side and getting the laws they wanted if they thought more carefully about how they present their case to the court of public opinion. Far too many arguments on the side of gun rights boil down to "the world is a dangerous place, but because I have a gun I'm prepared; And I am a better person because of it." That kind of talk makes you come off as arrogant and threatening to those who are on the fence or already somewhat inclined to disagree with you. It also creates a cognitive dissidence when you use very 'i' centric arguments and then base them around fear and nebulous threats; The people listening start to hear the scary things you're warning them about and apply it to you. Appealing to fear and emotion only works for anti-gun advocates because they're applying negative attributes to an easily scapegoated outside party.

It's easy to say "what this group is doing is bad, and I'm against what they're doing, so therefore I am a good guy," and have people believe you. It's a lot harder to sell people on "what this group is doing is bad, so I should be allowed to do the same thing because I'm a good guy and need to defend myself against bad guys."

At the end of the day, It's always going to be easier for anti-gun advocates to appeal to emotions than for pro-gun advocates. The best corse of action isn't to try and beat them at their own game but to play to logic and take the rational high ground. you've got such better arguments to work with, and you'll convince a lot more people to side with you if you can take yourself out of the equation and present them with logical reasoning accompanied by verifiable evidence.

:edit: :edit:

This PSA brought to you buy college level public speaking courses.

It really doesn't matter how the "court of public opinion" thinks. It still comes down to personal opinion, and most people prefer to be pro gun, than not. The reaoning many use isn't arrogant. Your idea is that if you move far away from crime, and don't think about it, it doesn't exist. As for me, I'm a realist who works in law enforcement, and I understand that bad things happen to good people EVERYWHERE. What you epically fail at understanding is, it's not out of fear that most purchase guns. What it is, is that while yes, people do want to exercise their rights, but they also don't need to be a victim, or move somewhere else out of fear. Also, for the record, when the riots occurred in our area, I lived in a very nice neighborhood in Santa Monica. I didn't live in "gang areas", as you so easily call them. It seems there's a lot you totally missed in all of this, but I'll just leave it as that. I do want to go back to the subject.