NoNameSt11

People keep citing statistics regarding Alto's reticence like, "But Alto never kissed her!" But they keep ignoring WHY Alto never kissed her. Sheryl gives him mixed signals up through episode 22. Every time she acts in a forward manner toward him, she then clams up again and mocks him for suspecting that she might like him. The classic example is episode 10, but there are plenty of other instances. And when she even SUSPECTS that Alto might be making a move on her, she reacts in a defensive manner (case in point, episode 17 when he finds her collapsed outside SMS and smuggles her into his cabin while she's unconscious). So OF COURSE Alto isn't going to try and kiss her instead. Why do people keep ignoring the effect of Sheryl's own actions to discourage Alto? Sheryl does nearly as much to discourage Alto as she does to encourage him, but we never hear anyone argue, "But Sheryl doesn't really like Alto!" or "We can't really be sure if Sheryl likes Alto!"

Open your eyes, people!

Besides, given the way that the scene fades out in episode 22, it's 90% certain that Alto sleeps with her. There are certain scene indicators that you recognize when you've been around long enough. And a scene change with the camera rising away from a couple in privacy toward the night sky is pretty much as big of a clue as a train traveling into a dark tunnel used to be back in the old days of film. Or in other words, Alto did a lot more than just kiss the girl. Just because you didn't see Sheryl naked doesn't mean that the writers didn't blatantly telegraph it. The scene ending tells us, "There's more going on here, but we're going to give the couple their privacy."

So unless you somehow think they stayed up all night playing pinochle, then it's pretty clear that the two of them slept together.

Given the way that things work out, the only time that it might be appropriate for Alto to kiss her would be from episode 23 onward. Unfortunately, in episode 23 Sheryl falls asleep right after their shared dinner, meaning that all that Alto was able to do was to take her upstairs, tuck her in, and go home. Episode 24 has Alto visit her... and Sheryl basically tells him, "Don't tell me whether or not you like me because regardless of the answer I won't be able to do my job." So once again, Alto doesn't have an opportunity to express his feelings.

imo, the answer has been pretty clear since the end of episode 20. Alto talks to Sheryl on the roof, Ranka bursts through the door, bursts into tears, and then runs away. And Alto doesn't run after her. As far as I'm concerned, that's the end of the argument.

The end of episode 25? It's only something that he's been waiting several years to do (episode 12 doesn't count since his plane was brought down). The girls can wait a few minutes. I mean, it's not like he wasn't just talking to Sheryl thirty minutes earlier or something...

Earring/Sniper Rifle - Um, yeah. Actually, it was Clan's sniper rifle at that point. But that's beside the point. If you think that the earring wasn't important, then you need to rekindle a little romance in your soul.

Sniper Rifle - useful instrument of destruction that is capable of blowing holes in heavily armored targets.

Earring - A token of his girlfriend and a sign of her affections. Also has a secondary function of allowing someone to tap into fold wave communications, but Alto and Sheryl clearly aren't thinking about that when she loans it to him.

Assuming they slept together, which I doubt happened, it doesn't mean that he's romantically interested in her. People don't always sleep with somebody because they want a relationship. The roof scene, where Sheryl goes to talk to HIM and Ranka trips a few steps away doesn't mean he cares more for Sheryl. He doesn't get the chance to chase after her immediately because the Vajra show up right after she fell. I don't see how you can just shrug off the ending to the series as "oh he's waiting a few minutes". He didn't pick either. The ear-ring was a device to allow him to save Ranka, not some huge love token given to Alto by Sheryl. He didn't choose Sheryl or Ranka at the end, and shipperfags like you ruin the enjoyment of a series by constantly pushing your favored pairing acting like it's fact. Stop it.

WHO WAS SINGING!?!?!

Everyone.

Macross FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I feel kinda cheated that it was a "yay everyone lives happy ending all the way around". Wasn't it supposed to be different from every other Kawamori piece? And although it felt really rushed, I won't say it was bad. Just not what I was hoping for.

I'm pretty sure Ranka's not directly being controlled by someone else at this point---much more like brain-washing.

Though I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grace tries to literally control/possess Ranka----we know that it's Ranka's voice that's the key, and it's due to her infection/genetics, not her "skill" as a singer---so Grace knows that if she truly wants to have control, she'll need Ranka's voice. And if Grace has hacked the vajra network or whatever, and they're all linked and compatible, then maybe Grace can download herself into a new body again--Ranka's, via her gut crystals. Grace is ambitious enough to not be content with merely ordering Ranka to do what Grace wants.

Higher nodes in the network hold an influence over lesser nodes, so brain-washing does sound better. However, I don't think Grace will possess her because she's aiming to replace the Queen. Ranka's the cipher to decode the vajra network allowing Grace to take control, not so much the leader of it.

While time travel would be rather outlandish, Bilrer's comment could refer to something similar. Fold waves may behave like light and travel long distances without fading away. If this is true, then fold waves from somebody who can communicate through them could be intercepted years after they were originally broadcast. In a way, their message/personality/feelings would exist through all sense of space and time. Also of note is that the vajra network has been shown to amplify fold waves, ie: Ranka's song.

Now going out on an EXTREME limb here (aka: I really don't think this will happen), the preview for 25 says a mysterious figure shows up on the performance bridge of Battle Frontier. Minmei performed on a similar stage many years ago, so while her showing up in person may be impossible a "fold shadow" of her or some other performer MAY make an appearance. But this is a wild speculation that I'm doubtful of happening, mainly because she hasn't exhibited any ability to create fold waves. However, it could also be a "fold shadow" of Ranshe Mei singing Aimo because we know she was infected and sang the lullaby to Ranka as a child.

Back to Episode 24 discussion...

I watched gg subs version of the Episode... Finally it has been finally confirmed that Grace wants to use the Vajra to impose the unification of mankind in a fold network intelligence with her as the main node...

Is that why she wants to get to the Queen nest? To take Ranka's place on it or what?

When the bridge bunnies described the fold network, they mentioned the center of it would be amplified and would dominate over the other nodes of the network. Right now, the queen is the center of the network with Ranka acting as a medium so Grace can interface with it. Her final agenda would be to kill the Queen and take her place, essentially becoming the ruler of the entire galaxy.

Ok i have to mention this just in the hopes to crash your dreams but...

what if the photo of the the baby is the original Sheryl Nome, but Grace killed her and all relatives of Mao just for revenge and then gave the name Sheryl Nome to that random orphan she found.

The baby has the same hair color as Sheryl and the note said she was given the earrings by her mother. Lets not make wild assumptions here.

Then why the removal of the blood sample? Was it so recycle-bot will clean it in the recycling systems and through some lack of sanitation cause infection to the populace of Frontier?

Mitigate effects or cause effect? Klan clearly says the side effects of the pills...and Sheryl has them all. Are the side effects done by the pill or the virus?

The V-virus is in the blood stream, and Grace didn't want anybody figuring out Sheryl was infected. Also, Sheryl's fever and weakness was caused by the pills. Once she stopped taking them, she got better, but started to faint because of the virus.

I'll save any speculations for when the subs get released and I can understand what they're saying.

Hm. Gut flora. That means that Ranka is pooping out viruses like crazy? Sorry, but the infectious disease specialist in me is thinking... oh... so not good.

Well, the overly technical explanations into the biological mechanism for Ranka's abilities means really only one thing. Since Ranka was infected in utero, she has antibodies. Antibodies lends themselves to a cure. If I were Grace, I'd get some blood samples before I messed more with experiments with the Queen. If I were Luca, I'd also go after Ranka for a cure for Sheryl.

(Or I"d start doing some serology sampling of other Global survivors to see if they have immunity. It's possible that collection of enough antisera could yield a cure for Sheryl.l also still think it's biologically plausible that Sheryl could battle this thing on her own... but maybe the writers won't like that idea. It doesn't do much for the plot.)

So now I'm bored. I had rather liked the mysterious glowing bit inside Ranka, but this is similar to the midichlorian thingies in Star Wars. :-( Except it is grounded even further in current modern day science.

This also makes me think that Sheryl had to be a deliberate infection on part of Grace or the lab experiments. What we learned about Ranshe was that her exposure to the Vajra led her to becoming ill. How could Sheryl acquire the V-type infection in the wild on Galaxy? She'd either have to have not been sick and infected by Grace (in order to see if she could generate powers and antibodies) or have been on Global.

Sheryl being infected as part of Grace's plan was already confirmed back around ep 15 or 16 when Grace tells her that she was nothing more than an experiment. And if Ranka had antibodies for the V-virus it would've been destroyed by her immune system long ago. She's more or less formed a symbiosis with the bacteria since it only stays/survives in her intestines (hence the glowing stomach) and can't travel out into the blood stream.

As for Glass, he's the president of the NUN on Frontier. It'd be stupid to put the leader of the planets and fleets on the farthest colonization fleet. Not only could he be attacked by unknown forces, but any decisions would take forever to be relayed between other fleets/planets. 'Official' websites aren't always the best at posting accurate information, mostly since the webmaster in charge might not watch the show or be involved with it's production.

huh? what gave you the idea that it wasn't alcoholic? did i miss something?

When he says it's not alcohol while she's chugging her drink.

Although you could argue that she's convinced herself it's alcohol and that she's drunk.

I don't believe that'll be the ending. Every Macross series so far has ended with the conflicted parties reaching a peaceful resolution. The AFOS doesn't destroy humanity, Zentradi join the humans, Protodeviln leave to explore other Galaxies, Isamu and Guld reconcile their differences and become friends again. A "kill 'em all" end would be such a departure from Kawamori's other works (this includes series outside of Macross) that I can't agree with it.

So ten millions civilians have to die because of that? Frontier still has a legitimate reason for fighting, and they likely can't run at this point due to damage. And the Vajra FOLLOWED the Macross fleet and stuck a nest of killer drones inside Island-1 while the fleet was RUNNING AWAY. Real benevolent these bugs are.

The Vajra aren't a threat to Earth now. You're seriously going to trust the good will of a insect swarm that is immune to super nukes? Good luck with that.

This isn't settlers and indians, this is space bugs that rip people apart and have repeatedly pressed the attack on a fleet that has been essentially abandoned to a Darwinian experiment. Xenocide is ugly, but if you think a military force is going to let 10 million civilians die as a matter of "principal" (invading territory = bad) I doubt they'd agree.

My only point is that even provoked, it's silly to make excuses for a race of drones especially given that the bugs have prosecuted aggression against Frontier at EVERY turn never backing down from attacking even when the Frontier was trying to escape. The nest planted on Island-1 especially wasn't summoned there by Grace, the Vajra did that of their own 'will'.

The nest was put there by Grace, and despite that they still encounter free traveling groups of Vajra. If anything, that fold jump moved them further into the Vajra territory, thus looking like more of an offensive than running away. Now, I'm not saying that Frontier shouldn't be defending themselves, but the Vajra aren't necessarily the blood-thirsty villains you make them out to be. You can think of them like a beehive that was thrown at an innocent bystander(Frontier). The bees are still gonna attack the person the beehive hit, despite their intentions. However, the bees aren't looking for a fight, just defending themselves.

I don't know what show you're watching but Sheryl hasn't exactly been enjoying herself since episode 18.

Ok, let me correct myself then. Trying to enjoy it. She doesn't want to be alone, or feel sick from the pills, or be forgotten by people. She sang for people to help lift their spirits, and her own. She's trying, although serious weight she feels from the situation is still present.

I don't see why people keeping saying that Sheryl end is looking more and more likely when everything points at her dying. Yes, I realized we were trolled with Ozma, and that was it. It wouldn't only be tacky for them to do the same thing twice, but it would ruin Sheryl's character. She's faced with her mortality at a young age, and wants to leave an impression on people to prove she lived. Her desire to live a shorter, but unhindered life without the drugs makes this point even stronger. It would destroy everything that's been built up.

I think basically it all boils down to the way Ranka made her intentions know in Episode 21. I mean, IIRC she never did say that she wanted to stop the fighting. She just said that she wanted to take Ai-kun home. Now IF she had said that she wanted take Ai-kun home AND to stop the fighting in Episode 21, it would be safe to assume that we wont be having the "Ranka HATE" (Ranka is selfish, Ranka is a traitor, yada yada yada).

Do you really need somebody to hold your hand and tell you their exact intentions all the time? Ranka has never been about boasting to other people. She said she went to Gallia 4 to with Alto happy birthday, but it's clear she was aware of the situation there and that many more people needed help. Also, she responded very modestly to everyone's praise when her song worked to stop the Vajra attacks. She was clearly tired of being used as a tool by the government and knew something was wrong the way she felt pain when the Vajra would die. The reason she said she was taking Ai-kun home was following the same order. If she suddenly declared "I'm going to stop the war" it would've been out of character, even though that is her true agenda as stated in ep. 23. People prefer to ignore things like this to make their argument for hating her seem stronger.

As far as my predictions for the ending: Alto goes back to acting while flying for leisure, Ranka lives and works towards further understanding of the Vajra, and Sheryl gives one last magnificent performance before succumbing to the infection. Anything that gets shippers to shut up about Ranka-end or Sheryl-end would also be fine.

I would feel cheated if Sheryl miraculously lives at this point. There's all this build up of her living to enjoy the time she has left, not holding back, and refusing the meds. If they sellout to appease the countless Sheryl fans I'll be pissed. Keep in mind, I'm betting Alto gets no girl and goes back to acting.

Well it turns out my theory was right.

About the whole SherylxAlto thing, wasn't is said that the V-virus could be transmitted between people's bodily fluids? So...if they had sex then Alto could have SPACEAIDS as well.

yes.

@AgentOne:

I merely figured that ranka's mix made the most sense the way I broke it out;

obviously she's mostly human, has a quarter zentran mixed in (so what's the other quarter?)... vajra.

ta daa!

I mean everyone knows she's a quarter zentran, she said so... unless of course, this is a lie someone told her.

There doesn't have to be a quarter of something else for it to make sense. She can be a quarter zentran and 3/4 human. I doubt that she'd be genetically engineered with Vajra genes, just a successful implementation of the V-virus that Sheryl has.

Well ep 21 just proved how much of a tool she isn't anymore. She refused to be used by the government anymore, and left to do what she feels should be done. And how exactly does liking Alto and singing for him make her a tool? He never asked her to do it, and he certainly isn't benefiting from it. It's a high school crush.

Until Grace's ultimate goal is revealed nobody can say for sure if she's just evil or a well intentioned extremist. I think a "pure" villain, a character who's evil just to be the antagonist, is rather flat and really poor writing. If Grace's actions could be motivated by some greater achievement, it would be a nice turn around and people would be more "Oh, that makes sense...I suppose" instead of "She's just an evil bitch".

You know, I've been thinking lately and realized it would be an interesting twist if Grace turns out to actually have a good intentions but uses rather shady means to reach it.

I gotta say the new opening is pretty sweet. Tones of symbolism in it, which I like. Although I gotta say, if Sheryl Nome suddenly replaced my reflection in a mirror I'd be a bit more surprised than Ranka was. (of course I'm not allowed to say what'd happen after I recovered from the initial shock)

i don't know whats worse, the sheer arrogance of who ever at gg Fansubs made the "sex with ranka" comment or the fact that they can't even manage to get the subtitles to stop overlapping.

Or you can stop using a fail media player.

Nobody's talked about the huge vajra nest that was shown towards the end of 17. I'm gonna say it's possible the nest is in the Research Center on Frontier, where Ozma was about to break into. Maybe they're not only harvesting fold quartz from the Vajra but also eggs for breeding and "domestication" (kinda like a Chicken Coop on a farm?). Before anyone says it, there's no proof that only Queens will produce eggs. The one nest in space Brera destroyed had had no signs of a Queen. It'd also explain how Ai-kun got onto Frontier.