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ComicKaze

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  1. *Whew*

    For a moment there I thought we had another "Anima Spiritia! It's all about Anima Spiritia!" thread...and I just couldn't bear the thought of it.

    Anyway, I don't think she was speaking so literally. The Vajra seem drawn to Ranka, but not because she's hateful.

    It just seems to me that the Vajra seem like the opposite of the Protodevlin. It seems they are attracted to and awakened by good song energy, ie: Anima Spiritia while the Protodevlin were repulsed by it. By taking Grace's comment, it just seemed to me like she wanted to foment hate as if it was, like some kind of song of destruction, etc.

  2. I don't know what happened to the title of this thread, it looked like it got cut off. It was supposed to say "Protodevlin feed on spiritia = Vajra (or the real evil behind it) feed on hate?" Can a mod fix that?

    The protodevlin seemed to feed off positive energies of spiritia (sorry the title said anima spiritia by accident) by draining them. Spiritia seems to be a positive energy (happiness, joy, exhuberance, vitality, willpower, hope, excitement, etc.). This was combatted by anima spiritia which was too pure and powerful for them to absorb.

    When Grace activates the dimension eater, she says that "The hate will never stop growing". This seems to me like the classic sci-fi theme (or maybe even cliche) of aliens who feed on fear or hate and therefore cause other species to fight each other to feed off that. Is that an accurate translation? I originally thought it was "My hate will never stop growing" and I thought it was a personal vendetta she had (like she was part of the research fleet with the Global and something terrible happened to her in the past - like the classic anime cliche)...but on rewatching it and noticing several things like that the Dimension Eater was made by Luca's family and that Grace actualy says that THE hate will never stop growing.

    Any thoughts?

  3. Alright, so i'm rewatching it and trying to make better sense of the subs. Correct me where I'm wrong:

    6) Brera shows up in the Vajra hive complex. Since his primary objective no longer involves kdinapping Ranka; he sets about accomplishing the grander plan which I guess we can deduce was for him to cause the Vajra armada to get on the move by pissing the Vajra queen off as he comes in with guns blazing after non-chalantly drifting down. Fortunately for him, an errant shot hits a crystal and everything gets all crazy. It seems like the crystal is something the Vajra queen is really sensitive about and when she's suffering she is able to make Ranka suffer. The how of this all could go lots of ways but then all the crystals start glowing and the Global fires its main cannon. You know what might make more sense? Maybe just the Vajra mothership built into the Global fired a main cannon up and through the Global to free itself so that it could launch.

    7) Grace sees the main cannon's burst and smiles saying "It has awoken" which, in context, is an odd word choice. It does make some sense if my conjecture above is right and that Grace just realized that the Vajra would need to blast the Global free if they wanted to take off so the "it" becomes the Vajra armada she would know to be taking off.

    Did I sum it all up right?

    No, that the pinkish energy was to me, pretty clearly exploding from the crystals or the mother/ranka's suffering (the same pinkish glow from her abdomen, the mother Vajra had energy coursing out of her breached crystals, etc. and was about to explode... and not a main cannon of any sort either tha Vajra ship or the Global's - see how the animation shows the whole Global is enveloped in the pinkish energy glow. It's energy that is going outwards from internally and not a cannon which would either come from the main gun of the Global or from under it which would have vaporized it. Instead the glow comes from the mother Vajra's lair and this causes the Global to crumble later on after the blast.

    And seriously, Luca's family really does make some scary stuff. They made the bloody dimension eater thing.

  4. She's also a toaster, but nobody will discover this hidden power until just before the final episode, when Alto has some English muffins...but nowhere to cook them!

    Oh Ranka will have something baking in her oven care of Alto, but it won't be english muffins!

  5. While I agree that 80s anime is great, what new shows are you watching? That's a pretty big blanket statement; and not a very accurate one at that. :blink: If anything, colors have gotten much more vibrant thanks to digital paint techniques (which started off looking horrid like Sol Bianca the Legacy, but has great improved to CAPS quality). Though some shows use muted palettes, as that's the directors choice. Watch something like Gankutsuou and try to tell me it looks "washed out". Character design is largely opinion. Animation quality varies from show to show, but the 80s was the height of Japan's "detail over fluidity" mentality. Anime is way more fluid now than any 80s TV show. Only movies and some OAVs match the average "Garbage" on TV today. ^_^ Even than, it's largely subjective and depends on budget, studio and director. A lot of anime is still quite static as is preference (versus american animation preference of fluidity at all costs).

    Heck, take Macross as an example. Ignoring chara designs as being of mostly opinion, Frontier is way more vibrant, fluid, and consistent than even A-team animated episodes of SDF Macross, even if it uses shortcuts like CGI (which ityself is a step above most). It's not until you get to DYRL that you have animation that can match it.

    I love the look of old, cel painted series too, and the 80s had some awesome chara and mecha designers, but to call new stuff ass just because said designers have changed is just ridiculous. The 80s had plenty of crap too. It's just rightfully buried. ;)

    Digital painting might get you brighter colors or better gradients and beautiful backgrounds but the inherent laziness in the cost-saving technique (click, paintbucket fill on mask) will never capture the texture and flow of colors, lightning, and shadow as was in 80s animation. It also seems that the dynamic action, energy effects, speed effects, character designs, and mechanical designs of the 80s are a lost art and we'll never capture those little touches that always seem to appear in 80s animation to surprise you at the intricacy of a certain something even if the overall animation isn't that great.

  6. Wow, this last episode just brings back more homages or perhaps sheer lift offs from Aliens like the infested guantanamo crusier. Everything from the government experienmenting on aliens for research to the egg layer, the holes melted into the ground...

    Somehow I wanted something a little more elegant for the Vajra than for them to look like another Aliens cloned storyline.

  7. Being that Alto was diverged to discover it by the alien eye exhibiting strange powers in the waters of Gallia IV, the simplest explanation is that the SDF-1 arrived there via alien means and therefore has nothing to do with earth or human fleets or fleet movements or humans installing new fold engines or relaunching the ship or building more SDF-1 class vessels or anything like that. Given that in Macross, protoculture technology has been shown to be able to do some very bizarre and implausibly powerful things, it's also the simplest explanation to assume that anything bizarre or out of this world (like the sudden appearance of the SDF-1) is again, caused by that alien power.

    I don't know why I'm debating this either but I'm just frustrated that the people who are saying it's another SDF-1 class ship are seemingly ignorning all the signs given in the very episode in which it appears.

  8. As Radd noted, that's not how Occam's Razor works.

    The simplest solution IS, in fact, that there's more than one ship of the class. It's not as fun, and you don't get to fanwank near as hard, but it's the simplest answer.

    No, not at all.

    That the simplest solution is that there are more ships of it's class is a subjective conclusion. I feel that simplest solution is that the Macross is the only one of it's class and the simplest and most logical solution is that this IS the Macross.

    How can the simplest solution be the one where there are more SDF-1 class ships when it's never been substantiated in any form? When what we see in front of us is quite clearly a very classically rendered DYRL Macross (Frontier and Macross properties have taken the DYRL stylistic route as canon, if not the narrative), when Alto exclaims that it is Macross, when the next episode preview says it's Memory of Global???

    It is actually the more complicated and therefore unlikeliest solution that there are more SDF-1 class ships. That any SDF-1 class ships built after Space War One bear the exact likeness of the original SDF-1 Macross. That they are all called Macross (thus Alto's confusion), and that this particular one is also related to Bruno J. Global. In Ockham's Razor, you don't ignore explicit evidence either.

    The only existing SDF is on Earth.

    There CAN'T be anything on Gallia-4 unless part of the above sentence is incorrect. Which part is up for debate.

    If it IS the Macross, they better have a DAMN good story to get it there.

    Which is why I'm HOPING it isn't the Macross.

    A random colony fleet accident won't be NEAR as bothersome to me as "Oh, yeah... we yanked the title mech out of a lake, threw it across the galaxy, smashed it up good, and then lost it on some hick planet no one's heard of. No real reason, it just seemed like a good idea at the time."

    There is nothing wrong with either statement. You have to construe everything in the context of Macross and how it's narratives and symbols have been presented. Every Macross series has had something very important and epic to say. Macross Plus showed the confluence and conflict between man versus machine. Macross Zero showed just how powerful the protoculture technology was and the origins of man and his violent nature. Macross 7 showed how powerful culture, songs, and spiritia are. This show has always gone to lengths to show you the most improbable and most magical and most epic solutions to the questions and situations that it poses. Therefore, logically, we can assume that Frontier will similiarily not disappoint and that whatever appears to be the SDF-1 will therefore be related to the original and is not something derivative or pedestrian as simply another SDF-1 class vessel. It makes no sense in the thrust and context of where we are in the story right now and how the Macross universe has been unfolded over all these years.

    In a series where ships can easily space-fold across the Galaxy, there is really nothing stopping the Macross from leaving from earth and appearing on Gallia IV. It seems that you are setting yourself up for disappointment and limiting your imagination. Why WOULDN'T you want it to be Macross? Why would you want a pedestrian and mundance explanation from a series that has proven it has no fears of being epic and almost magic in scale in it's explanations (Shin being saved in a wash of mystical light and taken into space in Zero). When has anything in Macross happened for no good reason??? Why would you expect that as the default situation when the series has shown that it's arc has been carefully plotted and paced far ahead of production? Whatever it turns out to be, I fully expect it to be the representation of the classic Macross and not something illogical and irrelevant to the plot and the entire Macross universe such as suddenly infusing it with more Macross class ships. It makes no sense in terms of the story as it's been unfolded in the franchise and carries no emotional weight. It's either the physical manifestation of the original Macross or it's an illusion created by that eye in the water (more nods to the Protoculture Birdman from Macross Zero).

    Given the evidence of past Macross series and past story arcs, it is the simplest answer to assume that Frontier will also follow in their footsteps and not present the mundane but something magic.

    Like Arthur C. Clarke said: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Magic".

  9. Ah, but there is where the reasonable doubt becomes most apparent. There is no canonical proof either way.

    Sigh, do you have any understanding of Ockham's Razor? In the absence of evidence or proof is it is more reliable and evident to accept that something does not exist rather than to presuppose an elaborate explanation to try to make something exist.

    Given the wealth and sheer mass of canonical materials in animation, designworks, publications, official releases, videogames, etc. etc. etc. over 25 years : If we haven't seen any canon evidence of further SDF-1 style Macross ships in them that aren't themselves THE Macross, it is logical to assume, that there simply are not any more SDF-1 style ships!

    Zinjo, going by your insane logic, you might as well go into the real world and study every zoological and taxonomical textbook ever written and still conclude and zealously believe that there are Unicorns in Utah. There's no proof either way!

  10. Watch the ending again, Ranka did see the ship, she flashed on it right after the crash, which is why she walked over to take a look.

    Actually, Ranka saw it flash across her personal screen for no reason whatsoever at an angle that makes little sense for the VF-25's cameras to capture. Whatever force caused them to crash by controlling the VF-25's systems also flashed that image there.

  11. It's the SDF-1. It's always had an air of mystery about it, such as when the original fold engines kept folding and left the Macross behind. Perhaps they reappeared or some external force folded the Macross between M+ and Frontier that we don't know about (also leading to the changes resulting in NUNs). I'm guessing that the fold transit left the Macross in the dilapated state, perhaps it defolded in orbit and burned through the atmosphere in decent only to crash on Gallia IV. In any case, it is Global's Ship as the preview states. Alto even calls it the Macross instead of an SDF class ship.

    We have never seen any indication of any SDF class ships outside of the Macross in any show or canon material, it is a one of a kind design. It would make absolutely no sense to build any more of them. It is both a powerful symbol to the people of earth and also a restoration of an alien ship that is unsuited to human usage without extensive modification.

    Finally, in terms of fan service - it simply has to be the Macross for maximum effect and to give this series the heavy nostalgic connection to Macross that it deserves. It is the 25th anniversary show afterall.

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