Aegis!

You know , something very weird happened to me today , I was looking through my stuff at home and suddenly my old VF-11B catched my attention within its box , I looked at it for a minute or two and noticed something ...god that toy is beautiful , I don´t care if it´s crap but damn I love that toy , and the best thing is that it hasn´t suffered any hip problems yet (it´s in its box after 1 transformation ). I also realised that 1/72 is not a bad scale afterall , it´s actually big enough and pretty nice , specially considering the M0 mechas are even bigger than the M+ ones so I´m pretty sure Yamato will get it right when they come.

After that I started to think about the upcoming re-sculpted YF-19FP and realised that that toy is gonna kick ass , I just can´t wait for it to come out

First off I´m aware this isn´t the first time we´ve talked about the SV-51 but I think this particular mecha deserves its own specialized thread to discuss various points about it.

I have to say I´m quite intrigued by this mecha from various poins of view which I would want to discuss with the rest of you :

The Design : the design of the SV-51 is by far one of the most originals within the macross universe , it oozes with functionality , from telescopic head unit to the multi-functional folding wings and the twin ¨machine guns¨ (sorry I´m not pretty familiar with guns). Let´s begin from top to bottom ; the head unit it´s very reminiscent of Kawamori´s gundam days presenting some features from older (within Kawamori´s designs timeline , not macross) variable fighters such as the VF-14 ¨cone head¨ which makes the unit look more agresive , the several fans at the back of the VF are very representative of the VF technological limits but at the same time add more versatility and elegancy to the overall shape. I have to say , the way the transformation works is very nice, the legs add to the streamlined lines of the mecha and make it look more agile at the same time.

When I compare other mechas like Gundams or Mortarheads (spelling-?-) to some macross mechas sometimes I feel as if some valks lack a bit of detail or elegancy (those are the minority though) designs , I´ve come to realise this is a result of the budget limitations in regards to the animation and the time periods in which some macross series have been produced (i.e. compare valks from M7 with M0 and you´ll see what I mean ,even though M7 valks are much more advanced they had to be simplified for more fluid animation ). In this sense the SV-51 represents a new era in macross mecha designs , some people may say M0 designs are too AC-ish but that´s actually a good thing and I don´t mean appearance-wise but rather the way the design has been elaborated.

It´s like back to the old days of SDF Macross where the VF-1 was in it´s entirety functional to the purpose of combat against giant aliens , this time the SV-51 is functional to the purpose of tactical fighting within a new field of variable combat.

Background history :

We don´t know much about the origins of the SV-51 apart from what we´ve seen on the OVAs , particularly Nora´s coment about the UN stealing the technology for the VFs and the UN argument about the Anti-UN stealing the concepts for the Variable fighter development programme , which doesn´t clarify anything at all , but at least we know the SV-51 was designed for combat fom the beggining and that is quite spectacularly demonstrated in Ep.2.

This mecha is very intriguing in this sense and I would like to hear more of it in th coming episodes.

I want to hear what you thin of it

I´m not surprised people have lost their love towards the 1/60s as the 1/48s became popular but i´m impressed by the urge to buy that people seem to experience when they see another 1/48, worse yet , not only are they buying the same valkyrie again at a higher price than what their older 1/48s are selling at but they buy several toys...not that I´m against that but I´m surprise people don´t get bored with the same thing after all this time.

The low vis was pretty special (I may buy one when the the purchase is justifiable ), at least it had a different pilot and entirely new colour scheme but the Skull Squadron valks are pretty monotonous , which is why I tend not to buy the same toy twice in the same scale.

sorry for that , anyway , I think the 1/60s are still pretty good and should remain active at least until all the SDF Macross mechas are produced as toys .

I feel disgusted whenever people start to criticize the 1/60 line because of their newly acquired 1/48 toys , we always knew Yamato was going to offer an improved design of the VF-1 (toy-wise) when the 1/48s were announced but from my perspective that´s no reason to see the 1/60s as crap. My Hikaru Super 1J is still in perfect condition except for the lock mechanism on one of the legs which I unfortunately scractched the paint off.

I recognise the 1/48 is the better toy in terms of detail and engineering but I fell people are being exploited with the sale price of these things, they may be the best toy rendition of the VF-1 but that isn´t enough for me to buy one immediately.

Shin , didn´t you make a thrad about this already ?

Graham won´t tell us nothing until the right moment so don´t waste your time asking for news.

I´m dying for a VF-0D Shin variant and a SV-51 DD variant but I still will wait patiently , in any case don´t expect nothing until next year.

a series based on armored core would be pretty cool in my opinion

Actually , that´s a really good idea

Thank goodness Alan and Van were heterosexual.

Were they ? damn , I didn´t notice

For a final veredict on how well Macross Zero is doing.... wait till all the DVDs are out and Bandai tried to bundle them in a more appealing package.

Where are the numbers on how Zero has been doing? I haven't heard anything either way, but I did wonder how it is being received...

We discussed that topic long ago on the old boards.

Price wise.... thats the standard DVD pricing in Japan. As for OVAs.... DVD only OVAs aren't successful untill all the DVDs are made available, specially long running series like Macross Zero. Very few fans can commit to watching one episode every 4 or 5 months, only hard core fans do that.

Precisely , I hope they add subs for the final version.

I have been saying for years now that they should go back and visit the original Space War 1. Look at how much milage Gundam got from the one year war. I like the Destroid idea but mine was to focus on the last half of the war on Max and Milia's squadren. They could make one of the newbs the main charicter(Make her female) and how they learn to be an elite squad under the teaching of M+M. 

Been there , done that : - that story was already done in Macross M3 for Dreamcast , Max & Millia adopted an infant Zentradi pilot as their own child and trained her and integrated her into their Dancing Skull Squadron.

I´m surprised by the number of people that say they would want a circa 2012-2030 series but when we see the poll itslef the 2050+ option is getting all the votes

I want to see VF-5000 and VF-9 , as well as Variable glaugs and the development of the VF-11 , kinda like M3 but with an alternative story set in a colony confonting rough Zentrans who have developed new mechas (yeah!) , a mix of VF-X2 kinda plot in M3 period. with high quality traditional animation.

I think some people are being overly enthusiastic about this unknown and unconfirmed mecha series.

The reaction of people here surprises me greatly mainly because we haven´t seen the end of Zero yet and people are already praying for a new series. And for whoever said M0 was an unsuccesful series that´s rubish , it hasn´t sold well but we´ve only seen 2 episodes of 30 minutes so far and each very expensive which is an awful mistake by BW and Bandai Visual but it has nothing to do with the quality of the OVAs , and for that matter Yukikaze hasn´t sold well either and yet is a quite popular series (even though it sucks story-wise ).

just my thoughts

Do we even know is a macross series ? from the little we´ve read there´s no mention of it being macross...

Well I guess I´ll play the game and overly hype myself like the rest of the people here <_<

Edit: I think the best period would be during the mid 20s to 30s , in a colony planet , with VF-5000s as the main fighter and VF-9s and maybe variable Glaugs (or Neo glaug I can´t remeber the one from M3 )

Jesus , no one has officially confirmed it´s a macross series and now we have a poll ? wow , I didn´t notice M0 was that dissapointing for us to want a new series already <_<

in any case , if there´s a new series in the near future I would like a 2 & 1/2 hour premier , that´s long enough to catch people´s attention.

One part of me thinks it would be nice to see a new TV series while the other one dreads the idea of another M+/M7 kinda episode...on the other hand an unrelated non-macross series from Kawamori would be nice but that still doesn´t explain why wouldn´t he concentrate fully on M0 before it ends

Perhaps because Zero is done... with animating it being the only thing missing.

Nah , that´s OK , he´s done a lot of research and has a good team. What I´m talking about is that he should at least supervise the production of M0 until it ends.

I don't have a biased idea as to what Macross should be. I was looking for Zero to be a different experience then SDF and DYRL, like Plus was. It was different, but something else was missing. I don't think Macross should be always about the same thing, but as a fan, I have the right to make a judgement on it based on my own anime standards, I won't give it special treatment because its a franchise I enjoy. I enjoy the full picture of what Macross is... I just feel Macross Zero does nothing to increase my enjoyment. Just as many fans chose not to like Macross 7 and sitll enjoy the full picture behind Macross.

I share the same vision , whenever a new series comes up I always expect it to be different and independently enjoyable ,and in this respect I think M0 is as different and inovative as M+ was (which by the way was also a human vs human conflict and technology corrupting the human mind ) , the good thing about M0 is that it retains the good things about the other series and implements new concepts and ideas. I would at least see the whole of the series before judging it based solely in just 2 episodes.

I didn´t even start watching Macross Zero because it was Macross , of course I was interested about it in that sense but -i never ever watch any anime specially Macross solely because of the name. My first reason to watch M0 was because it was a good alternative to Yukikaze , it had a lot of potential , it seemed obscure and mature and because it is one of the best anime series in the market right know. the CGI , mechas , and franchise name came in third place at best.

As for Japanese fans and Gundam... they did get bored, one show was nearly cancelled, and the other wasn't popular at all. The old series were interesting... the new ones are not. The new ones attract a different audience.... like 2 different groups. You need to watch Gundam.... and then you will realize the old shows aren't all the same BS like you seem to think.

Yeah , I know about the 2 timelines but I find that a cheap excuse to separate the franchise into a mainstrain anime and a hardcore more mature anime series. That´s why I wouldn´t like Macross to turn into a Gundam-kinda-show , I want solid , good quality anime.

One part of me thinks it would be nice to see a new TV series while the other one dreads the idea of another M+/M7 kinda episode...on the other hand an unrelated non-macross series from Kawamori would be nice but that still doesn´t explain why wouldn´t he concentrate fully on M0 before it ends

LOL.... I never said I disliked Macross so much. I said I Hikaru was an angst ridden teen, and that I disliked Macross Zero. Now... if to you, Macross is just macross Zero then I guess do hate Macross. SDF macross and DYRl are still my top ranking animes to date. Do I have a few complaints about them? Yeah.... but I dislike a few things about every show I like too. Its not enough for me to stop watching macross as a whole. As long as SDF and DYRL are still part of Macross, I will watch them, and I will come here to comment on what I like and dislike about them. I like Macross... have liked it since I was 7. I like Gundam, have liked it since I was 7 too. Both hold the highest place as far as anime goes for me.

I don't need to see a doctor because I dislike Zero..... I simply have no interest on knowing what the heck was going on, on earth before SWI.... it going to be destroyed anyways, so whats the use? What got me into Macross was humanities struggle to survive, and how a song unified humanity and aliens against a common threat, and how that song awoke the aliens to culture. I didn't get into Macross to watch a struggle between humans... because honestly... I can see that just fine now a days. I hate prequels, specially in the case of macross because I know the story that goes on before SDF Macross isn't going to interest me enough. Thats why I say its crap, if something doesn't interest me, I'm going to dislike it. You can't imagine how much effort I put into watching the first Macross Zero last Xmas... you can ask anyone I know.... I was seriously bummed at how it turned out. I didn't want it to be like SDF or DYRL or Macross, I wanted it to be a genuinaly good show, with an interesting story. While Macross Zero has its merits.... it has none of the merits that would require me to like a show.

As far as being popular goes.... theres a flaw in your statement. Japanese fans aren't like American fans. Gundam Wing was a success, you didn't see fans begging for more Wing, they just moved on after the show was over, unlike Americans fans who still seem to wish for Wing 2 every night. Making Macross popular in Japan doesn't necessarely means BW will have to completly change Macross to accomplish that. Japanese fans have far better taste then American fans. And I seriously doubt BW would have to turn macross into a Pokemon of sort to attract their attention

Fair enough , that´s your own personal opinion but there´s a HUGE difference between something unappealing and something being crap , and in that sense Macross Zero isn´t crap at all. It´s sad to see that Kawamori has failed to convince you that Macross Zero isn´t a simple prequel to SDF Macross , it isn´t simply about dumb humans fighting humans (and for that matter aliens vs humans isn´t original or attractive either) , is about the struggle of common people to retain the culture they proudly guard against technology and in a direct manner against the truth behind alien intervention. The struggle of normal people to regain their world , just like in SW1. If anything , Macross Zero is much more culture-orientated than SDF Macross.

It´s sad to see that for you Macross is nothing more than the TV series and DYRL? , yeah they´re also my two favourites anime series in my whole life, they easily top Macross Zero but if you´re unable to enjoy the full picture of what Macross is because of a biased idea of what Macross should be then its your own decision...even if there´s only 2 episodes out.

If you think I was thinking about the american fans when I wrote my statement then you´re terriblt wrong , I don´t even know what american fans like but if japanese fans have been living on Gundam for so long without getting bored of the same stuff then that tells a lot.

When you talk about continous TV series along the years you´re talking about low budget (compared to OVAs of course) , low production time (per episode) and lower quality products at the end of the day and we know what that leads to (ahem ....M7...cough). Macross doesn´t need continuous running series to be popular , what it needs is more publicity and more merchandise.

WOwowowow

This thread has been officially been taken over by the Gundam fans

Abombz!! :

first of all : If you dislike so many things about Macross , why the heck do you still watch it ?

Macross Zero hasn´t even reached half of the episodes scheduled for release and you´re talking about poor character development ? you surely ´need to watch more anime mate.

To be totally honest with you I don´t praise Macross Zero as some people do but I still recognise it has many good things and I ain´t watching it because of the damn CGI or the lovely mechas , I´m watching it because it offers a new perspective to the events before SW1 , the social conflicts involved in the dispute for overtechnology and the discovery of the secrets of the protoculture on Earth. And mate , if you´re seriously saying Macross Zero is crap then you need to see a doctor , I know when a Macross series is crappy , I knew it with MII , I knew with M7 (I still like it though) but Macross Zero is up there with DYRL the TV series and Macross Plus without doubt.

I have nothing against Gundam , I just don´t care about it , just like Gundam fans don´t care about Macross very much (unless you happen to like both).

You may think that by making Macross utterly popular in Japan BW will get more money and thus we will have more series but that´s where you´re wrong: We ain´t gonna have new good series ,mainly because those new series won´t be aimed towards us the older fans , it gonna be the general public that will have new series (just like Gundam with Seed and Wing ).

If they wanted to make it popular (i.e. appeal to as many people as possible) they would have to change the style of Macross in order to make it more appealing to non-fans (like M7 to J-pop fans) , and that means making many TV series along the years which implies there´s gonna be less quaility in those shows (less production time per episode , less budget , etc..) and less significant content for hardcore fans.

That´s what I would dislike , don´t get me wrong, I´m not against the possibility of new fans wanting to see Macross for what it is which would only happen if BW concentrates more on publicityto show people the attracking things about Macross . Yamato on their hand would need a miracle to make it to the West but we know what that means.

From what I read , I gather it isn´t gonna be a new Macross series. But a new mecha series from the Froating Head isn´t a bad thing at all so I´ll be wating eagerly for more news.

On the other side though why the heck isn´t he working full time on Macross Zero damnit !!?? , he´s forgotten about us

Clearly, Aries suspects there's "something" special to be found in the islanders blood, be it DNA or something else. Yet Sara is against the blood tests, likely without really knowing why. It's not like she watches a lot of Discovery channel or anything. Somehow in the distant past, the"snake" metaphor became part of the island folklore, as evidenced by the dialog and the cave paintings. Perhaps Sara's fear is based on some ancient warning from the "bird people" who would likely want their genetic tamperings on our planet to remain unknown. But what could it be about the islander's genetic makeup that would be a key to understanding AIPHOS that the rest of us wouldn't posess?

I agree with all of that , but I beg to differ in regards to Aries suspicion about the Islander´s blood. The only reason Aries took samples of the native´s blood was because it was a routine check on the healt of the natives , afterall you wouldn´t want the troops to catch anything on the island. I really doubt Aries was expecting to find something on the blood samples of the natives , that´s why she so surprised by the cellular

reaction in Mao´s sample when Sara´s song is detected by the Cyclops radar (it´s installed on the top of the cabin where Aries is looking at the blood samples ).

You sure about that? 

I thought he said fish, 'then after the Bird Men cut the fins off, legs grew.'

Dunno, been months since I've watched any Zero.

You might´ve seen a different fansub thus seeing a different translation , but in any case the folklore of Mayan shouldn´t be taken literally (i.e. Bird-men could reffer to creatures with just the ability to levitate or fly in machines/ships or even mechas or the protoculture itself ).

Gosh I love this topic , every one has something interesting to say and and one has something to read.

From my perspective not only Macross is not very popular in Japan but every other anime series (TV and OVA) when compared to the colossal marketing campaign behind Gundam falls under the category of not very popular.

But I ask you this : Do we really want Macross to be a popular anime in Japan ?

If we think about the compromises that Kawamori would have to do to make Macross an appealing anime for every japanese kid that is a Gundam fan then I have to say NO F***ING WAY!!

Is it really sensible to turn Macross into a continous ordeal of repetition year after year after year after year ?At least M7 had the merit of having something to add to the continuity but if BW decided to make a TV series aimed at the general public in Japan then they would have to tone down the plot and seriousness of MAcross , and that would be down right bad.

I don´t want Macross to be as popular as Gundam , I don´t care if it isn´t very popular as long as we get good quality series from time to time , of course I would like to see more series more often but I seriously wouldn´t recomend BW to go the Gundam way of regurgitated material.

What we really need is for BW to wake up and concentrate more on publicity , specially on TV and trailers within other DVD releases. Secondly they seriously need to include subs on their M0 DVDs if they want to skip HG and their dirty intentions.

Did you notice Sara mention "two snakes intertwined" in the islanders blood somewhere in that scene? That's a pretty accurate metaphor for DNA

Yes , I think it´s quite clear she´s reffering (unknowingly) to the DNA structure , If you see Ep.1 when the old man is telling the islanders about the legend of the Bird-men you´ll notice that there´s a painting of the DNA on the wall.

I thought about the prospect of a virus causing a random mutation. And yes this is a real concept, however the old man in the village was saying that the Bird People cut the fins off of the fish to make Man... I don't think the virus theory will go anywhere as it would be hard to connect to what we already know about the Protoculture race.

He didn´t say the bird-men cut the fins off fish , he said they cut the tails of the early man , which in any case isn´t a literal , it´s a metaphor created as a way to enrich their folklore. That´s the whole point of Macross Zero , to explore the contrast between metaphorical folklore and real facts within the realm of Macross , the natives may think is all magical and sacred religious simbols but in reality it´s nothing else but the Protculture intervention on earth.

Would they re-issue the Low-Vis ?

Yeah , when I was watching episode 2 and saw Aries an the other scientist talking about the Viral Evolution theory my jaw droped to the ground , I couldn´t believe Kawamori would intagrate this kind of stuff into Macross , specially when I read about that same thing a few months before Macross Zero.

I think this is a great addition , I think Kawamori must´ve based some of the original info in Macross and DYRL? on this and then he decided to explore it fully in a Prequel , the Protculture intervention has been ¨hinted¨more than a few times and this time MAcross Zero has show a real serious attitude in this aspect. At least we recieve a more logical approach to the origins of human evolution and the Protculture themselves.

I wonder what the role of the AFOS is though ?

If they could retain information as easily as some people think then they would have no need for Exedol. Don´t think of Zentradis as people , think of them as machines , tools , biological weapons even , they could easily put battle tactics into a clone´s memory but that clone itslef doesn´t have any experience at all until he goes into battle.

Wow , I still remember this show , it was freaking cool , especially the vehicles , the story was above average I would say , at least the later episodes. Wasn´t there a conection between the bad guys and Easter Island ? I remember seeing some Moais (those giant head statues ) in the later episodes.