Macross Not Popular in Japan

[Kamion]

Funnily, I found out that my Japanese girl friend, loved Macross when it first came out in the '80s but she's almost forgotten about it now until she saw my Yamato VF-1D. She looked at it, thought for a while and asked... "is this from... Ma-ku... Ma-ku... " *scratch head*... and I completed the word for her "Ma-ku-ross? Yes!".

She told me that she watched DYRL in the cinema with her brother who's also a Macross fan. They got addicted because her elder cousin sister was into the TV series and introduced them to Macross as well. Her cousin sis is still a fan now it seems. Her brother probably forgotten about it by now but he used to have the poster in his room.

She promised me to do a search to see if she can come up with any old memorabilla for me when she gets home.

*EDIT* She also loves the song Ai:oboteimasuka and used to sing it a lot. haha.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Kamion

[Abombz!!]

Gah ppl! Lay off Gundam! While most recent shows suck beyond reason.... the older Gundam shows are of very good quality and are on the level of SDF Macross.

Why isn't Macross as popular as it used ot be? First: it had 1 TV series. It was a huge success, followed by a movie of similar success. And after? Nothing for a few year, and then we get Macross 2, which wasn't on the same level of SDF Macross.Its very common for a Japanese fan to forget about a show as soon as the show ends. Thats where Gundam is popular..... because it never stops being shown. One show ends, to be quickly replaced by another Gundam show. The reason why Gundam isn't good anymore? Because Bandai decided to get rid of the only reason why it was good in the first place.... Tomino. Get rid of Kawamori and you will get crap Macross series. Bandai should have gotten rid of Okawara and his bland mech designs, not Tomino.

Second: at $50 per DVD with no extras and 30 minutes of anime, theres nothing to wonder as to why video only OVAs aren't very popular, thats where Macross Zero fits. Its hard to find someone willing to shell out $50 for 30 minutes of anime. Not only that... but with close to 5 months between each episode, I find it hard to believe many fans would stay intersted long enough to watch the OVA till the end. Perhaps when all episodes are available, we will see Macross Zero true success.

Is Gundam over milked? Heck yeah! Seed with its lack of originality is proof of that. But in the same note.... Macross was left in the closet for too long.

[Aegis!]

Gosh I love this topic , every one has something interesting to say and and one has something to read.

From my perspective not only Macross is not very popular in Japan but every other anime series (TV and OVA) when compared to the colossal marketing campaign behind Gundam falls under the category of not very popular.

But I ask you this : Do we really want Macross to be a popular anime in Japan ?

If we think about the compromises that Kawamori would have to do to make Macross an appealing anime for every japanese kid that is a Gundam fan then I have to say NO F***ING WAY!!

Is it really sensible to turn Macross into a continous ordeal of repetition year after year after year after year ?At least M7 had the merit of having something to add to the continuity but if BW decided to make a TV series aimed at the general public in Japan then they would have to tone down the plot and seriousness of MAcross , and that would be down right bad.

I don´t want Macross to be as popular as Gundam , I don´t care if it isn´t very popular as long as we get good quality series from time to time , of course I would like to see more series more often but I seriously wouldn´t recomend BW to go the Gundam way of regurgitated material.

What we really need is for BW to wake up and concentrate more on publicity , specially on TV and trailers within other DVD releases. Secondly they seriously need to include subs on their M0 DVDs if they want to skip HG and their dirty intentions.

[Yoshi]

While the Gundam Way makes a lot of crap (ie the non-Tomino stuff) it keeps the franchise flying high and it keeps the fans happy with a lot of stuff.

Even if a lot of the materials and goodies suck, there is still a lot of high quality stuff you can pick if you choose carefully.

With Macross, I feel there is a lot of wasted potential. Oh, I agree with the fans who don't want Macross to be a "popular anime" with all the crap and the dumbing it carries but com'on. Like someone said, Big West should have concentrated on making more Macross after the initial big hit of TV and DYRL?. A lot of people will agree with me these 80s projects are the best Macross ever. And I kinda resent the Froating Gang for not making more Macross projects in the 80s, especially since I think their skills were at their best at this time. Who know, maybe we missed the Zeta Gundam of Macross ? I feel the Froating Gang was enough creative to come with interesting stuff at the time with reharshing too much.

The release schedule is Macross series is almost comical, I mean a handful of new projects every 10 years ? That's hard to keep a fandom entertained at such a rate, especially when each new project is so different from the others than it's hit-or-miss. *cough*Macross 7*cough*

Don't get me wrong I do respect Froatlord Kawamori's way of handling his work, but at some point I wouldn't have minded some Gundam-style pumping. At least enough to provide us with more than a loose package of a couple TV and OAV series.

I WANTED MORE 80s MACROSS (CRY)

PS: I've experienced the phenomon with my japanese friends (and even my teacher, lol). Gundam is f*cking omnipresent in their mind, but they have to try hard to remember Macross.

Japanese friend: Woah ! This is a Gundam ! Char Aznable ! Zaku ! RX-78 ! Ah Ah Ah ! Garma wa shinda, naze da ? Mieru ! Ah Ah Ah !

Yoshi: Yeah.

Japanese friend: And that one... That's Mack-Boss... hum no... Mack-Force... hum wait a minute... Mack-Cross or something like that... Help me !

Yoshi: (dead)

Edited September 3, 2003 by Yoshi

[Hoptimus]

Well. Gundam has a new series whether it needs it or not. I only really like MS Gundam 0079 Movies,Zeta,and CCA. At least Macross trys to do something different with each addition to the story.

[Abombz!!]

Gosh I love this topic , every one has something interesting to say and and one has something to read.

From my perspective not only Macross is not very popular in Japan but every other anime series (TV and OVA) when compared to the colossal marketing campaign behind Gundam falls under the category of not very popular.

But I ask you this : Do we really want Macross to be a popular anime in Japan ?

If we think about the compromises that Kawamori would have to do to make Macross an appealing anime for every japanese kid that is a Gundam fan then I have to say NO F***ING WAY!!

Is it really sensible to turn Macross into a continous ordeal of repetition year after year after year after year ?At least M7 had the merit of having something to add to the continuity but if BW decided to make a TV series aimed at the general public in Japan then they would have to tone down the plot and seriousness of MAcross , and that would be down right bad.

I don´t want Macross to be as popular as Gundam , I don´t care if it isn´t very popular as long as we get good quality series from time to time , of course I would like to see more series more often but I seriously wouldn´t recomend BW to go the Gundam way of regurgitated material.

What we really need is for BW to wake up and concentrate more on publicity , specially on TV and trailers within other DVD releases. Secondly they seriously need to include subs on their M0 DVDs if they want to skip HG and their dirty intentions.

For one... if you were to really give some though.... you aren't a very good Macross fan for not wanting it to be popular.

I understand where you are coming from, but BW is a one hit wonder, they made Macross and nothing else. To wish for a non popular Macross is to spell doom for BW. BW needs the money, there fore Macross need to be popular for the money to come in. When a show is not popular, theres no money. When theres no money, there are no new shows. And besides, if Macross was to lose its popularity, I doubt there would be any major studio who would want to back BW in a new Macross project.

If you want to wish for Macross not to be popular, first wish for it to be popular so BW can get tons of money to spend.

And your view of Gundam is wrong. Gundam isn't aimed for kids..... Alternate Universe Gundams are. Zeta Gundam had more remarkable deaths then the entired Macross franchise. Add that to the extremely depressing content, and I find it hard to believe its aimed for kids. Even Bandai themselves said "Gundam Seed pisses off the hard core Gundam fans (aka older fans)".

There are 2 Gundams going on, the UC Gundam, with more interesting characters and better plot, aimed for hardcore older fans. And the AU Gundam, aka pile of crap, with turds like Seed and Wing, with crappy shallow characters and uninteresting cliche ridden plots.

P.S. Kawamori and BW haven't put out a decent Macross since Macross Plus.

[treatment]

I understand where you are coming from, but BW is a one hit wonder, they made Macross and nothing else. To wish for a non popular Macross is to spell doom for BW. BW needs the money, there fore Macross need to be popular for the money to come in. When a show is not popular, theres no money. When theres no money, there are no new shows. And besides, if Macross was to lose its popularity, I doubt there would be any major studio who would want to back BW in a new Macross project.

Uhmm, you're a bit wrong there. Big West 's current portfolio: http://animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/c...pany.php?id=314

And your view of Gundam is wrong. Gundam isn't aimed for kids..... Alternate Universe Gundams are. Zeta Gundam had more remarkable deaths then the entired Macross franchise. Add that to the extremely depressing content, and I find it hard to believe its aimed for kids. Even Bandai themselves said "Gundam Seed pisses off the hard core Gundam fans (aka older fans)".

Yeah.

MSG bombed shitlessly in Japan when it was first shown there. If not for the mecha-otakus fancying the mecha-designs of Gundam, it would've gone to oblivion. I've always wondered why Tomino's got an unhealthy fascination on young boys and still clings on esp.

fwiw, G-Gundam pissed off alot of UC-fans like me when it was released. And Wing created a new bunch of AC-gundam fans that's now into Seed and are basically responsible for the continued fascinating and extreme popularity of Gundams.

The best Gundam right now is not even a show, but a model-kit: Sentinels.

Fwiw, Zeta and Seed ain't even officially out here, yet.

There are 2 Gundams going on, the UC Gundam, with more interesting characters and better plot, aimed for hardcore older fans. And the AU Gundam, aka pile of crap, with turds like Seed and Wing, with crappy shallow characters and uninteresting cliche ridden plots.

Err, do you really believe Amuro Rei was not the ultimate crappy shallow character?

P.S. Kawamori and BW haven't put out a decent Macross since Macross Plus.

Oh, puh-lease! Macross-Zero is all that and a bag of chips. You're just one of the few that just don't like it personally. Edited September 3, 2003 by treatment

[bandit29]

All Gundam has always been aimed for kids or to be exact, pre teen and teenage boys. Which to me, almost 30...., are kids.

That's not to say Macross was aimed for adults either btw.

[Abombz!!]

Uhmm, you're a bit wrong there. Big West 's current portfolio: http://animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/c...pany.php?id=314

Ah yes! I love when ppl provide the link but don't even bother to read whats in it. Tell exactly which one of those shows matched the success of Macross.

You can't? Then let me help you! Getta Robo Go.... the only Getta Robo show to be renegaded by the GR fandom. Apocalypse Zero, super fighter type anime with extremely hentai like art and puke inducing character design. As for the other 2.... Cpt Taylor is very good and the other I don't know. Do you still wonder why Macross is the only series BW really milked?

MSG bombed shitlessly in Japan when it was first shown there. If not for the mecha-otakus fancying the mecha-designs of Gundam, it would've gone to oblivion. I've always wondered why Tomino's got an unhealthy fascination on young boys and still clings on esp.

fwiw, G-Gundam pissed off alot of UC-fans like me when it was released. And Wing created a new bunch of AC-gundam fans that's now into Seed and are basically responsible for the continued fascinating and extreme popularity of Gundams.

The best Gundam right now is not even a show, but a model-kit: Sentinels.

Fwiw, Zeta and Seed ain't even officially out here,

As yes! But you also forget that if it wasn't for Tomino, Macross wouldn't have existed. As Kawamori is one of the biggest fans of Gundam around, and he took inspiration on MSG to create Macross.

lol... Sentinel isn't a model kit, its a novel.

Yeah... Wing created a buch of new AC-gundam fans... casual fans. Do they keep the franchise alive? Hardly. There are tons of Gundam products around even before Seed was released. Enough to keep the interest on the franchise alive untill a new show was released.

Err, do you really believe Amuro Rei was not the ultimate crappy shallow character?

Is he? Sure.... but not nearly as shallow as Seed characters and Americas oh so beloved Wing boys, and some of Macross 7 characters.

Oh, puh-lease! Macross-Zero is all that and a bag of chips. You're just one of the few that just don't like it personally.

Macross Zero is crap. The characters are shallower then Amuro Ray and the Wing boys combined. Add that to a terrible character design (note I dispise Mikimoto so don't even go there), ugly mecha and very nice CGI effects.... and you get the subpar Macross Zero.

But as I'm a fan like everyone else.... my opinion about it is just as valid as everyone elses. Unless saying something negative about Macross pisses ppl off.... as to that I could give a rats @$$.

Fwiw, Zeta and Seed ain't even officially out here, yet.

And that has to do with what? America is not the center of the universe... and if you fail to realize.... this is a conversation about the popularity of Macross in Japan not America... so Seed and Zeta being out in America is redundant

Edited September 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

All Gundam has always been aimed for kids or to be exact, pre teen and teenage boys. Which to me, almost 30...., are kids.

That's not to say Macross was aimed for adults either btw.

Yeah.... but back in 79 you were what? Around 10 or something? Then in 84 you were..... 14 maybe more? Then the UC Gundams were targeted for you, the same as AU Gundams are targeted for the new crap-swallowing generation that we have today.

[JsARCLIGHT]

Is it really sensible to turn Macross into a continous ordeal of repetition year after year after year after year ?At least M7 had the merit of having something to add to the continuity but if BW decided to make a TV series aimed at the general public in Japan then they would have to tone down the plot and seriousness of MAcross , and that would be down right bad.

Someone here hasn't seen Macross 7 yet...

And if Macross 7 is any indication of what "popularizing" Macross will produce then I have a feeling my old friend the clock tower will be getting a lot of visitswith my other old friend, PSG-1.

[treatment]

Ah yes! I love when ppl provide the link but don't even bother to read whats in it. Tell exactly which one of those shows matched the success of Macross.

Have you even seen the near hentai Apocalypse Zero? <_<

No, I have not seen Apocalypse Zero, but I've seen Tylor and it's one of the classics. I think Tylor was as popular as Macross-TV. Afaik, it has a better character-development and better/correct military-terminologies.

I guess you just haven't seen Tylor, no?

As yes! But you also forget that if it wasn't for Tomino, Macross wouldn't have existed. As Kawamori is one of the biggest fans of Gundam around, and he took inspiration on MSG to create Macross.

Errr, I believe Kawamori was inspired by the mecha in Gundam, and not by Tomino's weird story about spacenoid-newtypes.

lol... Sentinel isn't a model kit, its a novel.

*shrug* All I see now is the godly Sentinels Gundam models. I don't see any Sentinel-novels over here right now. Why the heck would I want to read a mecha-novel, anyway? The reason why I got into Gundams is, well, I wanna see the Gundams. Models and animated.

Yeah... Wing created a buch of new AC-gundam fans... casual fans. Do they keep the franchise alive?

Yup. I'm not even sure you can classify the wingers as just "casual fans".

Hardly. There are tons of Gundam products around even before Seed was released. Enough to keep the interest on the franchise alive untill a new show was released.

So why is Seed so popular right now? The story is a known hack. Could it be that the Gundams in Seed are just damn good-looking in animation?

Is he? Sure.... but nearly as shallow as Seed characters and Americas oh so beloved Wing boys.

Yup. Amuro was overly shallow and quite a whiner, too.

Macross Zero is crap. The characters are shallower then Amuro Ray and the Wing boys combined. Add that to a terrible character design (note I dispise Mikimoto so don't even go there), ugly mecha and very nice CGI effects.... and you get the subpar Macross Zero.

Huh?! Whatever, Abombs.

It's really just your shallow personal opinion of the characters and mechas in Zero and you're really just in the minority regarding Zero.

---

Oh, yeah. For anyone thinking I'm an AC-nutcase, I'm not. I'm a UC-fan just like any other old-timers my age.

[Abombz!!]

No, I have not seen Apocalypse Zero, but I've seen Tylor and it's one of the classics. I think Tylor was as popular as Macross-TV. Afaik, it has a better character-development and better/correct military-terminologies.

I guess you just haven't seen Tylor, no?

Whats your point? I don't see sequels to it do I? Is it great? Probably.... then why isn't it out there right now? Why isn't BW milking it? Simply because Macross is there main and only Horse.

Errr, I believe Kawamori was inspired by the mecha in Gundam, and not by Tomino's weird story about spacenoid-newtypes.

Kawamori was inspired by Gundam in general... not just the Mechs, specially since he is able to do them much better.

*shrug* All I see now is the godly Sentinels Gundam models. I don't see any Sentinel-novels over here right now. Why the heck would I want to read a mecha-novel, anyway? The reason why I got into Gundams is, well, I wanna see the Gundams. Models and animated.

You likes or dislikes don't change the fact that the best Gundam is a novel, and a model book. If you are going to use something to prove a point... at least do it correctly. Without the novel, there would be no models. And there is no model kit called Sentinel BTW.

So why is Seed so popular right now? The story is a known hack. Could it be that the Gundams in Seed are just damn good-looking in animation?

Yeah... and whats your point? That doesn't change the fact that model kits have been carrying the franchise since Wing, as X and Turn A failed to be popular.

Huh?! Whatever, Abombs.

It's really just your shallow personal opinion of the characters and mechas in Zero and you're really just in the minority regarding Zero.

First.... before you start posting a reply be sure to read my name correctly.... the z is not just an accessory.

And why is it shallow? Because I dislike the character design? Because I dislike the story as a whole? Or is it becuase the characters don't appeal to me? So if I give a reason for not liking something.... its makes my opinion shallow? LOL

As for being a minority.... the Macross fandom is a minority... so I feel quite at home being one too.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Abombz!!]

Fwiw, Zeta and Seed ain't even officially out here, yet.

And that has to do with what? You fail to realize.... this is a conversation about the popularity of Macross in Japan not America... so Seed and Zeta being out in America is redundant.

Oh, yeah. For anyone thinking I'm an AC-nutcase, I'm not. I'm a UC-fan just like any other old-timers my age.

I doubt anyone would think that of you.... because you were able to point out Amuros flaws so well.

Note: not a sarcastic statement.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[treatment]

Whats your point? I don't see sequels to it do I? Is it great? Probably.... then why isn't it out there right now? Why isn't BW milking it? Simply because Macross is there main and only Horse.

Tylor side-stories was the sequel to Irresponsilbe Tylor.

The point was that i guess you haven't seen nor know enough of Tylor to make a statement like:

I love when ppl provide the link but don't even bother to read whats in it. Tell exactly which one of those shows matched the success of Macross.

Just makes you foolish for doing so, no?

Errr, I believe Kawamori was inspired by the mecha in Gundam, and not by Tomino's weird story about spacenoid-newtypes.

Kawamori was inspired by Gundam in general... not just the Mechs, specially since he is able to do them much better.

You're moving the goal-post here, Abombz. You said if it wasn't for Tomino, there would be no Macross. There's nothing Tomino in Macross besides mecha-inspiration. I mean, I haven't seen any spacenoid-newtypes and angst-ridden 15-year-old super-pilots in Macross.

*shrug* All I see now is the godly Sentinels Gundam models. I don't see any Sentinel-novels over here right now. Why the heck would I want to read a mecha-novel, anyway? The reason why I got into Gundams is, well, I wanna see the Gundams. Models and animated.

You likes or dislikes don't change the fact that the best Gundam is a novel, and a model book. If you are going to use something to prove a point... at least do it correctly. Without the novel, there would be no models. And there is no model kit called Sentinel BTW.

Actually, the best Gundam was Zeta, CCA and, imho, 8th MS-Team. All animated Gundams. Not novels.

Oh, yeah, btw. I don't think these are just a plain model-books:

http://dougram.battletechnology.org/Gundam...delsAndToys.htm

Maybe it's not availalbe in your area, yet. I've seen quite a few at the last Comic-Con and some local anime/models shops here in Southern California at the very least.

So why is Seed so popular right now? The story is a known hack. Could it be that the Gundams in Seed are just damn good-looking in animation?

Yeah... and whats your point? That doesn't change the fact that model kits have been carrying the franchise since Wing, as X and Turn A failed to be popular.

One of the most popular model-kits before were the Wing-models HG and PG. How quickly you forget?

Huh?! Whatever, Abombs.

It's really just your shallow personal opinion of the characters and mechas in Zero and you're really just in the minority regarding Zero.

First.... before you start posting a reply be sure to read my name correctly.... the z is not just an accessory.

Ok. Here's your "z" before I forget again.

And why is it shallow? Because I dislike the character design?

Yup. The character designs on Zero is quite ok for this generation. Unless of course, you have a thing against animated females with prominent boobies.

Because I dislike the story as a whole?

There's only been two episodes released from Zero so you can't make any claims that the story is already messed up. Maybe you should reserve your judgement until all the episodes were shown, no?

Or is it becuase the characters don't appeal to me? So if I give a reason for not liking something.... its makes my opinion shallow? LOL

Actually, yeah. You've been quite loud about your dislike about Zero from the old boards. I thought it was just your passing fancy, but I guess you're so stuck with it right now.

As for being a minority.... the Macross fandom is a minority... so I feel quite at home being one too.

So I guess you're a minority within a minority, then?

[Abombz!!]

My apologies to Abombz. I tried to quote this post and hit Edit instead. Damn moderator powers.

Edited September 3, 2003 by SuperOstrich

[Nightbat]

P.S. I'm having a blast with this argument!

Nice to know somebody is having fun <_<

Maybe nice to take the debate over to PM

It's hardly on topic

(it surely doesn't belong in the Toys-thread anymore)

[Abombz!!]

P.S. I'm having a blast with this argument!

Nice to know somebody is having fun

Maybe nice to take the debate over to PM

It's hardly on topic

(it surely doesn't belong in the Toys-thread anymore)

Come on!!

Why do you guys always have to be like that? When I'm finally making posts worth reading (or so I think)someone has to come over and burst my bubble!! Not fair!!

It didn't belong here in the first place BTW. <_<

[Radd]

Yep... but the minority I'm part of is not as small as you might think.... and the japanese Macross Zero sales back that up.

Was anyone able to get the sales of Yukikaze and other current OVA productions to compare with those of Macross Zero?

[Abombz!!]

Yep... but the minority I'm part of is not as small as you might think.... and the japanese Macross Zero sales back that up.

Was anyone able to get the sales of Yukikaze and other current OVA productions to compare with those of Macross Zero?

Nope. I have had a hard time getting solid numbers. But so far, I have found Macross Zero to stay in the charts for 2 to 3 weeks before dropping out of sight.

[treatment]

No, you are the foolish one. I'm talking about BW, and series produced by BW. Taylor might have been produced by BW, but whatever series that came before or after it wasn't produced by BW.

Errr, you claimed BW never had a popular series other than Macross, but you were unaware of the popularity of Tylor. I guess I'm the foolish one, no?

Yeah.... because Tomino created Gundam. The mech in Gundam were created by Tomino and cleaned up by Okawara.

And Hikaru is very angst ridden by the way, on the level of Amuro

omg, lol!

I tell you what, at least Hikaru chases and wants to sleep with Minmay. I don't think Hikaru's as hopelessly platonic as Amuro.

I can see tons of research went into this particular part of your post. If you don't know... the Mobile Suit Gundam Sentinel: Confessions of Alice has been around for about a decade before Bandai started milking it. Without the book... there would be no models. Your point on Sentinel is again redundant.

So I guess those models were just a figment of my imagination, right?

The market is saturated with a bunch of AC and UC gundam-models the last 10 years or so, so it's only logical for Bandai to release the Sentinel kits at this day and age with better manufacturing stuff than back in, say, 1984. They really look awesome on the display-shelves of the anime and model stores where they display Sentinels here in the States. And they're distinctly different enough from the old-guard and aging RX-78s/RX-79 lines and the Wing line.

Heck! I haven't even seen any Sentinel novel here in the States, yet, but I've seen Sentinel toys quite up close and they are selling quite well. I'm quite glad, actually, that I'm not aware of the Sentinel-novels because I'm not a novel-fan, anyway. I can't read japanese and I don't want to read novels. I rather watch anime and/or build Gundam models/toys without regards to any novels. I guess I just like the aesthetics of the models and toys to look at than just reading a novel.

More to the point, tho, is that a bunch of regular people around here in the States don't know anything about the Sentinels-novel like me, but are aware and are buyers of the Sentinels-model kits. That just adds up to the popularity of the Gundam-franchise much to a Macross-fan dismay that the Macross-franchise ain't as popular in comparison.

You didn't read my post. I clearly said Since Wing. I never dismissed the popularity of the Wing model kits, read my post again. If you note... I generalized on model kits.

Well, who in their right mind would want to buy ugly kits like X and Turn-A, anyway to begin with? I mean, the Sentinels-models are more popular than the Seed-models and both are quite attractive kits, but the Sentinels-models are just hands-down no-contest better-looking than any Gundam-line. I don't think those 14-year-old kids I see getting their parents to buy them EX-S kit have read the Sentinels-novel or know more about Gundam than Wing.

I never said the story is messed up.... I said I disliked it, 2 different words, 2 different meanings.

Ahh, but you 're quite so vocal about your dislike of Zero. I can only gather that maybe you dislike the Zero-story because it was that messed up in your opinion. I mean, I dislike both MSG and Wing stories, but I am not so vocal about it like your dislike of Zero.

Yep... but the minority I'm part of is not as small as you might think.... and the japanese Macross Zero sales back that up.

Oh, well.

Maybe when Yamato finally release the Zero-line, it might just help propel the sales of Zero to higher levels. I mean, if the HG-embargo gets lifted, then maybe there will be a resurgence of Macross popularity both in here and in Japan itself. The Gundam-franchise doesn't have the problem of the Macross-franchise. In fact, it can be inferred (more people have stated so) that Bandai was the one that stifled the Macross-franchise for not releasing enough models, Takatoku and Banpresto lines when they had the exclusive merchandize-license. I guess most of us knows that only when Hasegawa made a successful run on classic Macross fighter-models did Bandai took notice and tried to milk their Macross-lines with the re-issues and 15th anniversary lines. Then Yamato basically destroyed Bandai's chunky-monkey lines with the 1/60's. I guess Yamato just needs more advertisement-space and more room to sell their lines in areas like the US just like what Bandai is doing with it's Gundam-franchise. Still, the key to this is the lifting of the HG-embargo.

But that's a whole different can of worms to try to open, i should say.

--treatment--

[Abombz!!]

Errr, you claimed BW never had a popular series other than Macross, but you were unaware of the popularity of Tylor. I guess I'm the foolish one, no?

You are still the foolish one for going there again. If Taylor is soooo popular why hasn't BW pursued it? BW was the animation team not the creators.... or are you going to tell me BW also created Getta Robo? My first post was about BW created series, that accounts for Macross and Apocalypse Zero. You are the foolish one for not understanding that, no?.

omg, lol!

I tell you what, at least Hikaru chases and wants to sleep with Minmay. I don't think Hikaru's as hopelessly platonic as Amuro

.

If you were to do even the slightest research... which you haven't done apparently... you would find out that as Tomino writes the story, he also makes sketches of what the MSs should look like. He did that in MSG and V Gundam and a few others (except for Turn A Gundam I thinkg). Or do you think he just tells the designer what he wants and they magically come up with the right deisgn? <_<

So I guess those models were just a figment of my imagination, right?

The market is saturated with a bunch of AC and UC gundam-models the last 10 years or so, so it's only logical for Bandai to release the Sentinel kits at this day and age with better manufacturing stuff than back in, say, 1984. They really look awesome on the display-shelves of the anime and model stores where they display Sentinels here in the States. And they're distinctly different enough from the old-guard and aging RX-78s/RX-79 lines and the Wing line.

Heck! I haven't even seen any Sentinel novel here in the States, yet, but I've seen Sentinel toys quite up close and they are selling quite well. I'm quite glad, actually, that I'm not aware of the Sentinel-novels because I'm not a novel-fan, anyway. I can't read japanese and I don't want to read novels. I rather watch anime and/or build Gundam models/toys without regards to any novels. I guess I just like the aesthetics of the models and toys to look at than just reading a novel.

More to the point, tho, is that a bunch of regular people around here in the States don't know anything about the Sentinels-novel like me, but are aware and are buyers of the Sentinels-model kits. That just adds up to the popularity of the Gundam-franchise much to a Macross-fan dismay that the Macross-franchise ain't as popular in comparison.

Heck... I own a GFF Deep Strike, and both GFF S Gundams

The Sentinel models were not officially released in the US, they are imported. The Sentinel novel is huge! it would take alot of money to translate it all, plus it for hardcore model fans.

As for Macross no being huge on the US.... blame BW and their entanglement with HG and TP in the early 80s.

Well, who in their right mind would want to buy ugly kits like X and Turn-A, anyway to begin with? I mean, the Sentinels-models are more popular than the Seed-models and both are quite attractive kits, but the Sentinels-models are just hands-down no-contest better-looking than any Gundam-line. I don't think those 14-year-old kids I see getting their parents to buy them EX-S kit have read the Sentinels-novel or know more about Gundam than Wing.

Then you agree to my point that models held up the popularity of Gundam after Wing? Good one thing out of the way.

Ahh, but you 're quite so vocal about your dislike of Zero. I can only gather that maybe you dislike the Zero-story because it was that messed up in your opinion. I mean, I dislike both MSG and Wing stories, but I am not so vocal about it like your dislike of Zero

This is a Macross forum and complaining about something in Macross is on topic here. if you were to go to a Gundam fansite and compain about MSG and Wing, no one would complain about it. Now, if you chose not to voice your opinion on a subject.... thats entirely your choice. I made my choice in voicing my distaste for Macross Zero.

Is the story messed up? Maybe. Am I messed up for not liking it? Also entirely possible, I have been known for liking bad things and disliking good things.

Maybe when Yamato finally release the Zero-line, it might just help propel the sales of Zero to higher levels. I mean, if the HG-embargo gets lifted, then maybe there will be a resurgence of Macross popularity both in here and in Japan itself. The Gundam-franchise doesn't have the problem of the Macross-franchise. In fact, it can be inferred (more people have stated so) that Bandai was the one that stifled the Macross-franchise for not releasing enough models, Takatoku and Banpresto lines when they had the exclusive merchandize-license. I guess most of us knows that only when Hasegawa made a successful run on classic Macross fighter-models did Bandai took notice and tried to milk their Macross-lines with the re-issues and 15th anniversary lines. Then Yamato basically destroyed Bandai's chunky-monkey lines with the 1/60's. I guess Yamato just needs more advertisement-space and more room to sell their lines in areas like the US just like what Bandai is doing with it's Gundam-franchise. Still, the key to this is the lifting of the HG-embargo.

In my opinion... Macross Zero will attract attention once all DVDs are released. Like you said only 2 episodes have been out..... I bet many anime fans don't have the patience to wait 4 to 5 months between each release. Untill then.... my minority will not be as small as some think.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Aegis!]

WOwowowow

This thread has been officially been taken over by the Gundam fans

Abombz!! :

first of all : If you dislike so many things about Macross , why the heck do you still watch it ?

Macross Zero hasn´t even reached half of the episodes scheduled for release and you´re talking about poor character development ? you surely ´need to watch more anime mate.

To be totally honest with you I don´t praise Macross Zero as some people do but I still recognise it has many good things and I ain´t watching it because of the damn CGI or the lovely mechas , I´m watching it because it offers a new perspective to the events before SW1 , the social conflicts involved in the dispute for overtechnology and the discovery of the secrets of the protoculture on Earth. And mate , if you´re seriously saying Macross Zero is crap then you need to see a doctor , I know when a Macross series is crappy , I knew it with MII , I knew with M7 (I still like it though) but Macross Zero is up there with DYRL the TV series and Macross Plus without doubt.

I have nothing against Gundam , I just don´t care about it , just like Gundam fans don´t care about Macross very much (unless you happen to like both).

You may think that by making Macross utterly popular in Japan BW will get more money and thus we will have more series but that´s where you´re wrong: We ain´t gonna have new good series ,mainly because those new series won´t be aimed towards us the older fans , it gonna be the general public that will have new series (just like Gundam with Seed and Wing ).

If they wanted to make it popular (i.e. appeal to as many people as possible) they would have to change the style of Macross in order to make it more appealing to non-fans (like M7 to J-pop fans) , and that means making many TV series along the years which implies there´s gonna be less quaility in those shows (less production time per episode , less budget , etc..) and less significant content for hardcore fans.

That´s what I would dislike , don´t get me wrong, I´m not against the possibility of new fans wanting to see Macross for what it is which would only happen if BW concentrates more on publicityto show people the attracking things about Macross . Yamato on their hand would need a miracle to make it to the West but we know what that means.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Aegis!

[Isamu Atreides 86]

P.S. I'm having a blast with this argument!

Nice to know somebody is having fun

Maybe nice to take the debate over to PM

It's hardly on topic

(it surely doesn't belong in the Toys-thread anymore)

hey, this is one of the best arguments since the new boards came up! while i have nothing to add other that Macross rules and 08th MS rocks, i am enjoying it!

[Batou]

Gosh I love this topic , every one has something interesting to say and and one has something to read.

From my perspective not only Macross is not very popular in Japan but every other anime series (TV and OVA) when compared to the colossal marketing campaign behind Gundam falls under the category of not very popular.

But I ask you this : Do we really want Macross to be a popular anime in Japan ?

If we think about the compromises that Kawamori would have to do to make Macross an appealing anime for every japanese kid that is a Gundam fan then I have to say NO F***ING WAY!!

Is it really sensible to turn Macross into a continous ordeal of repetition year after year after year after year ?At least M7 had the merit of having something to add to the continuity but if BW decided to make a TV series aimed at the general public in Japan then they would have to tone down the plot and seriousness of MAcross , and that would be down right bad.

I don´t want Macross to be as popular as Gundam , I don´t care if it isn´t very popular as long as we get good quality series from time to time , of course I would like to see more series more often but I seriously wouldn´t recomend BW to go the Gundam way of regurgitated material.

What we really need is for BW to wake up and concentrate more on publicity , specially on TV and trailers within other DVD releases. Secondly they seriously need to include subs on their M0 DVDs if they want to skip HG and their dirty intentions.

Hear hear. I could care less how popular it is, and I think the Hoary Froating Head is of the same mind on this one. It's his baby, and why on earth should he have to compromise his vision and integrity for the sake of mass-market appeal? Sure there's the money from merchandising, but I think Kawamori considers himself an artist, and I would say that Macross is his life's work (whether he'll admit to it or not is another story). I think Kawamori-sama is living comfortably enough, and has his priorities straight. No need to sell this one out just yet. I'd much rather Kawamori stick to his guns and do it his way, mass-market appeal be damned. When Macross (Insert Version Here) comes out, I'll tune in to see what's new regardless of when it's released. I might be the only geezer in the nursing home making "swoosh" noises while I fly my (now vintage) Yamato 1/48 around the room, but I'll be a blissfully happy old bastard.

Look at the great music groups of the last few decades - I won't name names since tastes will obviously vary, but think about this: How often do the truly great bands release albums? Do they do it like the bubble-gum pop cookie cutter flash-in-the-pans that Mtv force feeds to the masses with a new album out every 9 months or so until they're burned out and used up and discarded like a used tissue? (breath) Or, do the great ones sometime take YEARS between releases, only putting them out when they have something to say and when they're ready to release it (as opposed to fitting the schedule of some seedy music exec looking to fund a new wing on their Beverly Hills palace)? Macross is like one of the great bands - it might not pull in as many new fans en masse, but the fans it has are devoted, rabid, and unquestionably loyal to a fault.

I say leave Macross to Kawamori's best judgement. Macross 7 aside (and even that's debatable), he hasn't steered us wrong yet, and I don't expect him to. Let the attention-starved children have their new Gundam series and associated merchandise every year. Leave Macross fresh and for the adults who've been around long enough to appreciate it. If I have to wait 5 years for a decent Macross series, so be it. Better that than the alternative ...

P.S. - No disrespect to Gundam fans intended. Hey - I like a few of the series myself. I just don't particularly like the way they keep rehashing essentially the same series over and over with not much new to show for it. It's very obviously become about making money, and not telling a story, which - let's face it - is what brought down even the mighty Star Wars from its pedestal.

[Abombz!!]

WOwowowow

This thread has been officially been taken over by the Gundam fans

Abombz!! :

first of all : If you dislike so many things about Macross , why the heck do you still watch it ?

Macross Zero hasn´t even reached half of the episodes scheduled for release and you´re talking about poor character development ? you surely ´need to watch more anime mate.

To be totally honest with you I think Macross Zero has many good things but I ain´t watching it because of the damn CGI or the lovely mechas , I´m watching it because it offers a new perspective to the events before SW1 , the social conflicts involved in the dispute for overtechnology and the discovery of the secrets of the protoculture on Earth. And mate , if you´re seriously saying Macross Zero is crap then you need to see a doctor , I know when a Macross series is crapy , I knew it with MII , I knew with M7 (I still like it though) but Macross Zero is up there with DYRL the TV series and Macross Plus without doubt.

I have nothing against Gundam , I just don´t care about it , just like Gundam fans don´t care about Macross very much (unless you happen to like both).

You may think that by making Macross utterly popular in Japan BW will get more money and thus we will have more series but that´s where you´re wrong: We ain´t gonna have new good series , the general public will have new series (just like Gundam with Seed and Wing ).

If they wanted to make it popular (i.e. appeal to as many people as possible) they would have to change the style of Macross in order to make it more appealing to non-fans , and that means making many TV series along the years which implies there´s gonna be less quaility in those shows and less significant content for hardcore fans.

That´s what I would dislike , I´m not against the possibility of new fans wanting to see Macross for what it is , and that´s why BW needs to seriously focus on marketing. Yamato on their hands would need a miracle to make it to the West but we know what that means.

LOL.... I never said I disliked Macross so much. I said I Hikaru was an angst ridden teen, and that I disliked Macross Zero. Now... if to you, Macross is just macross Zero then I guess do hate Macross. SDF macross and DYRl are still my top ranking animes to date. Do I have a few complaints about them? Yeah.... but I dislike a few things about every show I like too. Its not enough for me to stop watching macross as a whole. As long as SDF and DYRL are still part of Macross, I will watch them, and I will come here to comment on what I like and dislike about them. I like Macross... have liked it since I was 7. I like Gundam, have liked it since I was 7 too. Both hold the highest place as far as anime goes for me.

I don't need to see a doctor because I dislike Zero..... I simply have no interest on knowing what the heck was going on, on earth before SWI.... it going to be destroyed anyways, so whats the use? What got me into Macross was humanities struggle to survive, and how a song unified humanity and aliens against a common threat, and how that song awoke the aliens to culture. I didn't get into Macross to watch a struggle between humans... because honestly... I can see that just fine now a days. I hate prequels, specially in the case of macross because I know the story that goes on before SDF Macross isn't going to interest me enough. Thats why I say its crap, if something doesn't interest me, I'm going to dislike it. You can't imagine how much effort I put into watching the first Macross Zero last Xmas... you can ask anyone I know.... I was seriously bummed at how it turned out. I didn't want it to be like SDF or DYRL or Macross, I wanted it to be a genuinaly good show, with an interesting story. While Macross Zero has its merits.... it has none of the merits that would require me to like a show.

As far as being popular goes.... theres a flaw in your statement. Japanese fans aren't like American fans. Gundam Wing was a success, you didn't see fans begging for more Wing, they just moved on after the show was over, unlike Americans fans who still seem to wish for Wing 2 every night. Making Macross popular in Japan doesn't necessarely means BW will have to completly change Macross to accomplish that. Japanese fans have far better taste then American fans. And I seriously doubt BW would have to turn macross into a Pokemon of sort to attract their attention.

[treatment]

You are still the foolish one for going there again. If Taylor is soooo popular why hasn't BW pursued it? BW was the animation team not the creators.... or are you going to tell me BW also created Getta Robo? My first post was about BW created series, that accounts for Macross and Apocalypse Zero. You are the foolish one for not understanding that, no?.

Uhmm, how do you mean BW hasn't pursued Tylor?

If you were to do even the slightest research... which you haven't done apparently... you would find out that as Tomino writes the story, he also makes sketches of what the MSs should look like. He did that in MSG and V Gundam and a few others (except for Turn A Gundam I thinkg). Or do you think he just tells the designer what he wants and they magically come up with the right deisgn?

What has that got to do with the price of tea in China again?

Are you really saying the Macross stories (TV, DYRL, PLUS, ZERO, and M7) are all Tomino's ideas?

Are you actually saying that Kawamori's designs in Macross were not originals at all and that the VF-1S/VF-1A, VF-0, YF-19, YF-21, etc, etc, are all copycats of Tomino's original sketches?

I think your Tomino worship is just getting the better of you, Abombz.

The Sentinel models were not officially released in the US, they are imported. The Sentinel novel is huge! it would take alot of money to translate it all, plus it for hardcore model fans.

I could care less about how huge the novel is.

Last time I check, it's only within the last two years that 1/100 HG and MG Sentinel models have appeared on US soil and still is limited. And the novel was made like when again?

As for Macross no being huge on the US.... blame BW and their entanglement with HG and TP in the early 80s.

Afaik, Bandai had the Taka-license and they sat on it for a long time. And HG didnt start actively blocking Macross toys until the Toycom/Yamato-incident three years ago or so. We all know that, right?

Then you agree to my point that models held up the popularity of Gundam after Wing? Good one thing out of the way.

Nope. I believe the UC MS-8th anime was quite popular after Wing and the rx-79g was the hottest kit after Wing. Fwiw, Afterwar-X was popular in the early goings in anime, too, before it's ratings went down. Just that their X's HG model-lines sucked. Also note that Bandai shut down AnimeVillage here in the US and directly marketed Gundam DVDs and merchandises (Wing, Stardust, 0080, 8th MS team) here in the US to maintain and sustain their Gundam franchise.

This is a Macross forum and complaining about something in Macross is on topic here. if you were to go to a Gundam fansite and compain about MSG and Wing, no one would complain about it. Now, if you chose not to voice your opinion on a subject.... thats entirely your choice. I made my choice in voicing my distaste for Macross Zero.

Well, let me put it this way to you, then:

I dislike Macross-7, yet I'm not anywhere as vocal about my dislike of it as much as you are vocal about your dislike of Macross-Zero.

Is the story messed up? Maybe. Am I messed up for not liking it? Also entirely possible, I have been known for liking bad things and disliking good things.

As do I. I like all of EVA (except the dubs), but I know alot of people don't share that same EVA-liking that I do.

In my opinion... Macross Zero will attract attention once all DVDs are released. Like you said only 2 episodes have been out..... I bet many anime fans don't have the patience to wait 4 to 5 months between each release. Untill then.... my minority will not be as small as some think.

I beg to differ.

It shouldn't take all of the dvd's to be released for Macross-Zero to get it's attention. I rather have Studio Nue take their time refining the anime than rush Zero.

I rather say that Macross-Zero needs to have it's mechas (toys/models) to be out on sale and on display and heavily advertised right now by Yamato or whoever has the toy-license for Zero's popularity in Japan to go up higher. I'm not sure if even Hasegawa has put out any other Zero models other than the Tomcat and the Mig-29 to seed demand for Zero.

--treatment--

[Abombz!!]

Uhmm, how do you mean BW hasn't pursued Tylor?

Look at the link you sent me. Was Taylor a BW creation? No? Then Taylor can't be used in this argument. From the beginning, I was talking about BW created franchises, in this case Macross. They created Macross, thats their one hit wonder... thats what they have been milking since.

Are you really saying the Macross stories (TV, DYRL, PLUS, ZERO, and M7) are all Tomino's ideas?

Are you actually saying that Kawamori's designs in Macross were not originals at all and that the VF-1S/VF-1A, VF-0, YF-19, YF-21, etc, etc, are all copycats of Tomino's original sketches?

I think your Tomino worship is just getting the better of you, Abombz.

I don't worship anyone. I didn't say Tomino was the guy behind SDF Macross, and you are making yourself look dumb for saying that. All I said Tomino was the guy who designed the MSs in Gundam... which you pointed out was inspiration for Kawamori. Inspiration only.... I didn't say anything beyond that.

I could care less about how huge the novel is.

Last time I check, it's only within the last two years that 1/100 HG and MG Sentinel models have appeared on US soil and still is limited. And the novel was made like when again?

Close to 20 years ago. First issue on 1987.

If you could care less... then you are being ignorant about a fact and shouldn't be talking about this to begin with.

Afaik, Bandai had the Taka-license and they sat on it for a long time. And HG didnt start actively blocking Macross toys until the Toycom/Yamato-incident three years ago or so. We all know that, right?

Yeah... but none of that would have happened if BW actually cared about what the heck HG was doing with their property.

Nope. I believe the UC MS-8th anime was quite popular after Wing and the rx-79g was the hottest kit after Wing. Fwiw, Afterwar-X was popular in the early goings in anime, too, before it's ratings went down. Just that their X's HG model-lines sucked. Also note that Bandai shut down AnimeVillage here in the US and directly marketed Gundam DVDs and merchandises (Wing, Stardust, 0080, 8th MS team) here in the US to maintain and sustain their Gundam franchise.

Want to know why it was popular? Its a 12 episode long OVA that took 1 year to be broadcast, being re-run over and over untill its last episode was finally broadcast.. Gundam X ratings didn't go down... it was outright cancelled because ppl felt it was boring and the characters looked too much like Wing.

Models still help the interest on Gundam.

Well, let me put it this way to you, then:

I dislike Macross-7, yet I'm not anywhere as vocal about my dislike of it as much as you are vocal about your dislike of Macross-Zero.

It was a choice I made, if you didn't want to be vocal about Mac 7... then thats your issue.

beg to differ.

It shouldn't take all of the dvd's to be released for Macross-Zero to get it's attention. I rather have Studio Nue take their time refining the anime than rush Zero.

I rather say that Macross-Zero needs to have it's mechas (toys/models) to be out on sale and on display and heavily advertised right now by Yamato or whoever has the toy-license for Zero's popularity in Japan to go up higher. I'm not sure if even Hasegawa has put out any other Zero models other than the Tomcat and the Mig-29 to seed demand for Zero.

Thats not what I meant. I meant that Macross Zero will be popular after all its DVDs are available... not that they should release everything at the same time.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[Aegis!]

LOL.... I never said I disliked Macross so much. I said I Hikaru was an angst ridden teen, and that I disliked Macross Zero. Now... if to you, Macross is just macross Zero then I guess do hate Macross. SDF macross and DYRl are still my top ranking animes to date. Do I have a few complaints about them? Yeah.... but I dislike a few things about every show I like too. Its not enough for me to stop watching macross as a whole. As long as SDF and DYRL are still part of Macross, I will watch them, and I will come here to comment on what I like and dislike about them. I like Macross... have liked it since I was 7. I like Gundam, have liked it since I was 7 too. Both hold the highest place as far as anime goes for me.

I don't need to see a doctor because I dislike Zero..... I simply have no interest on knowing what the heck was going on, on earth before SWI.... it going to be destroyed anyways, so whats the use? What got me into Macross was humanities struggle to survive, and how a song unified humanity and aliens against a common threat, and how that song awoke the aliens to culture. I didn't get into Macross to watch a struggle between humans... because honestly... I can see that just fine now a days. I hate prequels, specially in the case of macross because I know the story that goes on before SDF Macross isn't going to interest me enough. Thats why I say its crap, if something doesn't interest me, I'm going to dislike it. You can't imagine how much effort I put into watching the first Macross Zero last Xmas... you can ask anyone I know.... I was seriously bummed at how it turned out. I didn't want it to be like SDF or DYRL or Macross, I wanted it to be a genuinaly good show, with an interesting story. While Macross Zero has its merits.... it has none of the merits that would require me to like a show.

As far as being popular goes.... theres a flaw in your statement. Japanese fans aren't like American fans. Gundam Wing was a success, you didn't see fans begging for more Wing, they just moved on after the show was over, unlike Americans fans who still seem to wish for Wing 2 every night. Making Macross popular in Japan doesn't necessarely means BW will have to completly change Macross to accomplish that. Japanese fans have far better taste then American fans. And I seriously doubt BW would have to turn macross into a Pokemon of sort to attract their attention

Fair enough , that´s your own personal opinion but there´s a HUGE difference between something unappealing and something being crap , and in that sense Macross Zero isn´t crap at all. It´s sad to see that Kawamori has failed to convince you that Macross Zero isn´t a simple prequel to SDF Macross , it isn´t simply about dumb humans fighting humans (and for that matter aliens vs humans isn´t original or attractive either) , is about the struggle of common people to retain the culture they proudly guard against technology and in a direct manner against the truth behind alien intervention. The struggle of normal people to regain their world , just like in SW1. If anything , Macross Zero is much more culture-orientated than SDF Macross.

It´s sad to see that for you Macross is nothing more than the TV series and DYRL? , yeah they´re also my two favourites anime series in my whole life, they easily top Macross Zero but if you´re unable to enjoy the full picture of what Macross is because of a biased idea of what Macross should be then its your own decision...even if there´s only 2 episodes out.

If you think I was thinking about the american fans when I wrote my statement then you´re terriblt wrong , I don´t even know what american fans like but if japanese fans have been living on Gundam for so long without getting bored of the same stuff then that tells a lot.

When you talk about continous TV series along the years you´re talking about low budget (compared to OVAs of course) , low production time (per episode) and lower quality products at the end of the day and we know what that leads to (ahem ....M7...cough). Macross doesn´t need continuous running series to be popular , what it needs is more publicity and more merchandise.

[Abombz!!]

Well, humans vs aliens is far from being attractive.... but in Macross case, it was original appealing and interesting. I guess its rooted to the fact that I dispise humans vs humans as a whole no matter the setting. He did convince me it was the prequel to SDF Macross, it just didn't interest me. Like I said.... Macross Zero has its merits, just not the right ones to appeal to me.

I don't have a biased idea as to what Macross should be. I was looking for Zero to be a different experience then SDF and DYRL, like Plus was. It was different, but something else was missing. I don't think Macross should be always about the same thing, but as a fan, I have the right to make a judgement on it based on my own anime standards, I won't give it special treatment because its a franchise I enjoy. I enjoy the full picture of what Macross is... I just feel Macross Zero does nothing to increase my enjoyment. Just as many fans chose not to like Macross 7 and sitll enjoy the full picture behind Macross.

My disliking for Macross Zero has nothing to do with it being different from SDF Macross or DYRL. If anything.... was it to be similar to Macross... I wouldn't have liked it even more.

As for Japanese fans and Gundam... they did get bored, one show was nearly cancelled, and the other wasn't popular at all. The old series were interesting... the new ones are not. The new ones attract a different audience.... like 2 different groups. You need to watch Gundam.... and then you will realize the old shows aren't all the same BS like you seem to think.

Edited September 3, 2003 by Abombz!!

[SuperOstrich]

Hikaru an angst-ridden teen? Must've been that other Macross show I missed. Now Shin is an angst-ridden Macross character.

[Vostok 7]

Hikaru an angst-ridden teen? Must've been that other Macross show I missed. Now Shin is an angst-ridden Macross character.

Vostok 7

[Aegis!]

I don't have a biased idea as to what Macross should be. I was looking for Zero to be a different experience then SDF and DYRL, like Plus was. It was different, but something else was missing. I don't think Macross should be always about the same thing, but as a fan, I have the right to make a judgement on it based on my own anime standards, I won't give it special treatment because its a franchise I enjoy. I enjoy the full picture of what Macross is... I just feel Macross Zero does nothing to increase my enjoyment. Just as many fans chose not to like Macross 7 and sitll enjoy the full picture behind Macross.

I share the same vision , whenever a new series comes up I always expect it to be different and independently enjoyable ,and in this respect I think M0 is as different and inovative as M+ was (which by the way was also a human vs human conflict and technology corrupting the human mind ) , the good thing about M0 is that it retains the good things about the other series and implements new concepts and ideas. I would at least see the whole of the series before judging it based solely in just 2 episodes.

I didn´t even start watching Macross Zero because it was Macross , of course I was interested about it in that sense but -i never ever watch any anime specially Macross solely because of the name. My first reason to watch M0 was because it was a good alternative to Yukikaze , it had a lot of potential , it seemed obscure and mature and because it is one of the best anime series in the market right know. the CGI , mechas , and franchise name came in third place at best.

As for Japanese fans and Gundam... they did get bored, one show was nearly cancelled, and the other wasn't popular at all. The old series were interesting... the new ones are not. The new ones attract a different audience.... like 2 different groups. You need to watch Gundam.... and then you will realize the old shows aren't all the same BS like you seem to think.

Yeah , I know about the 2 timelines but I find that a cheap excuse to separate the franchise into a mainstrain anime and a hardcore more mature anime series. That´s why I wouldn´t like Macross to turn into a Gundam-kinda-show , I want solid , good quality anime.

[Abombz!!]

Hikaru an angst-ridden teen? Must've been that other Macross show I missed. Now Shin is an angst-ridden Macross character.

Hmm.... go back ans watch it again. Specially the episodes before he joins the army.

[Abombz!!]

I would at least see the whole of the series before judging it based solely in just 2 episodes.

I am going to watch the rest of it.... simply because its Macross... and becuase I know theres still a chance that I might come to enjoy it.

Yeah , I know about the 2 timelines but I find that a cheap excuse to separate the franchise into a mainstrain anime and a hardcore more mature anime series. That´s why I wouldn´t like Macross to turn into a Gundam-kinda-show , I want solid , good quality anime.

Blame that on Tomino and Bandais inability to get along. <_<