masarujasu

2 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Here another tidbit I was not aware of. The first run Matsushiro Jetfires came with this catalog and not the standard version.

That's the 1986 European catalog. 

15 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Interesting.  
 

i just came across this new listing where the seller states the first run or edition of the VF-1S DYRL is left from the VF-1S Super from Takatoku. Never heard of this before. Anybody want to chime in.

 

I think there is a little truth to this - yes, the first edition was made from the inventory Takatoku had produced (via Matsushiro) whilst they were slated to produce the DYRL figures. 

"In May 1984, Takatoku filed for bankruptcy. As fate would have it, however, they were about to put the toys of the film "Macross: Do You Remember Love" on the market. After Takatoku's bankruptcy, the valkyrie molds scaled 1/55 were entrusted to the official manufacturer, namely Matsushiro..."

It could be argued this inventory was very much 'Super' stock rather than 'Strike' stock, as the interviews in Figure King and Tamashii Web indicate that the decision to market the Strike, and the naming of the Strike was something that happened under Bandai's tenure. However, it also appears that the early Strikes were painted under Takatoku's watch, so they presumably had knowledge of the DYRL color scheme and designs, and were producing something somewhat new for the toyline to tie-in the movie. In lieu of Bandai's direction and hypothetically, if Takatoku never went bust it might have been called Super something, but who is to know? 

"It should also be remembered that, when we began discussing the distribution of the Hi-Metal version, we discovered that Matsushiro still had a lot of inventory available. So some of the Strike Valkyrie were distributed with Bandai stickers covering the Takatoku writings."

"Super Valkyrie and Armored Valkyrie were made by Mr. Takatokutois, and I thought that they wouldn't want the same thing. In that case, I decided that it would be better to do the movie version of Valkyrie, which was the latest work at the time."

"The name Strike Valkyrie wasn't there from the beginning. But if you change the product name to Super Valkyrie, it will be the same as the previous product. I wanted to make a difference. One more thing, just like the F-14 fighter has a nickname of Tomcat, wouldn't it be nice to have a name for each model of the Valkyrie? There was also an idea. So I consulted with Mr. Kawamori, and what he gave me was "Strike Valkyrie". Mr. Kawamori also named the Super Ostrich and Elint Seeker that were released after that."

From these citations, regarding the claim, I think that:

1 - the early Strikes were made from inventory left behind from Takatoku's bankruptcy

2 - they are not actually leftovers from any released toyline i.e., the Super

However, earlier in this thread @jvmacross said that the early Strikes were repaints of Takatoku Supers. @jvmacross did you mean they were yellow Supers literally repainted over in red, or just repaints in the sense of 'same toy, different deco'?

@nightmareB4macross on page 3 you mentioned a rare white Takatoku VF-1S you had which was red painted over yellow chest. Do you still have this? A clue to this question perhaps?

On other claims, are these the rarest of the rare? I don't think so. Might they be sought after for being 1st gen? Sure.

With regards to eggshell, I do feel that the TT stamped white Valks are a different shade of white. I think the Bandai version are a more brilliant, but 'colder' white. But this is really anecdotal, I'd like to hear other opinions on this claim.

9 hours ago, Shawn said:

Did anyone here win that?

No, but I own two if you have any questions about it.

Just now, dtwn said:

Ah, the one I went to was a different Yaohan. Hmm, should have been old enough to remember it though, it's odd that I don't recall seeing it at all.

If you need someone to pick it up and send it to you in Melb, let me know.

I think I've met a guy who knows you. He said there was a guy in Aus who was crazy about every version of Jetfire.

Appreciate the help, because Carousell seems mostly for meet up, so difficult to get sellers to send overseas. I am actually not the crazy one, if anyone is crazy about Jetfire and has shelves full of them and lives in Aus, it would be Cory who lives on the opposite coast.

24 minutes ago, dtwn said:

Hmm, that would make sense. Japanese department store that operated from the 70s-90s in Singapore. I used to go in almost weekly but I don't recall seeing them. Do you know when they bought it?

I posed the question in a facebook group last night. One response I received below, which is the second reference to Yaohan I've seen, the first was directly from the Carousell sales post I linked earlier:

11 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Good thing I just got my first cup of coffee. 
 

Seriously, I can’t express enough just how grateful I am that you compiled all this great information into such an informative article.

Thank you.

I'm thrilled to contribute!

17 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

FYI-missed this box on your page.

Thanks, I had a link to it at the end of the third paragraph. There's wasn't enough notable about the MB to warrant a section, unlike the Canadian release which had the missiles etc. to discuss. 

Edit: Okay, I think I can worm something in.

Edit: Okay, got an image in and two links total to 20th century.

Hey you know someone contacted me today with photos of a Hasbro Standard label that came with a Matsu. Added a paragraph on that.

4 hours ago, dtwn said:

I'm located in Singapore and I can say that growing up (80s-90s), I never saw a Macross toy in typical toy stores.

There was just one guy said he got it at Yaohan in SG.

4 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Very strange. 
 

The mystery continues.

I love it.

Did the owner provide locations of where these were purchased? Often the buyer recalls the location or store and that could be corroborated with other who had the same experience with these gift sets.

You’re an awesome super sleuth!

Keep it up.

Not explicitly, but all three of the Strike Box + Jetfire Combos have turned up in Singapore.

On 11/2/2022 at 10:16 AM, nightmareB4macross said:

Very impressive compilation of Jetfire facts. It looks like you really deep dove into the subject headfirst and didn’t come up for air útil now. Kudos for doing such a diligent and detailed job.

I do have to say there is one entry that does not seem to fit and that is the Jetfire in StrikeValkyrie box. Not to say it never existed but I have only seen  (and claimed) people use the empty box to store their Jetfire when the 1S went missing. Never came across a mint listing or specimen with that particular combo stating that was how it was bought. But then again stranger and rarer items have been found.

All in all, this is a fantastic article.

Thank you so much for your exhaustive efforts.

Thank you. It's a relief to get this brain-dump done and dusted.

Yes, agree this is a strange and contentious one. The extrapolation I made is from the other surplus Jetfires without armor. Not to be argumentative, because I respect your opinion and knowledge on the matter, I will put the references here and hopefully over time we can gather enough evidence to prove this avenue.

https://www.carousell.sg/p/vintage-collectible-complete-set-macross-1-55-vf-1s-strike-valkyrie-bandai-hi-metal-1124497437/

Quote

 

- Purchased in the 80s, from Yaohan in Singapore
- Made in Japan
- Favourite toy in my childhood, handled with extreme care
- All parts complete, no missing component 
- All mechanism works, even the joints have crisp "clicking" sound when moving
- Probably one of the very rare complete sets you can find now on the market
- Comes with original box and green manual

Time to let it go as I am moving house and need to clear space. Looking for fellow vintage collector who appreciates and will take good care of it.

 

Reasons I believe this could be legit surplus:

• Smooth box
• Tatsunoko Pro sticker
• Strike stickers on body and armor
• Takatoku instructions
• Owner claim of witnessing purchase

https://www.carousell.sg/p/macross-strike-valkyrie-1125376618/

Reasons I believe this could be legit surplus:

• Smooth box
• Tatsunoko Pro sticker looks to have been there but removed
• Strike stickers on body and armor
• Takatoku instructions

https://www.carousell.sg/p/vintage-toy-vf-1s-strike-valkyrie-256734215/

Reasons I believe this could be legit surplus:

• Smooth box
• Tatsunoko Pro sticker
• Takatoku instructions
• MIB Unused

https://www.carousell.sg/p/vintage-macross-vf-1s-strike-valkyrie-243517863/

Above two links of Strikes just to show that they seemed to be packed with the Takatoku manual.

https://www.carousell.ph/p/macross-vf-1s-strike-valkyrie-1-55-scale-150106551/

Mismatched armor referred to as early 90s by seller.

And the owner of this image below told me they had all been purchased as is: 

Quote

 

Yes I do have some Elints and Strikes toy boxes with the Jetfire body and armor in them.

From what I can remember when I bought these back in the day, most of the Elints and Strikes were packaged correctly but some were not which included the Jetfire body/armor in them.  I was really just buying as many as I could because I wanted more of these toys and that they were excellent designed transformable figures.  So that said, I do have some that have the Jetfire body/armor but I mostly have them correctly boxed.

 

Thank you for the high praise. Almost everything has already been discovered and recorded by others. I've just put it in one place, and pinned the red string so to speak.

I finally completed the article on Jetfire that I'd promised nearly a year ago. I had to quit World of Warcraft to do it! Anyway, please have a look.

http://tfscraps.blogspot.com/2022/10/the-40th-anniversary-of-valkyrie.html

Many thanks to TheLoneWolf and nightmareB4macross for their discussions here, and pointing me to the appropriate threads.

17 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

https://20thcenturytoycollector.com/posts/category/transformers/page/2/
 

There is a ton a of great information found here.

The 'made in Macau' bit is a heading under the Ultra Magnus blog entry, those figures were also available in the US distribution. The Jetfire blog entry is separate and links to a full article where the author writes that the 1985 (MB) and 1986 (Hasbro) branded figures are the same Bandai toys. I don't think I've ever heard of Jetfire being made in Macau, although it's well known in the Transformers community that Takara was sending/sourcing TF molds all over the place for different reasons (Taiwan, Korea, Macau, China, France, Mexico, South America etc.), I don't think Bandai necessarily followed suit.

https://20thcenturytoycollector.com/posts/2012/05/12/transformers-jetfire/

On 4/14/2022 at 5:20 AM, nightmareB4macross said:

Very comprehensive research. So much fun to read.  Are you still working on or planning on writing an article of all your findings?

When referring to the European version are you talking about the Milton Bradley Jetfire produced in Macau?

Yeah, still on my to do list. I'm not aware of a Jetfire release made in Macau. Can you elaborate on that?

On 11/19/2021 at 2:40 AM, TheLoneWolf said:

Amazing, you've done fantastic research into this! I completely agree with your assessment that there were multiple photo shoots for Jetfire taking place at different times.

And thank you for providing sources to back up your theory; it's hard to argue with dated pictures. Have you ever considered doing a comprehensive write-up of all your findings? G1 Jetfire's history is one of the most complicated around and it'd be nice to find everything in one (long) article.

Yes! I have considered it. I've just written a massive essay on Shockwave which was essentially Jetfire's Christmas '84 nemesis, and researching the former has uncovered a lot for me about the latter. I think it would be fitting to do the same for Jetfire.

One thing I dropped the ball on re: the photoshoot discussion - Jetfire actually does come with little red decals (2 ovals/2 circles), but they are really badly cut and the Kaufmann specimen looks to have a cleaner and fuller set used for whatever shoot it was involved in. I photographed a freshly applied decal from a spare sheet below to illustrate how bad it looks.

So that raises a doubt on whether the Sears photo shoot was with Hasbro-supplied photography or done in-house, because any retailer can apply these decals if they are fastidious enough. Though many are not, for example, Argos catalogs missing key decals on Jetfire, as well as erroneous toy configurations on other figures:

• https://retromash.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ArgosPage4.jpg
• https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/25/00/5d2500c13d735b46a8b84a8e49367b3c.jpg

So to fill the gap we really can only look at other Hasbro issued documentation, this time the 1985 European catalog, where Jetfire is actually the Autobot leader (due to Optimus Prime's rights sitting with another company at the time). https://www.battlegrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/transformers.jpg 

This is different photography from the 1985 US catalog. An easy tell is the missing stickers on the dorsal fast packs. This photoshoot took place at the same location that Hasbro used for the 1984 toy-fair catalog. So it's a different shoot - but not due to geography - it's still at USA HQ. 

So to summarize known shoots:

• Packaging
• 1985 pre toy fair
• 1985 US catalog (same as 1986)
• 1985 Euro catalog

On 1/1/2021 at 10:10 AM, TheLoneWolf said:

I have no idea, I've wondered about that myself.

On a somewhat related note, here's an article about a Jetfire was used in Hasbro's photoshoots. I expected it to be a cousin to my Matsushiro Super VF-1S and be a Matsushiro Jetfire, but it's actually a Bandai branded Jetfire, as evidenced by the unlined canopy and the Bandai branded backplate! And it's legitimate because it came directly from Hasbro with a certificate of authenticity. I had always assumed that the Matsushiro branded Jetfires were the first releases of Jetfire, with the Bandai branded ones being manufactured afterwards, but this photoshoot Jetfire turns that notion on its head.

The only explanations I can think of are these:

• That Jetfire was used in later photoshoots, with a Matsushiro branded Jetfire being used in earlier photoshoots. I can't imagine Hasbro requiring multiple photoshoots at different time periods for the same children's toy, but maybe?

• Bandai was manufacturing both Matsushiro and Bandai branded Jetfires alongside each other at the same time in their factory, which would make aging these toys incredibly difficult for collectors.

Collecting and/or writing about Jetfire involves going down an insanely deep rabbit hole, complete with loops, twists, and turns

That's an interesting question, I wonder if anyone has done the research on that one before.

Anyways, Happy New Year everyone!

I am inclined to agree with the first scenario.

There is evidence of multiple shoots for Jetfire at different times, with specimens prepared by Hasbro.

The first being the toy and transformation photography on the packaging, that uses a Takatoku base figure with ridged antenna, sharp nosecone, lined canopy (painted black), painted leg fins, and even a missile in the gun. But the key points are the ovular 'openings' on the nosecone the circular 'openings' on the the hip beside the main intake. They are painted red. I say 'opening' because I am unsure if these are nozzles/thrusters/intakes/sensors in the Macross canon.

Next, the 1985 pre toy fair catalog uses two typical Matsushiros (one boxed) with painted red opening on the nosecone. The one near the intake is unclear. http://obscuretf.com/hhk/images/full/USPRETF1985f.jpg

After that, the pack-in 1985 catalog, the specimens (2) used here are a Matsu/Bandai transitional figure. Clear striped canopy, smooth antenna, stubbed nosecone, Matsu sprue legs, pre-rubsign, (probably Bandai undated stamp). Again, the two openings are painted(?) red. https://tfarchive.com/toys/catalogues/generationone_catalogue/85a_catalog.jpg

The specimen showcased on the TFSource article is not any of the above. The red openings on the nosecone is a sticker that has been applied, so assume the same of the red openings near the intake. This may indicate that on previous examples this was a sticker as well. https://tfsource.com/blog/2018/09/14/collector-interview-72-jeremy-kaufmann/

In the 1985 Sears catalog, https://www.battlegrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/sears1985.jpg the Jetfire looks to be photography prepared by Hasbro as the openings are again red and the figure is fully decaled. But this is a different specimen with unlined canopy and a rubsign. Contrast that with the JCPenney catalog that looks like they did their own photography without applying any decals or enhancements. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUHx0U1X0AUlW-m?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

My conclusion is that when preparing a figure for a shoot, there are some tweaks done by Hasbro to improve the visual appeal of the figure, I.e. the red details. This is consistent with the authenticated figure from the TFSource article, although it is unclear which specific paperwork this specimen ended up on. And, Jetfire has been photographed multiple times, using the available figure variants at the time.

On 10/20/2021 at 2:21 AM, nightmareB4macross said:

This is the first time I have ever seen this combination. It’s very hard to say it didn’t happen as stranger things have been found. It just seems odd to find a 1990 box with 1984-85 figure inside.

Have you ever pulled the item from the packaging? Might be good to document this.

I slid a mirror under to view the stamp because I am reluctant to break the seal and remove the figure. It's a standard earlier undated BANDAI.

14 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

These appear to be the same as the Bandai prototypes XsToys displayed year ago.

It's crazy how this stuff can pop up 15 years later. I wish I'd had sprung for a 1A to have one of each headsculpt.

29 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

This is the first time I have ever seen this combination. It’s very hard to say it didn’t happen as stranger things have been found. It just seems odd to find a 1990 box with 1984-85 figure inside.

Have you ever pulled the item from the packaging? Might be good to document this.

Not yet. I took a look and assumed it was undated BANDAI, and since the tape was firm I put it away. I will come up with a way to unpeel one side and remove it without snapping the foam strap. It's almost worn through in the center.

Yeah, it is odd I agree. If that Pony Go Round business really happened mid 90s then it's possible there were Transformers leftovers when this Super was released.

Speaking of leftovers, this YAJ seller has been offloading the following vintage surplus parts for years and years, which supports the idea that Bandai pushed a whole bunch of factory surplus onto the market.

https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/seller/dstatumi?sid=dstatumi&b=1&n=50

• Strike Legs
• Takatoku GBP sets
• Transformers Roadbuster figures w/accesories (Bandai) ex Takatoku Mugen Calibur
• Transformers Deluxe Insecticon sealed manual/weapons bags (Bandai) ex Takatoku Beetras

I have one more piece of real estate to cover up. 

Maybe 2 or 3 years ago I picked up on YAJ this super yellow Jetfire, but oddly it had been strapped into a 1990s Bandai foam/box.

Though yellow, the thing is absolutely pristine as far as glossy shine goes. Thought this might have been some internal test piece. The gun/clip is from the 1990.

I messed up and triple submitted the above reply. I'll use this real estate to ask another question.

In May 2019, some 'prototypes' appeared on YAJ. I saved all the auction photos, bought a few for myself, for illustration purposes I've added some pics below. I also submitted all the auctions to web archive for posterity at the time, thinking they may be significant.

In all, 12 specimens. New head sculpts, painted, with a painted pilot in the cockpit. Base figure is 2001 China.

I wanted to know if anyone had seen the specimens that xstoys brought to the MWCon in 2004, in person. Those figures appeared to have unpainted heads, but no close ups were ever shared. Even though I certainly thought I could see some key indicators from the convention photos, they are extremely small and not definitive. Can anyone corroborate whether these look like they are related to those unpainted prototypes?

On 12/28/2020 at 4:25 PM, jenius said:

Here are the known first issuance dates:

Bandai DYRL VF-1S Strike Hikaru: October 1984, 4,980¥
Bandai DYRL VF-1A Hikaru: January 1985 3,980¥
Bandai DYRL VT-1 SuperOstrich: April 1985, 4,980¥
Bandai DYRL VE-1 Elintseeker: June 1985 4,980¥

Does anyone know when Matsuhiro did their first run of Jetfire?

I would suggest that the 1S and 1A toys were released three times (or more). 1) Takatoku stamp with Bandai sticker and textured box. 2) Bandai stamp and textured box, 3) Bandai stamp and smooth box. I doubt the second releases happened before the VT/VE-1 toys due to how tight the schedule is, I would guess instead that the box manufacturer made more of what they did the first time for the second release and then were specifically told on the third time to drop the texture to save some yen. 

The Takatoku Super Valkyrie was released in February 1984. Since this was the first Fast Pack version of the 1/55, it's reasonable to say that this must have been the figure that Hasbro 'discovered' and decided to bring into the Transformers line, and the party they dealt with in the first instance must have been Takatoku.

There is a product briefing document for their 1985 product line which has character bio and sample photos dated 30th April 1984. Though the photos are terribly reproduced in the scans, you can see that the Jetfire sample is the pointy nosed Takatoku figure. Also, by this point Hasbro had already decided on the sticker design, I.e. the diagonally striped feet stickers are visible, as well as the Autobot stickers on the booster armor. Indeed, by this point the instruction manual (which encompasses the sticker application) has been finalized. This implies a period of development that could only have begun after the release of the Super. Takatoku went bankrupt on May 25th 1984. Matsushiro took over the relationship. See TheLoneWolf's Matsu stamped Super in a Jetfire POC package.

It is typical for Hasbro to do safety/drop tests and request modifications. This is certainly the reason for the nosecone change, Mr. Morishima confirmed that Matsushiro did this change for overseas, I.e., Hasbro. Probably the reason for the antenna change, as this only transitioned within the Jetfire series, and probably the reason for the addition of dated copyrights. (Hasbro requested copyrights be added to TF toys by Takara in their contracts). This will also be why Matsushiro filed patent in April 1984 (on behalf of Takatoku but at the request of Hasbro).

As stated above, the DYRL Strike was released October 1984, notable for still being TT stamped. Mr. Morishima said that when Bandai took over the DYRL project, he added the heat shield and asked Mr. Kawamori to coin new names such as Strike, to differentiate it from the Takatoku Super. Initially, Takatoku was slated to produce these toys before they went bankrupt. "Morishima: Strike Valkyrie, there were drawings and prototypes made by Mr. Takatoku Toys. With that as a reference, Bandai raises the mold. As for the Valkyrie body, Mr. Matsushiro had already produced it, so I used it."

The TF Jetfire, was known to have been on US shelves as early as October 1984 according to print ads. (https://web.archive.org/web/20180112104043/http://pleasesavemerobots.com/vstp/vstptf84.html)

I'm not sure exactly when Matsushiro itself fell into crisis, but obviously there was a point where they were the 'owner' of the mold, hence the removal of TT stamp and replacement with MATSUSHIRO stamp. But given that by the time the first Matsushiro Jetfires were hitting the toy shelves in USA, the boxes/instructions were stating that the toy was a BANDAI product, Matushiro must have hit financial struggles well before any orders were ready to be packed, let alone ship, and transferred ownership to Bandai, while continuing to be responsible for manufacture. After which Bandai was the party that on paper, packed and shipped all orders to Hasbro. Indeed, BANDAI stamped Jetfires already began appearing before the rubsign (heat sticker) was introduced to the toy (I.e., all Matsu Jetfires are prerub, and some BANDAI Jetfires are prerub, and all dated BANDAI Jetfires are rub). Rubsigns were added to TFs before Hasbro merged with Milton Bradley on September 17th 1984, meaning Bandai took over ownership of the mold and became party to the Hasbro deal much earlier than September 1984. (In all likelihood maybe only a couple of months after Matsu took over from Takatoku).

6 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Welcome to the boards.

Great details on another rare find.

for questions to your answers regarding what’s beneath the stickers go here.

 

It only about three or four pages back from this post.

 

Thanks heaps, it's just what I'm looking for.

On 6/6/2020 at 4:26 PM, nightmareB4macross said:

I actually have each of the two versions with Jetfire armor. It’s easy to tell when these are real and not a Frankenstein mash up but I won’t give away the tells. 

Couple of questions:

Do these have the glossy stickers covering the copyright stamps?

If not, what molded stamp is visible?

Relating this to a question I've asked in another thread: 

Many thanks.

I have more questions, regarding the maker's mark/copyright stamping on the 1/55s.

The Big West/Takatoku Toys stamp was drilled out and replaced by the MATSUSHIRO/TOKYO JAPAN stamp, and then the MATUSHIRO was replaced by BANDAI, resulting in BANDAI/TOKYO JAPAN. As far as I'm concerned this is the same piece, modified over time. (So, if limiting to 1S gift sets, these are seen across Super, Strike and Jetfire)

I have two Strikes and I can see that both have the original Big West/Takatoku stamp under the glossy black stickers. These tend to peel up a bit because they don't have a lot of adhesive contact due to the raised lettering.

I have also seen multiple Strikes that have the final BANDAI/TOKYO JAPAN stamp. Does anyone know if this variant normally does not have the glossy black sticker applied? I'd assume no, because I speculate the purpose was to hide the Takatoku aspect of the stamping, and possibly to show the 1984 date (not sure why later stamp okay to not have a date). 

Secondly, on my Ostrich, the glossy white sticker looks to be sitting over the square logo Bandai stamp (which is from a different mold). I can tell it is the square logo by the way the light reflects off it. But, I can't tell if this is the 1984 or 1985 stamp. My guess is that it is the 1984 date, because the sticker says 1985, and the box says 1985, and if the toy stamp said 1985, the sticker would not be necessary. Unless the sticker's purpose was also to show Big West, in which case, refer back to the later sticker-less Strike which has no date and no Big West.

Does anyone know which version of the copyright stamp is under the sticker on the Ostrich and/or Elint?