Anybody Thinks That Sk Needs To Redesign The Vf-1?

[Mr March]

Uh, weren't these questions already asked and answered, by my posts and those made by others in the previous pages? I'm starting to get suspicious...

[JB0]

So yeah... how about that VF-17? Is that anachronistic or what?

[ghostryder]

So yeah... how about that VF-17? Is that anachronistic or what?

376011[/snapback]

Yeah, faceted stealth is, like, sooooo Desert Storm.

[honneamise]

I´m not going to post any more here until this thread is streamlined and redesigned. Honestly, it is getting more and more repetitive now...

I will spend my time building models of obsolete designs from 2009, that´s more fun!

[Sdf-1]

Yeah, but Honneamise, do you think Vf-1 should be redesigned? Sorry...

[AlphaHX]

Because Alpha X this is something that I personally as well as a very small number of individuals who agree with me would want. Just think of it as a win-win situation for me and those who insist that the VF-1 remain the same. However, it made me wish that SK could have done a redesign of his VF-1 under his own will instead of making me feel more inclined to force him to do so. But under this circumstance, I don't feel that something has to be redesigned unless it's necessary. Also Alpha X when you say that why should SK redesign something that wouldn't affect the series, I would say maybe just for the hell and beauty of it. A perfect example I could think of would be agin with Hajime Katoki's Wing Gundam Kai design. I assume that he decided to redesign the original wing gundam simply because he probably felt that he could make it look better. That's the same way I feel about the VF-1 where I feel that I could make it look better as well. However I also realized that he shouldn't redesign his VF-1 unless it was for a legitamate reason and intentional purpose.

BTW Sdf-1 I'm actually 18 years old

375985[/snapback]

Umm... I sorta get it I guess. I'm not a big Gundam guy but did Hajime Katoki redesign Wing Gundam for a new series, ova or movie?... or was it some random replacement where one day he just stated that he created a new design for the Wing Gundam?

I guess what most people are saying is that SK probably did want to redesign the VF-1 and thats why VF-0 was made. Since technically it looks pretty similar and transforms the same way. Would you have been happier if in Macross Zero, they called the VF-0, VF-1 and claim that it was a redesign?

Also I said nothing of affecting the series. I just dont see the effect... period. Basically, all I was saying if theyre gonna redesign the VF-1, they should use it in something... you know, like in a new series, ova, manga, movie, etc.

Oh, and btw, its AlphaHX.

Edited March 3, 2006 by AlphaHX

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Phalanx, if it helps, the vf1 WAS redesigned for DYRL. There are differences in the hands (more robotic looking) and other things. Yeah they are seperate VF1s in the timeline (tv series has modular transformation through levers marked "G" "B" "F" unlike the DYRL movie version) but it is still called 'vf1'.

They also made changes to the Qeadlunn Rau powered armor which the female zentradi aces use in the movie: inside the cockpit looks more alien. The tv series has more markings and stuff on the outside. (this is the one I like)

If you mean they should make very 'slight' changes like that, then I see what you are saying, but if it is like a radical change to the basic frame I say "no way". (my reasons earlier were that straying too much from the classic design means it will affect other valks like vf4)

What I would accept is if SK decided one day that macross needed to be retold to a new generation the way Gundam Seed was a retelling of UC MSG but with a big budget to back it all. Then I can accept a redoing of all the designs and a more futuristic version for new kids. (may spark a resurgence in interest for macross and a new toyline..yum)

It's interesting though that we can all easily accept the radical change of Exedol (tentacles) and Bodolza (brain in a jar) but we are really scared to see the vf1 have such masive change.

In the end though I think the adult fans would sorta miss the old due to nostalgia reasons. Like how with the new BSG tv series they initially did not like the upgraded look of the cylons and preffered the cheesy robotic cylon version of old, over the new humanoid cylon versions.

Edited March 3, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

Umm... I sorta get it I guess. I'm not a big Gundam guy but did Hajime Katoki redesign Wing Gundam for a new series, ova or movie?... or was it some random replacement where one day he just stated that he created a new design for the Wing Gundam?

The Katoki redesign of the Wing Gundam was for the OVA. A lot of the other Katoki redesigns ahve been for the sake of releasing "version Ka." model kits.

[Phalanx]

Well, Graham you could say that but either way I don't care who redesigns the VF-1. Like Isaid before, I don't mind if the VF-1 wasn't redesigned unless it was for any special intentional purpose like a for a follow up sequel series and here's a good example: HK redesigned the Gundam Wing pilot's gundam's according to the story of G Wing Endless Waltz since it takes place one year after the anime series story. You guys catch my drift with this? It's sort of hard to explain but I'm hoping that you guys will eventually understand.

BTW 1/1 LowViz Lurker your point about the VF-1 beind redesigned for DYRL is aperfect example of what I stated above. Also, 1/1 LowViz Lurker thanx for showing some understanding and I'm aware of the fact that you are not agreeing with me on my issue

[azrael]

So when you say redesign, you would like to see small features be redesigned....like the cockpit layout and the hands on the VF-1 in DYRL?. You want the VF-1 to be given some extra/updated detailing?

[Phalanx]

Yep azrael that's pretty much what I want as long as it's not official since the original fans of the VF-1 might take offense at that. BTW just the outside design slightly to moderately, but not too overdesigned where someone can notice the radical change.

[azrael]

Yep azrael that's pretty much what I want as long as it's not official since the original fans of the VF-1 might take offense at that. BTW just the outside design slightly to moderately, but not too overdesigned where someone can notice the radical change.

376160[/snapback]

Then that borders on variation/updating. With the redesign of the VF-1 in DYRL?, that redesign was classified as a block upgrade, which is noted in the Compendium. The VT-1, which also made it's appearence is a redesign of the VF-1 and it's later updated version, the VT-1C (MD7) is also a redesign of the VF-1. There's also the VEER-1, the VE-1... So it looks like you want more variations of the VF-1, not a redesign.

[Phalanx]

Well azrael sort of. but there's a distinct difference between a variant and a redesign. A variant has a differnt purpose, whereas a redesign is just a updated remake of something. When you say that the VE-1 is a redesign of the VF-1 it's actually a variant since this one is optimzed for reconaissance and electronic warfare. Same exact design as the original VF-1 but with differnt distinct purpose. A redesign would involve improving the design of the airframe, but you have agood idea of where I'm going with this

[JKeats]

I hate this thread so much.

Edit: I took out the emoticon. I'm that serious about hating this thread.

Edited March 3, 2006 by JKeats

[Nightbat]

This thread is about redesigning a classic design just because 20+ years

later they made a prequal that used 'sleeker' designs

God I hate Star Wars!

[Penguin]

This thread is about redesigning a classic design just because 20+ years

later they made a prequal that used 'sleeker' designs

God I hate Star Wars!

376238[/snapback]

Amen... well except about the Star Wars. I just can't stay mad at it...

I get a kick out of how many people equate "sleek" with "new" or "futuristic", when one's got nothing to do with another. IMHO, the "sleekest" fighter ever was the F-104, but I sure wouldn't want to take on an F-15 in one.

[JB0]

Well, Graham you could say that but either way I don't care who redesigns the VF-1. Like Isaid before, I don't mind if the VF-1 wasn't redesigned unless it was for any special intentional purpose like a for a follow up sequel series and here's a good example: HK redesigned the Gundam Wing pilot's gundam's according to the story of G Wing Endless Waltz since it takes place one year after the anime series story. You guys catch my drift with this? It's sort of hard to explain but I'm hoping that you guys will eventually understand.

There's actually TWO Katoki redesigns in the Gundam Wing line.

First, and primarily, there's the "custom" versions that were, in continuity, alterations of the ones they ended the series with(Wing Zero Custom, Deathscythe Hell Custom, etc).

But Endless Waltz ALSO featured a few flashback sequences to before the start of the TV series. These showed the original Deathscythe, Wing Gundam, Sandrock, Heavyarms, and Shenlong. Katoki redesigned the original mechs for those scenes to match his vision of the Wing universe.

In continuity, those were the same mechs as the TV series, despite (in some cases massively) diffrent appearance. A few of the Ka. versions also feature equipment that shouldn't be present at that point in the continuity.

Out of continuity, of course, both versions were merely Katoki expressing his distaste for TV series designer Kunio Okawara's aesthetics.

The Ka. designs outside of Wing are little more than Bandai looking for excuses to sell the same model over again. Seriously, a Ka. Ball? It's a METAL SPHERE.

[Sundown]

Yep azrael that's pretty much what I want as long as it's not official since the original fans of the VF-1 might take offense at that. BTW just the outside design slightly to moderately, but not too overdesigned where someone can notice the radical change.

376160[/snapback]

Wouldn't. This. Be. The. VF-0?

*head explodes*

Or even the VF-2 for that matter.

Just think of either as a redesigned, improved, updated VF-1. Because that's exactly what they *are*.

For what it's worth, the VF-0 as I understand it, isn't exactly a VF-1 predecessor or prototype. It seems to be concurrently designed with the VF-1, maybe even started a bit after (not sure about this) as a testbed prototype for new technologies. And in continuity, the VF-0 was operational in limited numbers even before the VF-1 was mass produced.

Again, what confuses me is why in a redesign, you require it to be named after a design that you don't like in the first place. Especially when something close to what you want already exists in the form of the VF-0 and 2. Unless you're talking about a redesign that's altogether new, something like a VF-1, but without some of the more extreme changes made in the VF-0. I wouldn't mind seeing that either.

But it's not going to be a VF-1. Maybe a VF-1 Prime, or a Kawamori sanctioned VF-2, but not a VF-1.

[JB0]

But it's not going to be a VF-1.  Maybe a VF-1 Prime, or a Kawamori sanctioned VF-2,  but not a VF-1.

376305[/snapback]

Or even ... MG VF-1 Version Katoki.

[Sundown]

But it's not going to be a VF-1.  Maybe a VF-1 Prime, or a Kawamori sanctioned VF-2,  but not a VF-1.

376305[/snapback]

Or even ... MG VF-1 Version Katoki.

376315[/snapback]

*Stabs you.*

Gundam Wing didn't have to take it so literally.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

It seems to be concurrently designed with the VF-1, maybe even started a bit after (not sure about this) as a testbed prototype for new technologies.

That's how I like to think of it. Like you know how in the gundam universe how the Gundam has experimental materials that are way too expensive for the cannon fodder GM so they are limited in number? (the lunar titanium only goes to the hero at first but the GM pilots must make do with standard stuff) ...but then later as time goes on and knowledge improves, they phase out the GM and put the good stuff (things that tested in the gundam which proved to boost performance) that was in the early gundam into the new line of mass production robots? Ie explains the DYRL style cockpit. VF0 was just 'ahead of its time'.

VF0 = a gundam which had to be rushed out. (possibly a Gundam MK II without the expensive armor but with advances in other areas for experimental purpose)

VF1 = a GM (doesn't look as classy as 0, but has it where it count on the inside due to more time)

VF1-S = GM command version. (in gundam the command version looks the same on the outside for the most part, but is a better performing version than the others)

Custom color (painted in showy bright colors, like the Red Zaku) = ace pilots who just modify poo to thier liking to look cool or to get a small increase in performance. eg. in gundam how they might sacrifice more armor for extra speed by shedding some weight, assuming they are too good to even get hit by the crappy canon fodders of thier world, and would much rather use that speed to "do more work/kill more things" quickly. (they can afford to take risks that others without the skills would be too scared to take)

...then later as more money is available for upgrade..

the vf1 in DYRL (as STANDARD for all):

-the super upgrade for ALL pilots (increase performance in space)

-DYRL cockpit (like what the VF0 had)

-no more 'b' 'g' 'f' levers to transform (tv series valks get upgraded as knowledge improves and more money to throw around)

Edited March 4, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[JB0]

But it's not going to be a VF-1.  Maybe a VF-1 Prime, or a Kawamori sanctioned VF-2,  but not a VF-1.

376305[/snapback]

Or even ... MG VF-1 Version Katoki.

376315[/snapback]

*Stabs you.*

Aww, c'mon.... Ver. Ka. is the ESSENCE of superfluous redesigns.

Gundam Wing didn't have to take it so literally.

Actually, when looked at from the right angle, most of the "main" Gundams are redesigns of the original RX-78. They all have the same basic design, same color scheme, etc. In continuity they're massively diffrent, but out of continuity it's all explicitly intended to be a rehash of the original Gundam.

[macplus]

You guys should quit thinking Yamato toys are the big thing, the VF-1 was actually redesigned for the hasegawa models, subtle changes indeed but quite effective, go and take a look at Hasegawa's models, SK worked on an up to date vf-1 with this guys, the changes are subtle but the result makes the old vf-1 look like anything we have today, agreed that we needed a CG vf-1 in macross zero (poor macross sequel IMHO) to make it look modern, but for the moment take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. A few pages back somebody said that Macross should not become what gundam has become in that there's a sequel every year and blah blah, well, I would love to have more macross sequels, not one of questionable quality every 10 years, it may sound heretic but IMHO SK has lost a lot of what he had during the days of Macross, DYRL and M+, somebody else should do the writting and directing of new macross shows. Later folks

Edited March 4, 2006 by macplus

[JB0]

...  but take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. 

Which is almost all lifted straight from DYRL.

[AlphaHX]

The changes from the TV series to DYRL/Hasegawa are pretty drastic.

[reddsun1]

Oh now I see what your saying but that makes me ask another confusing and controversial question which would be why would SK make a protoype design with a nice look to it and then make a mainstream model of it that looks kind of crappy?

VF-1 crappy?! BLASPHEMY!!

If anything, it could arguably be said that SK has redesigned the VF-1 already, and I'd site the VF-5000 as the example. It seems to bear the most "evolutionary" similarities and design cues like the VF-1.

It's funny, but others mention how one of the VF-1's major "improvements" over the VF-0 storywise is it's being smaller [through reverse engineering/overtechnology]. It seems almost too small to me now, as presented in its various media [toys/models/etc]. I always got the impression that it was pretty big when I was younger, watching Robotech as a kid. Then again when you're a kid, everything's huge, I guess.

Edited March 4, 2006 by reddsun1

[Neova]

Summary:

We have an 18 year guy who grew up in the 90s, with the advances of CGI in movies and video games, asking for an update to an almost 25 year old TV series, which did not have such production advances back then, so he can "see and believe" in the continuity and evolution of the Valkyrie from its prequal (Macross Zero) to the present or future (Macross Plus and beyond).

I see his point if I was his age but unless Big West or Kawamorie "updates" Macross SDF-1 to at least VFX CGI standards, it would always look old because the technology that made the TV series is old.

Had Kawamorie had access to better techology THEN, the VF-1 may actually look a lot different. Maybe Big West should sell the Macross franchise to Sunrise / Bandai and we have the "refresh" version of M:SDF1 and M:DYRL for TODAY's audience.

I found this thread amusing at first, then plain tiresome at the end.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Hehe I actually liked the SDF1 over the SDF in macross 7.

Also you know in star wars prequel trilogy when they show the emperor's face? I think the makeup of the OT was actually better than the fx of today. (maybe skills have gotten worse?)

Althought I do agree yoda as a cg puppet is ten times better than a real puppet now that we've seen him fight.

Edited March 4, 2006 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[macplus]

Hehe I actually liked the SDF1 over the SDF in macross 7.

The macross 7 "macross class" ships are the lamest, most retarded and embarrasing humilliation to the original macross..... just look at those hands... what a POS

[macplus]

...  but take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. 

Which is almost all lifted straight from DYRL.

376339[/snapback]

In what way??, the animation for the game was made years later and it's even made in computer IIRC

[Pervataru]

Utterly off topic but a view on techology, Digital is the best and worse thing to happen to media todate. think about it digital saves alot of time and allows for seemless graphic affects, but how many times has an artist pitch away a concet drawing the later gone back and used it as is or updated a little, with didgital if deleted and saved over, you need the FBI or wonder nerd techy to get it back. And this goes for photography. They both have there place, and the new would not be where it is today with out the hand drawn work of those that came before. I'll get off my soap box now.

[JB0]

...  but take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. 

Which is almost all lifted straight from DYRL.

376339[/snapback]

In what way??, the animation for the game was made years later and it's even made in computer IIRC

376490[/snapback]

SOME of the Saturn game animation was made years later. MOST of it was clipped from DYRL, digitized, and pasted in.

[macplus]

...  but take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. 

Which is almost all lifted straight from DYRL.

376339[/snapback]

In what way??, the animation for the game was made years later and it's even made in computer IIRC

376490[/snapback]

SOME of the Saturn game animation was made years later. MOST of it was clipped from DYRL, digitized, and pasted in.

376578[/snapback]

WOW!! I want to see a version of DYRL? with all that animation! Request new DYRL? directors cut!

[JB0]

...  but take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. 

Which is almost all lifted straight from DYRL.

376339[/snapback]

In what way??, the animation for the game was made years later and it's even made in computer IIRC

376490[/snapback]

SOME of the Saturn game animation was made years later. MOST of it was clipped from DYRL, digitized, and pasted in.

376578[/snapback]

WOW!! I want to see a version of DYRL? with all that animation! Request new DYRL? directors cut!

376609[/snapback]

Would actually be a good idea. The movie could do with the game lead-in. As-is, it's a somewhat disorienting beginning, especially if you haven't seen the TV series.

...

We ARE both talking about the DYRL sidescroller, right? I didn't miss a game anywhere?

[macplus]

...  but take a look at the animation in the Saturn game. 

Which is almost all lifted straight from DYRL.

376339[/snapback]

In what way??, the animation for the game was made years later and it's even made in computer IIRC

376490[/snapback]

SOME of the Saturn game animation was made years later. MOST of it was clipped from DYRL, digitized, and pasted in.

376578[/snapback]

WOW!! I want to see a version of DYRL? with all that animation! Request new DYRL? directors cut!

376609[/snapback]

Would actually be a good idea. The movie could do with the game lead-in. As-is, it's a somewhat disorienting beginning, especially if you haven't seen the TV series.

...

We ARE both talking about the DYRL sidescroller, right? I didn't miss a game anywhere?

376621[/snapback]

that's the one! I still remember the first time I saw that animation... I almost bought the game only for that small clip