Did Zentradis boycott DYRL?

[Uxi]

He only came back around after Studio Nue pooch-screwed Macross 2.

IIRC Studio Nue had nothing at all to do with Macross II, which is why they retcon'ed it into an alternate universe (which makes as much sense as it being fictional sequel to DYRL's movie-in-a-movie). Either you're not paying that much attention... or I'm not (though that's possible).

I think the whole movie-in-a-movie thing is ridiculous. Especially since almost all of the contradictory material (origins of the Macross, etc) aren't even mentioned on film. Why would the Macross be a Meltran ship, for example? Pure ridiculous. Some of the stuff was definately better like Minmei being older and Hikaru already being a pilot instead of pulling his circus bit (though that makes his insubordination with Misa less credible, but THAT's another thread). I think almost everyone would agree that the designs are better and more evolved than in SDF. F, G, B levers anyone?

On the subject though, no, I don't think the Zentran would boycott it. After witnessing Guld and how easily the Zentran lose it on M7, I think they'd be more likely to storm the studio that produced it and do a massacre.

And wasn't that "movie" in Macross 7 (staring Basara as Hikaru) a remake, anyway? Maybe a Zentran apologist version? B)

[JB0]

On the subject though, no, I don't think the Zentran would boycott it. After witnessing Guld and how easily the Zentran lose it on M7, I think they'd be more likely to storm the studio that produced it and do a massacre.

YES! That's the REAL zentradi way!

[Keith]

Macross was left open ended for a reason. Yes, Studio Nue did say 2012 was the end of Macross, and in many ways that's true. It's the end of the first storyline, which will never be continued. Hikaru, Misa, & Minmay's stories are over.

FB 2012 also served as a final word on the TV/Movie issue. There we have the DYRL Macross design shown as the 2012 refit design of the Macross, music video's using footage from both, and the overall story following that of the TV series ending, putting into pictures the words of Hikaru, Misa, & Mnmay in the last episode of Macross.

So yes, I firmly believe Nue intended DYRL as a movie within the continuity to begin with. We already have basis for such productions with Shao Pai Loon, and a firm comfirmation with the 1994 continuity affirmations while releasing Macross 7. You have absolutely no basis to argue these facts, just accept them.

[Rand]

How many historical movies we have today that has little or no historical accuracy? There are TONS if supposedly historical movies out there that is complete garbage if you're looking for historical accuracy (Braveheart, Windtalkers, Pearl Harbor, etc.) To say the idea of a "movie-within-a-movie" concept is ridiculous because it bare little resemblance to the TV series IS ridiculous.

Besides, Studio Nue or Kawamori (sp?) could have simply said, "Hey, it's a movie based on the TV series, it's not part of the Macross timeline," or "It's an alternate reality" like they did with Macross II.

They didn't have to say the it's a movie-within-a-movie. They did so because it fits.

[bsu legato]

FB 2012 also served as a final word on the TV/Movie issue. There we have the DYRL Macross design shown as the 2012 refit design of the Macross, music video's using footage from both, and the overall story following that of the TV series ending, putting into pictures the words of Hikaru, Misa, & Mnmay in the last episode of Macross.

The side-by-side appearance of SDF and DYRL footage in music videos in no way supports your contention that DYRL was originally produced as a "movie within the series." And as we all know, nearly ALL post DYRL Macorss productions have used the DYRL designs when depicting the Space War 1 era. And the reconstruction of the Macross could just as easily be construed as a resoration of her DYRL incarnation, as opposed to a complete refit.

We already have basis for such productions with Shao Pai Loon, and a firm comfirmation with the 1994 continuity affirmations while releasing Macross 7.

The fact that they filmed Shao Pai Loon while on the Macross is completely irrelevant, and does not prove anything. Only when Macross 7 was produced was there any attempt to "reconcile" the two versions of the story.

Personally, I think that back in '84, DYRL was just an alternate version of the existing story we saw in SDF. Need I remind everybody that Kawamori has gone on record and stated that he feels that both versions are "real?"

[JsARCLIGHT]

Am I the only one that sees Flashback 2012 as a music video OAV made by the creators of the show so they could cash in and make some more money off the rabid Macross fans?

What is all this "2012 is a defining piece of material that explains all" malarky? It's a freaking music video show! It's purpose is to entertain us with Minmay music and videos. Why does the Macross appear the way it does? Simple. Kawamori liked the DYRL designs more than he liked the TV designs. The only thing I see Flashback 2012 as doing is letting the fanbase know that the old designs have been updated with the ones from DYRL. I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever of it being a "movie in the Macross universe". I agree with Agent One, until I see some facts, i.e. a transcript of an interview with Kawamori or another high ranking Macross creator explicitly saying that DYRL was originally in 1984 intended to be a movie in a future timeline. What you guys are saying in effect is that in 1984 Kawamori and Studio Nue had already concieved of all the future Macross shows and OAVs and knew they where making this movie to be a movie in those future unwritten timelines. I'm not to bright, but the only person I've ever met with the balls to claim something as stupid as that is George Lucas... and when you are King George and have more money than God you can say just about anything you want.

One point I am willing to give is that DYRL was bastardized at a later date for the sake of putting it in Macross 7 to give that dog pile of a show some legitamacy. Who here can honestly say that in 1984 Kawamori was telling himself and his fellow staff at Studio Nue "OK Guys, this big budget big screen adaptation of SDF: Macross we are working on is only one tiny piece of the Macross story, in reality it is an insignifigant movie within a movie being made by these people in the future on a colony ship from earth called Macross 7!"... I seriously bet his fellows would have started checking his coffee for LSD. But if by some drunk chance of fate that was true, WTF is the deal with the movie they where making in Macross 7? If that piece of crap was supposed to be DYRL then it must have gone through a lot of script, director and production changes before being finished. Think of all the CG work needed to make Basara look like Hikaru... or are they now implying that the person we really know as Hikaru in DYRL is in actually an actor named Basara from the future who likes to annoy people with his music?

Head spinning... logic failing... must... kill... self... before... this... evil... corrupts... others...

[treatment]

Exactly what jsarclight said above.

[Agent ONE]

...

So yes, I firmly believe Nue intended DYRL as a movie within the continuity to begin with. We already have basis for such productions with Shao Pai Loon, and a firm comfirmation with the 1994 continuity affirmations while releasing Macross 7. You have absolutely no basis to argue these facts, just accept them.

You have no basis to argue yours either. "I firmly believe," as you say, doesn't mean sh!t to me.

[JB0]

Am I the only one that sees Flashback 2012 as a music video OAV made by the creators of the show so they could cash in and make some more money off the rabid Macross fans?

No.

But then, what Macross entry ISN'T an attempt to make some money off of Macross fans?

The original TV series and... the original TV series.

What is all this "2012 is a defining piece of material that explains all" malarky? It's a freaking music video show! It's purpose is to entertain us with Minmay music and videos.

Thank you.

It really shows nothing that hadn't already been stated in the final episode of the original TV series.

Misa was captain of Megaroad 1. Hikaru was not letting her leave without him.

Minmay asked permission to come along, and was invited by the captain of the mission.

Had Misa said no, she probably would've stayed home out of respect for Misa's wishes(What? Minmay did a LOT of growing in those last few episodes.), but with Misa inviting her along, what's to stop her? The biggest celebrity alive as a passenger on the Megaroad 1 would've been GOOD PR for a project deemed vital to humanity's survival, so we know darn well that no one else involved in the project was going to shoot her down.

It's a GOOD collection of music videos, but it doesn't really add anything to the story.

[TheLoneWolf]

JsARCLIGHT, I couldn't have said it any better.

[Basara Nekki]

Why oh why do peope hate Macross 7? Seriously, it isn't that bad. Is it because of the whole spiritia thing?

[Keith]

Am I the only one that sees Flashback 2012 as a music video OAV made by the creators of the show so they could cash in and make some more money off the rabid Macross fans?

How shallow a view that is. Flash Back 2012 is the final concluding episode to the original Macross story arc. What's more fitting than a montage using Minmay's music? The true story lies in the intro & ending segments.

What is all this "2012 is a defining piece of material that explains all" malarky? It's a freaking music video show! It's purpose is to entertain us with Minmay music and videos. Why does the Macross appear the way it does? Simple. Kawamori liked the DYRL designs more than he liked the TV designs. The only thing I see Flashback 2012 as doing is letting the fanbase know that the old designs have been updated with the ones from DYRL. I see absolutely no evidence whatsoever of it being a "movie in the Macross universe". I agree with Agent One, until I see some facts, i.e. a transcript of an interview with Kawamori or another high ranking Macross creator explicitly saying that DYRL was originally in 1984 intended to be a movie in a future timeline. What you guys are saying in effect is that in 1984 Kawamori and Studio Nue had already concieved of all the future Macross shows and OAVs and knew they where making this movie to be a movie in those future unwritten timelines. I'm not to bright, but the only person I've ever met with the balls to claim something as stupid as that is George Lucas... and when you are King George and have more money than God you can say just about anything you want.

Actually, it's well documented that they "had" already conceived the storyline past the events of the TV series. In early production when it was slated for a 50+ episode run, the story would have went well past the ending that was presented. Being dropped down to 26 episodes killed that, leaving the ending to be the giant battle with the Bodolza fleet around Earth, and then the episode count bump up to 36 episodes wound up leaving things pre-Megaroad launch. Irregardless, it has been stated in interviews that many plot elements from Macross 7 were fleshed out idea's that would have been used in Macross TV's original 50+ episode plotline.

Bottom line, you have no evidence stating that DYRL was ever intended "not" to be a movie within the continuity, while I have evidence that Studio Nue has fully affirmed it to be so. The fact that you don't like the concept doesn't mean a thing.

One point I am willing to give is that DYRL was bastardized at a later date for the sake of putting it in Macross 7 to give that dog pile of a show some legitamacy. Who here can honestly say that in 1984 Kawamori was telling himself and his fellow staff at Studio Nue "OK Guys, this big budget big screen adaptation of SDF: Macross we are working on is only one tiny piece of the Macross story, in reality it is an insignifigant movie within a movie being made by these people in the future on a colony ship from earth called Macross 7!"... I seriously bet his fellows would have started checking his coffee for LSD. But if by some drunk chance of fate that was true, WTF is the deal with the movie they where making in Macross 7? If that piece of crap was supposed to be DYRL then it must have gone through a lot of script, director and production changes before being finished. Think of all the CG work needed to make Basara look like Hikaru... or are they now implying that the person we really know as Hikaru in DYRL is in actually an actor named Basara from the future who likes to annoy people with his music?

Bastardized how? DYRL's placement in the continuity is 15 years before the events in 7. It's even slyly reffered to by Sharon in Plus (4th episode as Myung enters the observation area). If you're referring to the Lin Minmei story (Minmei Video episode of 7), that was an entirely differnet production alltogether. Irregardless, all of Studio Nue had imput in 7, not just Kawamori, and all fully acknowledge, accept, & endorse it. Mayhaps you should "listen to Basara's song." Or at the very least pay enough attention to the series so that you can tell the difference between events & time periods. No wonder you didn't like it, you requrie an attention span to do so.

Head spinning... logic failing... must... kill... self... before... this... evil... corrupts... others...

What you do on your own time is your own business.

[Mr March]

*snip*

Need I remind everybody that Kawamori has gone on record and stated that he feels that both versions are "real?"

Damn, I'd love to bring up all these great points, but other people keep beating me to them

[JsARCLIGHT]

Keith, you keep accusing us of providing no evidence when we keep asking you to proove your point with evidence, you keep failing to post it in your replies. If this where a research report you'd get an F because you keep quoting things and never post any factual proof. Both Agent One and I want to see some form of hard evidence, be it an interview transcript or another form of print media from before Macross cranked out all these sequals that supports your position. Post some links, post some hards facts or shut up. I and Agent One will go away when we can read with our own eyes some unbiased printed interviews that say these things. What I am claiming needs no proof as it is mainly asking for you to proove me wrong, which you have failed to do other than state known facts about the show and warp them to fit your argument.

You claim my views are shallow? IT'S A FARKING CARTOON FOR GOD'S SAKE! IT'S NOT FREAKING REAL! IT, AND ALL IT'S ASSININE CHILDREN WHERE MADE BY SOME JAPANESE PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN ME. I alone choose to watch what I watch and think what I think about it. And I think that this show had wonderful designs and story that showed to be profitable so they just kept cranking things out and worried about how these things fit together when they got to that bridge. People can claim whatever they want about these things but until I see it in print from the horses' mouth it is just scatterbrained fanboy banter to me.

... oh and I'll listen to Basara's song only if I can kill him afterwords.

(Edit to tone down the angry)

Edited September 27, 2003 by JsARCLIGHT

[JB0]

You claim my views are shallow? IT'S A FARKING CARTOON FOR GOD'S SAKE! IT'S NOT FREAKING REAL! IT, AND ALL IT'S ASSININE CHILDREN WHERE MADE BY SOME JAPANESE PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN ME.

LIES! It IS real! It's just running behind schedule from paperwork!

[Zentrandude]

You claim my views are shallow? IT'S A FARKING CARTOON FOR GOD'S SAKE! IT'S NOT FREAKING REAL! IT, AND ALL IT'S ASSININE CHILDREN WHERE MADE BY SOME JAPANESE PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN ME.

LIES! It IS real! It's just running behind schedule from paperwork!

heh why do all the good post end so badly.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Good threads end badly because people get into pissing matches without any PROOF. Heresay and conjecture makes people mad, like me. I'm not trying to flame or rant or bitch and moan about this. BUT I will not back down from this thread and my stance on this issue until I get a link or pic or transcript to gag me.

You guys know me, I'm usually a calm and rational person but this topic struck a nerve with me and I want this hatchet buried once and for all. I will gladly apologize and slink away into the shadows and shut up if I am prooved wrong... with factual doccumented proof, not "what I think I heard someone say a while back".

[Rand]

I get my "facts" on the Macross Compendium Site. I quoted "facts" because I have no real proof if its accurate or not. But can anyone here debunk the Macross Compendium Site? Is that site full of crap? If it is, I'd delete it from my favorite list immediately.

You're looking for print media or an interview as a proof that Kawamori did not intend DYRL as a movie within the continuity. There probably something out there, but unfortunately, I don't read Japanese.

What about you? Can you show proof of an interview of Kawamori saying, "Heh, we just put DYRL in the Macross timeline to make some money." Or is that just your opinion?

If Studio Nue and Kawamori says DYRL is a movie within the continuity, then I believe them, because they're the ones who created this series in the first place.

[JsARCLIGHT]

I'm not out to proove what I'm saying is or isn't true. I'm asking for proof of what is true. There are tons of interviews with Kawamori and Studio Nue people out there in print that have been translated, I've read a lot of them. NONE of the one's I've read has this subject ever been talked about or even hinted at. I want a line drawn to the day and place where someone in creative control of Macross said either on or off the record to any source in print what the status of DYRL PRE MACROSS 7 is. Heck, I'd even take some proof from post Macross 7.

I just want proof. I don't need to proove anything as I am the one asking for proof!

Edit to add: and unless the proof on the Macross Compendium is in the form of a statement from Kawamori credited to him or another member of Studio Nue then it is conjecture and heresay. Heck, 80% of all the stuff in Macross is conjecture and heresay. There are in actuality very few legitimate print materials available for macross information. I will agree that the macross compendium is a good source for macross facts, but some things taken for fact may not be true facts but conjecture based on someone else's input. I am asking for proof from the horse's mouth on this one.

Edited September 28, 2003 by JsARCLIGHT

[EXO]

First of all, I can always respect JsArclight's point of view. His posts are always well thought out and well grounded and for the most part, I usually can agree with him. I also know what he means by sticking to his guns until proved otherwise, because we all here to gain better knowledge of something that we are all fans of, whether or not we take it seriously, casually or fanatically. There's always someone in a place like this who loves to shove the right answer in your face, for reasons unknown. Maybe it's to feel better about themselves, like I said... I have no idea. It would be cool if we can keep the arguments civil and informative, but hey...in the end... I don't really give a crap...

Here's a an essay by Dave Deitrich in which Egan Loo helped straighten out about the Macross timeline. There's no direct quote from Kawamori or Chiba but I would guess if Egan Loo had a hand in it then it can be taken as source.

timeline

As you can see DYRL? is treated as an "entertainment documentary" made in 2031. And there's no mention of DYRL? as part of the official timeline.

Conjecture or official, best thing anyone can do is email Egan Loo, who is always happy to help in cases like this. Though I don't know how many times he's received this email before...

[EXO]

To add, it doesn't say when the official timeline was written, so the Major's original point still remains unanswered.

[Keith]

Keith, you keep accusing us of providing no evidence when we keep asking you to proove your point with evidence, you keep failing to post it in your replies. If this where a research report you'd get an F because you keep quoting things and never post any factual proof.

The proof is in the Macross 7 Laser Disc liner notes as translated by Egan Loo, as is the existence of Flash Back 2012 which is available for "all" to see. Bandai was even kind enough to make their official release R1 compatible, and though out of production, there are plenty of Bootlegs about. Considering Egan is officially endored by both Bandai & Big West, it's safe to assume his translations are correct.

Both Agent One and I want to see some form of hard evidence, be it an interview transcript or another form of print media from before Macross cranked out all these sequals that supports your position. Post some links, post some hards facts or shut up. I and Agent One will go away when we can read with our own eyes some unbiased printed interviews that say these things. What I am claiming needs no proof as it is mainly asking for you to proove me wrong, which you have failed to do other than state known facts about the show and warp them to fit your argument.

I've provided my hard facts, all you provided is your dislike for the concept of DYRL being part of the official continuity as being included as a movie within the series. Hell, you don't even understand the difference between DYRL, and the Lin Minmei Story!

You claim my views are shallow? IT'S A FARKING CARTOON FOR GOD'S SAKE! IT'S NOT FREAKING REAL! IT, AND ALL IT'S ASSININE CHILDREN WHERE MADE BY SOME JAPANESE PEOPLE TO ENTERTAIN ME.

And your views are none the less shallow. You're the one getting your nuts in a knot, not me.

I alone choose to watch what I watch and think what I think about it. And I think that this show had wonderful designs and story that showed to be profitable so they just kept cranking things out and worried about how these things fit together when they got to that bridge. People can claim whatever they want about these things but until I see it in print from the horses' mouth it is just scatterbrained fanboy banter to me.

Your decision to maintain ignorance is well & fine, your insults in place of arguments are expected as well, but blame no one but yourself for them.

... oh and I'll listen to Basara's song only if I can kill him afterwords.

(Edit to tone down the angry)

Who was the one saying what was just a cartoon again?

Heck, 80% of all the stuff in Macross is conjecture and heresay. There are in actuality very few legitimate print materials available for macross information.

Actually, 90% of the Macross continuity is hard fact, just watch the show's & excersize some attention span!

To add, it doesn't say when the official timeline was written, so the Major's original point still remains unanswered.

It's a compilation of Kawamori & Nue staff information compiled from art books & LD/DVD liner notes.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Links? Pics? Printouts? Copies?

Show me. I do not take people's word for things.

Show those items here, in this thread. Not the shows but these liner notes that explain everything, along with their translation.

Proove me wrong and I will shut up.

The only reason I am so upset in this thread is because every time I ask for someone to put some proof in this thread they (aside from EXO) just banter a bunch of stuff and show no evidence.

Think of me as your college english professor. I will not go looking for your sources, I expect you to give them to me with your findings.

Tell you what, show all those facts prooving all this mess right here in this thread via screencap, link, cut and paste I don't care at this point just as long as it has some valid credentials to it and I will shut up and leave you alone.

[TheLoneWolf]

Keith, you keep accusing us of providing no evidence when we keep asking you to proove your point with evidence, you keep failing to post it in your replies. If this where a research report you'd get an F because you keep quoting things and never post any factual proof.

The proof is in the Macross 7 Laser Disc liner notes as translated by Egan Loo, as is the existence of Flash Back 2012 which is available for "all" to see. Bandai was even kind enough to make their official release R1 compatible, and though out of production, there are plenty of Bootlegs about. Considering Egan is officially endored by both Bandai & Big West, it's safe to assume his translations are correct.

Keith, I think JsARCLIGHT is asking for proof the pre-dates 1994 (the year Kawamori and Studio Nue revised the Macross timeline). The Macross 7 LD's were manufactured in 1995 and the Flashback DVD much later. If it's of any use, I have the original 1987 Flashback laserdisc with linear notes. If anyone's willing to translate it, I'd be more than happy to scan it.

[Keith]

As I said, "WATCH THE FREAKIN' THING" The best proof is in the animation itself. The fact that Studio Nue officially backs up the animation affirms it. The proof is in the existence of Flash Back 2012, the existence of Macross 7, etc.

I thought we left the days of idiots coming down & arguing against well known facts just because they liked to argue when we moved here from AFM!

Edited September 28, 2003 by Keith

[Roy Focker]

Cough, Cough

[bsu legato]

Keith, merely repeating "FB2012" ad nauseum does not prove anything. If there is proof in your claims in Flashback, then you have to cite it. Invoking the name itself does nothing to support your argument. Like I said earlier, the the coexistance of SDF and DYRL footage in music videos does absolutely nothing to prove your claims. Nor does the reconstruction of the Macross in the new footage at the end of Flashback prove anything. So if there's some insight to be gleaned from FB2012's new footage, then please enlighten us, o wise one.

[JsARCLIGHT]

(notices that we are obviously drawing attention)

This is my last post in this thread. And Keith, NO the proof is NOT in the animation as the animation is a reflection of the present and it could have easily been altered by the creators to place in elements that where not originally intended to be there just to bolster their story. We are none the wiser. "Watch the animation", that is a COP OUT answer. To me, Kawamori changed the nature of DYRL at a later date so he could fit it in the Macross 7 story. Until you provide PROOF that DYRL was always meant to be that from the day of it's birth you will always have us in your face. I want those liner notes you hold as such high truth posted here and any other interview print materials (of the times Kawaori or Studio Nue big wigs alone said that DYRL was a movie in the timeline before Macross 7). I know someone in my office who is japanese and can translate them for me and I'll then counterpost the translations if you don't have them. Please post them as we all want to know.

Lone Wolf, thank you for your offer. Please scan them and post them here if you have them, I'm sure by now EVERYONE wants a legitimate answer on this subject.

But one thing this thread has shown me is that proof is apparently out there but the opposition for some reason would rather call me names than post it. Of course you know by now, I am really an idoit for blindly accusing the great Kawamori and everything Macross of not being the best thing since sliced bread and somehow insinuating that he is a mere mortal that may have changed his story to accomodate future projects is just automatically wrong. Is it so heathen and evil of me to ask these things? Am I "beating this to death"? Am I "arguing for argument's sake"? No. I am asking for proof to this issue so we can all understand this better and only a handfull of people have ponied up.

[Phyrox]

Uh, I for one had always thought it was accepted that DYRL was created to be an alternate telling of a familiar story...

and that it was "retconned" at a later date.

certainly nothing in this thread has done anything to change my mind.

[EXO]

Uh, I for one had always thought it was accepted that DYRL was created to be an alternate telling of a familiar story...

and that it was "retconned" at a later date.

That's my feeling as well. I don't think we'll find anything in English that says that DYRL? was originally conceived as a movie from the starting point.

Here's another essay that Egan Loo had a helping hand in, so take from it what you will...

I have highlighted the interesting parts in red so that it may help in this situation...

source

  Macross Plus FAQ

  Since the release of this show, we have quite a few people asking

  what the show is all about, including the question "...but where does

  that leave Macross II?  And what about Macross 7?"

  Usually, this happens about a few days right after I post a response,

  forcing me to post again. ;

  Well, not anymore.  I got tired of typing up a response each time

  someone asks for info, so I compiled the info available so far and wrote

  this FAQ.

  Thanks to Egan Loo and others for providing the background info

  on the various Macross installments.

-- 8

1. Where does Macross Plus fit in?  Where does that leave the

  movie and Macross II?

  Title    Release Date

  -----    ------------

  Chou Jikuu Yousai Macross  Oct 3, 1982 - Jun 26, 1983

  Chou Jikuu Yousai Macross

    Ai - Oboete Imasuka  Jul 7, 1984 (Jul 25 wide release)

  The Super Dimension Fortress

Macross [the Movie]:

Love, Do You Remember

  Chou Jikuu Yousai Macross

Flash Back 2012  Jun 27, 1987

  The Super Dimension Fortress

Macross Flashback 2012

  Chou Jikuu Yousai Macross II:

Lovers, Again    May 21, 1992 - Nov 21, 1992

  The Super Dimension Fortress

Macross II Lovers, Again

  Macross II [Gekijouhan]  1993*

  Macross Plus    Aug 25, 1994 - Spr 1995

    (rescheduled)

  Macross 7    Oct 16, 1994 -

  Macross Plus [Gekijouhan]  1995 (scheduled)

  Macross [Jissha Eiga]  Summer 1996 (scheduled)

  * never released in Japan

  Macross Chronology

  Continuity A - TV timeline

  --------------------------

  1999-2012  The Super Dimension Fortress Macross

  2012  The Super Dimension Fortress Macross

    Flash Back 2012

    (music video of farewell concert)

  2031  Theatrical Release of Macross - Ai, Oboete Imasuka

    (based on events in 1999-2012)

  2040  Macross Plus

  2045-  Macross 7

  2046-  Macross 7 Trash

  Parallel World  The Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Lovers, Again

  Continuity B - Movie Timeline

  -----------------------------

  2009  Macross - Ai, Oboete Imasuka (Love, Do You Remember?)

  (movie based on the TV war)

  2012  Flash Back 2012 (music video of farewell concert)

  80yrs later Super Dimensional Fortress Macross II: Lovers Again (OVA)

  As you can see, the movie and Macross II have been bumped to form

  a so-called parallel world.

  Let's put it this way.  We Real Lifers ™ look at Macross TV and

  say "Wow, a SF anime." 

  Macross TV people look at Macross the movie and say, "Cool, a movie

  based on our experiences during the war (the tv war, that is)."

  But actually, both timelines are more or less "valid."  Confusing?

  You bet.  Just enjoy the show.

2. Ok, so now I know how Macross Plus fits in with the other Macross

  stories.  What's it about?

  Story thus far (in a nutshell):

  Two new Valkyrie test fighters, the YF-19 and the YF-21, are being

  bid to the UN Spacy.

  The two test pilots are former friends, and now rivals/enemies.  They

  share a love interest in Myung, a manager for the virtual singer,

  Sharon Apple.  Years back, something happened that got between the

  threesome; the trio's relationship now is awkward at best.

  Isam is very much the Top Gun fighter jock type - cocky and confident,

  he's an excellent pilot, and his dogfighting skills are top notch.

  He's also very reckless and has a very casual attitude towards his

  wingmen, which is what gets him reassigned to test pilot duty.  Isam

  doesn't seem to mind at all; he loves to fly.

  Guld has a micronized Zentradi father and a Human mother.  He's the test

  pilot for the civilian enterprise, General Galaxy, and flies the YF-21. 

  Usually much more calmer than Isam, he tries too hard to be the cold,

  detached type, but is prone to bursts of anger (especially around

  Isam).  His duties in the YF-21 seems to further compound this (more

  about this later).

  Myung is the manager for the popular virtual singer, Sharon Apple, who

  made her debut in 2039 (the actual story takes place in 2040). 

  Virtual as in, Sharon's not human.  She's basically a robot/AI.

  Myung has had a tragic experience (won't go into what - go watch the

  video!), and now both Isam and Guld blame each other for what happened

  to her.

  Tech info:

  VF-11C "Thunderbolt"

  Fighter with canard and variable-sweep wings

(White with orange/black trim)

  Standard-issue fighter mecha of the UN Spacy (2040s)

    - Directly descended from the VF-1 Valkyrie.

  Length Overall:  15.51 m (Fighter mode)

  Height Overall:  12.96 m (Battroid mode

    w/o Super Booster Pack attachment)

  Standard T-O Weight: 9 MT

  Engine Output:  28.5 MT x 2

  Armament and Options:

Rear anti-aircraft pulse laser cannon x 1,

    anti-projectile shield x 1, multi-purpose gunpod x 1,

    space Super Booster Pack attachment,

atmospheric single-use rocket attachment, others

  The VF-11 Thunderbolt is the standard-issue fighter of the 2040s.

  The Thunderbolt can accomodate either a Super booster system or an

  atmospheric single-use twin rocket-booster system.

  YF-19

  Prototype fighter with swept-forward wings

(White with red/black trim)

  Test pilot: Dyson, Isam

  Length Overall:  18.62 m (Fighter mode)

  Wingspan:  14.87 m (Fighter mode)

  Height Overall:  3.94 m (Fighter mode)

  Standard T-O Weight: 8.759 MT

  Engine Output:  64.7 MT x 2 (Space)

    42.7 MT x 2 (Atmosphere)

  Maximum Speed:  Mach 5.1+ (Level flight at 10,000 m above sea level)

    Mach 24+ (Above 30,000 m)

  Armament and Options:

Rear anti-aircraft laser cannon x 1, anti-projectile shield x 1,

gunpod x 1, others

  Not too much is known about the YF-19 at this point; wait till OVA

  episode 2, I suppose. =P

  YF-21

  Prototype fighter with trapezoidal combined stabilizers

(Blue w/ yellow trim)

  Company: General Galaxy

  Test Pilot: Bowmann, Guld Goa

  Engines: New Chuushuu Industries/P&W/Royce FF2450B x 2

  Auxiliary Engines: P&W HMM-6J high-maneuverability vernier thrusters

  Length Overall:  19.62 m (Fighter mode)

  Wingspan:  15.36 m (Fighter mode)

  Height Overall:  4.04 m (Fighter mode)

  Standard T-O Weight: 9.55 MT

  Maximum T-O Weight:  48.305 MT (in space with fold booster attachment)

  39.207 MT (in atmosphere)

  Engine Output:  65.2 MT x 2 (Space)

  41.2 MT x 2 (Atmosphere)

  Maximum Speed:  Mach 5.06+ (Level flight at 10,000 m above sea level)

  Mach 25+ (Above 30,000 m for 8.1 km)

  Maximum Rate of Climb at Sea Level:

  61500 m/min.

  Minimum T-O Distance:

  0 m (VTOL capable)

  Maximum G Tolerance:

  +32.5, -17.2

  Maximum Attainable Height From Sea Level:

  21500 m

  Armament and Options:

(Fixed)

Elicon AAB-7.5 super-minature atmospheric anti-aircraft

laser gun placement x 1, Mauler REB-22 semi-fixed beam cannon x 2,

Howard PBS-03F pin-point barrier system (for fighter mecha use) x 1

(Internal)

Biforce BML-02 YF-21 exclusive rapid-fire micro-missile launcher x 2

(External)

Howard/General new standard cartridge-less gatling gunpod x 1,

hard point x 4, special attachment hard point x 1

  Fold Booster: New Chuushuu Industries/Ortech FBF-1000A fold booster

(for fighter mecha use)

  [Note: MT, in this case, means metric tons, while T-O means takeoff.

  Specifications assume Earth-like testing conditions such as those that

  exist on Planet Eden.

  Before anyone jumps to any conclusions and assumes that the YF-21

  overwhelms the YF-19 in terms of firepower and raw capabilities,

  remember that the full stats on the YF-19 have not been reported yet.

  Opinions: Mr. Iyadomi wasn't kidding when he said this is an

  international animation. Isam's Japanese-Caucasian, Guld's

  Zentradi-Human, and Myung's Chinese-Caucasian. Heck, even the YF-21's

  engines are made by Japanese, American, and British aerospace giants.

  Well, former ones. =P]

  The YF-21 is the other top contender, sporting a slew of radical

  improvements over the previous Valkyrie fighters.  It has a tremendous

  thruster output -- the YF-21 regularly outruns a VF-11, even

  with additional booster attachments on the latter.  The usual

  complement of missiles are there, and the guns are mounted on its fore-

  arms, although the YF-21 is still slated for a gunpod attachment.

  We still haven't seen the pin-point barrier system in action yet.

  More notable is the thought control system, which basically integrates

  the pilot and the Valkyrie into one.  The wings have no flaps, instead

  being shape-adaptive, and respond to the pilot's "imagination."  All

  Guld has to do is imagine spreading his fingers out on his hands, and

  the wings increase in width.  By twisting his "feet" around (in his

  mind, that is), the pilot can control the nozzles on the thrusters as

  well.  The cameras mounted on the plane become his "eyes;" Guld keeps

  his eyes closed during flight, seeing everything thru the camera feedback,

  which is fed directly into his optical nerve system.  This also allows

  for arbitrary choice of the spectrum - visible light, infrared, thermo-

  graph, x-ray vision, etc.

  The thought control system goes so far as to allow the pilot to imagine

  a scenario/situation, which the control system picks up and interprets

  into suitable commands.  This is made evident when Guld imagines himself

  soaring straight into the sky -- the place just goes ahead and _does_ it,

  going from 0 to breaking the sound barrier in a vertical (speak: 90

  degrees) climb -- in 4 seconds flat. 

  Unfortunately, it also seems to pick up ramdom thoughts of the pilot

  and interprets those as well.  After being rescued by Isam after a

  plunge, Guld imagines how nice it would be if his plane were to force

  Isam's VF-11 into the ground, eliminating Isam as a pilot and

  contender.  Lo and behold, the plane picks up the imagination of

  the scene, and forces Isam's Valkyrie into the ground, trashing it

  badly.  Even Guld is surprised that the plane picked it up; as far as

  he's concerned it was a thought, not a direct order.

  The thought control system also puts a sizeable strain on the pilot,

  apparently, as Guld sometimes has trouble using his hands and takes

  medication to control his nervous spasms.

3. Ok, I'll go watch the video.  Tell me something about Macross 7.

 

  The Macross 7 Fleet's flagship is made of two "blocks," Battle 7 and City

  7.  Battle 7 is front-end battleship which can separate from the City

  block (a la Star Trek's Enterprise-D).  It has at least 6 catapult

  launches on its forward deck and massive thrusters in the stern. However,

  the City 7 block dwarves Battle 7 with its multiple-layer bulbous form.

  It looks like a daikon radish after it's been in a microwave a few

  milliseconds too long.  It is one of 7 such city ships in the fleet whose

  total population is approximately 1 million people.

  Characters:

  Some magazines say Milene is the Fire Bomber's lead singer, and others

  say Basara is. The band hasn't had a major debut, but through live house

  performances, its popularity has grown. Besides playing the keyboards,

  Ray Lovelock is the band leader, music arranger, and a "nice guy." The

  members of the Fire Bomber band (except Milene, presumably) live in a

  literally bad part of town called Akujo.

  Max's hairstyle has subtly changed; I won't spoil the surprise. =P Out

  Magazine suggests that Milene may be only child that Max and Miria

  brought on board the Mac 7 Fleet. Some mags say Milene is the 7th

  daughter and others say that the parents had 7 kids, but none

  specifically say that 7 kids are all daughters. Milene joined the Fire

  Bomber band against her parents' wishes. By the way, Miria happens to be

  mayor of City 7.

  Mecha:

 

  The common designation for the "stealth" VF-17D mecha is Nightmare. I

  don't know about you, but that brings to my mind a certain fantasy novel

  and certain present-day fighter plane unofficially nicknamed Nighthawk.

  Kawamori says in a B-Club interview that the recent public disclosures of

  stealth technology have influenced his current designs (IMHO, a little

  too much, but that's okay).

  The Varauta Fleet (and one of its pilots, Gigil) uses a gargantuan,

  top-heavy purple mecha that doesn't look too different from the original 

  movie's Meltrandi female power suit or some of Mac II's Marduk designs.

  But hey, for the first time in Macross, the enemy mecha transform! It

  apparently has only a human form (term used loosely) and flying form. It

  is designated Elgarzoln [Erugaazorun] FZ-109F.

-- end of file --

--

                                  Keith Rhee 

                A boss says "Go." -- A leader says "Let's go."

                              quattro@netcom.com

As you can see, it was suggested that the "bumping" of these 2 storylines may have happened at a later date, not at the time they were conceived. I believe that is what the argument was originally about. Not whether or not it's official.

Interesting note, is the author of this essay a member in MW?...

[JsARCLIGHT]

Now we are getting somewhere. Thank you EXO.

EXO provided his proof and his source for everyone to read. This is the kind of factual proof we need to clear this up.

[Vinny]

I'll let you guys get back to arguing, but if anyone should boycott Do You Remember Love? it should of been Kakazaki's family for the mistreatment of his character!!!!!! That is, if his family survived the whole planet destruction ordeal

[CAG]

Well if they're anything like Kakizaki, they probably didn't.

[hellohikaru]

Why is Kakizaki such a popular cannon fodder ?

[ewilen]

(a) They probably did, since it's strongly implied, if not stated, that they are on the Macross when Hikaru has to writing that hardest of letters to write in the TV episode following his death.

(B) Somehow I think the conclusion of this thread is relevant to the question of why sources and attributions are important.

Edited September 29, 2003 by ewilen