Gundam Show Thread - MSG thru Witch from Mercury

[seti88]

mikazuki you dawg!!!!!

[Marzan]

I didn't expect that to happen so soon if at all! This series keeps on surprising me.

[chyll2]

It looks like Mika is turning out the most liked Gundam MC ever

[calubin_175]

Caricature went down too easily.

[antibiotictab]

Gundam Thunderbolt is now on TV in Kanto District.

That pilot who is in the GM is played by Yuichi Nakamura?

He ”has got on” the 2 Gundams and 1 Valk.

Edited December 29, 2015 by antibiotictab

[Kelsain]

Watched the first episode of Thunderbolt on YouTube. Cool concept, great animation.

But... I really don't like jazz. I think that might be a sticking point, here.

[grss1982]

Gundam Thunderbolt is now on TV in Kanto District.

That pilot who is in the GM is played by Yuichi Nakamura?

He ”has got on” the 2 Gundams and 1 Valk.

So breaking tradition.....

We don't get a Gundam jack, instead we gat a DOM jack! Plus a shot to the face.

Io reminded me of Mr. Bushido from that other Gundam franchise, TBH. Wait a second that's Alto's VA also?

I see a gundam still put the fear of god on Zeon pilots. I guess Amuro in the RX-78 was turly terrifying for Zeon pilots?

By the way, a female (acting) ship captain on a UC show. This time for the Federation. Cima was for the Zeons in the other series, right?

Watched the first episode of Thunderbolt on YouTube. Cool concept, great animation.

But... I really don't like jazz. I think that might be a sticking point, here.

The jazz did not seem out of place to me, IMHO. It made the battles more thrilling for me. To each his own I guess.

Edited January 1, 2016 by grss1982

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

yeah Jazz was cool. especially in the beginning, when they had a guy playing with just sticks on the gundam surface, that was really hard stuff he was pulling off. definitely a pro drummer was doing that part.

[kajnrig]

So I checked out Thunderbolt and it still befuddles me how Gundam UC can still get so much love. Outstanding production values wasted on dreadful dialogue and flat characters and consistently terrible action direction. But that's all I'll say about that, because what I'm more interested in is IBO. I'm only three episodes in so far, but I've come to an interesting impasse. To quote from another forum I frequent:

On a general note, it's more than a little disturbing how much people seem to like the "cool emotionally-stunted child soldier" character. Like, he's actually really super messed up and damaged for a kid his age, why are you cheering that on and implicitly encouraging real kids to emulate that? Like anime uses the child soldier trope so often without ever addressing all the problems with it, both in-canon and in the meta-narrative. At least IBO acknowledges that it's a point of political discourse in-universe. You look at Naruto, where twelve-year old kids are assassinating people, and not a single person stops to say, "Hey guys, I know we were kind of forced to use kids in battle during the last war, desperate times and all, but now that there's been ten years of peace, what say we raise the academy graduation age a year or two, yeah?"

EDIT:

So one thought on the third episode, kind of refining my point above: There's a lot of glorification of the child soldier in this show, and (I've slowly come to see) in mainstream (shounen?) anime overall. Youth violence is glamourized... And judging by how positive the reaction to it is, it seems many people both in Japan and outside seem to share this sentiment. It's understandable that kids/teens will be attracted to it, but the older ones among us should be approaching this with a bit more... trepidation, no? Apprehension? I say this with the ongoing suicide epidemic in Japan in mind. Perhaps that and this culture of encouraging youth militantism have some relation...? I'm no expert on said culture, obviously, and I'm not even sure if I'm thinking about the right things in the right frames of mind, so for now it's just a thought, an untestable hypothesis. From what I understand, the rate of youth suicide in Japan is especially alarming.

But what's the opposite end of glamorization? Depicting all war kids as pitiable? That's reductionist in its own way. That's the kind of dehumanization that leads to those godawful "for just five cents a day" commercials that Hollywood actors love to take part in to feel better about themselves. Armchair activism. IBO does a nice job rejecting that from the get-go - Mikazuki and the other kids spend just as much time being stupid honest kids as they do being ruthless efficient soldiers - and it wastes no time bringing Kudelia's idealism down to Earth (or Mars, as it were).

But it still remains that the show (and its fans) doesn't cast its commentary in the other direction, either.

I dunno. Anyway. Ten more to go.

Any opinions and/or insight?

[electric indigo]

Interestingly, the violence against children, often carried out by children, annoyed my so much that I wrote a letter to a letter of complaint to a german Manga distributor. That was almost twenty years ago.

It seems to me that it's a common trope in Manga directed at a young male audience, with some artists openly living out their revenge fantasies against peers that may have expelled them in their younger days, which are well received by adolescents who feel the same during the hard times of growing up.

The characters being stuck in a situation (war) or a system (conspiracy, secret organization) that leave them no other choice is a comfortable way to take away the blame for their decisions.

It's a ongoing motive - from Akira to the Hunger Games.

[lechuck]

Well I watched Gundam Thunderbolt too and like what I have seen so far.
If I am not mistaken the episode was shorter than the regular 20 minutes, and considering that I think they did a good job with providing the gist of the story and the main characters.

The Jazz music doesn't do anything for me - it is OK and not out of place, but I think I will always prefer orchestral soundtrack.

So overall I am satisfied for the moment, only thing I am pondering is which side one is to be actually rooting for.

[dizman]

As electric indigo said its a trope that has been popular for quite a few years and I doubt it will ever go away. Its an easy way to get young viewers attached and watching your show/ reading your manga if it stars a young cast they can relate to. I'm not from Japan and have never been there, but I doubt it's anime causing the problems with suicide. That's like saying rock and roll makes people into devil worshippers or video games make kids into cold blooded killers.

Gundam has usually been on the better side of it showing how unromantic war can be and how hellish it is especially on kids. Mikazuki from IBO is interesting in that no one seems to acknowledge he has a problem, even 13 episodes in. They just say do it and he goes off to kill the enemy, its a bit unsettling and that's probably the intended goal. I still wouldn't be surprised if he snaps and just kills Kudelia or Orga out of the blue near the end of the series.

[kajnrig]

Interestingly, the violence against children, often carried out by children, annoyed my so much that I wrote a letter to a letter of complaint to a german Manga distributor. That was almost twenty years ago.

It seems to me that it's a common trope in Manga directed at a young male audience, with some artists openly living out their revenge fantasies against peers that may have expelled them in their younger days, which are well received by adolescents who feel the same during the hard times of growing up.

The characters being stuck in a situation (war) or a system (conspiracy, secret organization) that leave them no other choice is a comfortable way to take away the blame for their decisions.

It's a ongoing motive - from Akira to the Hunger Games.

That's an interesting observation. It's not directly related to the subject of children in war, but there's definitely some intersection. I suppose it's just another sign that I'm not, as you say, the young male audience these shows target. There's a dearth of anime, shounen or otherwise, that deconstruct these types of anime the way Eva did back in the 90s. Maybe the industry is due for one?

1.) I doubt it's anime causing the problems with suicide. That's like saying rock and roll makes people into devil worshippers or video games make kids into cold blooded killers.

...

2.) Mikazuki from IBO is interesting in that no one seems to acknowledge he has a problem, even 13 episodes in.

...

3.) its a bit unsettling and that's probably the intended goal.

1.) I'm not saying it's anime that's causing the epidemic of suicide, either, but I think perhaps the culture around anime (a microcosm of pop culture in general?) does play a role. Satoshi Kon, in an interview about his movie Paprika, talked about how anime is a very easy, exciting escape from the real world, even for adults: "But I think there is a danger, too. If you go into that world, it is very vivid and colorful and seductive, but there are big traps within that, particularly if you let your real world deteriorate as a result."

Do I think it's solely anime's fault, or even anime's fault at all? No, not really. But I think there may be something of an unhealthy attraction to and/or overindulgence in anime and the products of anime. Maybe. I dunno.

2.) It's understandable for the kids and other orphans and so on to not acknowledge Mikazuki's problems, because they're all kids and/or they know Mikazuki personally and/or they're involved in things just as much as he is. But Kudelia seems to have an understanding of the psychological trauma involved with being a child soldier, yet she never brings it up. Most of that is due to bad characterization on the part of the writers, but all the same, it's still a glaring plot hole.

3.) I think it's just bad writing, honestly. The writers seem to vacillate wildly between smart, politically-driven and/or character-driven scenes whenever they're NOT dealing with Mikazuki and by-the-numbers, cliche humdrum nonsense when they ARE dealing with Mikazuki.

Seriously, I think he's just the blandest bland kid to have ever blanded.

Edited January 2, 2016 by kajnrig

[areaseven]

No IBO this week. But since it's Star Wars Month...

[Marzan]

LOL, that's awesome. Atra as Chebacca really shows who this artist ships with Mikazuki

[kajnrig]

...Orga? (It'd be a better fit than the cipher that is Mikazuki.)

[kajnrig]

So I watched Thunderbolt again, trying to keep biases in check, and... It's better than before. Still not good, but better. That Zaku first-person 20-second bit was more impressive this time around. It's easier to appreciate the sheer aesthetic beauty of the whole thing.

One thing I forgot last viewing was just how scary and off-putting the character designs are. The Zeon guys fare better in this regard because they're allowed a more anime look, but the Feddie Captain Lady's face especially terrified me.

Also, what's up with Ensigns absolutely killing it in the Universal Century? I count at least Kou Uraki, Shiro Amada, and now this newest guy. (Though the former two made their debuts by being cool. Shiro wins with a Ball, and Kou goes paintballing in a Zaku. This guy just gets shot down. Boo.)

[F-ZeroOne]

Don't forget Bright Noa, who although he acts like your Dad who never hit you is actually much younger than I suspect most people think he is...

[dizman]

Also, what's up with Ensigns absolutely killing it in the Universal Century? I count at least Kou Uraki, Shiro Amada, and now this newest guy. (Though the former two made their debuts by being cool. Shiro wins with a Ball, and Kou goes paintballing in a Zaku. This guy just gets shot down. Boo.)

Then he captures a Rick Dom by himself with a pistol, making sure to taunt the other aces that shot him down. As for people being badass ensigns, its just to show that most of the experienced pilots were dead by the end of the OYW, Kou was just a test pilot in a remote after war base.

Edited January 6, 2016 by dizman

[Kelsain]

For a few episodes on IBO, it really seemed that things were going way too well for Tekkadan. Winning battles, making allies, forming a family.

The last two episodes have certainly put a stop to that. Even though all of our main cast is still alright, the confrontation with the Brewers has reiterated the core horror of this future: child slavery.

The kids of CGS/Tekkadan are not an outlier; child soldiers seem to be commonplace, risking their lives and meeting a grisly end because they can't even imagine a better life than the hell they're living.

So too is this practice seen in the engagement of McGillis to the little girl and by Kudelia's father planning her assassination for his mysterious plan.

Man, I was starting to think that this was the least tormented Gundam show yet. Nope, it's just a more pervasive element that all of the characters just accept. It's depressing, and now it definitely feels like a Gundam show.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Kelsain

[kajnrig]

It was definitely one of the high peaks of the show's writing. Unfortunately, the show has just as many valleys. It's disappointing because I WANT to like it, but the writing is too schizophrenic.

On a related note, I tried watching Unicorn again, and aside from still finding Banagher and Riddhe insufferable and completely irrelevant to the plot (well, more so the former than the latter, but Riddhe's still not very interesting), I'm enjoying it much more than before. Well, I enjoy more parts of it than I dislike parts of it, at any rate. It falls back on franchise tropes rather than take the opportunity to redefine them, but meh. It succeeds more often than it fails.

I've realized I just dislike the whole Newtype quasi-ubermensch deal altogether. Telepathy, fine. Catch-all excuse for inexplicable character motivation, I'm out. Banagher's sudden and intense attachment to Audrey/Mineva is supposedly because of his Newtype abilities making him empathize profoundly with her, but frakk that, that's just lazy writing. You can be empathetic, pacifist, etc., without being the next step of human evolution. That's actually a really condescending way to conceptualize the human race.

But yeah. Allow it to be itself, warts and all, and I find it's not too bad. Not Macross Plus levels of Nailed It!, but then not much can be.

[areaseven]

After a week off, the Hype Train is back.

[seti88]

1. the colonies look sleek and modern...nice...

2. mikazuki's becoming the iceman in relationships too..

3. would be interesting to see the motivation of kudelia's aide to do what she did

4. ...and............char lives! sort of...

[electric indigo]

Guess who gets the Kimaris.

[joppewo]

Guess who gets the Kimaris.

Kimaris manual preliminary info:

Used in the Calamity War by the first generation Sir Bauduin, a heroic MS.

This is the reason the Bauduin family is one the 7 Stars.

After the war it was used in ceremonies since it was a Gjallarhorn symbol and therefore was a famous MS.

However the 300 years made it fade out of people's memory.

It hasn't seen combat since the Calamity War

- High maneuverability due to various boosters, particularly good for space combat, has excellent stability for combat in low orbit being pulled by gravity

- Leg boosters at full boost can make it reach distant enemies in one go, by mastering them it's possible to make quick turns/acceleration.

- Gungnir: uses the high mobility of Kimaris to have severe thrusting power. It also has 120mm rifles for restraining fire.

- Combat Knife: meant for ground and sea combat.

- Slash Disk: made of rare MS frame metal, can tear even nanolaminate armor with its high speed rotation.

[areaseven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_XmJRRbS8Y

[kajnrig]

Finished my second attempt at Unicorn, actually making it to the end this time. Enjoyed it much more this time around. The entire Torrington Base episode could have been cut, as well as anything involving the main character. That seems to be my criticism of all the recent Gundams nowadays: bland, uninteresting main leads.

Literally every single other character was more interesting than Banagher Links. If what I hear about Kira Yamato is true, Banagher gives him a run for his money. Hand the Unicorn over to Audrey and THEN you'd have an interesting main lead. Or to Marida. Also,

it was obvious what her story arc would be but it would have been nice if they'd just not killed her off at the end like so. And the whole "reproductive organs removed = trauma because the only thing that gives women purpose is baby-making" shtick was duuuuuumb. Not that being castrated wouldn't traumatize me, but in this case it just has that sexist undertone to it. Like it has little bearing on the story at all, why mention it anyway.

Speaking of the Unicorn, Destroy Mode still looks like garbage. Blegh. Stormtrooper Unicorn all the way.

[areaseven]

[kajnrig]

Will probably make episode 15 my last, if the writing keeps flip-flopping the way it has been.

Topical: My thoughts on 1) Stargazer and 2) IBO 14.

Speaking of Seed, and also because there's not enough to say to warrant a new thread,

I recently watched Stargazer because I wanted to know where that sweet Stargazer Gundam came from. It was a bit hard to follow - I understand it's a truncated adaptation of a SEED/Destiny... novel series? manga? Or is it the other way around? - but it definitely held my attention from beginning to end.

(The context was fairly vague, but there was enough to suss out the sense of urgency. I'm sure if I saw SEED I'd get a better understanding of what's going on. I'm assuming the Coordinator/Natural thing is another alien/terrestrial division, from how people say SEED is MSG reinvented.)

Two of the best-written characters in Gundam that I've come across recently, in Selene and Edmund. Their dialogue, both with each other and with other characters, feeds into their action and vice versa. Selene's probably my favorite Gundam main ever, AND she's a woman AND a scientist to boot. Sol and Sven are your run-of-the-mill shonen protagonists, but their character arcs are elevated because they have to interact with her. Selene is so cool. And Edmund is only there for one episode but he's... he's a character done right.

I'm not a big fan of Seed/Destiny mecha designs, and the Strike Noir/Blu Duel/that other one still didn't strike my fancy, but oh, the Stargazer makes up for all of them and more. It being a science research vessel, and its equipment centered around exploration, makes it a better beast of possibility than the Unicorn could ever hope to be. It redoes that stupid psychoframe nonsense in such simpler, elegant ways. It just makes for such a good symbol of all the greatest aspirations of mankind.

(Also what's up with the Voltron lions? Also also what an Eva way to go, getting "eaten" by them like that. Ick.)

...phew. Man, I just really liked Stargazer. It was great.

Back to IBO.

Booooooo. This is the most forced romance ever boooooooo. Get started on the Orga/Merribit love story if you absolutely must have one, they've got way more chemistry, but Mika and Kudelia are boooooooo. And for crying out loud, writers, SHE'S A FLUBBING POLITICIAN WHO'S PLAYED A KEY ROLE IN INTERPLANETARY POLITICS!!!!!! Stop trying to shoehorn her into all the Love Interest cliches and let her be her own character! Surely she can tackle some more pressing concerns in addition to SHOPPING BECAUSE GIRLS AMIRITE.

Hell, have Biscuit run into trouble getting a hold of his brother and she negotiates a meeting. It's not much, but it's SOMETHING for her to do besides preparing for the moment she has to pray in a secluded hallway for the safety of her beloved Non-Character so that he, on the cusp of defeat, can hear her voice and find the strength to push onward to victory.

grumble grumble grumble

seriously merribit just seduce orga already

...also suspicious Fumitan being suspicious was not unexpected. What was unexpected was the assassination order. Dang girl. Ready to kill/engineer the death of your surrogate little sister/daughter, eh?

Edited January 17, 2016 by kajnrig

[kajnrig]

Finished watching Episode 15. Less Mikazuki equals less flip-flopping writers equals a better episode. Still waiting on Kudelia to inject some Audrey Burne political savvy into her veins, though. You know. That thing she had before the show even started. That's my one make-it-or-break-it for Episode 16. Either they need to finally do something with her or kill her off.

Some similar thoughts from my Gundam Eclipse post:

Okay, so I told myself I was gonna skip out on the rest of the series if this episode didn't get better, and...

It's better. Ish.

And once again, shoving Mikazuki to the background is the smartest move they could have made. The first few scenes where he and Kudelia and Fumitan are shopping are still as tedious as ever - the excessive introspection serves no purpose other than to fill 25 minutes of runtime when you can only use 5 minutes of plot - but once he's out of the picture, it's like the script turns on a switch. Biscuit's story bit was nice, Atra got some much-needed (if a bit heavy) characterization via trial by fire, and in contrast you start to see just how desperate Gjallarhorn are becoming.

I'm still waiting for Kudelia to shift gears, too. Less innocent waif and more politically-savvy activist, please. Inject some of that Audrey Burne into your veins, missy. My one make-it-or-break-it for Episode 16.

[Marzan]

Finished watching Episode 15. Less Mikazuki equals less flip-flopping writers equals a better episode. Still waiting on Kudelia to inject some Audrey Burne political savvy into her veins, though. You know. That thing she had before the show even started. That's my one make-it-or-break-it for Episode 16. Either they need to finally do something with her or kill her off.

Some similar thoughts from my Gundam Eclipse post:

Okay, so I told myself I was gonna skip out on the rest of the series if this episode didn't get better, and...

It's better. Ish.

And once again, shoving Mikazuki to the background is the smartest move they could have made. The first few scenes where he and Kudelia and Fumitan are shopping are still as tedious as ever - the excessive introspection serves no purpose other than to fill 25 minutes of runtime when you can only use 5 minutes of plot - but once he's out of the picture, it's like the script turns on a switch. Biscuit's story bit was nice, Atra got some much-needed (if a bit heavy) characterization via trial by fire, and in contrast you start to see just how desperate Gjallarhorn are becoming.

I'm still waiting for Kudelia to shift gears, too. Less innocent waif and more politically-savvy activist, please. Inject some of that Audrey Burne into your veins, missy. My one make-it-or-break-it for Episode 16.

I think you're really harsh on this show. If you think this has bad writing, then 95% of modern anime is doomed.

[kajnrig]

I think you're really harsh on this show. If you think this has bad writing, then 95% of modern anime is doomed.

You may be right. But I do think this show has bits and pieces of good writing, it just relies too much on bland, by-the-numbers anime conventions (and even then, it doesn't use them to good effect so much as to fill time). I won't bore you by writing too many more walls of text than I already have, but I think the majority of my criticisms can be summarized by "It's inconsistent."

When you're with the side characters, the writing and the story is generally really good, fun, interesting stuff. Like Biscuit and his brother, or Atra as a whole (though it does get a bit heavyhanded at times, no pun intended), or Orga and especially his relationship with Merribit. If the writers wanted to do a romance subplot, those two would have been prime material. But what's really great is that they don't have to, either. Their contentious, mutually (and begrudgingly, for one) respectful relationship is ripe with possibility, and the power dynamic is all weird and not totally tipped in favor of either party the way it is with Mika/Kudelia. I can easily see them playing out any number of ways: becoming good friends and allies, she becomes his and Tekkadan's surrogate mother figure, they become involved romantically, she (or he) chooses Teiwaz over Tekkadan, etc. Tekkadan are strong, Teiwaz and the crew of that... other... ship (I forget its name) are strong, even creepo-guy McGillis is a strong character because it's clear he's very politically savvy, and his intentions and actions can always be multi-layered. Why is he courting this nine-year old girl? Maybe he really is just a pedophile. Maybe he's playing her for political gain. Maybe he actually does legit like her. Maybe--and so on and so forth.

When you're with Mika and Kudelia, which is unfortunately most of the time because they're the leads, the writing tanks. You can never (or at least I can never) get a real feel for who those two are, because the writers themselves don't seem to know who they are. Kudelia starts out as a gifted and accomplished politician, but then she becomes... an insecure housewife? And then an insecure love interest? Meanwhile, Mika remains as apathetic as ever and yet everyone wants to please him or get his approval. He's not particularly introspective and talkative yet will, unprompted, discuss his feelings.

So... yeah. It's inconsistent.

[areaseven]

Gundam Cosplay: MS Girl Gundam Barbatos

[kajnrig]

I'm glad she decided to compromise in the belly area. That would have looked quite awkward.

[Tochiro]

More Gundam Thunderbolt coming soon!

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-01-22/gundam-thunderbolt-anime-2nd-episode-preview-streamed/.97848