1st Border Red Devil

If you owned a company that had a Robotech license, why on earth would invest in anything that would be projected to lose money?

I'm not convinced it would be a money losing proposition. Sorry, but I'm not. There has been not a single instance of anyone officially BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys.

Not with Tommy, who is useless and incompetent, but to George Sohn directly both when I was at HG and after. The truth is, the numbers to him just didn't justify the costs of developing and designing a toy.

Oh, I know perfectly well. As you remember, I even talked about buying a mould from a manufacturer to GIVE to Toynami.

Masters/Southern Cross would need a serious effort of support behind it, but it will never reach the popularity of Macross or Mospeada/New Generation.

I know it would need serious support and I know perfectly well it will not reach the popularity. However, at the same time, its ridiculous to not even utilize 1/3 of your franchise.

Shaun of the Dead only it happens on Cuba not Britain.

Heh, looks funny.

Okay, so not up to snuff.

For a modern toy? Not even remotely.

By "anime magic," I mean: do the mecha's proportions change when it's in different modes? Are the legs thicker when it's a robot than they are when its a hovercraft? Stuff like that.

As far as I have ever been able to tell, no.

The toy from the 80s was not able to properly model the forward hoverjets, but I'd like to think that would not be so much of an engineering problem for a modern toy. Maybe I'm wrong. Besides, I'm talking about one of those non-transformable super-poseables to at least see if people want them.

Proof of this?

Are there or are there NOT other toy companies that make Macross items? Are they not said to be of superior quality for about the same price? Or am I missing something?

From what I've heard from people that put out stuff at Wonderfest, is that Big West owns all the rights to Southern Cross now.

That begs the question as to WHY they would do that if its a money pit and no one wants it.

I think HG, and Toynami, moreso Toynami, have done research to warrant not making Southern Cross toys.

Based. On. What? I have yet to see a SINGLE mention of Toynami BROACHING the subject of making Southern Cross toys.

Apparently, HG has done some research, or at least read their forums over the past 11 or so years, and has determined that Southern Cross isn't a money maker.

Again, if you sit on you @ss and don't even try, hey, you were RIGHT! I mean, f#ck almighty, its obvious that Southern Cross toys won't sell when there are none to sell!

Getting a straight answer from the guy who ran ADV isn't necessarily going to be the whole truth, either. You're talking to someone who isn't going to say that a product he put out did terribly.

And yet I'm supposed to take the word of Kevin McKeever and Tommy Yune that there simply isn't any interest?

I know from a decent group of people I know, that Southern Cross is more times than not, the least favorite of the 3 from Robotech, and if people recall Robotech, don't remember too much of the second series.

So. What.

It still sounds like a significant investment in terms of Harmony Gold and Toynami money. They aren't like other companies that do this kind of stuff on a regular basis, and the work shows.

It requires investment, yes. If you expect to have a product that will sell, you have to invest in it. It requires risk, otherwise you're simply p*ssing into the wind.

Does it look good in all three modes?

For a mass produced toy made in the mid-80s, I'd say its fair.

How much "anime magic" went into the original design?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

So you want them to invest, regardless of risk, in resurrecting and fully realizing a design from a 15+ year old discontinued toyline that originally came from a series made in 1984, citing quotes from people almost 10 years old now that it will be profitable in 2011?

:sigh:

What I want them to do is at least gauge interest by making 1 or 2 super-poseables. I think a set of Spartas and Ajax super-poseables might do well. I think its especially apparent that people are tired of getting the same Macross toys they can get elsewhere. Doing the same g#ddamn thing over and over again and expecting different results is called insanity.

If I thought for one minute that Tommy wouldn't f#ck it up, I would think a 1 or 2-issue comic from Wildstorm about the Army of the Southern Cross that coincided with the release would help sales.

No, I didn't. Which is why I said "FULLY TRANSFORMABLE."

It IS fully transformable. There is a bar that was placed (maybe on purpose) to prevent it from assuming Transport mode.

And anyway, it's rather ugly, isn't it?

The exterior can be modified to look better. Its called sculpting. But the concept is sound because it does fully transform.

No. You said HG isn't throwing money at it. I said that it failed here, and it failed in America. Failing in Japan gives HG a precedent of failure, and also means there's no real secondary market to fall back on, and no Japanese toy company willing to work together with Toynami.

Why would they need a toy company in Japan? They can make molds for toys now using scanning technology. All it requires are pictures. Tommy already let out back when they were talking about the images that were going to be used for the 2nd Edition Robotech RPG that he has detailed schematics for an Ajax toy that was planned.

In other words, you say it's irrelevant, and I disagree.

It is irrelevant because we don't live in a world where production processes on toys are primitive.

I don't think it is. You want Southern Cross transformable toys, yes? And all the Toynami transformable toys are based on ones already created for the Japanese market. With no fully-transformable Spartas toy to model from, I'm not sure Toynami can engineer one affordably.

Ummm, did you forget this:

What does ADV have to do with it? Again, I was talking about Japan.

Did you COMPLETELY miss the point of this conversation? I've been talking about Harmony Gold and its situation vis-a-vis Southern Cross this whole time. What does or does not happen in Japan has no effect on it.

Huh. Does that mean I should expect a Hasegawa Fire Valkyrie...?

Gubaba, you're aren't this dim. I have said, in more than 2 posts now, that Japan and its situation with Southern Cross is IRRELEVANT! Harmony Gold has refused to gauge interest in Southern Cross toys AT ALL. They could have released a set of super-poseables (3 Spartas, 2 Ajax, 3 Logan) to gauge interest. The moulds don't cost THAT much. I know, I checked on the prices at one time.

If it picked up such a massive audience, where are the sequels? The merchandise? The pachinko games?

What in the hell does that have to do with NOW? Nothing. Its success or lack of it in Japan is IRRELEVANT!

The only people in Japan who know Southern Cross are big Macross fans who heard it was incorporated into Robotech, and that's pretty much it.

Again, this is irrelevant to this discussion.

It failed to pick up an audience here.

Again, Matt Greenfield said otherwise going by the DVD sales. Are you saying you know more than the man who ran ADV Films?

I suppose I could go and ask, but if RT.com is representative of the fandom, then it certainly SEEMS like the show is less popular than the other two.

Less popular means nothing. It is not a gauge of how well or bad will sell. It is especially irrelevant if you don't even try and see if there IS a market.

Actually, considering they haven't touched any SC stock footage in their SC making of feature, I think there may be a problem there.

Then why did Tommy Yune apparently talk about releasing just the Southern Cross portion of Robotech the Movie?

The show was cancelled in Japan

Which is irrelevant to this discussion.

failed to pick up an audience later

Baloney.

Yes, it came out on DVD, but it didn't do very well.

Absolutely and demonstrably FALSE. I asked Matt Greenfield about this POINT BLANK at GenCon years ago and he said that it was bullsh@t.

The majority of Robotech fans aren't terribly into it, either.

Got any kind of proof that the majority of Robotech fans aren't into it? It did live on in The Sentinels, something that (just going by signatures on a petition) shows that a significant portion of fans want it.

How much money put into it do you think it would take to get people to like it?

Well they sure as hell could at least ATTEMPT to give it exposure more than simply ignoring it. They didn't even attempt to produce a single non-transformable super-posable to gauge interest. McKeever told me years ago that, much to my astonishment, they are basing this all on toy sales from the 80s (when there were a total of 1 human mecha and 1 enemy mecha toy, some figures and 2 accessories). Whatever in the hell toy sales from the 80s has to do with now, I have no clue.

But they know there's no money coming from that series.

Of course there is no money because they put none in. Why bother trying when you can sit on your @ss and claim that not doing anything gives you the very result you predicted.

ANd the continual use of Mosepeda designs as they are the only designs they can use.

Not exactly true. There is nothing prohibiting them from using the Southern Cross designs either. They just won't because Tommy Yune cannot think outside the box in any way, shape or form.

Then, next step is Alien vs. Starship Troopers!

Pish! The real Mobile Infantry would make mincemeat of Xenomorphs.

I wonder if the HG alarm has sounded yet though. "OH NOO'S, IT'S ON THE NET." How will they react to the non-believers seeing their new footage? Undoubtably the robotech.com hit counter will raise with this new footage being out. Can their servers handle it?

Won't matter as its on Facebook, YouTube and the (few) remaining websites where Robotech is even discussed anymore.

Nope, about all the comics they seem to be adapting say on that note is to briefly acknowledge that they were trained in the use of Alpha fighters and were expecting to use them, but they suddenly weren't available.

Granted. I'm trying to think of ACTUAL reasons that make sense. Tommy Logic^tm rarely makes sense.

Yep, that makes sense...take out all the most advanced fighters you have out of the equation

Presumably either all destroyed fighting The Masters or with the REF in deep space...

lead a reclamation force full of half-assed, one mode fighters against a superior fighting force

Yea, but the Invid have spit-ball range weaponry. And the REF has numerical superiority at the final battle (not to mention hordes of Drones). Presumably they stay ahead of the Invid on the logistical game.

You gotta love the blatant VF-4 ripoff.

And the VF-4 was obviously inspired from the SR-71's body shape. You can't 'rip off' something that was in-turn inspired by something else.

Speaking of animation, this has been floating around already. I didn't shoot this, but saw several cameras open during the filming.

Well that certainly doesn't look like a film comic, unless I'm using the wrong definition. Oddly, looks BETTER than Shadow Chronicles which I didn't think was possible. Those Garfish actually looked like Garfish-class ships instead of some clunky CGI block and the explosions were nice regular anime ones. Why the hell can't they go back and redo Shadow Chronicles like that so as to make it go from being a steaming pile of vapid drek that makes you want to gouge out your eyeballs to merely mediocre storytelling?

I'm just concerned about the Continuity (hah, Tommy and Continuity don't belong in the same sentence). SX.83 is supposedly Reflex Point according to Tommy (and The Art of Shadow Chronicles) but the scenes with the mounds open and flowers spreading look like from The Invid Invasion while the pilot in the SFA-5 ConBat looks to be Lancer during The Second Reclamation Mission.

Well, that's interesting. If Azog is in it, I guess it will start with The Battle of Azanulbizar/Nanduhirion at the end of The War of the Dwarves and Orcs. I would assume we get a slight sneak peak at The Balrog of Moria if it keeps true to the text as a very young Dain Ironfoot beheaded Azog on the steps leading into Moria near the end of the battle. It was Dain who saw what dwelled in Moria (well, would have seen a big-arsed SHADOW that had flame) and knew enough that Durin's Bane was nothing the Dwarf army could take.

Meh.....

Old Brooklyn Reg Devil never makes sense. He lives in his own little world where everything is true just because he says so.

Do you have a point, other than showing what a cocksucking douchebag you truly are?

I'm sorry, this makes no sense.

I don't own the copyright, since its part of a preexisting IP. By simply putting it on the internet HG could take me to court and sue me. Even if I won, I would be dead-ass broke from the resulting legal fees.