YF-19 and SV-51 for radio control

[Chewie]

Wow, just looked at this thread for the first time. Absolutely amazing SV-51. Hope you can take and post some video clips of the thing in flight.

Graham

328841[/snapback]

He has...

here:

http://home.comcast.net/~nsknews/SV...hCompressed.AVI

and here:

http://home.comcast.net/~we-shoppe/SV-513tries.avi

I can't wait to see more...

Carl

328850[/snapback]

That hurt to watch but God damn was that tight. Good work.

[IAD]

I may try a turbulator, if my latest set of fixes doesn't work. (If that's what you're talking about, JadeFalcon. Was your addition oriented spanwise, or chord-wise?)

Putting it plainly though, I don't think that at this size/weight/speed, the inverse spanwise flow is playing a significant role. Don't forget, this aircraft is capable of maybe 35-40 MPH, max., and has a wingloading of less than 9 oz/ft^2.. It's hard to describe, but what I've observed is that at wingloadings below about 10 oz/ft^2, the shape of the wings is increasingly less significant. (As long as the area is there, you're good to go.)

For example, I've flown an aircraft with rather forward-swept wings (see attached) without any problems. If spanwise flow was a serious issue, there should have been a massive nose-up pitching behavior, which simply never happened. Again, it was very light, and flew relatively slowly, at 25-30 MPH, max.. (Interestingly enough, since the swept-forward wing setup worked so well, I think a YF-19 just might work.)

Now, from what I've observed, a heavier, faster model (like your low-wing ship) is much more sensitive to strange wing planforms, and things like turbulators, stall-strips, and wing-fences do their respective jobs better.

I don't think this will ever be a real hotrod, so for me, the object is to get the best low-speed control possible. Of course, this means sensitive controls at higher speed, but again, these lightweight aircraft are pretty easy to fly. Aside from nosing down in flight, it's actually a very stable airframe.

HWR, I actually don't have any subscriptions to model magazines, so they were sort of the last thing on my mind. Keen idea, though.

Originally, I planned not to have any aerodynamic controls, but decided some small ones just to help with keeping things under control in the event of a motor-out condition would be a smart idea. If you look at the photos though, you'll see how small the control-surfaces are. Considering their close proximity to the center of gravity, they can never be very effective. The canards will help with pitch quite a bit, as they are quite far forwards of the center of gravity. In terms of roll, my best guess would be that they won't have much effect, since they are still rather small, and don't have much leverage to get all that wing and what-not moving.

Anyhow, I hope to slip a flight in tomorrow (Friday) but there is a lot of rain predicted from a distantly-passing tropical storm... If I can just get 20 minutes of good weather though, I'll go for it.

~Luke

Edited September 16, 2005 by IAD

[Graham]

Awesome videos, although the crashes made me go ouch.

Luke, you do realise that you are going to have to make a flyable APHOS as well now .

It would be great if we could find some way for Kawamori to see these videos. I bet he'd get a real kick at seeing one of his creations fly for real.

Graham

[IAD]

Indeed, crashes are nasty things.

Yes the APHOS would be a pretty neat thing... Maybe a bit hard to get to work, though. What I really want are a few CF VF-0As to shoot down.

~Luke

[jadefalconguard]

I'm not sure what you mean bu turbulator. I'm talking about a module that allows to attach two different functions (on two or more seperate servo's) to work together (or inverted) but with an exponantional reaction, i.e. if your rudder goes +1 to the right your ailerons will go also +1 to the right , but if you increase your rudder to +4 your ailerons will go +6 or +8. Equally you can have these inverted so +4 right rudder gives -6 or -8 right aileron (so left ). You could control the canards that with a minimal input on the vanes that your canards don't really react. As soon as you give more input the canards will start to work with the vanes.

As far of the fences go, I installed a fence of 5 cm (about 2.5inch) along the LE of the wings. The problem I had was that the flaperons couldn't control the plane during high speed passes and dives AND on landing speeds the flaps had an adverse effect (i.e. climbing ). The last didn't have much to see with the airflow an sich as the flaperons where to close to the CG.

Anyway, the fences gave just enough drag and turbulence along the flaperons so I could control the bird.

Judging from the video's the SV seemed very stable. One of my friends had a model from a Kfir (equipped with a push prop). It basicly had the same problem you encountered. I gave him a call last night to get the solution he used. He solved it by getting the canards to work in combination with the flaperons. The resulting problem was that on high speeds the Kfir got extremely sensitive to 'height' inputs. I translated some of your feedbacks and his view was that the canards could give you a hand. The only factor he can't take into account is the size of the model. His smallest model was a 10cc big lift

Anyway, hope you get it to do what you want.

G.

Edited September 16, 2005 by jadefalconguard

[IAD]

A turbulator is a thin strip of material raised above the surface of the wing, running spanwise, about 1/3 back along the top surface of the wing. It helps to prevent the airflow from 'detaching' from the back of the airfoil, improving stall characteristics, and the effectiveness of any control surfaces behind it.

I'd like to try some different mixing strategies on the canards, but because this is a very small model, I can't afford the weight of extra servos. (I'm using two servos, with linkages to the various control systems.)

Sounds like non-functional canards are not a good idea, eh? I've got the canards working now, so the next flight should be pretty different...

Anyway, it's been misting all day, so no flight to report. Sunday is suppose to clear up though, so hopefully I'll do some testing then.

~Luke

[jadefalconguard]

I'll be keeping fingers crossed. Hope all goes wel

Geert

Edit : spell check

Edited September 16, 2005 by jadefalconguard

[HWR MKII]

Looks like making the canards work was he best thing. I know in anime some details are thrown in for the cool factor but in this case they make practical sense. I hope i can see the vid before i leave.

[IAD]

This is a cross-post from RCG, but pretty much covers all the latest flight-data:

Well, got quite a bit of testing in, the canards really get the control to a point where I can LAND without damaging anything. Unfortunately, as a side-effect, they also make the airframe nose-light. (I did remove the reflex in the fins after a couple tests, to zero in on the issue.)

On every flight, it basically came down to the same thing: On launch, the nose would go up a bit. Naturally, I'd give a down elevator command.

After that, it would fly straight, gaining speed, and the control was perfect (though I'd have to hold the down elevator.) On the first turn, it would balloon up a bit and stop in mid-air. (Classic nose-light behavior.)

The thrust-vector would get the nose back down enough to putter in and land. (The fans couldn't get the airframe back up on step in time, after the mid-air stop.)

After more than an hour of short hops, the airframe was still in one piece, however. This is a big step forwards, and is testimony to the much-improved control system. Towards the end of testing, one of the motors started making a 'click' sound as it was throttled down to 'off'. Sounded like a blade of grass caught in the fan, but I didn't see anything.

The last flight went a bit off-course, and I crashed into a fence, while flying at 75 deg. alpha...(!!!) Thrust-vector + canard + nose-light make for very interesting capabilities, it would seem. Very minor damage, but I decided to stop while I was ahead.

So, looks like the profile job may have given me the proper CG location after all. The active canards did the trick, all my control headaches are gone, and aside from the motor noise, things are looking good. Could have been better, but could have been a lot worse, too. More modifications coming up.

~Luke

[jadefalconguard]

Luke,I most say I'm very dissapointed. ....NO VIDEO

Great job you got it flying and landing again. Hope to see a video very soon. Hands dwon.

[IAD]

~Luke

[IAD]

Just a quick update. More testing tomorrow (hopefully, if time allows) and some work on a new SV airframe... All foam and fiberglass, to make it stronger, and save weight... (Plus it will look much more scale. Some shots of the CAD work have been posted on the RC-Groups thread.)

Also, I just finished the first couple episodes of the M+ OVA. (My first Macross... ) Now I have to build a YF-21 after the SV-51. (The 21 is just begging for being made into a flying model... Nice simple airframe, with lots of wing.)

~Luke

Edited September 23, 2005 by IAD

[Ido]

Just a quick update.  More testing tomorrow (hopefully, if time allows) and some work on a new SV airframe...  All foam and fiberglass, to make it stronger, and save weight...  (Plus it will look much more scale.  Some shots of the CAD work have been posted on the RC-Groups thread.) 

Also, I just finished the first couple episodes of the M+ OVA.  (My first Macross...    )  Now I have to build a YF-21 after the SV-51.  (The 21 is just begging for being made into a flying model...  Nice simple airframe, with lots of wing.)

~Luke

330788[/snapback]

Great news, but what about a VF-22 instead of the YF-21, or both ? (nicer canopy) What about mind control system?

<-YF-21

<-VF-22S

Good luck for the tests!

[mk16]

Just a quick update.  More testing tomorrow (hopefully, if time allows) and some work on a new SV airframe...  All foam and fiberglass, to make it stronger, and save weight...  (Plus it will look much more scale.  Some shots of the CAD work have been posted on the RC-Groups thread.) 

Also, I just finished the first couple episodes of the M+ OVA.  (My first Macross...    )  Now I have to build a YF-21 after the SV-51.  (The 21 is just begging for being made into a flying model...  Nice simple airframe, with lots of wing.)

~Luke

330788[/snapback]

YF-21 o.o... as if the sv-51 wanst incredible enough...i say go for it with all your heart !

/CHEERS

[IAD]

The VF-22 is the same as the YF, except for the canopy is different, correct? (Obviously the VF doesn't have the BDI, etc., but from a modeling point of view....)

Anyhow, I started rough-cutting the foam today for the new SV... Unfortunately, I blew the fuse in the hot-wire cutting transformer... I did get the upper nacelle components cut, though... They look good, and are quite light.

Didn't get any flight testing in, due to poor weather... (Too gusty.)

~Luke

<<Edit: Doi. I meant VF-22, not VF-21.>>

Edited September 24, 2005 by IAD

[David Hingtgen]

The -22 has different belly details, due to a gunpod/missile launcer difference. The two large "belly plates", forward/outer section. I don't have any GOOD pics readily available. I'm not sure of if it's actually a shape difference or simply engravings/details.

Edited September 24, 2005 by David Hingtgen

[Ido]

There are 4 canon color schemes for the 22, Max's light blue and white, Millia's Red and white, Gamlin's Navy blue and yellow with red tinted canopy or VFX game blue.

[IAD]

Thanks for the info..! Looks like the VF-22S has a pair of internally mounted cannon, whereas the YF-21 has the gunpod mount?

I'm sort of drawn to the YF, though... A bit cleaner, with fewer bumps to model.

On the less real-world side of things: Where do the legs fit/hide on the 21/22S? I've seen it in Gerwalk mode, and it looks like they just 'magically' sprout from the bottom somewhere?

~Luke

[Ido]

Thanks for the info..!  Looks like the VF-22S has a pair of internally mounted cannon, whereas the YF-21 has the gunpod mount?

I'm sort of drawn to the YF, though...  A bit cleaner, with fewer bumps to model. 

On the less real-world side of things:  Where do the legs fit/hide on the 21/22S? I've seen it in Gerwalk mode, and it looks like they just 'magically' sprout from the bottom somewhere?

~Luke

331188[/snapback]

The yf-21 has external mounted gunpods, the vf-22 gunpod its store internally.

The legs are stored retracted inside the fuselage under the two large panels you see in the bottom, its a unique feature of this valk, the arms are the fusulage sides.

Most of the yf-21 anime magic its the front fuselage that become very short in battroid mode.

Look at this perfect transformation model.

http://park1.wakwak.com/~jasshy/yf21.html

[Fortress_Maximus]

Great work, love the details... hoping for another flight!

[IAD]

Yes, me too. (Hoping for a flight.) I still want to pin down the CG on the balsa version, before I launch my freshly-fiberglassed-super-scale-foam version....

This weekend is shaping up badly for getting the time, though.

Thanks again for the info on the 21/22S..!

~Luke

Edited September 24, 2005 by IAD

[IAD]

Well, I got some work done on the foam/fiberglass version. Coming along nicely now. Can't wait to start shaping the cross-sections...

~Luke

[IAD]

Worked on sanding off the corners on the fowards fuselage... A couple pictures of the first rough-sanding can be found here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.ph...8&postcount=273

(Still working on how to do the final shaping on the canopy. Strange-shaped thing, that...)

~Luke

[IAD]

Oh, by the way... Is this really what Ivanov looks like?

A guy with a face like that gets to fly an SV-51 Gamma? I can see it in real life, but in a movie? Good thing he wears that snazzy helmet.

~Luke

(Or maybe it's his hair... He looks sort of comical, somehow.)

Edited September 30, 2005 by IAD

[IAD]

Definitely the hair. With his helmet on, he looks fine. I guess I'll still use his colors on the second SV.

~Luke

[IAD]

I've started cutting the ductwork. So far, 66%+ of the ducting is cut, and one fan is installed.

Pictures can be seen here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.ph...3&postcount=274

~Luke

[Ido]

Looks great.

I wonder, will you add these nosecone details to this model? The balsa version didn't have them if I am right.

[IAD]

Yes, I'm planning on installing the active stealth array this time.

Hey, I even want to put the big wingtip pods on it this time!

~Luke

[IAD]

Some new pictures. As you can see, the level of detail will be at least a bit higher on this one.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.ph...6&postcount=280

~Luke

[nachoted]

any progress?

[IAD]

A little. Here's the latest post on RC-G:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread....=21#post4414113

~Luke

Edited October 7, 2005 by IAD

[IAD]

More work... Starting to loose the blocky look. (Thank goodness!)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.ph...8&postcount=312

~Luke

[IAD]

I managed to get both wing roots installed, and the lifting body rough-sanded. Looking good, in my opinion. (Better than last time, definitely. Also, much lighter. 3.5 oz, so far. The balsa one was up at 5+ oz. by this stage.)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.ph...5&postcount=313

~Luke

Edited October 15, 2005 by IAD

[Fortress_Maximus]

Looking DAMN good!

[nachoted]

any news or progress or video

for the two weeks that passed since your last report