MZero Ep. 5 *SPOILER THREAD*

[Achilles2ca]

What would be really funny is if Zero turned out to never be referred to again

No, that wouldn't be funny, it would be happy

:-P

[Roy's Blues]

Attention!

The Macross Zero OST 2 is up on Suprnova.org as of yesterday.

/runs away from anti-piracy advocates

[Prime]

Attention!

The Macross Zero OST 2 is up on Suprnova.org as of yesterday.

/runs away from anti-piracy advocates

Excuse my ignorance, but what is OST 2?

[AlphaHX]

Attention!

The Macross Zero OST 2 is up on Suprnova.org as of yesterday.

/runs away from anti-piracy advocates

Excuse my ignorance, but what is OST 2?

Original SoundTrack

[Kamion]

I must say that I'm a bit lost on the whole Mac Zero storyline... and so is my Japanese friend. At first I thought maybe something's getting lost in the translation... but apparantly not.

[nhyone]

Is the discussion on Macross Zero over? Did I miss the boat?

I didn't start downloading until episode 5 is out, and I must say even watching all 5 episodes in one go, it's a pretty short show, especially if you take out all the fights.

One question: why is Hasford with the anti-UN? Is he trying to end the world?

Personally, I think the only reason Roy Focker was in Macross Zero is to have a proven ace pilot.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

From what I've gathered

-Anti-un want bird to awaken (but more likely because they think they can control it)

-UN want to capture bird for themselves, but will destroy bird if anti-un manages to get control of it. They are probably worried that the anti-un are ahead of them in the use of transforming mechs as it is. The legend about how the heads get close and closer as more people fight, could probably be interpreted as saying: "as the world is split into two sides and they fight against each other, the chances of both head and body coming together increases as the race for better technology speeds up and certain men gains knowledge of the bird human legend." (this happens when sara gave hasford all the secrets when she was a kid, which she shouldn't have done)

-Hasford probably doesn't care and wants to awaken bird since he is a little nutty and irresponsible. He doesn't differentiate between the song of destruction or song of creation because he tells sara that creation and destruction are merely the two faces of god. Whatever happens, according to the prophecy the world should be recreated and reborn from the ashes of the destruction. (a new age will begin after everything is cleared first - kind of like a biblical flood which kills off the bad influences gaining too much control, but saving a few) Maybe he believes the song will evolve the race or something, because of the 'pc made humans' theory he holds. (although it is only a theory, right? with some still believing in sdf:macross it was a little genetic manipulation and not creation. We are still intelligent apes but the aliens may have changed a few things)

But I theorised that all these prophetic events are not going to happen in zero (thanks to shin saving the day) and really took place in sdf:macross. This is all based on the idea that it is during the end of sw I when the earth comes to an end and the earth is destroyed by the zentradi. The afos leaves in m0, sparing us for a time but it is a foreshadowing of events for what will happen in the future. Others have mentioned that the afos is more like a machine that can be controlled by sara so it would help explain why it just vanished instead of fully completing its task. (possibly because of the radiation would endanger more people?)

Shin manages to postpone what is inevitable by preventing sara from using the bird to wipe out everything. In the paintings which hasford shows Aries in episode 4, Hasford tells us the full story: The bird human cut its head off because it went against orders from Procacha: the god of the heavens, to destroy us. It prevented the destruction from happening in earlier times, giving the human race some hope and an extra chance as the next race to succeed the pc.

I guess you could say, this is exactly what sara did: Sara did NOT listen to her father, did NOT pass the test of taking bribe from Hasford, and did NOT keep the secrets of the legend from the outside world, otherwise why would hasford say: "you broke the rule to tell me that sara don't you remember?.." and this is why she is so obsessed with petty rules. She secretly feels guilty about having broken the rule given to her and now has to except that she screwed up big time. Sara broke the rules like the bird human did, and through love maybe forgiveness for our imperfections is the reason why we still survived? It is not stated exactly why the bird human cut its head off in the legend so I say: It's love. Remember too, that Sara's dad asked hasford to test her. Maybe her dad knew that thier civilisation was reaching the end times and wanted a sign, knowing the prophecy would come true one day. Thier secrets couldn't remain secret forever. The God Procacha probably knew better than the bird human and wanted this experiment to end quickly knowing that humans will never stop fighting and chances are slim. But the bird human clinged to the hope there were enough good guys still, so it beheaded itself.

I still don't know what the first human Rooy Kanu and first female Rooy Waka is all about. We hear the voice of a ghost in an earlier episode where Sara is being spied upon by aries to record any strange phenomena, so it's probably a spirit of some dead guy.

Edited November 14, 2004 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[Keith]

Spirit of some dead guy? No, that's the same voice as the birdman.

As for Hassford, he believes the world is in need of a new start, which is why he probably duped the Anti-U.N. into instigating the incident.

[Gwynne]

Maybe its that they weren't concerned with humanity at all, they were just making sure that they didn't accidentally create another army that would go after them.

Bingo. As far as the PC is concerned, humans can slaughter each other as much as they like, but once they threaten to extend their conflicts into the rest of the galaxy, they need to be stopped. (Rewatch the AFOS's quizzing of Sara, around 17 minutes into the episode.)

I'm not saying that the Macross should have instantly triggered a response, but if APHOS is there to pass judgement on humanity's progress and it's connected to the Wind Priestesses, shouldn't the APHOS have sensed that humanity was going down the tubes quite quickly, thanks to the UN/Anti-UN global conflict, and that the end game was fast approaching?

Somewhere in the OAV, somebody says that the head and the body have been getting closer to each other over the years, whenever there's too much fighting.

It just seems off to me that the barometer for the doomsday machine is on a far flung island in the middle of nowhwere.  To me its like the PC drew a line in the sand and said "you can blow everything up on this planet, but not THIS ISLAND; that would be bad...oh, and don't kill the priestesses' boyfriend."

As others have said, the AFOS isn't programmed to make decisions completely on its own. Responsibility for the ultimate decision and judgment has been passed down in Sara's family through the aeons. Notice that Mao says at one point that the AFOS doesn't really want to kill everyone (and she seems to have some insight due to the blood transfusion and the rebirth ritual). Sara is possessed by the AFOS in the sense that she no longer sees things through human eyes, but it's still her, and her emotions, that are guiding the AFOS's actions.

I agree with all of this and to me it makes sense. It really is a good story because it shows how the people on earth, protoculture, and the zentradi are all related, which they touch on in SDF Macross but never explain it all. I like Zero. But the end when shin flys away just confuses me. It seems they went with the happy ending instead of a more realistic and tragic ending. To me shin would have been a great hero if he did die in the end to save earth.

[Radd]

I took it as a bittersweet ending, really. I mean, after AFOS is hit by the nukes, you can see the "cockpit" bubble where Sarah was. It's smashed in, brown, and looks to be devoid of life. I don't think she survived. If she is indeed alive, it's not as we know it.

Shin's end and Sarah's ghostly appearance I see in the same sort of light, as a flowery way of killing him off.If he is alive, somewhere out there, I again don't think it would be our typical idea of living.

The sad tone of the music at the end left me feeling this way about the ending, too. The world was saved, or at least obtained a temporary reprieve, but this end did not come without it's price.

Grok?

[VF-1Guy]

I recently watched 1-5 and really enjoyed it. I felt there was a big gap between 4&5, but not so much that I couldn't quickly put the pieces together.

[vanpang]

I just managed to finish Macross Zero Ep 5. Like most of you, I wished they did a better to bridge Ep 4 and Ep 5. It just doesn't make any sense, in Episode 4, we were left with a cliff hanger of the anti-un bombing the jungles. And Sara and Shin was no where near Aries and Roy. All of a sudden in Ep 5, Roy and Shin were resuced by the UN forces but Sara and Aries were captured ! What gives ? Wish they did a better job with the bridging of the episodes !

On the hand, the dog fighting scenes were superb, I really like the battle scenes of Shin/Nora and DD/Roy. However I find a bit far fetch that Shin's battle skills have improved significantly after getting trashed by Nora so many times. But the fact he is on a mission to rescue Sara has increased his battle potential ?

[polidread]

with the exception of the badly drawn Shin and Roy in the first few minutes of MacZero5, ive no complaints about the OAV series' outcome.

[Prime]

Indeed. I think overall it was a great series in the end.

[Roycommi]

I thought it was a good Anime. Had nothing to do with Macross but a good anime series...

[Radd]

Had nothing to do with Macross

I really do not get these statements.

[AlphaHX]

Had nothing to do with Macross

I really do not get these statements.

Dunno but they should come with a "definition" of Macross.

[Keith]

Had nothing to do with Macross

I really do not get these statements.

I don't either, it's best to just let them go...

[Noyhauser]

Had nothing to do with Macross

I really do not get these statements.

Did I not post two pages ago why it was more macross along macross's real meaning than say macross plus?

Do people not read?

[Roycommi]

Had nothing to do with Macross

I really do not get these statements.

Did I not post two pages ago why it was more macross along macross's real meaning than say macross plus?

Do people not read?

Your oponion, No I dont read that.

[Radd]

My thing is, Macross Zero features writing and designs by the creator of Macross, a major character from the original Macross, it takes place in the Macross universe, it has all the major themes of Macross and even gives a bit more backstory on some of the elements of Macross (a lot about the Protoculture, and even a more developed reason as to how Roy goes from womanizer to pretty much ready to settle down), how can anyone say it has nothing to do with Macross?

[AlphaHX]

Had nothing to do with Macross

I really do not get these statements.

Did I not post two pages ago why it was more macross along macross's real meaning than say macross plus?

Do people not read?

Your oponion, No I dont read that.

You dont read opinions on this forum? What do you read then?

Last time I checked, most of the posts here are opinions.

Someone should come up with a definite of "Macross" one of these days.

[Prime]

Someone should come up with a definite of "Macross" one of these days.

Transforming planes/robots + music + magic + baked Hory Froating Head = Macross

[ewilen]

"Magic" in SDF Macross/DYRL and M+ is highly debatable. (Evidence: the debate we had upthread.)

Just about every Macross has some kind of romantic triangle, although MZero's ended up being quite weak.

Most Macrosses have an antiwar theme, and a high percentage also have the concept of an entire city travelling in space.

[Valkyrie Nut]

Just watched M0 from start to finish for the first time yesterday. It was very nicely done in my opinion, though I didn't like how the plot kind of "jumped" in ep 4. The ending was definately strange and I think I'll have to watch the series a second time to get it

Edited November 22, 2004 by Valkyrie Nut

[Radd]

"Magic" in SDF Macross/DYRL and M+ is highly debatable. (Evidence: the debate we had upthread.)

Just about every Macross has some kind of romantic triangle, although MZero's ended up being quite weak.

Most Macrosses have an antiwar theme, and a high percentage also have the concept of an entire city travelling in space.

I'd say "magic" in both Macross 7 and Macross Zero is debatable as well.

[polidread]

Someone should come up with a definite of "Macross" one of these days.

Transforming planes/robots + music + magic + baked Hory Froating Head = Macross

come to think of it, the holy birdman's head did a lot of floating and singing and destroying in MacZero...

was that Mr. Kawamori making another cameo in his anime?

[ewilen]

I'd say "magic" in both Macross 7 and Macross Zero is debatable as well.

Thus the quotes. If anyone can come up with a better term than "magic" which concisely expresses the concept of "freaky stuff that looks like magic but can be (and sometimes is) explained as scientific phenomena based on principles that current science can barely guess at", it would be helpful.

Because the debates clearly fracture along the lines of

a) Is the "stuff" we see in MZero and M7 "magic", "supernatural", "hypertechnological", or what?

b) Does that "stuff" appear in SDF Macross/DYRL/M+ ?

[Prime]

"Magic" in SDF Macross/DYRL and M+ is highly debatable. (Evidence: the debate we had upthread.)

I was using the term "magic" in jest, since as you point out there have been debates about it already.

[ewilen]

Ah, a little too subtle...I thought the "baked Hory Froating Head" was the only joke.

[RichterX]

Woohoo!

Thanks giving break and I will finally be able to see all 5 episodes one after the other.

[Radd]

I'd say "magic" in both Macross 7 and Macross Zero is debatable as well.

Thus the quotes. If anyone can come up with a better term than "magic" which concisely expresses the concept of "freaky stuff that looks like magic but can be (and sometimes is) explained as scientific phenomena based on principles that current science can barely guess at", it would be helpful.

Because the debates clearly fracture along the lines of

a) Is the "stuff" we see in MZero and M7 "magic", "supernatural", "hypertechnological", or what?

b) Does that "stuff" appear in SDF Macross/DYRL/M+ ?

You forgot a choice, at least in the case of M7

d) None of the above, we simply see music doing what music does all around us every day. The glowing lights and whatnot being simply embellishments just like hearing sound in space.

[ewilen]

What about the sound boosters, and the "beam shots" that hit the enemy?

And Dr. Chiba's sound detection system, not to mention his whole theory of sound energy?

And Dr. Chiba actually seeing the "triangle" formed by visible sound energy at one of Firebomber's concerts?

[Radd]

What about the sound boosters

What about them?

and the "beam shots" that hit the enemy?

What about clearly heard sounds in space?

And Dr. Chiba's sound detection system, not to mention his whole theory of sound energy?

There's similar real world theories. Lots of people say various kinds of music help us learn, help us concentrate, give us energy, motivate us, demoralize us, help plants grow, etcetera. The show is actually fairly vague when it comes to the specifics of just what Dr. Chiba's theories are, delivering the premise in broad, general terms. The sound detection system could either be taken quite literally, in wich the explanation would be very easy and I don't imagine I need to explain further, or it could be related to the energy music gives us, and he somehow developed a technology that could measure that. In the latter case the technology to measure such energy would be "hypertechnological" by our standards, just as much as giant transforming robots, but still based on the not so far out idea that music can energize us.

And Dr. Chiba actually seeing the "triangle" formed by visible sound energy at one of Firebomber's concerts?

I think I recall the episode you're talking about, did he actually see the triangle with his bare eyes, or was he looking into a monitor or something that was most likely augmented with his own equipment?

[Keith]

You want a word? How about biotechnology. A way of "naturalling" doing what we can only currently do with mechanical technology.

In Macross 7, sound is never "heard" in space. The Sound Energy (Anime Spiritia) phenomenon is first generated by the individual, converted to a form which is usable by mechanical technology with the converter vests, and then amplified by the Sound Boosters. The specific mechanics of how it all works is only known to Chiba.