op4_delta

You made me realize something notable I never payed any attention before, none of the Asuka´s phalanxes fire at Nora or Ivanov, some do not fire at all, like the one mounted on the island and others seem to fire at hi-flying targets, only the destroids engaged them. Maybe the stealth on the Sv-51 was really good.

Indeed he flew it, but as I understand even with wings extended, the aerodinamic capabilities are not as good as in fighter mode and compensating this with the engine´s thrust consumes more fuel.

Right, while the Asuka is not equipped with RAM, it´s destroids are, besides, the big port side blind spot is not a big flaw, taking into accout that the ship can manouver to bring the phalanxes to bear and the destroids can move out of their tubes, so a missile hit would be very difficult to achieve, on the other hand enemy variable fighters could outmanouver the destroids and use that gap to their advantage, apparently Ivanov and Nora were well aware of the hole in the carriers defences.

I trust your experience, it´s a Sea Sparrow then. I guess that launcher covers the big blind spot the port side has, with only 2 phalanxes protecting both ends, the center is almost undefended at close range, the misiles launched from that port-aft emplacement should reduce the number of threats before they get into phalanx range. This image shows the cover of the phalanxes at their minimum kill range, if a projectile is not downed before entering the red circle the fragments may produce damage. The blue part of the circle is not covered by the phalanx guns, just by the beam cannon, the empty triangles are blind spots, as you can see the starboard side is fully covered due to the island mounted phalanx and 3 destroids. The image shows coverage at sea level, the vulnerable port side is fully covered from air threats by the other 3 destroids, but they would have to move to the edge of the flightdeck to engage sea-skimming missiles. Another considerations: In realistic terms, only 4 of the 5 phalanxes can tilt to their maximun elevation arch, one mounted on the island can engage low flying missiles, but it´s proximity to the superstructure limits it´s X axis rotation. In the anime the phalanx fits perfectly, but a real life phalanx is much bigger and has drives and power systems I guess on a box below the mount itself.

Yeah, those are the cheyenne possitions. Now in this image you can see what I think is the Sea Sparrow launcher. Look just above the waterline and to the stern of the carrier. This image is dark, but if you zoom in you can see two parallel boxes holded by a cylinder. What do you guys think?

Thanks, let me know if the site comes up again, I will really appreciate that. The ship is supposed to have the Aegis system, but the SPY-1 arrays look different from the ones in the Burkes and Ticos, so I guess is a SPY-1E or something. Soon I will post some pics that shows the possitions of the phalanx guns, I am having a problem with the one mounted on the bridge, since it looks smaller in the anime, but in real life, the thing is bigger.

Actually I know very little of texturing, but I plan on taking a photoshop tutorial, if you know a good one for making matals and ships hulls, let me know.

As requested, this is a WIP pic of the Asuka´s island. The model is not intended for CG movies, is around 30,000 polys so most modern games can load it I would appreciate if someone tells me what are the antennas and stuff it has.

You are right with the number changes, as a matter of fact the name Algeciras is traditional in the Marine National, and the "Illustria" (Illustrious) carrier we see in epidode 1 is a regular name in Royal Navy ships, so other ships could be transfered or renamed. But what I tried to say is that the only Flight I or Flight II Arleigh Burke destroyers with the numbers 70 to 78 are US Navy. The numbers are subject to change as well as the names, but there are too many coincidences to ignore them to assume that the DDG 77 is a new type of ship, even if it is, it would only be a burke with a different forecastle, also lacking a very important phalanx gun, wich is a contradiction to the increase in anti-air warfare weapons we see in the rest of the ships. The Asuka sacrificed flightdeck space in exchange of 6 AAW destroids, the equivalent of 12 phalanx guns, plus one more conventional phalanx mounted on the island and a boxy thing in the stern that appears to be a sea sparrow launcher. The burkes also gained an additional phalanx in a very odd place, so having a degraded burke in a battle scenario with so many advanced air threats with OT misiles makes no sense to me and if we take into account that the said new ship appears only in one scene, with other not so well drawn vessels, makes me think that my theory of lazy drawing is not so crazy after all.

From their possition in the formation those have to be the the same ships that float on chapter 5, I think this way because in every other scene they can be clearly distinguished as Burkes. Even in the mystery pic they have the same mast, phased array and chimmey configuration than a burke, the only difference is the swept back superstructure and the lack of a forward mounted phalanx, wich can be explained by a low detail draw. About the numbers, they are a bit difficult to see, specially the second, but from the shape it could be a 74 too, the 79 is out of the question because DDG 79 is a Flight IIA, the USS Oscar Austin.

To me the "lazy" pic shows a drawing that was supposed to be in the backgrond but was used because it only appeared on screen for a few seconds. There are 4 burkes in the first pic, an image from chapter 1. The burkes shown, are located on the starboard flank of the Asuka, later during chapter 3 that flank gets attacked and one of the burkes, the Algeciras is severely damaged, explaining why only 3 destroyers remain on the mentioned flank in chapter 5, one of them being DDG 77. On the final chapter, the 3 remaining destroyers gets turned into a flower and then explode.

Indeed the picture with Focker and Aries looking at the horizon with the escorts nearby suffers from "lazy drawing", (the front phalanx mount is missing) but the only Aegis ship with a 77 on it´s hull is USS O´Kane, besides in the CG and floating scenes the Burkes are clearly seen, so there is only crappy scene in the whole series. The crappy destroyer. This shows an Arleight Burke With only a few modifications, but definetly a Burke, the Japase version has a taller superstructure.

Great explanation Nied, to me this clears up the debate, the only Zhukovskiy aircraft in Macross Zero was the Sv-51. I would like to propose we move onto the modified Arleigh Burke, what do you think?

Indeed, if you look at the CG model of the Mig-29 in the Macross Zero official site you will realize they only merged the cannards mesh with the Fulcrum´s model.

You are not off topic mate, I have asked that question myself many times, you see some Ghosts and VF-0s launching, and then during the attack, the flightdeck is empty and only one S-3 is seen in the hangar. You don´t scramble 90+ aircraft and let about 10 Sv-51s enter your carrier hangar...??? Is a big mistery.

The plane is a Fulcrum for sure, it has the shape, the wings, the chaff dispensers and the canopy, it also lacks the tailcone of the Su-27, the most significant feature of this Mig is the diagonal cannards of the SV-51. It may be a naval version, but I am not sure it is a sub-launched version, most certainly is an upgraded OT model, like the life extension given to the F-14´s mentioned earlier in this post. This is the Mig-29K The way I see it the Auerstadt only carried Sv-51s wich due to their variable nature were easier to recover than the Fulcrums wich would need arresting wires, and surfacing the sub. Also the Auerstadt only had 20 launch tubes, meaning that those Migs came from someplace else, with only 20 Sv-51s the AUN would be outnumbered by the numeric superiority of the VF-0s and the Ghosts, so to fight an all out battle with the Asuka´s air wing additional aircraft ould be needed. The submarine carrier is a covert tactical asset of the AUN, lets remember that the Auerstadt is a submarine and it acted as such. That kind of ship, unlike the CVN-99, was not mented to lead a large taskforce, it´s strengh is based on the capability of choosing and attacking key targets with impunity, not in numbers.

For Knight26: I agree on both things. The surface units could compromise the Auerstadt´s cover location, maybe the AUN destroyers were scorting a conventional aircraft carrier, since in the final battle we see those strange looking Mig-29´s with the diagonal cannard planes. I know the Fulcrum we see in chapter one is not a naval aircraft, but the ones I am tolking about are different. Also, the Auerstadt can only carry 20 Sv-51´s, a force only capable of surgical and covert strikes, but for a large scale naval battle additional wupport would be needed, in the form of the Mig-29´s. Escorting the Asuka we only see 5 Burke destroyers, but there should be more, specially on it´s port flank in wich only 1 is shown, you are also right in the covert origin of the mission, that is why we dont see any cruisers or frigates that could be detected for being non stealth, for that reason the entire battle group is made up of stealth destroyers. For Garou Kuroryuu, I am still working on the island, the saw edges of the windows are a bit triky to make, I will upload a pic as soon as I have something decent to show. The destroid tubes are quite interesting, is like having 12 phalanxes in a very small place.

The carrier does not have sepparate elevators for destroids, it uses the 4 main elevators for this purpose, it´s destroid complement is deployed via the aft bay, by amphibious craft. However, it has those destroid tubes behind the island that act as some kind of bunkers or emplacements. Indeed, the AUN sub carrier would be escorted by other subs, Akulas I pressume, but Macross Zero has very little footage on the Auerstadt and the type of escorts it had, but I bet those 2 destroyers scorting it were Sovremennys since all of the hardare shown is russian. I agree the whole gravity generator thing got repetitive, I personally think those purple things were just reactors, as a matter of fact they turn purple, the color of the birdman, but this only implies that the birman was influencing them, it does not give a clue of what they were. So the debate could go on and on and we don´t want that.

I agree, modern warships with NBC protection, have air filtration systems, capable of isolating the ship from the contaminated enviroment. Also at least the lower bulkheads have to be water/air tight, so a flooded compartment could be sealed off from the rest of the ship. As for the destroyers being able to support the cheyenne... I think this needs to be analyzed in depth, the Asuka escorts were all modified Flight I or II Arleigh Burke DDG´s wich can support but not maintain helicpters, so my guess is that the cheyennes could be rearmed during battles at the ship´s landing pads, but not carried the whole way since those vessels have no hangars. An alternative to this, would be to have the cheyennes fastened with cables to the landing pads, but for the destroid to move from the rear to the bow, it would have to perform a short jump using the jetpack, since carrying the thing on the bow gets in the way of the 5 inch gun and maybe the VLS cell. As for the submarines, at least 2 attack subs should be escorting the Asuka II, but they are not shown in the OVA, but this may be related to the fact that Macross is more air oriented than underwater oriented, and a submarine battle a la red october would take too much time away from the main focus of the anime. More interesting is the fact that the AUN´s sub-carrier is seen escorted by 2 destroyers, shouldn´t be 2 subs instead?

I commented this a few posts above, the UN ships did not fall to the ocean right away for 2 reasosn, the anty gravity thing the birdman does is not an instant effect, it has "fade-ins" and "fade-outs". It took the birdman sometime to get the Asuka levitating on the air, also, when the birman left, it´s power faded, not just dissapeared; besides, letting the carrier fall would mean killing the mayan islanders. Now being a bit rude, I feel like levitating this whole gravity discussion out of the carrier battle group topic.

Ok, since no one cared to read it, I decided to repost it. Please lets conclude the generator thing and discuss the topic´s subject. Here is a bit more info on the main subject of this topic, the vessels and aircraft conforming the Asuka´s CVBG. On to the Arleigh Burke missile destroyers: The entire group of escorts the Asuka had were modified Flight I and Flight II Burkes, there is not a single Flight IIA to be seen in the group, depriving the battle group of the extended anti submarine capabilities of the newer version of the destroyer, maybe this would explain why the UN forces never found the AUN´s sub-carrier. 28 Flight I and II Burkes were built and at least 5 are seen escorting the Asuka, but I assume there were at least 8 in the group, forming a protective ring around it with 3 on each side, one forward and another in the back. But why an escort of just destroyers, not frigates or cruisers? the answer I found to this is stealth, it is suppossed to be an stealth fleet, and the Burkes are way more stealthy than the O H Perry frigates and the Ticonderoga cruisers, there is no point in having an stealth carrier with a non stealth escort. The modifications made to the Burkes: the bow sonar is considerably larger, it has 2 small stabilization fins on each side of it, the normal propellers have been replaced by pod propellers and the foremost chimmey has been reduced a bit to accomodate a block 1 phalanx, wich has a shorter barrel. This image is a work in progress, so excuse the low res texture and the holes in the sonar. DDG 77 USS O´Kane, escorting the Asuka, of the 4 vessels shown in the picture, one is the ill fated Algeciras, probably sold or transfered to the Marine Nationale, or just renamed in french after being part of a global navy. Is the mentioned Algeciras destroyed? it got knocked out for sure, the bridge was destroyed leaving it headless, but the place the missile impacted could not cause it´s sinking....

That´s a great pic, I take it it´s a concept art, because the island and mast are different, but the hull and flightdeck are the same, it also proves my findings on the location of the elevators. I do not have that book, sorry, but those things are hard to get in my country. I am sorry about the signature, freshman´s mistake.

And please read my earlier post on the modified Arleigh Burke, this topic has become a "grav generator yes or no" insteand of a place to talk about the Asuka CVBG, I don´t mean to be rude, but I think we should reach an agreement on the debate and move on to the Asuka.

No, I am not Nanashi As for the gravity generators debate, I still think those sea going ship don´t need them, specially the Asuka, wich unlike the Prometheus was not submersible... still it does not clear the fact that those things look like grav. generators, so my guess is that maybe the OT generators are not task specific, I mean they could be used to generate raw power wich could be then converted into gravity, cynetic energy or the "ammunition" for the beam cannons????? Also, lets analyze the process of lifting the Asuka into Space: First, all of the support aircraft would be useless as well as the VF-0, remember it has conventional engines because the nuclear ones could not be finished in time, so a space-going CVN is just a big and easy target, specially from below. On top of that, the Oberth space destroyer was already functioning by 2005, 3 years before Macross Zero. Lets keep in mind that the Asuka represents the last of conventional warfare carriers it is stealth because it cannot submerge, this also makes it an easy targer for orbital bombardment, but a very dificult opponet for the more conventional planet based AUN forces. The class the Asuka belongs ended with CVN-100 I presume, the Prometheus being CVNS-101, right?

Ok, here is a bit more info on the main subject of this topic, the vessels and aircraft conforming the Asuka´s CVBG. On to the Arleigh Burke missile destroyers: The entire group of escorts the Asuka had were modified Flight I and Flight II Burkes, there is not a single Flight IIA to be seen in the group, depriving the battle group of the extended anti submarine capabilities of the newer version of the destroyer, maybe this would explain why the UN forces never found the AUN´s sub-carrier. 28 Flight I and II Burkes were built and at least 5 are seen escorting the Asuka, but I assume there were at least 8 in the group, forming a protective ring around it with 3 on each side, one forward and another in the back. But why an escort of just destroyers, not frigates or cruisers? the answer I found to this is stealth, it is suppossed to be an stealth fleet, and the Burkes are way more stealthy than the O H Perry frigates and the Ticonderoga cruisers, there is no point in having an stealth carrier with a non stealth escort. The modifications made to the Burkes: the bow sonar is considerably larger, it has 2 small stabilization fins on each side of it, the normal propellers have been replaced by pod propellers and the foremost chimmey has been reduced a bit to accomodate a block 1 phalanx, wich has a shorter barrel. This image is a work in progress, so excuse the low res texture and the holes in the sonar. DDG 77 USS O´Kane, escorting the Asuka, of the 4 vessels shown in the picture, one is the ill fated Algeciras, probably sold or transfered to the Marine Nationale, or just renamed in french after being part of a global navy. Is the mentioned Algeciras destroyed? it got knocked out for sure, the bridge was destroyed leaving it headless, but the place the missile impacted could not cause it´s sinking....