Vic Mancini

Not just "parts" would need to be changed. They'd have to entirely redo the 19 to do any of the M7 19s. At least the differences between the YF-21 and VF-22 are minimal and would only require modifications rather than starting over from scratch.

I would like a non-cannon 19 paint scheme like this soviet 19, or this camo 19.

The YF-19 looks killer in camo.

I can't stand any of the Mac 7 VF-19 variants.

I've always liked that 21 scheme, but disliked the 19 scheme.

I'm not a fan of either of the Super Nova schemes.

as much as I'm bummed and a little bit angry at yamato over the whole shoulder thing, at least we didn't get this POS:

Ahh...My eyes!

You changed your post. I realised that now.

You were looking for the Fully Armoured VF-11 before.

The only change I made to my post was a correction of a typo, (I originally wrote VF-O, as in L,M,N,O,P, instead of VF-0) and the edit occurred 5 hours before you replied to me.

I didn't say anything about VF-11 armor, but thanks for the tip anyway.

VF-11C Protect Armour (M7 and VF-X2)

Why do you want me to look at this?

I'm confused.

Click on the link in the first post.

Which link?

...Love the VF-11.

It's somehow so elegant and utilitarian at the same time.

Too bad it's probably well over a year away since Omega One is first quarter 2008 and the VF-0D, or maybe 0S reactive armor, is probably next up after that.

Well i never said i didn't like it... far from it! I like it. I love looking at it from the backside. Looks cool.

Every single Valk out there has a decent enough Gerwalk pose...

if you find the right angle to display it in. VF-1's Gerwalk is king, then VF-0, then the rest.

No way.

The VF-0 alone is an improvement over the VF-1 in every mode. The VF-1 is king of nothing except for FAST packs.

My fav G mode is the SV-51, followed by the YF-19, VF-11, and the VF-0.

Gerwalk rules.

I really like Gerwalk on the 19... guess I'm one of the few

hmmm....maybe it's time for me to start my modding abilities and try to see if I can get a semi-locking mechanism with some magnets

Neat idea. Please post a step by step if it's successful!

I agree that Gerwalk mode should have chest locking. The lack of it in Battroid mode doesn't bother me at all though.

Graham

The chest unlocks as soon as you try to bend the elbow in your transformation video. I can't understand how that doesn't bother you at all.

Off topic:

(I'm starting to suspect the SV-51 doesn't have a torso lock either, which would be a shame. Not a deal breaker by any means, but I'd rather have a torso lock than not have one, that's for sure.)

That might be because it's fugly!! blegh! yuk!

Grrrr! Alpha One's G mode owns.

Gerwalk gets no love on this message board.

Ive never really had mine come apart. At least i dont recall it every being a problem when i play with it. Maybe Im just remembering wrong.

Im not sayign a lock is a terrible idea. But they didnt add it, and are unlikely too now, so why worry?

Maybe you don't handle yours very much. Are you a transform once, and pose on a shelf kind of guy? You said yourself you have no desire to pose yours the way Ruskii did, which (no offense) means you hardly count as an appropriate beta tester. The YF-19 should be designed to function in a way that it can be handled in a full range of motion. You should be able to lay it on it's stomach, on it's back, make it do a flip in the air if your heart desires, and it should stay locked together and feel solid.

Watch Graham's transformation video.

The chest pops apart with in the first minute of the video as soon as he touches the hands, arms, and shoulders, and he's holding it completely vertical. Don't get me wrong, I love Yamato's YF-19. I think it's 99% a work of genius, but the fact that there is no chest lock has driven me nuts since day one. It's a major oversight IMO. There should be one in Gerwalk too.

But I still don't see how a YF-19's legs are any different from a VF-1 or VF-11's. From fighter mode, you pull them straight down and spread the nozzles.

I still see the YF-21 as being the most unique valk, transformation-wise, by far. The sheer fact that it can fly without its limbs proves that I think. Take off a YF-19's limbs, and see what you get in fighter mode.

True, the 21 differs from the VF-1 more than the 19, but I wouldn't call the 19 similar to the VF-1. In a way, the legs don't even move between the transformation from F to B on the 19, where as they swivel 180 degrees forward on a swing arm for the VF-1. The backpack, head, and shoulders all move differently as well. The way the fuselage of the 21 seperates in the middle and folds forward is actually closer to the VF-1 than what the 19's fuselage does. But you're definitely right about the legs being the engines and the arms being stowed between them in F mode, which is pretty standard for almost every other Valk design.

Both Valks are very unique IMO, but the 21 without a doubt is more unique, which I think was kind of the point of Mac Plus. The 19 vs 21 competition in many ways was a competition between the old vs the new. The 21 was the new, radically different Q-Rau based, Zentraedi technology incorporating, morphing wings, mind control Valk, while the 19 was more traditional in nature by sporting a more human design aesthetic and the tried tested and true analogue interface. The radical element of the 19, however, was the forward swept wings which perfectly suited Isamu's rebellious, against-the-grain, rogue, personality. In no other Macross series have the Valks so perfectly matched the personalities of their pilots. I dig that about Plus.

Id never want to pose mine like that, so I see no need for it at all. Also, witha little work u ciould achieve basically the same pose with the chest pushed back together.

And because you don't want to pose yours like that it means a locking mechanism isn't needed for anyone else either?

Battroid mode should be tight, and you should be able to move it around without having to push the chest back together or doing a "little work" to keep it looking like it's supposed to.

And why would anybody want to hold the battroid upside down?

Graham

Here is all the evidence you need for why there should be a chest locking mechanism on the YF-19:

The entire underside and sides of the fuselage are gone. The "shutters" are not part of the limbless mode nor intended to smooth out the area---they are the vanes for deflecting the engine thrust in GERWALK mode and are always present. They are merely exposed by the loss of the belly.

The YF-21 has an intake/nacelle configuration very similar to the YF-23, with the intake trunking angling upwards as you go in, thus the loss of the belly doesn't interrupt airflow to the engines, as the intake trunking stays near the top of the fuselage. (With the shutters forming the underside of the intake trunking---more properly I think they'd be called louvers, but they act as vanes/deflectors)

I find that the YF-21 is similar to the YF-23 in a lot of ways.

RIP Black Widow.

Thanks for the clarification guys.

I believe the "belly covers" were jettisoned with the limbs. Seeing as the "belly covers" were attached to the legs and not the hips.

I thought they stayed on through the marvel of anime magic. I re-watched the scene in ep4 in slow mo, and I can't see a good shot of the underside. Maybe the movie version shows it better. I don't have a copy of it.

I always thought the Fighter belly covers stayed on the YF-21 after Guld jettisons the limbs. The DStance looks silly to me without it's limbs.

This sort of thing really pisses me off you know.

All you guys have seen is one low-res, low-detail CAD picture for a single day and already you are making polls about whether or not you will buy it based on bad QC. Friggin unbelievable!!!!

For fu#@s sake, how can you make a decision based on the extremely limited information you have so far?

Graham

Yamato's track record is all the information most of us need.

The ones who are already sold on a first release are making their decision based on the immaculate beauty of the 1, 0, 19, and 51. All those valks look amazing. We don't even need to be shown pictures of a 21, because we know it's going to look beautiful. Yamato hit the ball out of the park on every one of those Valks.

The people who have already made up their mind to wait for a second release are the ones who felt jipped by things like non locking feet, floppy back packs, crooked gun pods & gear, and fragile shoulders that could've been avoided/improved upon if they had waited for a later release. Even the cannon/non-cannon VF-0A fiasco is enough to make someone think twice about a first release 21. Imagine if you only had enough money for one VF-0 and you were told that the non-Shin version was the only 0A coming out, and you bought it only to find out a few months later that an anime accurate Shin version was on it's way after all complete with a ghost and strengthened shoulders that you missed out on because you took the plunge on the first release 0A.

The decision has nothing to do with the CAD art. We already know the 21 is going to look incredible but we also know that it has the potential for flaws that might be fixed on later versions.

But aren't the lasers only usable in battroid/gerwalk mode, and even if in fighter mode it can only fire the rear? Anyway the "high mobility mode" or whatever it was called in the D'stance kit would be interesting to have, but I'd prefer if if they didn't.

Are you crazy? High speed mode is a must have. It's actually do-able unlike the 19. If they can do the giraffe head on the 51 they can do high speed mode on the 21. Tail fins just fold up against the engines and the wings bend down about 45 degrees. That's easy.

Like I said, I would tend to agree that style and drama play a good part, but calling FAST Packs completely needless is stretching a good theory into implausibility. We don't really have enough information to judge how much fuel the valkyries use or need (or even the degree to which efficiency has improved over generations of variable fighters). The YF-19 fuel tanks in 2040 could actually provide more range than the large VF-1 fuel tanks in 2010. Comparing the VF-1 FAST Packs to the YF-19 FAST Packs in size alone is ignoring the design and function of each set. The VF-1 set added full boosters to increase velocity, while the YF-19 set does no such thing. This does not make the YF-19 set "less useful," it merely means the YF-19 packs serve a different function which may or may not be more or less relevant than previous generation FAST Packs. Ultimately, dismissing certain FAST Packs as "looking" useless pretty much is useless as any sort of definitive conclusion. I'd also keep in mind that Macross (for the most part) is set in the real robot genre and it clearly results in more consideration of technology than the average vapid science fiction show. Statistics continue to be publicized and nearly every new installment in the franchise has only added more description to the fictional technology.

Well I never said they were completely needless. I said that it's likely that the primary reason they were created was for the cool factor and because FPs have become a Macross tradition/novelty, and that any rational purpose for the FPs was probably an afterthought to justify their necessity. That doesn't mean they don't have a purpose, just that the purpose is probably a little more superficial than the VF-1s FPs for example.

The small size of the 19's and 21's FPs support this theory. They're so small and so conformal that there is no reason they couldn't be a part of the fighter's default design anyway. The fact that Isamu and Guld didn't jettison their FPs once their life and death struggle took to the atmosphere suggests that their added weight/drag isn't even enough to detract from the performance of the AVFs. Their Valks have limiters on them anyway and the limiters most likely adjust to allow the Valks to perform at maximum human thresholds with or without FPs. Kawamori could've easily designed the FPs right into the Valk and nobody would even notice. That could be an indication that the 19's FPs were created for the sake of giving it FAST packs and that the FPs are more arbitrary in nature than the VF-1s FPs.

And most importantly, you can't derive anything from seeing a FP explode, or the colour of the flame it gave off because there's not necessarily any logic behind that explosion. It might mean something, but it just as easily might not. It's probably just there for effect.

I could care less about the FP which look fugly IMO.

I totally agree. Worst FPs ever IMO.

First release for me if the reviews are good and if the pictures impress me as much as the 19 and 51.

Second release if there are any QC issues like crooked gunpods and landing gear.

And I'll skip it all together if the undercarriage looks like the 1/72 arms and legs sandwhich. It's gotta be flat, and the limbs have to be hidden in fighter mode. A tall order, I know, especially since the legs need to be long to make B mode look good.

I can't wait for more pictures. It's easy to make the top of fighter mode look. Even the 1/72 looked decent from that angle. The trick is the undercarriage and the other two modes.

As much as style and that ever present "cool" factor may be a part of Macross, I would stop short of calling FAST Packs needless. Space is huge, more so than most people can grasp. Interplanetary distances within the Sol system alone are vast.

Well, in that case are a couple of small shoulder FAST packs containing fuel, or reactant, or whatever, going to make a significant difference? Fuel consumption has never been a factor or a plot device in any Macross series that I can recall, (besides Zero which doesn't count for obvious reasons). I've never seen a Valk run out of gas and the pilot say, "Damn...if only I had some FAST packs, I could have made it to Jupiter!"

I'm sure they do contain Fuel/Reactant or have some kind of practical purpose behind them, but I think the practicality is more of an afterthought than the true purpose of why FAST packs are created for newer Valks... and that purpose is probably to look cool. It's the same reason why the SDF-1 transforms into a giant robot. It does so because it's cool. The practicality of needing to be in that mode to fire the main guns was most likely an afterthought to justify the necessity for putting a giant robot in the series. Hell, even the Zentradi themselves being 40ft tall was probably an afterthought to justify the necessity for building transforming fighter jets, when the actual reason they were created was probably no more significant than transforming fighter jets being cool.

I'm sure FAST packs have their purpose, all I'm trying to say is it's probably a mistake to over analyze what kind of internal gizmos/reactant they actually have or why they exploded in some scene where they were hit by gunfire. I've seen cars in movies explode from a single bullet to the gas tank, and computers in cartoons explode as if they were filled with dynamite...why? Because it looks cool. We might as well try to rationalize why there is sound in the vacuum of space. Sometimes there is no rational reason.

You're very likely on to something here. I think that in the case of SDF Macross, the FAST Packs helped to sell the VF-1 as an all-environment fighter. The VF-1 looks much more like a science fiction fighter all decked out in the "Super" variant for space flight and much less like an "F-14 in space."

Exactly. And like I said, I think the VF-1 FAST packs make the most sense in practical terms. To me a VF-1 looks the most like what a regular atmospheric fighter jet would look like if Nasa and the military worked together to make it space faring.

But ever since the VF-1 I think the FAST packs have been more of a novelty than anything. The kid inside us says, "what good is a Valkyrie if it can't be supe'd up with extra armor?", even if that armor's performance enhancing nature is a mystery. FAST packs have become a Macross tradition and will likely continue to be designed for Valks that don't necessarily need them. They hold extra missiles, and mostly look cool, and that's why they're there. Much like how explosions in space sound cool and that's why we hear them even though space is a vacuum.

And in Macross Plus we saw how they make good explosive eye candy when they become parts that can be damaged and jettisoned into a fiery eruption without damaging the actual Valk. Maybe the 19 and 21's FAST packs were designed from the get-go to be parts that Isamu and Guld could destroy in battle without crippling each other's Valks and wrecking a good fight scene.

I can answer that first one:

Because it's a cartoon and water seeping out of a bullet hole wouldn't be very spectacular.

I tend to agree here. It's the same reason why we hear the sounds of lasers and explosions in virtually all fictional space combat scenes, (Macross, Star Wars, BSG, etc). It's dramatic effect and entertainment more than rational science. Explosions simply look and sound cool.

I think the purpose of FAST packs themselves sometimes falls under the same category. Besides housing more verniers and firepower, I doubt they have much practical use besides looking cool. They made sense on a VF-1, but I think they are more of a novelty and a Macross tradition on other Valkyries.