1/55's revisited

[jenius]

Thanks for bringing up the Jetfire armor releases. So those releases had to have the smooth box I suppose?

Were those Taiwan knock-off VF-1S toys that only have half the strike Valkyrie box more official products sold without armor or are those really knock-offs?

[nightmareB4macross]

5 hours ago, jenius said:

Thanks for bringing up the Jetfire armor releases. So those releases had to have the smooth box I suppose?

Were those Taiwan knock-off VF-1S toys that only have half the strike Valkyrie box more official products sold without armor or are those really knock-offs?

Official product. 

[DYRL VF-1S]

8 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Thank you for doing this. More pictures are greatly appreciated.

Absolutely. Let me know what you need. I don’t mind at all. Especially helpful to confirm details since we know it was sealed when I received it.

5 hours ago, jenius said:

Thanks for bringing up the Jetfire armor releases. So those releases had to have the smooth box I suppose?

Were those Taiwan knock-off VF-1S toys that only have half the strike Valkyrie box more official products sold without armor or are those really knock-offs?

I have a complete Jetfire with box in NM if you need any pics. Though I’m sure the other guys do here as well.

[nightmareB4macross]

1 hour ago, DYRL VF-1S said:

Absolutely. Let me know what you need. I don’t mind at all. Especially helpful to confirm details since we know it was sealed when I received it.

I have a complete Jetfire with box in NM if you need any pics. Though I’m sure the other guys do here as well.

Thank you. Jetfire pics would be helpful as well.

[jvmacross]

3 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Official product. 

So it has a BW or HG license?  I am not sure why you would consider it an "official" product, please explain.

[nightmareB4macross]

21 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

So it has a BW or HG license?  I am not sure why you would consider it an "official" product, please explain.

 

21 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

So it has a BW or HG license?  I am not sure why you would consider it an "official" product, please explain.

Official product as it pertains to the contents. Officially released is another matter altogether.

[jenius]

6 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

 

Official product as it pertains to the contents. Officially released is another matter altogether.

Yeah, that was my meaning, it's a Bandai toy in the box. Does it have the Bandai stamp or did they dremel it off like the SDF-1 toys that were dumped as Space Fortress?

[jvmacross]

36 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

 

Official product as it pertains to the contents. Officially released is another matter altogether.

OK, in my definition, official license would also imply that the owner's marks would also be stamped on it.....are you saying that these are also stamped with Bandai marks?  If so, then these KO crews were even bolder in the past...lol

[nightmareB4macross]

15 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

OK, in my definition, official license would also imply that the owner's marks would also be stamped on it.....are you saying that these are also stamped with Bandai marks?  If so, then these KO crews were even bolder in the past...lol

I think you’ve completely missed the mark. These were legitimate items just combined since not enough Armour was produced for each, possibly because the runs ended and more were not going to be produced. Given that at time Matsushiro (manufacturing for Bandai) had access to both of these Valkyries and Jetfire armors. The result was combinations of overstock used to form these offerings to retailers at fire sale prices.

The VE-1 and VF-1S with Jetfire Armour both came in their respective boxes. The Valkyries themselves are Bandai branded. The only versions I have ever seen or have for that matter have a gunpod, gun clip, and bullets (or missiles). No stickers, promotional material, or instructions were included. Not all  of these have the BW sanction sticker affixed to them, as this also applies to complete Bandai releases VT-1, VE-1, VF-1S Strike, and VF-1A Hikaru releases.
 

These two particular versions are not KOs. Nor are they not officially licensed and/or marketed.  Just left over cobbled together to make a quick buck. There are quite a few shops that had these. Where I lived in Koreatown (LA, CA) these were found in various places along fully legitimized versions. Places I saw these were at Kimono My House and Mickey House across the street from the elementary school I went to.

[jenius]

30 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

OK, in my definition, official license would also imply that the owner's marks would also be stamped on it.....are you saying that these are also stamped with Bandai marks?  If so, then these KO crews were even bolder in the past...lol

They aren't KO crews in the way most would think. Many gray market Takatoku/Bandai toys were Matsuhiro produced toys finding different outlets. Some apparently by Matsuhiro, some probably after Bandai acquired Matsuhiro assets and liquidated stale stock. The legal complexities of the time and opportunism mingling.

[nightmareB4macross]

1 minute ago, jenius said:

They aren't KO crews in the way most would think. Many gray market Takatoku/Bandai toys were Matsuhiro produced toys finding different outlets. Some apparently by Matsuhiro, some probably after Bandai acquired Matsuhiro assets and liquidated stale stock. The legal complexities of the time and opportunism mingling.

I wouldn’t say these were KO crewes, more so  business men recuperating losses or trying to make a quick buck on mis-matched overstock.

Happens all the time.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, nightmareB4macross said:

I think you’ve completely missed the mark. These were legitimate items just combined since not enough Armour was produced for each, possibly because the runs ended and more were not going to be produced. Given that at time Matsushiro (manufacturing for Bandai) had access to both of these Valkyries and Jetfire armors. The result was combinations of overstock used to form these offerings to retailers at fire sale prices.

The VE-1 and VF-1S with Jetfire Armour both came in their respective boxes. The Valkyries themselves are Bandai branded. The only versions I have ever seen or have for that matter have a gunpod, gun clip, and bullets (or missiles). No stickers, promotional material, or instructions were included. Not all  of these have the BW sanction sticker affixed to them, as this also applies to complete Bandai releases VT-1, VE-1, VF-1S Strike, and VF-1A Hikaru releases.
 

These two particular versions are not KOs. Nor are they not officially licensed and/or marketed.  Just left over cobbled together to make a quick buck. There are quite a few shops that had these. Where I lived in Koreatown (LA, CA) these were found in various places along fully legitimized versions. Places I saw these were at Kimono My House and Mickey House across the street from the elementary school I went to.

It would be hard not to "miss the mark" when you were not providing all the details.....you had not pointed out the the toys actually had Bandai marks on them until now...ultimately, if the whole toy (including the box, etc) is not 100% licensed and packaged by the legit license holder...it is still a KO, no?

And just to be specific....the one I was referring to and what I think jenious was referring to originally was this one.....there is no way I can accept this as anything but a KO....I was not referring to the valk toys that come with "jetfire" armor that has already been analyzed as thoroughly as could be....even if the valk toy below is "legit" someone still had to go out of their way to produce the KO box to sell it as a complete "product"....of course, if you just sell the toy without the box, you could get away with saying it was an "original" Bandai...but still, the one pictured below has shoulder stickers that may belong to a jetfire...so back to square one....

 

12 hours ago, jenius said:

 

Were those Taiwan knock-off VF-1S toys that only have half the strike Valkyrie box more official products sold without armor or are those really knock-offs?

 

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, nightmareB4macross said:

I wouldn’t say these were KO crewes, more so  business men recuperating losses or trying to make a quick buck on mis-matched overstock.

Happens all the time.

If referring to the "half Strike Box" VF-1S....I would say it definitely had to involve some KO crew to get the box made, at minimum....the others with legit toys but wrong armor are a different matter...those are legit toys with deliberate "QC issues"....

[jenius]

10 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

It would be hard not to "miss the mark" when you were not providing all the details.....you had not pointed out the the toys actually had Bandai marks on them until now...ultimately, if the whole toy (including the box, etc) is not 100% licensed and packaged by the legit license holder...it is still a KO, no?

And just to be specific....the one I was referring to and what I think jenious was referring to originally was this one.....there is no way I can accept this as anything but a KO....I was not referring to the valk toys that come with "jetfire" armor that has already been analyzed as thoroughly as could be....even if the valk toy below is "legit" someone still had to go out of their way to produce the KO box to sell it as a complete "product"....of course, if you just sell the toy without the box, you could get away with saying it was an "original" Bandai...but still, the one pictured below has shoulder stickers that may belong to a jetfire...so back to square one....

 

 

Sorry, yes, several toys being discussed in short order. Do you own that toy JVmacross? Curious if it has a manufacturer mark. As Matsuhiro was failing they may have done many interesting things. 

[nightmareB4macross]

There is a lot of information and I think we’re not on the same wavelength here.

These two are the culmination of leftover parts. And the ones Jenius is referring to.

- Bandai VF-1S StikeValkyries with Jetfire Armor

- Bandai VE-1 Elintseeker with Jetfire Armor

The version you just pointed out in the picture is a half-sized Strike Valkyrie box that was produced as a KO by Ceppiratti or for Ceppiratti in Italy. There are two boxed versions of these. None have any Bandai branding. These are cousins of the full sized VF-1S Super Valkyries that were painted just like Hikaru’s DYRL Strike but were coupled with BLUE Super Parts. The Valkyries were either white or grey.

For reference the Bandai box is used to show the differences to the KO. There is a third box that exists in Italian.

Hope this cleared it up.

Edited December 28, 2020 by nightmareB4macross

[jvmacross]

4 minutes ago, jenius said:

Sorry, yes, several toys being discussed in short order. Do you own that toy JVmacross? Curious if it has a manufacturer mark. As Matsuhiro was failing they may have done many interesting things. 

No, I am not really that into the non-official releases...I mostly had KO's from the mid-80's and the Joon's but sold them all off years ago.

Yes, that clears it up @nightmareB4macross...lol....I was thinking there is no way that thing was legit....but was surprised when it seemed like you were saying it was......

I always defer to facts about KO collecting to @nightmareB4macrossand other KO experts....with that said, I think it is important to be clear about what makes something "legit" or "official"....not that most people with some knowledge would get ripped-off, but it is the new collectors that may fall victim to unscrupulous sellers......I may be alone in this, but using the word "official" for anything but the actual licensed toys sold by the IP holders is problematic....it does not matter if some or part of the toy is "legit".....but, that's just me....I think alot of folks look to this site as a source of facts when dealing with these items.....potential buyers beware I suppose

[nightmareB4macross]

29 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

No, I am not really that into the non-official releases...I mostly had KO's from the mid-80's and the Joon's but sold them all off years ago.

Yes, that clears it up @nightmareB4macross...lol....I was thinking there is no way that thing was legit....but was surprised when it seemed like you were saying it was......

I always defer to facts about KO collecting to @nightmareB4macrossand other KO experts....with that said, I think it is important to be clear about what makes something "legit" or "official"....not that most people with some knowledge would get ripped-off, but it is the new collectors that may fall victim to unscrupulous sellers......I may be alone in this, but using the word "official" for anything but the actual licensed toys sold by the IP holders is problematic....it does not matter if some or part of the toy is "legit".....but, that's just me....I think alot of folks look to this site as a source of facts when dealing with these items.....potential buyers beware I suppose

Yay!

But soon you will know officially stamped KO’s manufactured in ROC.  Or are they? 

Just when you thought it safe...

[jvmacross]

5 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Yay!

But soon you will know officially stamped KO’s manufactured in ROC.  Or are they? 

Just when you thought it safe...

Are you referring to the recent Yamato/Arcadia 3P VF-1's?  Yeah....unfortunately, like it or not, "KO", "unlicensed", "3P" these days no longer equates to being complete garbage...still....they are not official, especially when you have the actual license holders warning their customers about them.....again, buyer beware

[nightmareB4macross]

30 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Are you referring to the recent Yamato/Arcadia 3P VF-1's?  Yeah....unfortunately, like it or not, "KO", "unlicensed", "3P" these days no longer equates to being complete garbage...still....they are not official, especially when you have the actual license holders warning their customers about them.....again, buyer beware

Not at all. This thread is only about the 1/55. This is from 1983?-1985.

When I have more time to elaborate and fine tune some details you’ll have have more information. I just slashed open my middle finger on my hobby chair and don’t want to bleed all over the examples I have.

Oh well.

[jvmacross]

14 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Not at all. This thread is only about the 1/55. This is from 1983?-1985.

When I have more time to elaborate and fine tune some details you’ll have have more information. I just slashed open my middle finger on my hobby chair and don’t want to bleed all over the examples I have.

Oh well.

This hobby requires sacrifices to be made...just slap a Band-Aid on it and start "elaborating".....

[nightmareB4macross]

Hahaha...

Believe me I tried, but my finger soaked the band aids clean off. Then I had to use Nu-Skin to place the skin back and use band aides again to held everything in place.

Be patient. I never even knew this existed until recently. Great thing to confirm it’s existence is that it’s mint and compete. Originally I had purchased a loose version of this an was trying to validate what it was, but the complete version answered most of my questions.

[Sanity is Optional]

Personally I suggest superglue as a bandaid. I keep a bottle around for just that while I'm building models.

[jenius]

These toys are nearly 40 years old... we can be patient while he heals.

[jvmacross]

2 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Hahaha...

Believe me I tried, but my finger soaked the band aids clean off. Then I had to use Nu-Skin to place the skin back and use band aides again to held everything in place.

Bruh.....are you sitting on a replica of the Iron Throne? LOL!!

[jenius]

Was the red heat shield offered for the strike valkyrie the same shield that came with the 1A toy? How did one get that heat shield? Anyone got an extra?

[DYRL VF-1S]

1 hour ago, jenius said:

Was the red heat shield offered for the strike valkyrie the same shield that came with the 1A toy? How did one get that heat shield? Anyone got an extra?

Yes, exactly the same. It was through mail-in. Here’s are pics of that mail-in. Credit goes to @nightmareB4macross and @jvmacross during my search for info. My avatar displays it.

 

[sqidd]

3 hours ago, jenius said:

Was the red heat shield offered for the strike valkyrie the same shield that came with the 1A toy? How did one get that heat shield? Anyone got an extra?

There is a guy who advertises on the Macroos FB groups out of Singapore (I think) that has them for cheap, cheap. Sorry, not much to go on.

[jenius]

6 hours ago, sqidd said:

There is a guy who advertises on the Macroos FB groups out of Singapore (I think) that has them for cheap, cheap. Sorry, not much to go on.

That reminds me... there was someone selling them on eBay at one point for pretty cheap. I couldn't track them down just now though but I'll keep an eye out. 

[TheLoneWolf]

Speaking of Matsushiro, this is a Matsushiro 1/55 Super VF-1S.

My guess is that it is a proof on concept Jetfire by Matsushiro. Note that the (bent) box flap on the top and box's bezel are nearly a perfect match to Jetfire's production box.

And the signature is from Kawamori, cause reasons

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, TheLoneWolf said:

Speaking of Matsushiro, this is a Matsushiro 1/55 Super VF-1S.

My guess is that it is a proof on concept Jetfire by Matsushiro. Note that the (bent) box flap on the top and box's bezel are nearly a perfect match to Jetfire's production box.

And the signature is from Kawamori, cause reasons

Nice!  I remember when that came up on YJA and being surprised that it did not get as much attention....congrats!

[TheLoneWolf]

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Nice!  I remember when that came up on YJA and being surprised that it did not get as much attention....congrats!

Good memory! I was also surprised by the lack of attention. Most people who saw the auction were probably thinking "Nice white box, bfd."

Imagine my shock when I opened up the package and saw that it was actually a Matsushiro.

[jenius]

Absolutely, what a superb item for a collector. Does it have the Jetfire nose?

[TheLoneWolf]

33 minutes ago, jenius said:

Absolutely, what a superb item for a collector. Does it have the Jetfire nose?

No, it's got the standard Takatoku nosecone.

[jvmacross]

1 minute ago, TheLoneWolf said:

No, it's got the standard Takatoku nosecone.

That is actually pretty cool!  I wonder if Matsushiro by this point had already created the mold revision per the specs needed for the Jetfire and just tossed a valk they had lying around just to provide a "boxed visual" as they worked on getting the approval for the box re-design?  It would be even cooler if the request to "fix" the nose cone came after this very "proto-type" had been sent to Hasbro.

[glane21]

What was the description on the Yahoo auction?  Did the seller claim it was the jet fire packaging prototype? Or mention how they got hold of it?

Edited December 30, 2020 by glane21