jvmacross Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 who knows....but it's just a good example of what is wrong ith eBay these days..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 So I was curious to see what is going on with that cel(s) so I contacted the lowest price seller feigning interest in buy the cel. He claims he owns the cel and the others are resellers. If the others sell the cel they will buy and ship it from his "site" in Japan. I think he meant that to be location in Japan and not website. I took a very, very quick look through the Ebay selling policies and didn't see anything jump out at me that shows what they are doing is not allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oden Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) The waviness appearance of the cel does not appear to be an artifact of any pore photographic skills. I would consider it significant to the value of this item. If i were to appraise this one i would estimate its value somewhere between $125-$200. I'm curious what value others would place on this one. Let the appraising begin.. IMO, two of the three auctions I would categorize as "fraudulent" due to the fact that only one can claim to be the "original DYRL" cel (i.e. the other cels must be "copies" then wouldn't you say, hint hint). Edited October 27, 2018 by Oden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 My understanding is they are not copies, but multiple people attempting to sell the same item, hence the identical pictures. There is only one cel but it is listed three times. They acknowledge the waviness in the description, which is degradation of the cel with time. Even though, it is a DYRL cel of two main characters. Depending on the individual's concern over the stability of the cel I would value it at $500-$1000. @Oden You must have significant concerns over the condition of the cel. I have never seen a DYRL cel of main characters similar to this one sell for as low as you suggest. Or you have some great sources that I need you to share with me. Now the fact that two other people are trying to sell a cel owned by another, and that the owner appears to not only be aware of it but ok with it, is totally not cool in my book. I told him as much, in a congenial, diplomatic way in our conversation. He has not yet responded with any sort of defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 So which auction represents the legitimate owner? The lowest one? Anyway....it falls under eBay's fraudulent listing practices..... "We also don't allow multiple listings of the same single item. For example, if you have a single first edition copy of The Lord of the Rings that you're looking to sell, you can't create 2 different listings for that item." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokman Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, jvmacross said: So which auction represents the legitimate owner? The lowest one? That is the only seller I contacted and he said the item was his. If that is indeed Ebay's policy I guess they are in violation and perhaps should be reported. *I can't decide if I care enough to go through whatever process that involves.* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 (edited) I think those listings speak for themselves....pretty sure it is either the same seller or a couple of friends helping him out....it makes the lowest priced listing "seem" better to some of the recent "bunghole gaijin" making outragous bids on YJA....those bids have apparently acted as chum and seem to have brought out the sharks on eBay! Edited October 27, 2018 by jvmacross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 3 hours ago, jvmacross said: Anyway....it falls under eBay's fraudulent listing practices..... "We also don't allow multiple listings of the same single item. For example, if you have a single first edition copy of The Lord of the Rings that you're looking to sell, you can't create 2 different listings for that item." At this point I do not care which listing is legitimate; there is no reason to trust these sellers. Creating multiple listings of the same item offered by different users to me is fraudulent. This is no different than using multiple accounts to shill bid. Both practices are deceptive and fraudulent. For this particular cel, it is illogical to have other users list and potentially sell the same item when the "owner" already is listing the item. It is unlikely the "owner" will care to provide a 'defense' to any commentary by a gaijin; you will probably get ignored or blocked just like if you attempted the same with our friend urbantreasurehunterjapan. Lastly, jvmacross you nailed it; glad you cited the ebay rule where the practice is not allowed. This is why I shared this specific cel with the group so others could be forewarned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Shill listing is a thing now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Looking at the recent Macross cel auctions, prices can vary. I couldn't find that Flashback scene. I didn't look hard enough. But it didn't go that high. I was going to attempt to win one. I probably would have won if I tried but I'm hoping others from the same scene show up. Perhaps during the holidays. It's not really Macross but I put my efforts into a Megazone 23 cel and lost. I bet that there wouldn't be that much interest in it and was wrong. It was a one of a kind setup though. But as I tend to like Parts 2 and 3 more I'm not really sore over the loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 7 hours ago, JetJockey said: It was a one of a kind setup though. But as I tend to like Parts 2 and 3 more I'm not really sore over the loss. It was not a Macross cel....so even more reason not to be sore over it! Keep trying....some day you may get one by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Wow.....nice Minmay cel...but 95,000 JPY nice? Maybe it was drawn by Mikimoto? https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/339814821 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) Collectors only own anime cels deliberately. One needs to pay for the privilege to own one. If you want a Macross cel better pay more or collect another series. @jvmacross That cel from Macross 7 episode 11. Reference 6:47. To my knowledge this version of Minmay is not drawn by Mikimoto. Still it is a very nice cel. Edited November 13, 2018 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 4 hours ago, jvmacross said: Wow.....nice Minmay cel...but 95,000 JPY nice? Maybe it was drawn by Mikimoto? https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/339814821 It was a group auction. Perhaps that's priced in as well? Asylum Anime has some Minmay cels. Some cheap. And some not so cheap! https://asylum-anime.com/store/index.php/anime-cels/series-name-l-m/macross.html Anyone know if there was a lot of cel talk on the old Robotech forums? I never browsed that forum too much. I think I only looked at it a handful of times. Same goes for the Rubberslug forums though. The Cels.org forum looks like it was the most popular forum for anime cels before that died. I remember reading something about cels being at the old US Renditions or at Harmony Gold convention stands I think. I'm just looking for old pictures. I remember posting that a friend of mine tried to win that Robotech Sentinels big cel with all the characters. But that was fairly recent, in the last 5 or so years if not a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Fortress_Maximus said: Collectors only own anime cels deliberately. One needs to pay for the privilege to own one. If you want a Macross cel better pay more or collect another series. @jvmacross That cel from Macross 7 episode 11. Reference 6:47. To my knowledge this version of Minmay is not drawn by Mikimoto. Still it is a very nice cel. Hey Maximus... .the Minmay version in M7 is actually a Mikimoto "version"...he was the lead charater designer for M7...and all other M7 spin-offs.....my remark was basically alluding to the possibility that Mikimoto himself may have gotten involved in that specific sequence you referenced from M7 Ep11.....it would certainly explain the high final winning bid....although I am not particularly fond of that era of character design from the ever changing "Mikimoto-style", it certainly would have been nice to have owned it at say 500USD...especially since it also came with the very nice genga. There is no way the other two cels in that "lot" had anything but a minimal effect on the final auction price. That was all Minmay's doing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 12 hours ago, JetJockey said: It was a group auction. Perhaps that's priced in as well? Asylum Anime has some Minmay cels. Some cheap. And some not so cheap! https://asylum-anime.com/store/index.php/anime-cels/series-name-l-m/macross.html Those M7 cels hardly ever get much more than 100USD bids...they had a very minimal effect on the final auction price....that was all Minmay! As for Asylum Anime....seems they are going the UTH and other recent bunghole scalper route, in terms of raiding YJA and selling for double...except maybe they are skipping the ebay middleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 @jvmacross Agreed. This version of Minmay was Mikimoto-esce but probably was not drawn by him personally. Need to check the episode end credits to be certain. Nevertheless as you commented the other cels in this M7 cel lot would not command anything remotely close to Minmay. I personally prefer his older character designs over this modern style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Fortress_Maximus said: @jvmacross Agreed. This version of Minmay was Mikimoto-esce but probably was not drawn by him personally. Need to check the episode end credits to be certain. Nevertheless as you commented the other cels in this M7 cel lot would not command anything remotely close to Minmay. I personally prefer his older character designs over this modern style. Pretty much this style....not the best Mikimoto era, not the worst... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 On 11/13/2018 at 11:16 AM, jvmacross said: As for Asylum Anime....seems they are going the UTH and other recent bunghole scalper route, in terms of raiding YJA and selling for double...except maybe they are skipping the ebay middleman. Is $3000 too much for a nude Minmay cel for you? I don't recall seeing that one at any of the other auctions. Or I can't remember. I just want a Minmay singing cel. I don't think I could display that Minmay nude scene. I think some of the nude scenes in Dirty Pair Project Eden and Megazone 23 Part 2 are a bit more clever. A friend of mine has a few of the Dirty Pair Project Eden opening cels framed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 (edited) Post an actual picture. Without seeing it no one can tell you if 3k is too much for a nude DYRL Minmay cel. These rarely appear for sale so it depends on a lot of factors. Also if you truly want to own a Minmay singing cel, to be frank make a significantly higher maximum bid, otherwise, lower your expectations. Edited November 15, 2018 by Fortress_Maximus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 The nude one they are selling was originally on YJA a few years ago....it's basically just a gag cel, a novelty....no one would pay that much for it.....also it is not the best one you could get from the sequence... The cel from the shower sequence you'd want would be something like this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Oh that cel on Asylum of DYRL Minmay... yes it is overpriced. But considering the rarity of the sequence, if you are serious about buying it @JetJockey contact the store and make them a serious offer (don't waste their time if you are low balling). @jvmacross Yes ideally if one were to hunt for a DYRL nude Minmay something similar to the poster image you shared would be ideal. However, I know owners of that cel sequence and there is no way they would even listen to offers as low as 3k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Yep...personally I wouldn't pay that much for a cel I couldn't open display....but if someone did want one....that particular shot is what would bring the most interest and price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I might take a Dana in the shower scene from Southern Cross since that was a cut scene that never made it into Robotech. I still need to see those original versions. At least you could frame something up like that of Dana after a battle sequence or something. I have no problem with the nude Ghost in the Shell opening scenes. I was close to getting one of those but the shot wasn't the one I was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oden Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 13 hours ago, JetJockey said: I might take a Dana in the shower scene from Southern Cross since that was a cut scene that never made it into Robotech. I still need to see those original versions. At least you could frame something up like that of Dana after a battle sequence or something. I have no problem with the nude Ghost in the Shell opening scenes. I was close to getting one of those but the shot wasn't the one I was looking for. Sounds like a request. http://oden.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=423510 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortress_Maximus Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Nice cel Oden! Post up more of your Macross DYRL and TV cels to RS. Would like to see the full collection for one series if possible. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 11/16/2018 at 4:38 PM, Oden said: Sounds like a request. http://oden.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=423510 If that was a recent win that must have been a short auction as I don't remember seeing that one. You should post some of those in that No Love for Southern Cross topic as there doesn't seem to be much cel talk for other series in this topic even though it's a Macross/Animation Cel Collection topic. I hope you aren't the person that defeated me for that Dana in Wonderland cel and background with her on the hovercraft. I thought I had that one. Still I got a cool Megazone Eve cel afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oden Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 (edited) Not a recent cel, I've had this cel for sometime now. I'm not familiar with Dana in wonderland cel and background, can you provide an image? Edited November 24, 2018 by Oden wrong pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oden Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Thanks Fortress_Maximus. I'll add a few more Macross DYRL and TV this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Seems this one went pretty high as well....44,90 JPY https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g308245498 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetJockey Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 11/19/2018 at 9:48 PM, Oden said: Not a recent cel, I've had this cel for sometime now. I'm not familiar with Dana in wonderland cel and background, can you provide an image? I'll look around and see if I saved it. I'm sure I did somewhere as it was the best Southern Cross scene I've seen since I started really looking. But I didn't expect much of a fight since the last good Mospeada cel and background I saw didn't even break $100. In other news, I finally see the Urban Treasure Hunter as being way out of control. I was going to try for this Misa DYRL cel a few weeks ago. But guess who won it? https://www.ebay.com/itm/MACROSS-MOVIE-ROBOTECH-MISA-HAYASE-ANIME-PRODUCTION-CEL-3/163387649566?hash=item260aa9ae1e:g:eqsAAOSwwj5b9XrY:rk:26:pf:0 I think it didn't even break $100. I was checking ebay for Macross cels and surprise what do I see? That same Misa cel but the price! $700 but "on sale" for $525. No amount of discount they offer will get to where this cel should be priced for a possible United States buyer. They obviously try to make more money on the big name anime shows. They are doing the same overpricing for a Ghost in the Shell cel that ended around $500. Urban Treasure Hunter has that "on sale" for $1350 off a $1800 listing price. Or maybe they just want to get a rise out of people here if they lurk on this forum. Yet a $600+ mark up on Misa is insane for a barely average cel. This is the first time I really caught the crazy flip price. I guess I'm still lucky they never had anything I really wanted. The other person I know never paid they anywhere near that Macross cel price so the flip percentage wasn't there. But still, I shake my head at these mark ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u238831850 Not sure if the "winner" really was hoping to win this one by 1 yen.....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saffabrat Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 1 hour ago, jvmacross said: https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/u238831850 Not sure if the "winner" really was hoping to win this one by 1 yen.....LOL Hahaha etc. That is crazy - $900 ish and you don't see the whole face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvmacross Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 5 hours ago, saffabrat said: Hahaha etc. That is crazy - $900 ish and you don't see the whole face... I think there were a couple more FB2012 cels that recently ended that also featured a Minmay looking away....but those went for half the price of this one.....still high though....I will try and post the links Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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