Yahoo! Japan News Article on Macross

[Duke Togo]

You aren't getting it, JV... Studio Nue owns the story, characters, designs, etc... meaning they can do with them what they want, EXCLUSIVELY. Tastunoko only owns the the original series footage. They can't develope derivatives based upon it, because they do not own the story, characters, or the design rights.

Tatsunoko could never have sold the rights to these designs to Harmony Gold, becuase they never had them to begin with. Based upon the ruling, if Hamrony Gold were to go ahead and develop any properties containing any designs or characters from the original Macross, they would be breaking the law. I'm sure there is some "fair use" in there somewhere, but you can count out seeing the characters from SDF Macross as you know them in say, a Sentinels setting.

[Roy Focker]

JV: I think people might be refering to this,

In another suit the copyright to the character and mechanical designs was awarded to Studio Nue, splitting the copyright to the show from the rights to the designs that were returned (to Studio Nue).

Splitting the designs from the show I would guess gives Studio Nue the rights to exploit them (derivatives). Since Tatsunoko got the animation I assume they can exploit the animation (derivatives). I'm guessing that both companies can exploit what they got to make what ever derivatives they want.

[BlueMax]

Now i'm very.... well...... disheartened by the fact that because of this seemingly impossible to solve the rights dispute, macross will NEVER make it as the most remembered anime of all time as it deserves......

[Jemstone]

JV: I think people might be refering to this,

In another suit the copyright to the character and mechanical designs was awarded to Studio Nue, splitting the copyright to the show from the rights to the designs that were returned (to Studio Nue).

Splitting the designs from the show I would guess gives Studio Nue the rights to exploit them (derivatives). Since Tatsunoko got the animation I assume they can exploit the animation (derivatives). I'm guessing that both companies can exploit what they got to make what ever derivatives they want.

Hmm.. I can't believe I missed this thread earlier.

Roy, I don't think Tatsunoko can exploit what it has derivative wise but definately merchandise wise. It wouldn't make sense for both companies to have rights to any derivatives when one company has been awarded exclusive design and character rights.

[treatment]

So does this ruling really mean and affirms that Yamato toys (excluding the 1J) can be retailed here locally now without anymore undue interference from HG?

I like to see a toy/anime shop again displaying both and not being harassed by HG.

HG can retail their Robotech Macross-TV toys and Yamato can retail DYRL/Plus/M7/M0 toys.

And all will be good.

---

what's up with this thread's borked sizing? No wordwraps.

Edited October 2, 2003 by treatment

[Uxi]

I can live with that. Most importantly, it means HG can't go around trying to claim rights to anything after the TV series (which is what we want).

Hopefully Big West will take this to head with HG, bitch slap them down, and maybe, just maybe, we'll see a 2-3 episode volume release of Macross Zero by the time the 5th episode comes out in Japan.

Sounds good. Except I don't want a 2-3 ep release. Just release the whole OVA in one pack and we can call it a day.

[Skull Leader]

Amen to that.

Unfortunately, it looks like that's going to take someone putting their foot down and telling HG where their place is.... strangely enough, not even the mighty Bandai gods are ready to step into this (I SO wish they would...)

[tom64ss]

So does this mean that HG only has the rights to the animated footage? What about the audio track that they didn't use?

Hypothetically speaking, would it be legal for BW to take the original audio track and put new animation to it? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm just asking this to understand exactly what HG has a claim on.

[lebhead]

it sounds to me that nothing has changed and we're still unclear of the verdict so any further speculation can only lead to misconceptions and trouble, which will lead to arguments, which will lead to fear, which will lead to the dark side.

so again, we wait and continue on...

[Pat Payne]

Theoretically, maybe. That depends on how you define "original footage." Does that mean only the animation itself, or does it mean the soundtracks (minus the music, which has never been under dispute) as well? If it means just the animation, than BW can do just that. Call it the "George Lucas Edition" or something . (We are, though, reckoning without the wishes of the Hoary Froating Head, who might have to give an OK to it)

If not, then nobody could, since TP would have to do it, and they don't have control of the original designs necessary to make new animation artwork that's recognizably Macross.

[Abombz!!]

strangely enough, not even the mighty Bandai gods are ready to step into this (I SO wish they would...)

Its not strange at all. Bandai simply doesn't want to step in a fight that is not theirs, wasting money on what could be otherwise used on a new show.

[tom64ss]

If HG came away from this legal battle only to own the "animation" for SDF Macross, then they got the shaft.

Think about it. What do the fans like? The storyline, the mecha design, and for some people, the soundtrack. The actual "animation" was shotty at best (as compared to later Macross animation, even DYRL).

So theoretically, after Mac0, BW could say "screw the original footage", let them have it, take the audio track, and draw up a "new" animated series episode for episode, that's up to par with DYRL or Mac+ animation, rename it "Macross 1" or something of the sort, and show it as a "new" series that they can feel free to distribute wherever the heck they want. IIRC, the hory froating head himself always said that the Space War 1 storyline for SDF Macross was "canon",but the animation itself was not entirely (the line art holds that title). Then they could redefine the original SDF Macross series as a "cartoon or TV show" within the Macross universe that tell the story of the first Space War, (Much like how DYRL is a "movie", within the Macros universe). I'm not saying it's an idea that wouldn't recieve a lot of criticism from Macross and RT fans alike, or that it's something that they'd even consider, but it would certainly f*** over HG as far as anything they can claim and the thought of that makes me happy. It's just a thought though.

[Abombz!!]

If HG came away from this legal battle only to own the "animation" for SDF Macross, then they got the shaft.

Think about it. What do the fans like? The storyline, the mecha design, and for some people, the soundtrack. The actual "animation" was shotty at best (as compared to later Macross animation, even DYRL).

So theoretically, after Mac0, BW could say "screw the original footage", let them have it, take the audio track, and draw up a "new" animated series episode for episode, that's up to par with DYRL or Mac+ animation, rename it "Macross 1" or something of the sort, and show it as a "new" series that they can feel free to distribute wherever the heck they want. IIRC, the hory froating head himself always said that the Space War 1 storyline for SDF Macross was "canon",but the animation itself was not entirely (the line art holds that title). Then they could redefine the original SDF Macross series as a "cartoon or TV show" within the Macross universe that tell the story of the first Space War, (Much like how DYRL is a "movie", within the Macros universe). I'm not saying it's an idea that wouldn't recieve a lot of criticism from Macross and RT fans alike, or that it's something that they'd even consider, but it would certainly f*** over HG as far as anything they can claim and the thought of that makes me happy. It's just a thought though.

By then.... HG would've gone into hibernation once again.

[ewilen]

This thread is beginning to duplicate the pinned HG licensing thread over in the "other anime" forum.

[tom64ss]

This thread is beginning to duplicate the pinned HG licensing thread over in the "other anime" forum.

Good point. Maybe the mods can "mash" them together like they did with some other threads.

It's pretty cool when they do.

[Aegis!]

Let me get this straight :

- Studio Nue owns the rights to every single design featured Macross. Right ?

So...if HG only recieved their rights from Tatsunoko (i.e. HG hasn't got any more rights than what Tatsunoko has today ) which now is said to have rights solely to the animation part of SDF Macross...

Could this mean that the Destroid Monster Featured in M+ , Millia's VF-1 from M7 , or for that matter the UN symbol itself which appears in all Macross series (included M0) would not be legal property of HG for them to claim that BW is unable to distribute Macross sequels or prequels internationally (I'm not sure if HG (Tatsunoko) has international rights to the animation or just for the US ) ??? !

And since the VF-X1 Plus featured in PSOne game VF-X2 is based in DYRL , would this mean that they could eventually release it outside Japan , as well as M+:GE !?

I'm not at all exited about this but if it's clear that Studio Nue owns the designs and concepts of Macross then it means that HG cannot possibly claim to have more than what their recieved from Tatsunoko which only has the rights to the animetion alone

[Pat Payne]

Let me get this straight :

- Studio Nue owns the rights to every single design featured Macross. Right ?

Not quite. Studio Nue owns partial rights to Macross as the studio which did the grunt work of creating the show, and which hired the original creator, character designer (briefly), mecha designers and writers. However most of the intellectual property rights are held jointly by BW (who ultimately paid all the bills jointly woith Tatsunoko) and Studio Nue.

So...if HG only recieved their rights from Tatsunoko (i.e. HG hasn't got any more rights than what Tatsunoko has today ) which now is said to have rights solely to the animation part of SDF Macross...

Could this mean that the Destroid Monster Featured in M+ , Millia's VF-1 from M7 , or for that matter the UN symbol itself which appears in all Macross series (included M0) would not be legal property of HG for them to claim that BW is unable to distribute Macross sequels or prequels internationally (I'm not sure if HG (Tatsunoko) has international rights to the animation or just for the US ) ??? !

That would be the gist of the argument. The underlying designs reside with Studio Nue/Big West. There is wiggle room for Tat and HG to argue for merchandising rights ONLY to designs that actually appeared in SDFM TV. DYRL, M+, M7, M0 designs may be substantially different enough to be considered new designs, but if it appeared in any of the other programs IN THE EXACT FORM THAT IT APPEARED IN THE ORIGINAL TV SERIES they could raise a stink, although it would probably get them nowhere.

Edited October 2, 2003 by Pat Payne

[CAG]

What this all seems to come down to is that now someone has to have the balls to try and market some Macross merchandise so this battle can be fought in US Court, and we can finally get our hands on what we've missed out on.

[Keith]

Considering Macross Zero is a big budget brand new OVA, there's no chance in hell we'd get it all in a bundle. A 2-3 episode release if we're lucky, otherwise it would be a 5 volume release. They have to recoup licensing costs afterall.

And yes, this does indeed mean HG can't touch jack past the original TV series. They own none of the designs (including the U.N. Spacy insignia), have no claim to any of the other show's/movies, and can't touch any future Toy releases, irregardless of whether they're based on the original series or not.

This is most likely the reason that Tokyopop had to drop their M7 Trash announcement. I have a strong feeling they licensed it through HG & the French company that was releasing it, thinking they could do a backended deal.

All we need now is for Bandai to stand up straight & tall, and release Macross Zero!!!

[Aegis!]

Considering Macross Zero is a big budget brand new OVA, there's no chance in hell we'd get it all in a bundle. A 2-3 episode release if we're lucky, otherwise it would be a 5 volume release. They have to recoup licensing costs afterall.

And yes, this does indeed mean HG can't touch jack past the original TV series. They own none of the designs (including the U.N. Spacy insignia), have no claim to any of the other show's/movies, and can't touch any future Toy releases, irregardless of whether they're based on the original series or not.

This is most likely the reason that Tokyopop had to drop their M7 Trash announcement. I have a strong feeling they licensed it through HG & the French company that was releasing it, thinking they could do a backended deal.

All we need now is for Bandai to stand up straight & tall, and release Macross Zero!!!

AMEN BROTHER , AMEN

PS: I doubt that the new PS2 game will be released outside Japan thought

but then again , we could finally see M+:GE if this goes well

[ewilen]

The underlying designs reside with Studio Nue/Big West. There is wiggle room for Tat and HG to argue for merchandising rights ONLY to designs that actually appeared in SDFM TV. DYRL, M+, M7, M0 designs may be substantially different enough to be considered new designs, but if it appeared in any of the other programs IN THE EXACT FORM THAT IT APPEARED IN THE ORIGINAL TV SERIES they could raise a stink, although it would probably get them nowhere.

I will post a comment on this over in the licensing debate thread.

[Keith]

Considering Macross Zero is a big budget brand new OVA, there's no chance in hell we'd get it all in a bundle. A 2-3 episode release if we're lucky, otherwise it would be a 5 volume release. They have to recoup licensing costs afterall.

And yes, this does indeed mean HG can't touch jack past the original TV series. They own none of the designs (including the U.N. Spacy insignia), have no claim to any of the other show's/movies, and can't touch any future Toy releases, irregardless of whether they're based on the original series or not.

This is most likely the reason that Tokyopop had to drop their M7 Trash announcement. I have a strong feeling they licensed it through HG & the French company that was releasing it, thinking they could do a backended deal.

All we need now is for Bandai to stand up straight & tall, and release Macross Zero!!!

AMEN BROTHER , AMEN

PS: I doubt that the new PS2 game will be released outside Japan thought

but then again , we could finally see M+:GE if this goes well

I dissagree. Since the new game is DYRL based, & a PS2 game at that, we're far more likely to see it than an older PS1 Game.

[LePoseur]

Just one thing too to clear up any misconceptions, by owning the rights to the TV Tatsunoko owns it all, that means video and sound, exploitation rights, and so on, the whole shabang.

There would never be any case of they own the video and not the sound. When they say "the TV animation" it's the show, the whole set.

Hope that stems some of the speculation. And yes, someone will have to take HG to court before things really clear up over in the US I think.

Edited October 3, 2003 by LePoseur

[wrylac]

Just one thing too to clear up any misconceptions, by owning the rights to the TV Tatsunoko owns it all, that means video and sound, exploitation rights, and so on, the whole shabang.

There would never be any case of they own the video and not the sound. When they say "the TV animation" it's the show, the whole set.

Jope that stems some of the speculation. And yes, some will have to take HG to court before thing really clear up over in the US I think.

I was planning a rather lenghty rebuttal to that notion but you seem to clear it up very concisely. People got that idea from some bad information given out in Jan and finally someone else but me is saying so.

[tom64ss]

Oh well, too bad. Can't blame me for being hopeful.

[the white drew carey]

Just one thing too to clear up any misconceptions, by owning the rights to the TV Tatsunoko owns it all, that means video and sound, exploitation rights, and so on, the whole shabang.

There would never be any case of they own the video and not the sound. When they say "the TV animation" it's the show, the whole set.

Jope that stems some of the speculation. And yes, some will have to take HG to court before thing really clear up over in the US I think.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure the sound is, in all likelihood, lumped in with the actual animation... except for, as we all know, the music and songs- Since they are owned by Victor.

As to the rights themselves? Tatsunoko may be granted certain rights through their ©, but the memorandum still holds as to the actual distribution of those rights and who actually is entitled to benefit from which rights.

[Keith]

Just one thing too to clear up any misconceptions, by owning the rights to the TV Tatsunoko owns it all, that means video and sound, exploitation rights, and so on, the whole shabang.

There would never be any case of they own the video and not the sound. When they say "the TV animation" it's the show, the whole set.

Jope that stems some of the speculation. And yes, some will have to take HG to court before thing really clear up over in the US I think.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure the sound is, in all likelihood, lumped in with the actual animation... except for, as we all know, the music and songs- Since they are owned by Victor.

As to the rights themselves? Tatsunoko may be granted certain rights through their ©, but the memorandum still holds as to the actual distribution of those rights and who actually is entitled to benefit from which rights.

Actually, the sound would be considered seperate. While Tatsunoko handled the animation, I don't believe they had anything to do with the dubbing. Not having license for an audio track happens all the time btw. Take a look at some of ADV's recent releases that have been dub only (though most they're re-releasing with a seperate subtitle license now). So Big West could indeed re-animate the whole thing, license it out to the U.S., and not have to pay any mind to HG or Tatsunoko.

But will they????

Edited October 2, 2003 by Keith

[Abombz!!]

Was there ever a doubt that Tatsunoko owned SDF Macross?

Actually, the sound would be considered seperate. While Tatsunoko handled the animation, I don't believe they had anything to do with the dubbing.

Its not about who has to do with what, its about who actually payed for it, and I think TP would have payed for it. That would include the voices. As for the BGM, it would probably fall in the same category as the songs.

[Aegis!]

Was there ever a doubt that Tatsunoko owned SDF Macross?

Actually , they only own the animation.

[Abombz!!]

Was there ever a doubt that Tatsunoko owned SDF Macross?

Actually , they only own the animation.

Yeah... it was implied. SDF Macross to tastsunoko and the designs to SN.

[Keith]

Was there ever a doubt that Tatsunoko owned SDF Macross?

Actually, the sound would be considered seperate. While Tatsunoko handled the animation, I don't believe they had anything to do with the dubbing.

Its not about who has to do with what, its about who actually payed for it, and I think TP would have payed for it. That would include the voices. As for the BGM, it would probably fall in the same category as the songs.

Actually no, Tatsunoko only specifically paid to produce the animation. As part of the deal, Big West promised them part ownership in the TV series itself. Tatsunoko took this to mean that included the concepts, designs, etc. It however only included rights to the first series itself.

Because Tatsunoko was only hired to help in the animation production workload, its far more likely Big West paid for the dubbing.

[lebhead]

psst...

there's a thread for this discussion, and it's not here. i think this thread has served its purpose.

[Ali Sama]

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20030925...001048-mai-soci

(my boss hwo is of japense decent helped me out)

from what i can make out, this article talks about Macross and Tatsunoko. i'm pretty illeterate in Japanese these days, so i was hoping somebody could translate it for me. i think it has something to do with the court ruling, but i'm not sure. sorry if this has already posted. thanks.

Basically, after two rounds of lawsuits, "Tatsunoko" (w/c seems to me the production company) has won "copyrights" over this Macross production (since they were the ones who fronted the money and were responsible for deadlines). This is a victory over "Studio Nu".

However, "Studio Nu" yet owns the copyrights to the character designs and costumes that pop-up in this production.

Edited October 3, 2003 by Ali Sama

[1st Border Red Devil]

Actually, the sound would be considered seperate. While Tatsunoko handled the animation, I don't believe they had anything to do with the dubbing.

Its not about who has to do with what, its about who actually payed for it, and I think TP would have payed for it. That would include the voices. As for the BGM, it would probably fall in the same category as the songs.

Go back and read the ORIGINAL ruling. IIRC, it stated that the Defendants (Tatsunoko) own the music and presumably the voicetrack.

[Pat Payne]

YDNRC, 1stBRD. All I've heard said that the music rights were never in dispute. they've always been held by Victor Music Industries, in the same way that Warner Tamerlane owns the rights to all the music from Star Wars (a 20th Century Fox film, of course). Now, the question is, though, does BW/Tatsunoko/whoever have an unlimited right to the music in the context of the TV show (most likely), and if so, by whom does that perpetual music license reside with?