Seto Kaiba

1 hour ago, Bariaburu Faita said:

In this case, it may be helpful to divide it into what BigWest considers the status of Macross II, and what Kawamori thinks. I think they are not the same.

It is, yes... but neither of them have the views you claim they do.

Big West officially considers Macross II: Lovers Again (and by extension its tie-in games Macross 2036 and Macross: Eternal Love Song) to be a "parallel world"/alternate universe setting.

Kawamori officially doesn't believe in the idea of "canon" and considers all Macross titles including Macross II: Lovers Again to be equally-valid stand-alone stories that dramatize the events of some "true" history.

Neither Big West nor Kawamori think Macross II "belongs somewhere else where fewer people can see it".  The idea that Big West and/or Kawamori disapproved of Macross II was a toxic, baseless rumor that caused no small amount of fighting on these boards and elsewhere.  Big West demonstrably included Macross II and its video-game tie-ins in material that was put together during and after Macross 7, Mikimoto put references to it in Macross 7 Trash and Macross the First, etc. etc.

49 minutes ago, Old_Nash said:

So, it's like the same with Macross 2036 or True Love Song.

Yeah.  They're part of the same parallel world setting Macross II is in Big West's view.

(Though there have been one or two publications like Macross Ace that inadvertently put Macross II in the same timeline with the rest of Macross, with an incorrect date.)

14 minutes ago, Thom said:

The problem I have with that, in both instances, is that these would then not be multi-system empires, which we know is wrong. Both control dozens of systems, and more than likely, they acquired each for the benefits that they hold. One good hit, like Praxis or even the sun of the Romulan's capitol system, should not be enough to cripple them. 

Admittedly, I misremembered the scene from Star Trek VI so I misstated the nature of the Klingon problem.  Allow me to remedy that.

Star Trek's Klingons were always a thinly-veiled allegory for the Soviet Union and the events of Star Trek VI were very much ripped from the headlines... which made the whole schtick a lot more plausible.  The Klingons weren't incapable of solving the problem themselves and had half a century to work on the problem.  Their issue, and the reason they opted to try for peace with the Federation, was that the majority of the Klingon Empire's resources were committed to maintaining its military and they couldn't devote the resources necessary to sort their problem out without compromising their national defense against the Federation and Romulans.

(It's noted in a memo by Ron Moore, the writer who laid down a lot of the setting information for Klingons, that their homeworld is resource-poor.  The Klingon economy isn't quite as robust as the Federation's because of the resources invested in maintaining control over conquered worlds and their native populations and annexing new territory for more resources all the time.  Basically, while the Klingon Empire and Federation are about the same size, the Klingons are a lot less wealthy because of the difference in governmental policies, so their economy couldn't tank the hit of Praxis blowing up without having to divert resources from the military.)

When it came to the Romulans, it made a lot less sense because the Romulans were not as fractious as the Klingons and the disaster was simply the loss of one planet at a time when relations with their neighbors were arguably the best they'd ever been in the wake of the Dominion War.  

1 hour ago, Bariaburu Faita said:

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying, different words with same conclusion.

Well, not quite... but the important bit is that Macross II has never officially been in-universe fiction like DYRL?.  That's just a popular fan theory based on the aforementioned cameos of characters and music in Macross 7.  Officially, it's a "parallel world" timeline and has been since the 90's, though Kawamori's stance is "Canon? What canon?".

4 hours ago, sketchley said:

You are basically disagreeing just to agree with him, you know.

Let's just say I'm gunshy about what happened the last time someone ran with completely the wrong idea about Macross II's status and validity.  

I'm sure you remember why.  The mods sure haven't forgotten. 

4 hours ago, sketchley said:

However, some context: there were numerous non-anime productions developed between the release of DYRL and MII.  They include but aren't limited to publications and video games.

... and this is, of course, ignoring the existence of Flashback 2012, which is more-or-less a sequel.

Flash Back 2012 is more an orphaned epilogue presented as a separate "extra feature".

Novelizations and such aside, the only in-continuity narratives I can recall between DYRL? and II are ones that explicitly tie-into II: Macross 2036 and Eternal Love Song.

4 hours ago, sketchley said:

However, it's accuracy is up for debate (like how Bodoruza's 'cactus' flagship was actually a Beginhill class ship draped in holograms).

Within the alternate context of DYRL? as an in-universe movie, anyway... there have been later stories that presented Boddole Zer's movie mobile fortress as being a real ship class like the second Frontier movie and VF-X.

3 hours ago, Dobber said:

The whole story behind season 1 is just....just so far fetched or nonsensical. The Romulan story and I still can’t get behind Picard’s “protest” as the Federation did attempt to build a rescue fleet and then suffered a devastating  attack that not only destroyed said fleet but also one of if not the main fleeet shipyard and a crucial colony. But the federation is bad because they didn’t want to allocate resources, again, in the wake of that attack.

Yes, the whole Romulus subplot makes very little sense... especially given that Star Trek: Picard stripped away the "exotic" causes and effects of the supernova that destroyed Romulus in the J.J. Abrams movies, reducing it from a sudden and unanticipated threat that obliterated many star systems and threatened the entire galaxy to having years of warning about a disaster 100% localized to the Romulan system.  I get the feeling that change in scale was made AFTER they conceived of this subplot and made it the foundation of season one.

Instead, the Romulans are an interstellar power rivaling the Federation for scale and power who can't evacuate one planet given years of advance notice.

Quote

Just dumb politics being forced in. I couldn’t watch more of the show beyond ep 3 or 4  but from what you guys wrote wasn’t the android threat valid too in the end?

Uh-huh... and it's not really any better thought out.

23 minutes ago, Thom said:

Not to mention that, just like in Undiscovered Country, the Romulans, like the Klingons, can't seem to take care of themselves in the face of a crisis. Like the Federation, the Romulans have dozens, if not hundreds, of worlds and yet they are suddenly unable to handle a crisis without Federation help.

The Klingon one was way more plausible.  It wasn't that the Klingons couldn't evacuate Qo'nos, it was that their economy had been so devastated by the Praxis disaster and so war-focused that they didn't have the means to repair the damage to their homeworld and they needed Federation help to clean it up... like the Chernobyl disaster it was based on for the Soviet Union.

59 minutes ago, jenius said:

Harmony Gold doesn't make video games or comics. I don't know how the comic book industry works but I imagine it's like other merchandise where someone says "Hey, can I use your name and characters and give you a cut?" HG then says "Sure" and can either insist on the project being some level of quality.. or not. They're probably NOT specifying how REMIX or any of those other comics should play out...

Not for Remix or its predecessor... but most of the other post-reboot comics have Tommy Yune listed with a writer's credit.

Your description is fundamentally accurate for licensing in general and most old Robotech comics in particular, but there was that decade or so in the 2000s where HG really was trying to give a damn about their work.

1 hour ago, Thom said:

On the other hand, having a hero figure, even Picard, never stumble or fail, whether that be some great achievement or small personal belief, can get pretty boring. And unbelievable. People get old. People tire. They can get weary standing tall on the line year after year, decade after decade, especially if they end up standing alone. At some point, our heroes have to suffer a crisis of faith, otherwise they are no longer as human as the rest of us.

This is true, and we've seen Picard falter and even fail to live up to his ideals before... but it's a question of magnitude.  

Picard's various lapses in connection with the Borg are at least logical within his narrative and characterization.  Him having a breakdown about having been assimilated and forced to destroy a Starfleet armada while at his family's place in France, being on the receiving end of a "what the hell, hero" over his willingness to go along with an attempted Borg genocide ("I, Borg"), or his lapses of temper in First Contact fit with who he is and why.  The same with his traumas involving the losses of the Stargazer and the Enterprise-D, or how he's highly uncomfortable pursuing a relationship with Dr. Crusher because she's his dead best friend's widow and he's arguably indirectly responsible for her husband's death.  The reasoning in these failures, stumbles, and lapses makes sound narrative sense and builds his character.

What they did in Star Trek: Picard doesn't scan.  At all.

It makes sense that he would feel guilty about Data's death and would be interested in seeing to the wellbeing of Data's "children".  But the whole humiliation conga involving him and the Romulans, him and Musiker, etc. don't make any narrative sense within the context of the show itself.

For instance, why is it Jean-Luc Picard's fault that Musiker was dismissed from Starfleet?  It doesn't make any internal sense even if you count expanded universe material.  He resigned in protest over the suspension of aid to the Romulans and she still had a career when he was gone.  They didn't fire her because he quit.  She acted out and lost her security clearance and then her commission, drank heavily, used drugs, and drove her family away by acting like a paranoid, drug-fueled, alcoholic nutjob.  How is any of that Picard's fault?  Yet the Star Trek: Picard TV series tries to have the audience accept that every single one of the poor life choices Musiker made in the fourteen years between Picard's resignation and the series is somehow Picard's fault and that he should be sorry for it.  The same goes for the Federation banning "synths".  Jean-Luc Picard was a staunch advocate for the rights of artificial life in his Starfleet career right up to its end and even after.  Yet somehow he's supposed to be in the wrong because the Federation decided without him to ban artificial lifeform research in the wake of a devastating terrorist attack?  It's a democracy.  Picard isn't King, yet somehow we're supposed to feel this is a personal failure on his part?  Especially when they tie it into the death of Will and Deanna's first kid who coincidentally could've been saved if only the Federation hadn't banned the treatment for his life-threatening illness as part of banning all synthetic life forms.

It doesn't scan.  It does not make narrative sense.  The series incessantly tries to tell the audience that Jean-Luc Picard is this awful, entitled, privileged, negligent person for seemingly nothing more than having not prevented things that were not in his power to prevent.  It's just asinine.

46 minutes ago, Bariaburu Faita said:

When MII was first introduced, it was the official true sequel and actually happened. After Kawamori got back into Macross7 it was retconed to be in universe fiction. At the Macross Museum Kawamori stated that it was a parallel universe. Now, the most current published timelines include MII as actually happening.

Except for that first sentence, this is wrong.

When Macross II was first introduced, it was THE Macross sequel... as in, literally the only one. 

After Kawamori was enticed back to do Macross Plus and Macross 7, it was rebranded as a "parallel world" timeline separate from that of Kawamori's Macross sequels.  That news was dispensed in a few places like a note at the end of the OVA's novelization.  Officially, at least as far as Big West goes, it seems to retain this "parallel world" status.

Some printed materials from the late 90's into the 2000s list Macross II on the same timeline as all of the other Macross stories.

Kawamori's view is more wooly.  His take, from the Macross Museum, is that he doesn't really believe in canon and that all Macross stories are stand-alone and equally valid.  In the past, he'd opined various things like all Macross stories being dramatizations of a "true" Macross history that amount to much the same thing.

2 hours ago, Gerli said:

And even if they managed to convince BW to show the movie in USA with the "Robotech" names, they are still forced to re-cannon all the shitty comics and sequels with that movie... likely with some time-travel sh*t or something.

... I doubt it'd even faze the Robotech fanbase at this point.

After all, the last Robotech comic's "big reveal" was that there's an entire Robotech multiverse full of different "bad future" parallel universes spawned by the many iterations of a time loop in which the SDF-3 accidentally travels back in time and crashes on Earth in 1999 to be mistaken for "Zor's Battlefortress".  It presents all of the different failed Robotech projects as parallel worlds created by different iterations of the time loop.  At the end of said comic, they apparently break the time loop and are headed for a future that isn't shite... but they got cancelled so y'know, best future.

27 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Sony was probably buying Toby Maguire happiness playing Spidey for another movie or two.  EDIT - I don't remember if this "deal" was after the Toby Spidey movies were done or not.

It was after... but also with a different studio entirely.

The Hollywood Reporter reported that Warner Bros had acquired the Robotech movie rights on 7 Sept 2007 and asserted that Tobey Maguire was going to both produce and start in the film.  Maguire was the only person actually mentioned in connection with the project who actually was connected to it in the capacity reported, however briefly.  Everything after that turned out to be fake news.

Spider-Man 3 starring Tobey Maguire came out in May 2007, but that was a Columbia/Sony project.

Sony Pictures didn't acquire the Robotech license until about nine years later in 2016, a few years after Warner Bros allowed their license to expire.

27 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

About shitty comics ruining a franchise - it wasn't JUST the shitty comics, it was the shitty attempts at new animation that truly did that particular "franchise" in.

To be fair, that "franchise" came pre-ruined thanks to the delusional egomaniac who was in charge of it and flew both of its immediate sequel projects into the ground.

The shitty comics only emerged like maggots on a fresh corpse after that self-aggrandizing hack finished Kevork-ing the animated series.

2 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

One of the head honchos at HG green lighting  a lot of those comics also came from the comic book industry.  His main talent was drawing close approximations of Macross characters   It’s been the go to medium of choice when their TV and film projects stalled or got unceremoniously cancelled.

It's been their medium of choice because it's the only way they can inexpensively do a narrative involving the Macross character and designs the fanbase loves so much... video games take years and millions of dollars, but you can fart out a bad comic in a couple weeks and fairly cheaply.

1 minute ago, JB0 said:

We've spent two decades watching a succession of drama-bombs from these two franchises' legal situation. Where the heck are we supposed to get our legal soap opera now?

Tune in to the BattleTech and MechWarrior fans losing their goddamn minds over this one.

It's like watching the Q-Anon nutjobs go at it, but with giant robots. 

3 hours ago, Keith said:

I don't even think they'd have to hijack it, it's highly likely Sony's involvement in the resolution came about because they thought they bought a "Macross" movie from HG, only to realize they were locked into the non-Macross dregs of "Robotech."

Nah, a big outfit like Sony Pictures has a veritable battalion of top-flight attorneys specializing in contract and IP law.

If Sony Pictures didn't know what it was buying because Harmony Gold misrepresented things, the story we'd be reading wouldn't be "Harmony Gold bends the knee to Big West".  It would be "Sony Pictures sues Harmony Gold into oblivion for contract fraud".

Where the disconnect between the news that Sony, like WB before them, acquired a Robotech movie license is the misguided belief that studios only buy the rights to properties when they're absolutely going to use those rights to make a movie.  Which isn't the case, obviously.  Most of the licenses these studios acquire never see the light of day and expire without the studio taking any kind of action at all.  Often, rights to related properties get snapped up if a rival studio has success with a particular story... and that's what got Robotech picked up.  It's a product of Paramount's success with Transformers, not any actual belief that Robotech is viable.

Sony would, I'm sure, be much happier with the prospects of a live-action Macross movie in partnership with Big West than a Robotech movie given the massive difference in the level of brand awareness between the two... but I doubt they'd be particularly confident even in Macross because of how poorly anime adaptations do in general.  Even beloved titles which were cultural icons in the 90's like Ghost in the Shell failed to break even.  Basically, Sony might see Macross as worth taking a risk on but I don't think they'd find the kind of massive budget they'd need to do the job right.  Robotech, on the other hand, well... let's just say it's not an accident this movie proposal has been kicking around for 14 years without even a single iota of forward movement.

3 hours ago, Bolt said:

Supposedly that would be Sony trying to bring a dead horse back from the grave. 
Wouldn't it be funny if BW did a Macross live action instead 

Big West tossed the idea around back in the mid-90's in cooperation with Galaxy Films, but nothing ever came of it except a rough script.

IMO, it'd be f*cking hilarious if Big West hijacked Harmony Gold's live action Robotech movie proposal and got Sony to make a Macross movie instead.  

So I'm a Spider, So What? is back after a brief hiatus.  The story's finally at the point where Things Actually Happen, so I'm keen to see if it becomes less of a slog.

My Hero Academia's fifth season has started airing.  Endeavour's finally getting some character development after becoming the No.1 Hero and getting b*tchslapped around by a high spec Nomu.  

Quite excited for the return of Zombie Land Saga in its seconds season, titled Zombie Land Saga Revenge.  The first season was excellent, so I have very high hopes for this one.

Bleh-tier isekai continues to be shoveled into the release schedule.  How Not To Summon a Demon Lord Omega and I've Been Killing Slimes for 300 Years and Maxed Out My Level both just started airing.

Still fumbling my way though Ben-to.  If this show had an actual plot to connect to I get the feeling I'd be a lot more interest in it, but if there is one it's so well hidden that it feels like everything in the five episodes I've seen so far is just random unconnected events.

We all know already.

4 hours ago, tekering said:

Ironically enough, I would've found it much easier to accept Picard as its own thing, if only it hadn't tried so hard to piss all over the legacy of The Next Generation.

Or, really, Star Trek as a whole.  I have no idea why Kurtzman et. al. are so determined to make Gene Roddenberry's optimistic spacefuture into yet another Star Wars-y dystopian space hellscape.  It just doesn't work.  It doesn't let these new shows hit any of the sweet spots that make Star Trek enjoyable.  If we wanted to watch poorly-constructed misery porn all we'd have to do is turn on any network news broadcast... and we don't even have to pay for those.

4 hours ago, tekering said:

Without TNG baggage, it's just harmless crap; but bring Picard et.al into it, and it's downright offensive. 

IMO, even with Picard in it, it would've been harmless crap or potentially even almost watchable if Patrick Stewart were actually in character at any point.

The Jean-Luc Picard we know and love is the man who repeatedly stood up to the Starfleet brass on sentient rights issues, who stood by his principles to the bitter end every time they were challenged, and who wasn't at all afraid to say "Screw the rules, we're doing what's right".  I don't know who this other character Patrick Stewart is playing in Star Trek: Picard is... but it's not Jean-Luc.  It's some sniveling Pakled doing a very poor Jean-Luc Picard impersonation.

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

[...] Those things you’re excited about that might happen because of this agreement?  It’s just a continuation of what HG has been trying to do with the franchise this whole time.  Toby Macquire was the only actor playing Spider-Man in film when the Robotech movie was first announced.  Since then, HG has went year after year teasing everyone that various big name people at the time or someone at the high point of their career were talked to possibly getting involved it and then unceremoniously dropped and replaced with someone else.  The last person in the spotlight that I can remember was the director of the Aquaman film.  No effort made in other areas for it.

If anything, that's putting it rather mildly.

Practically every piece of news about the proposed Robotech live-action movie has turned out to be massively exaggerated or entirely fake.

Over the years, Harmony Gold has claimed that Lawrence Kasdan¹, Alfred Gough and Miles Millar², and Tom Rob Smith³ were attached to write the film.  None of them are.  They'd only written story treatments for a modest (and we're talking "a few grand" modest) fee and had no idea their names were being used to promote the project.  Every director who's been allegedly tapped to direct it - Sylvain White⁴, Nic Mathieu⁵, James Wan⁶, and Andy Muschietti⁷ - turned out to have only been "approached" about the film informally and did not make any commitment to it as they'd already been signed by other, bigger-name productions.  The closest any of them got to actually saying anything about it was when Andy Muschietti said the film was going to be extremely difficult to get funded because of Robotech's lack of popularity and the need for an excessively high budget to do it justice.

1. Most famous for writing Star Wars: the Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars: Return of the Jedi.
2. Most famous for co-creating the long-running DC Superman TV series Smallville.
3. A small-time, incredibly niche author whose bizarrely specialized practice consists almost exclusively of writing murder mysteries set in Stalinist Russia.
4. Best known for Stomp the Yard and I'll Always Know What You Did Last Summer.
5. A virgin director who'd only done TV commercials.
6. Best known for Saw, The Conjuring, and the 2018 Aquaman film.
7. Best known for Stephen King's It.

On 4/9/2021 at 12:31 AM, kalvasflam said:

All the way up until the point where those fans are dead.

Personally, I think you've got your character sheets backwards my good chap.

The lifelong and die-hard Trekkies are the ones I've seen most dissatisfied with Star Trek's current direction.  They're the ones who walked away en masse when Star Trek: Discovery's first season laid a massive egg and who CBS was trying to entice to come back with the promise of Christopher Pike, Number One, and Spock in season two.  Star Trek: Picard was a further unsuccessful attempt to drag those fans back which met with further ridicule.  Now Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is ViacomCBS's latest try at standing on the fanbase's lawn with a boombox blaring "Baby Come Back".  

On 4/9/2021 at 12:31 AM, kalvasflam said:

Seriously, how many millennials gives a crack about Star Trek, most of them would like at Kirk as some chauvinistic pig, and Picard as some old white dude who overstayed his welcome.  Don't get me started on Sisko and Janeway, caricature of good minority and a total Karen based on today's view point.  How many people would actually care.  For the viewers that matter (not us mainly), Star Trek shows are like an attempt to resurrect the dead which needs to be put down.

Y'know, using the word "millennial" makes almost any argument that much harder to take seriously.  Just saying.  It's weird, but there's a strong statistical correlation between the people who complain about millennials and blissful unawareness of the actual problem.

Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard are shows very definitely crafted around the wants and needs of the memetic and strictly-imaginary "millennial" viewer.  You know the type I mean.  You can almost see the writer's room is full of doddering old executives and painfully out-of-touch Hollywood writers asking themselves "What do the youth like?", with an incredibly unrealistic and jaundiced eye view developed mainly from the most ridiculous trending Twitter topics like "is it sexist to only drink milk from female cows?".

They developed Discovery and Picard for an audience that flat-out doesn't exist.  Not for Star Trek fans, or even casual Star Trek viewers. 

The only one that's really developed with Trek fans in mind is Lower Decks.

On 4/9/2021 at 12:31 AM, kalvasflam said:

ST:P is just another example of this.  A nasty old man trying to keep up with the times and clinging on to whatever little dignity he has left trying to live 30 years in the past.

Not quite how the showrunners explained it... not that their explanation was any better.

As they had it, Picard was a "privileged white male" who had to be "humbled" to really be an ally to minorities... even though it's a plot point in the show itself that he sacrificed his whole Starfleet career, his life and livelihood, to help the Romulans.

Kind of an insult to literally everything the man did in-universe in his Starfleet career, but whatever.

6 minutes ago, Thom said:

Well, if they had wanted to focus on all new characters, then they should have left out Picard... Or just had him be a guest every now and then. Once the Big Guy is there though, the next question is just naturally, 'who else is going to show?' One follows the others.

Yeah, probably.  But they needed Picard to try and draw the Star Trek fans back to watch the adventures of the show's pretense of aracially and sexually-diverse new cast who were quickly revealed to be built on an assortment of shallow racist tropes from the 60's that make the show almost as cringeworthy as "Code of Honor".

5 minutes ago, Nied said:

Unless this contract has a clause inverting the time-space continuum it'd be pretty odd to talk about past Robotech and Macross projects as future ones.

Robotech routinely tries to present re-releases of decades-old material as "new"... and markets their releases of decades-old material as "never before seen" like putting the cut footage back in Robotech Remastered or the MOSPEADA: Love Live Alive OVA.

Mind you, that's not the point.  The point is that Big West has Harmony Gold's Robotech franchise by the bollocks thanks to those trademarks, so what little Harmony Gold can bring to market RIGHT NOW (the Robotech TV series and its mostly-Macross merchandise line) is under Big West's thumb.  They signed away their future freedom to be allowed to keep doing business in the here and now.

10 minutes ago, Nied said:

My guess is Sony would likely split the difference. Sell the movie as Robotech here in the states and other countries where it's known by that name, and Macross back in Japan and other parts of Asia.

I doubt it.  Robotech is extremely obscure everywhere except South America, and most of the people who are aware it exists have little if nothing nice to say about it.  That's been the case since the nineties, when even advertisements for Macross II got on the bandwagon of "Robotech is old and busted, Macross is the new hotness".

I'd expect, if they can get Big West's consent, the live action movie would be rebranded Macross worldwide.  

15 hours ago, TMBounty_Hunter said:

So BW own the shows, characters, designs, etc, but do they own the songs? Do they partner with Flying Dog to distribute the songs or does Flying Dog own the songs?

I believe Big West owns the songs themselves but it's all exclusively distributed through Victor's FlyingDog.

15 hours ago, TMBounty_Hunter said:

Is this deal gonna unblock Fukuyama Fire on spotify outside Japan and lead to more Macross being added there?

As a direct consequence?  No.  Indirectly?  Yes, it very well could.  I'm not sure if it's on Spotify to ask for the rights to expand the music's distribution or on Big West and FlyingDog to make it clear it's available now.

14 hours ago, Gerli said:

If Small manufacturers are like this guy, I don't think there is gonna be nice things in the future...

Yeah, but if there's a small manufacturer that has comeuppance coming it's certainly that one.

13 hours ago, kajnrig said:

So... HG can't make derivative works based on SDFM/DYRL.

BW can... but BW can't distribute that stuff - if it contains characters and/or mecha designs from SDFM/DYRL - outside Japan without contending with HG's trademark claims, which 1) previously, they were doing so (in the EU, and before/concurrent to that in China) by way of lawsuit claiming original use; and 2) now, by way of some sort of... sublicensing agreement with HG?

Is that about right? All this secondhand legal mumbo-jumbo is as mind-boggling to me as it ever was. I need to see whatever agreement(s) they signed.

So, all in all, Big West can freely use anything from any Macross story in new motion picture works (TV, movie, etc.) because they own the copyrights.  They don't have to worry about HG's trademark claims in any key markets except the US now that they've effectively overturned HG's trademarks everywhere else that matters.  Now that HG is onboard, there are no real obstacles.  HG just gets a little piece of the action in exchange for rubber-stamping whatever Big West wants to distribute in the US.

12 hours ago, JB0 said:

My understanding about the trademark lawsuits is thus:

0: Around the turn of the century, HG starts telling everyone they need to quit bringing Macross merchandise out of Japan because HG actually owns all of Macross and there's no way out without paying them. In spite of Macross II and Macross Plus already being distributed internationally without HG's approval, and Mac Plus toys sitting on shelves across America. This is probably due to plans to bring the original Yamato 1/60 VF-1s to America, which are much nicer than Toynami's Masterpieces.

0.5: Big West is furious about this and adopts a "don't negotiate with terrorists" approach to HG. Any Big West licensee that pays money to HG sees their licenses cancelled, and any manufacturer that does business with HG gets blacklisted from ever doing business with Big West.

1: HG, upon realizing their opponent has a spine and they can't ACTUALLY force Big West to just give them all the Macrosses by saying "we own this, so give it to us", files a bunch of trademarks on everything tangentally-related to Macross everywhere outside Japan explicitly to prevent Big West selling any Macross. HG still doesn't own the copyright to anything or even any distribution rights, but they own trademarks on the word Macross and the UN Spacey logo and a bunch of other important terms and images. Big West is effectively locked out of the international market unless they negotiate with HG. (This is the point where HG starts putting the words "Macross Saga" prominently on their merchandise, to give the appearance of actually using these trademarks for legitimate business purposes.)

Mostly... Harmony Gold actually began applying for trademarks in some areas around the same time they began sending cease and desists to import toy dealers.  Their UK filing was made in 1999, two years before their US filing.

12 hours ago, JB0 said:

3.9: Oh, hey, there's a plague. That's pretty much affected every industry on Earth, including the ones HG and Big West are involved in. I believe both companies suddenly started looking at red ink on their balance sheets and became a lot less interested in stonewalling.

TBH, I'm not sure the coronavirus thing had any significant role to play in it from Big West's end since Japan wasn't hit nearly as hard (thanks to its culturally-ingrained tendency to wear masks when ill or potentially ill).  Harmony Gold probably also wasn't too heavily impacted by it because their audience is tiny and they have nothing going for them outside of print-on-demand home video and streaming.  Nothing of theirs required leaving the house.

10 hours ago, Nied said:

So HG will never make future Robotech works featuring elements from Macross but the reason they'll partner with BW for future Robotech works is because they will feature elements from Macross?

Harmony Gold has never made original Robotech works featuring elements from Macross for copyright reasons, and won't do so in the future either.

The reason Harmony Gold had no choice but to partner with Big West is that Big West now owns the trademarks on the Macross name, logos, key art, etc. in markets outside of the United States.  Harmony Gold used to own those trademarks themselves, and had used them to prevent Macross's sequels from being distributed outside of Japan.  Armed with the trademarks they successfully overturned and took possession of over the last four years, Big West has the legal power to block distribution of the Robotech TV series from most international markets via its "Macross Saga" and to block distribution of the almost exclusively Macross-based Robotech merchandise lines in those markets.  That's pretty much the entirety of Robotech's income cut off in one fell swoop.

Harmony Gold was left with two options:

1. Reach some kind of mutually acceptable accommodation with Big West.
   OR
2. Let Robotech's slow decline continue to accelerate towards its terminal conclusion.

And they chose Option 1.

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

They probably need a new reboot right off the bat just to undo the hot mess Remix left the Robotech universe.

Nah, they'll just say Remix is non-canon like they did to almost all of the other comics.

11 minutes ago, Nied said:

Something else that just occurred to me: If this really is HG abandoning the field and bending the knee and whatever other overwrought metaphor Seto says, why did HG and BW agree to co-produce future Robotech properties?

It doesn't say that either.

Quote

Moving forward, both parties will cooperate on distribution regarding future Macross and Robotech projects for the benefit of both franchises.

And the reason they have to cooperate?  Big West owns a lot of the trademarks that used to belong to Harmony Gold, so HG now needs Big West's permission to use certain terms, logos, etc. in most key markets.

So IF Harmony Gold ever makes anything Robotech again they'll be cooperating with Big West on distribution out of legal necessity.

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

Sure there's a big market there.

But, considering both Ghost In the Shell and Battle Angel didn't shake the islands, and considering the probability hg could beg , borrow or steal their way into a (decent) movie.. it's amusing.

Ah, that's a fair point.  Western adaptations of anime have pretty uniformly been box office failures and tend to do comparatively worse in Asian markets.  I've seen a number of analysis pieces pinning Ghost in the Shell and Alita: Battle Angel's respective failures to break even on lukewarm receptions in China.

It's still a potentially-important agreement to reach, which could translate into millions of box office dollars even for a poor performer.

2 minutes ago, Protoman said:

They didn't. Sony did.

Sony might.  It's still only a proposal.

22 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Another problem with the TV version in regards to scale is lack of detail.  All those smooth flat surfaces do not do it any favors in regards to showing the scale of it.

There was only so much that they could do with the show's budget and the sheer scale of the thing.

It has a fair amount of surface detail in closeups, but from far away those details (realistically) become indistinct on an object as large as it is.

8 minutes ago, Bolt said:

What really tickles me is the idea hg has even made the effort to have the right to show an rt movie in Japan 

The implausibility of the movie ever being made aside, that would actually be a fairly important point for the hopes Harmony Gold pinned on the proposed film.

Japan stands real tall at the box office.  Like, outside the US, Japan is #2 behind China in terms of the yearly box office gross according to the Motion Picture Association's annual report.  (For 2019.  The 2020 numbers are... atypical... for the obvious reason.)

When you consider that Big West potentially had the power to lock a Robotech movie out of Japan, China, and the EU?  That's the top two non-US markets plus five of the remaining top 20 markets amounting to approximately 2/3 of the global box office earnings.

7 minutes ago, deathzealot said:

That is your opinion, but while I am a Macross fan I also like Robotech. I really wish they managed to keep Shadow Chronicles going for I was actually interested in where they would take the story in that. I also wanted to see what they were going to do with Robotech Academy. Sigh. However, that said I do understand why everyone does not like Robotech.

Have you, perchance, read the leaked plot outline for the remainder of Shadow Chronicles?  I suspect you would not have enjoyed it.  It did not inspire confidence.

If you have not, but are interested, I can assist you in that regard.

5 minutes ago, Marzan said:

Can our wallets sustain the inevitable oncoming onslaught?

Depends how hard and fast they hit us.

I think we've got at least half a year to sock cash away for Macross goodies while Big West and Harmony Gold sort out distributors and the like.