1/55's revisited

[jvmacross]

1 minute ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

 @nightmareB4macross @jvmacross

You guys are amazing. Lol. Did any of you see the 1/55 VF-1D custom on YJ recently? I came so close to buying but someone beat me out before I could decide. I wondered if it was a Toynami/Bandai prototype.

Yes, but if it was it would have been mine...

It was just a fan mod.....

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c870082189

 

[DYRL VF-1S]

4 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Do you have a link? Or better yet pictures?

 

3 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Yes, but if it was it would have been mine...

It was just a fan mod.....

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/c870082189

 

Yeah just realized that as well looking at it and seeing the TT.

 

[jvmacross]

7 minutes ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

 

Yeah just realized that as well looking at it and seeing the TT.

 

it's great that we are finally getting a "DX" VF-1D PT toy after all these decades, but I would still insta-buy an official 1/55 Bandai VF-1D! 

Incidentally, the VF-1D was in the Takatoku pipeline but the call to make the DYRL 1/55 toys pushed it back...it's ironic that they also never received a "Takatoku" release as well

Edited December 27, 2020 by jvmacross

[jvmacross]

15 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

It think it might be later when they had to retool degraded molds and apply safety features which killed the look of the 1990 VF-1S Super.

Actually, no....we know that at minimum the piece that previously had the "T.T." was re-stamped with the Bandai logo during the original run of the 1/55 VF-1S Strike and VF-1A Hikaru....that definitely did not wait until the 1990 re-release of the TV Super VF-1S....

I actually have both the first batch release of the 1/55 Strike and the later release of the Strike with the "corrected" Bandai logo....

A later release of the Strike 1/55 VF-1S has the corrected Bandai stamp....so at least this particular "part" was all-new

 

[nightmareB4macross]

5 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Actually, no....we know that at minimum the piece that previously had the "T.T." was re-stamped with the Bandai logo during the original run of the 1/55 VF-1S Strike and VF-1A Hikaru....that definitely did not wait until the 1990 re-release of the TV Super VF-1S....

I actually have both the first batch release of the 1/55 Strike and the later release of the Strike with the "corrected" Bandai logo....

A later release of the Strike 1/55 VF-1S has the corrected Bandai stamp....so at least this particular "part" was all-new

 

I see your point, but it would only mean they retooled the inner back plate. I will have to recheck my figures are there are forensic clues that lead to the Takatoku molds. I’ll have to check and get back to you. But there is an immediate clue and that the arm Armour as when mated to the forearms.

[nightmareB4macross]

Per Graham,
1990 Bandai 1/55 VF-1A & VF-1J Heads
Bandai was at least considering making all 3 versions of the 1/55 Valkyrie when they did the 1990 re-tooling. As you can see these were also new interpretations of the old Takatoku head designs.

[jenius]

1 minute ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Per Graham,
1990 Bandai 1/55 VF-1A & VF-1J Heads
Bandai was at least considering making all 3 versions of the 1/55 Valkyrie when they did the 1990 re-tooling. As you can see these were also new interpretations of the old Takatoku head designs.

I know the guy that owns the prototype heads. 

[nightmareB4macross]

8 minutes ago, jenius said:

I know the guy that owns the prototype heads. 

Are you referring to XSToys?

[jenius]

Yep! Wasn't sure how much he wanted that known....

[nightmareB4macross]

Just now, jenius said:

Yep! Wasn't sure how much he wanted that known....

He used to bring these to the MWCon for display. Check the previous page on this thread. I posted a link.

[jvmacross]

7 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

I see your point, but it would only mean they retooled the inner back plate. I will have to recheck my figures are there are forensic clues that lead to the Takatoku molds. I’ll have to check and get back to you. But there is an immediate clue and that the arm Armour as when mated to the forearms.

Yes, we can only say with certainty that during the "DYRL" phase of toys...that the backplate was indeed modified....however, we also have all of the info regarding the changes made for the VT-1 and VE-1 releases, however, it does not seem like those made it onto the runs of the VF-1S and VF-1A DYRL toys from Bandai...

Here are some "prototype" pics of the Elint and SuperO found in some of the magazines of the day, as well as from the 1985 second Bandai catalog....note that they seem to still be using the "pointy" nose cone at the time these pics were used for the promotional pics....too bad they did not stick with the Takatoku mold by the time they went into the VT-1 and VE-1 production...

 

 

[jenius]

Alright, so hypothetical timeline goes like this:
Takatoku folds, Matsuhiro uses the molds unaltered to created Strike VF-1S toys to be sold by Bandai but stamped Takatoku with a sticker over it
Matsuhiro uses the molds again to make VF-1A Hikaru toys sold by Bandai, still stamped Takatoku with a sticker over it
Matsuhiro updates Jetfire mold to show "Made by Bandai". Does a Jetfire run
Matsuhiro uses new Jetfire mold to produce VT-1 then VE-1 toys for Bandai. This means every VT-1/VE-1 has the Bandai logo. Still not clear if the first VT-1's made have the black BANDAI sticker on them over a Bandai production mark.
Matsuhiro updates original Takatoku mold to show BANDAI and produces another run of VF-1S strike and VF-1A Hikaru toys. 
After several Strike VF-1S runs the mold is well worn and Matsuhiro sells it to Bandai with other assets due to its own financial difficulties.
Bandai updates the mold and creates the 1990 changes.
Everyone hates the 1990 toy so Bandai makes a new copy of the Takatoku mold and produces the 2001 toys.

Edited December 27, 2020 by jenius

[nightmareB4macross]

So here is what I found while peeling away a stickers from a couple of each variant.

VE-1 and VT-1 are exactly the same.

Left sticker - Copyright w/ Japanese text. Underneath is the Bandai Logo in square form

Right sticker - “Bandai 1985 Made in Japan”. Underneath the sticker it is stamped “Bandai 1984 Made in Japan”

 

As for the VF-1A Hikaru DYRL this one is a little strange. Also noticed something new.

Left sticker - Bandai 1984 Japan. Underneath it just says “Bandai”.

Right sticker - Valkyrie VF-1 with Copyright and Japanese text. Underneath is a sticker with Valkyrie VF-1S with Copyright and Japanese text. Underneath both stickers is the stamp Tokyo Japan. Oddly enough both my examples have these two stickers on them.

I believe these were left over from the original First Bandai manufactured VF-1S Strike Valkyrie which for some odd reason had stickers applied and when reused the second sticker “Valkyrie VF-1...” was used.

Now for the VF-1S Strike Valkyrie

There are two versions the one with the black stickers affixed to backplate are TT.

As for the TT version it comes with the textured box just as the Takatoku I tended. Left is Takatoku, right is later released Bandai.

 

BTW - The DYRL VF-1A Hikaru box is also texture exactly like the original Takatokus.

Lastly, he boxes for both the VE-1 and VT-1 are NOT textured. Plain old slick packaging, just like the second release VF-1S Strike Valkyries with Bandai stamping and stickers.

[jenius]

Wow, a wealth of information! Thank you so much.

[nightmareB4macross]

There is also this that pertains and leads to who was actually manufacturing...Matsushiro. They were probably in the midst of working with Bandai and Hasbro at the same time.

 

Both VT-1 and VE-1 share these detailed characteristics which are actually on the Marsushiro Jetfire. I’ll look for a copy which has both the Matsushiro stamp and these details later.

Additionally, the blunt note of the VT-1, VE-1, and (1st) Jetfire are share the same design of the blunt nose.

If you think back to what Bandai said about retooling they actually went and made a pointy nose. Prior to 1990 everything else was possibly outsourced to Matsushiro for manufacuring.

Edited December 27, 2020 by nightmareB4macross

[Anasazi37]

My reaction to all of this 1/55 history:

[nightmareB4macross]

1 minute ago, Anasazi37 said:

My reaction to all of this 1/55 history:

This is only the beginning. The history of the bootlegs themselves has even more twists and turns. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by nightmareB4macross

[Slave IV]

Awesome stuff! Thanks for sharing and look forward to more. 

[jenius]

Curiously, my strike VF-1S has a textured box, appears to be new/unused, but has the Bandai stamp, no stickers. I wonder if there weren't multiple runs of the strike VF-1S with only the final run dropping the textured box. Of course, there's always the possibility someone in the 30+ years of the toy switched the boxes. You can see the texture and the Bandai stamp in these pics.

Edited December 28, 2020 by jenius

[nightmareB4macross]

1 minute ago, jenius said:

Curiously, my strike VF-1S has a textured box, appears to be new/unused, but has the Bandai stamp, no stickers. I wonder if there weren't multiple runs of the strike VF-1S with only the final run dropping the textured box. Of course, there's always the possibility someone in the 30+ years of the toy switched the boxes.

It could be that there were excess boxes made with the Takatoku texture. There seems to be overflow of odds and ends.

[jvmacross]

I'm guessing the non-textured Strike box just coincides with the production/release of the VE/VT-1's, which all have the non-textured boxes....so the final run(s) of the Strike also had the non-textured boxes....so does that mean the VF-1A Hikaru just had one run after the initial Strike run....but none after the VE/VT runs?

On a separate but similar note.....my fantasy holy grail would be to find a Takatoku branded Hi-Comical VF-1S....it actually started life as a Takatoku product...but it seems the Hi-Comical toys all got branded as Bandai's at release...at least no Takatoku branded sample has been documented in the wild....

All this talk is making me go check my 1/100 VF-1 toys....the Takatoku/Bandai 1/100 VF-1's are the forgotten PT VF-1 toys of the era

 

[DYRL VF-1S]

30 minutes ago, jenius said:

Curiously, my strike VF-1S has a textured box, appears to be new/unused, but has the Bandai stamp, no stickers. I wonder if there weren't multiple runs of the strike VF-1S with only the final run dropping the textured box. Of course, there's always the possibility someone in the 30+ years of the toy switched the boxes. You can see the texture and the Bandai stamp in these pics.

 

25 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

It could be that there were excess boxes made with the Takatoku texture. There seems to be overflow of odds and ends.

Mine is textured too and was sealed when I bought it.

Edited December 28, 2020 by DYRL VF-1S

[nightmareB4macross]

13 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

I'm guessing the non-textured Strike box just coincides with the production/release of the VE/VT-1's, which all have the non-textured boxes....so the final run(s) of the Strike also had the non-textured boxes....so does that mean the VF-1A Hikaru just had one run after the initial Strike run....but none after the VE/VT runs?

On a separate but similar note.....my fantasy holy grail would be to find a Takatoku branded Hi-Comical VF-1S....it actually started life as a Takatoku product...but it seems the Hi-Comical toys all got branded as Bandai's at release...at least no Takatoku branded sample has been documented in the wild....

All this talk is making me go check my 1/100 VF-1 toys....the Takatoku/Bandai 1/100 VF-1's are the forgotten PT VF-1 toys of the era

 

I am sure if you take apart a JM you will find something that will link it to Takatoku.

As an example, did you know that Joons Valkyries have zero stamping on the backplate? But if you take apart the backpack, inside you will read “Made in Korea” in raised lettering. It’s worth a try exploring what could potentially be a solid nail in the coffin.

[nightmareB4macross]

7 minutes ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

 

Mine is textured too and was sealed when I bought it.

Post pictures, kind sir.

[jvmacross]

8 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

I am sure if you take apart a JM you will find something that will link it to Takatoku.

 

I do not have any of the "Matchbox" SD valks...do you?  What does their copyright stamps say?  Bandai?  I would assume that they were also produced for Takatoku by Matsushiro...but maybe not?  I always thought it was a shame that the Hi-comicals made it to the "Robotech" line but not the 1/100 VF-1's....guess they looked too much like their 1/55 big brothers, which meant too much like a Hasbro Jetfire....

BTW....proof that the Bandai "Hi-Comical" has Takatoku DNA......it was set for a June 1984 release at 2000 JPY...this comes from the Takatoku Toys Hobby and Toy Volume 2...

[nightmareB4macross]

In the Popy Best Catalogue

[jvmacross]

yep...the VE/VT prototypes still using the Takatoku "pointy" nose cone mold....

[nightmareB4macross]

8 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

yep...the VE/VT prototypes still using the Takatoku "pointy" nose cone mold....

They are the same from your promotional material but look at Bandai’s lowered price not much but they figured they can sell more in volume than per unit.

[jvmacross]

13 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

They are the same from your promotional material but look at Bandai’s lowered price not much but they figured they can sell more in volume than per unit.

Are you referring to the price of the Hi-Comical VF?  Yeah...20 yen discount...LOL

Also, note the change between the 1st Bandai catalog entry and the second one for the M&M VF-1J's...

Edited December 28, 2020 by jvmacross

[DYRL VF-1S]

3 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Post pictures, kind sir.

This is the box that was sealed. (I took a video of opening it to capture the moment lol.) You can see the Bandai and texture. I have another one that is NM that is also textured. I don’t believe Takatoku ever released these, right? Only promotional ads before Bandai took over.

[jenius]

Here are the known first issuance dates:

Bandai DYRL VF-1S Strike Hikaru: October 1984, 4,980¥
Bandai DYRL VF-1A Hikaru: January 1985 3,980¥
Bandai DYRL VT-1 SuperOstrich: April 1985, 4,980¥
Bandai DYRL VE-1 Elintseeker: June 1985 4,980¥

Does anyone know when Matsuhiro did their first run of Jetfire?

I would suggest that the 1S and 1A toys were released three times (or more). 1) Takatoku stamp with Bandai sticker and textured box. 2) Bandai stamp and textured box, 3) Bandai stamp and smooth box. I doubt the second releases happened before the VT/VE-1 toys due to how tight the schedule is, I would guess instead that the box manufacturer made more of what they did the first time for the second release and then were specifically told on the third time to drop the texture to save some yen. 

[DYRL VF-1S]

I need to double check my two Strikes and VF-1A now for the stamps, stickers etc. I’m curious.

[nightmareB4macross]

42 minutes ago, jenius said:

Here are the known first issuance dates:

Bandai DYRL VF-1S Strike Hikaru: October 1984, 4,980¥
Bandai DYRL VF-1A Hikaru: January 1985 3,980¥
Bandai DYRL VT-1 SuperOstrich: April 1985, 4,980¥
Bandai DYRL VE-1 Elintseeker: June 1985 4,980¥

Does anyone know when Matsuhiro did their first run of Jetfire?

I would suggest that the 1S and 1A toys were released three times (or more). 1) Takatoku stamp with Bandai sticker and textured box. 2) Bandai stamp and textured box, 3) Bandai stamp and smooth box. I doubt the second releases happened before the VT/VE-1 toys due to how tight the schedule is, I would guess instead that the box manufacturer made more of what they did the first time for the second release and then were specifically told on the third time to drop the texture to save some yen. 

That’s were Jetfire gets tricky. 1985 was the official date of release but as we’ve seen it could be late 1984. 
 

Here’s a fun fact for you guys. If you have a mint Jetfire you can actually tell when it was produced not by date stamp but numerical order.  Remove the front landing gear screw and check under the seat. Each seat has a unique call out. The sequence begins with it being BLANK. Then 1, 2, and then (IIRC) 3. The blank versions are the Takatoku versions.

Look here and tell me what you see. Start with Grey.

Also the color of the canopies and the painted frame are another indicator.

Edited December 28, 2020 by nightmareB4macross

[nightmareB4macross]

2 hours ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

This is the box that was sealed. (I took a video of opening it to capture the moment lol.) You can see the Bandai and texture. I have another one that is NM that is also textured. I don’t believe Takatoku ever released these, right? Only promotional ads before Bandai took over.

Thank you for doing this. More pictures are greatly appreciated.

[nightmareB4macross]

The story of Pony Go Round (SF,CA) and Robot Store (NY). I have seen this also occurring at Kimono My House (LA,CA).