Macross Zero

[Impreszive]

Is anyone else here finding this show hard to get into? I didn't like it until I watched the 3d ep. I don't know if that makes me some Combat Monster or something, but the first 2 eps just didn't grab me at all.

[nekkibasara1213]

Im still pretty neutral on this show. Its going to take an amayzing final 2 episodes to make me like it anywhere near as much as any of the other Macross OVAs and TV series.

[Anubis]

The worst Macross OVA will always be M7 Dynamite. There was so many things they could have done with a Macross7 OVA, but all potential was squandered with a Moby Dick rehash, which barely involved any of the show's cast except Basara. Token appearances from the other Fire Bomber members or Gamlin. At least Gamlin got to strut a little in his new Diamond Force VF-22S, but even that was missing something. Max and Millia didn't even appear. They forgot the whole one-shot use principle of the fold booster. Basara STOLE the Blood smeared VF-19P and took off WITH NO FOLD BOOSTER .

"Send the bill to Ray on M7" my ass. If he ever went back Ray should shove the Guitar down Basara's throat after that.

Just voicing my discontent there. I enjoyed Macross7 a great deal, but the D7 OVA sucked. Look at what M+ did in 4 episodes.

Back to Macross Zero, I enjoy it a great deal, and I think some of the detraction/detachment some people feel is due to the length of time in between each episode's release. You have to get back into it each time an episode comes out. I have a feeling some opinions will changer once all 5 can be viewed back-to-back. They're doing good so far, but it really will be what is accomplished in the last two episodes that will decide on the overall rating of the show. It's a very impressive effort this time.

[Agent ONE]

The worst Macross OVA will always be M7 Dynamite. ...

Or anything M7 for that matter.

MZero hooked me in about 2 min or the first episode. I can't wait for the next ep.

[wolfx]

After looking at the whole Macross 7 franchise, you'd realise they'd go the non-serious way with this series. I know what you mean Anubis, but Macross 7 will never be as heart wrenching, and meaningful as Plus or SDF. You'd realise in M7, everything happens "as a matter of factly." Protodeviln comes, destroys what seems like hundreds of capital ships in one attack.....and the M7 moves on being attacked periodically as if its expected daily routine or something.

M7 can't be taken seriously. So I didn't expect too much from Dynamite, and it was "just another M7 episode". Not such a downer for me.

But if something took itself seriously from the beginning and ended up like Dynamite, then I'd be pissed. Imagine if the whole of the 5th episode of Macross Zero was about Fokker pulling his moves on Aries and Shin going shipping with Mao.....

[dna]

Strange to see how quickly a topic goes off.

[Prime]

M0 had me right from the beginning. I loved the intro

[bandit29]

Macross Zero...eh I loved the first episode, hated the second and kinda liked the third. The character designs are rather ugly and so are the VFs. Macross Zero should have went with a retro late 70's/early 80's anime style of character design.

That scene in episode 2 with Focker and Shin drinking on the side of the ship is just painful to watch

The characters themselves aren't very likeable or interesting. I think the only new one I like is Mao. I hope Edgar and the doctor(forgot her name lol) take a dirtnap.

I was hoping Macross Zero would have some scenes that happen in space instead of it just being around the island the whole time. With just (presumably) only an hour left in Macross Zero, it doesn't look like that's going to happen.

This OVA is better than M7 Dynamite but I think enjoyed Macross II more than Macross Zero.... and Macross Plus is still king of the OVAs....we'll see how the rest of Macross Zero finishes out.

[buffalobob77]

I'd say Macross Zero has me on the battle scenes alone. I have to admit I'm somewhat new to the Macross world, but the direction of the aerial combat in M0 is amazing. Especially the F-14 bit at the beginning of the first episode.

[Wes]

I'm disappointed in the quality of the animation - for as long as it's taking, what, nearly 6 months for 30 minutes of animation?!? And some of the scenes are hit-or-miss - the battle between Roy and DD was just crappy. It should be all near perfection considering.

I think the story still has potential. With the cliffhanger from the last episode, I expect it to really take off at this point. But, I have to wait...

[Agent ONE]

You guys DO realize this is more like a hoby project for Kawamori right... He has other things going on, MZero is like a part time gig.

[twich]

Me? Call me a pushover, but I Love all of it! There is very little of Macross that I do not like. Macross Zero is turning into quite a nice little OVA....I like the designs, the mecha and the story. I hope that there is a lot more Macross goodness on the way down the pipe.

Larry

[bandit29]

You guys DO realize this is more like a hoby project for Kawamori right... He has other things going on, MZero is like a part time gig.

I realize that and it shows. Alot of Macross Zero is half assed.

[Radd]

Me? I'm enjoying Macross Zero so far, as is everyone at my weekly anime night get together. The character developement doesn't seem to be as deep as some other Macross shows, the emphasis appearing to be on action for this outing. I can dig it, though.

To show just how varying opinions are, I like it better than Macross II, and just about on par with Dynamite 7, but I enjoy it for completely different reasons than D7, and it shares many of the things I enjoyed about Plus, though with better action, but weaker character developement. Still, I like the characters well enough. They don't seem to be flat and uninteresting, as it seemed might be the case when watching the first half of the first episode. I'm glad Shin is more than a stoic, tragic emo boy, which I feared was all he would become.

I can see where the people that are very heavily into character developement, romance, and all of that would be put off by how shallow it is in Zero as compared to SDF/DYRL?, and virtually non-existant next to Macross/Dynamite 7 (which had quite the opposite problem). Still, the action is top-notch, the animation is overall very nice. There's been animation that lacks in comparison to the rest of the OVA, but still it's never gotten anywhere near the level of animefiend, or the recycled battles from M7. Personally, I'm a little put off by the CG valkyries, but as far as CG goes I'm impressed, even if I still think the OVA would look far and away better if the Valkyries had been done with high quality cel animation.

I look forward to the reas t of the OVA, and hope that it gets picked up by a good quality distribution company like Geneon or AnimEigo.

[Aegis!]

I´ve noticed , after a lot od threads and debates , that those people dissapointed with Macross Zero are the very same people that expected it to be a SDF Macross remake (in an unfounded way since we all new what it was about since its announcement) ; I don´t mean a remake per se but rather that they were expecting M0 to have almost the same plot , with the same characters (only younger) and the same mechas.

From the momment M0 was announced alll of those people ignored what every macross fan should have embedded in their minds : every single macross series has to be different to all others. Why ? cause Kawamori and BW/SN don´t like to make lame copies of their old work.

Why people find the VF-0 ugly ? cause they wanted a CG VF-1 and got a slightly different mecha with a different name

Why do people dislike the character designs ? cause it ain´t Mikimoto´s work

Why don´t they like the music ? cause it ain´t Yoko Kano´s work

etc, etc, etc...

I feel pity for those who fall into all that nostalgic feelings and want retro looking remakes , that´s just lame IMO , why ? cause otherwise we would be getting the same crap with every single new series like Gundam and that would take away what makes macross special.

I like the plot foremost , since it deals with a great part of that unkown side of macross. The animation is simply top notch and the characters are OK. I have to admit I´m a great fan of the mechas since it reflects the new tendencies Kawamori has taken to his work and I pretty much like this.

I just hope this time the story goes a bit deeper , beyond the mecha battles.

[Impreszive]

Well. Definitly a difference in opinions. I expected that. Cool. I like the 0. The design looks like it can be a direct predecessor to the VF-1 It makes sense. I do hope that things move forward in the next eps. We'll have to wait and see though.

[Lezt]

I´ve noticed , after a lot od threads and debates , that those people dissapointed with Macross Zero are the very same people that expected it to be a SDF Macross remake (in an unfounded way since we all new what it was about since its announcement) ; I don´t mean a remake per se but rather that they were expecting M0 to have almost the same plot , with the same characters (only younger) and the same mechas.

From the momment M0 was announced alll of those people ignored what every macross fan should have embedded in their minds : every single macross series has to be different to all others. Why ? cause Kawamori and BW/SN don´t like to make lame copies of their old work.

Why people find the VF-0 ugly ? cause they wanted a CG VF-1 and got a slightly different mecha with a different name

Why do people dislike the character designs ? cause it ain´t Mikimoto´s work

Why don´t they like the music ? cause it ain´t Yoko Kano´s work

etc, etc, etc...

I feel pity for those who fall into all that nostalgic feelings and want retro looking remakes , that´s just lame IMO , why ? cause otherwise we would be getting the same crap with every single new series like Gundam and that would take away what makes macross special.

I like the plot foremost , since it deals with a great part of that unkown side of macross. The animation is simply top notch and the characters are OK. I have to admit I´m a great fan of the mechas since it reflects the new tendencies Kawamori has taken to his work and I pretty much like this.

I just hope this time the story goes a bit deeper , beyond the mecha battles.

i agree lok at gundam,

seed = 0080,

X = wing,

and all gundam pilots are kids who suddenly get a chance to pilot a gundam... i dun want macross to be like that...

ps

dump Max in a Vf1j against Char on a Zaku, i think max will win...

[Stamen0083]

seed = 0080,

X = wing,

WRONG on BOTH counts.

[CoryHolmes]

I find that Macross Zero is simply plodding along at a snail's pace, the action scenes are too short and far, far too jittery to be properly enjoyed. The camera work alone makes it rather difficult to follow what's going on.

Compare that with Plus, where the camera was held in place and everything was clearly visable. The action scenes in Plus simply blow this (and most other shows) out of the water.

The lack of character development is also a nasty problem that I find Zero has. The characters are flat, uninteresting, and thus far haven't shown any hints at depth or change.

The mecha are sweet and cool... but much too modern in design when compared with the mecha that are supposed to come after them. This is a rather endemic problem with prequels, especially when they're produced many years after the original. The sole exception I find to that is the SV-51 which has the gritty industrial chic look going for it. The SV-51 looks like it was cobbled together with technology that barely fits the function and that makes it perfect for a prequel. The VF-0 is just too reminiscent of Kawamori's later designs to believeably fit into the 2008 timeframe for me.

Another point that doesn't really turn my crank is the addition of magic and anima spirta. I dislike both of those in the Macross universe greatly, even though the latter IS a big thing in Mac7 (yet one more reason why I don't like that show much). I dislike how Sara is able to cause flowers to bloom or make stones levitate just by her singing. Nuh-uh, not for me.

Unlike Mac+, which had me at the opening combat sequence of the OVAs, I'm going to have to wait to see the last two episodes before I can reccomend Zero to others.

[Noyhauser]

Another point that doesn't really turn my crank is the addition of magic and anima spirta. I dislike both of those in the Macross universe greatly, even though the latter IS a big thing in Mac7 (yet one more reason why I don't like that show much). I dislike how Sara is able to cause flowers to bloom or make stones levitate just by her singing. Nuh-uh, not for me.

this coming from a guy who has a sig saying that there is nothing wrong with robotech.

Protoculture anybody?

Edited April 3, 2004 by Noyhauser

[CoryHolmes]

Another point that doesn't really turn my crank is the addition of magic and anima spirta. I dislike both of those in the Macross universe greatly, even though the latter IS a big thing in Mac7 (yet one more reason why I don't like that show much). I dislike how Sara is able to cause flowers to bloom or make stones levitate just by her singing. Nuh-uh, not for me.

this coming from a guy who has a sig saying that there is nothing wrong with robotech.

Protoculture anybody?

The difference being that all of the psychic phenomena in Robotech were in the show right from the start. Robotech and the powers/effects of Protoculture in that show were a big thing since day one.

Same thing with Evangelion, Angel Cop, and a whole host of other shows that I enjoy, because the non-technological bits were planned right from the start and not introduced until several sequels later on, and then we're told "Okay, this is how it's always been and now everything is like this."

Unlike in Macross where there's NO mention of "magic" or "anima spirita" until Macross 7, and now it's being further reinforced by Zero. Thank you very much, but I prefer the tone and style Macross Plus (and to a lesser extent) SDF had for the universe. Macross' pure tech story is one of the few things that really attracted me to it, and now that it's being changed I don't like it very much.

[Aegis!]

Another point that doesn't really turn my crank is the addition of magic and anima spirta. I dislike both of those in the Macross universe greatly, even though the latter IS a big thing in Mac7 (yet one more reason why I don't like that show much). I dislike how Sara is able to cause flowers to bloom or make stones levitate just by her singing. Nuh-uh, not for me.

this coming from a guy who has a sig saying that there is nothing wrong with robotech.

Protoculture anybody?

The difference being that all of the psychic phenomena in Robotech were in the show right from the start. Robotech and the powers/effects of Protoculture in that show were a big thing since day one.

Same thing with Evangelion, Angel Cop, and a whole host of other shows that I enjoy, because the non-technological bits were planned right from the start and not introduced until several sequels later on, and then we're told "Okay, this is how it's always been and now everything is like this."

Unlike in Macross where there's NO mention of "magic" or "anima spirita" until Macross 7, and now it's being further reinforced by Zero. Thank you very much, but I prefer the tone and style Macross Plus (and to a lesser extent) SDF had for the universe. Macross' pure tech story is one of the few things that really attracted me to it, and now that it's being changed I don't like it very much.

you should Rewatch Macross.

I think you missed the episode where Exedol is shocked by the powers shown in Linn Kaifun´s movie and reffers to the protoculture and its powers.

Now , who exactly were the anima spirita ? Protoculture beings with spirita powers.

See.

Anyway , I don´t know why everyone is assuming Sara is using Spirita , since Mayan is supposedly a Protoculture Vessel ( which obviously functions under the commands of the protoculture ) and the islanders included Sara are suppossed to be Protoculture decendants then why should it be Spirita and not a simple reaction from the Protoculture Vessel to Sara´s song which could very well be taken as command s by the Vessel/island ?

[CoryHolmes]

The difference is that before Macross 7 was ever thought up, before Zero ever reinforced those issues, waaaaaaay back when SDF was first released, there as no mention of anima spirita at all.

Without that idea or concept, it's easy for me to see how Exodol's reaction is mere shock and non-comprehension about the images that he's seeing. Simple cultural shock and nothing more.

However, you bring up an excellent point in that with the plots of Mac7 and Zero, that has changed from culture shock to "magic" and "spirita", and again, that's a change I don't like. I preferred it just as it was, thanks.

why should it be Spirita and not a simple reaction from the Protoculture Vessel to Sara´s song which could very well be taken as command s by the Vessel/island ?

Because it's much easier to swallow if it were Spirita as opposed to some NEW form of ESP/magic powers. And I don't really see how the flowers or stones on the island could be a part of the protoculture ship. The ship being beneath the island, yes, I can see that. But not the crust on top.

[Sundown]

I´ve noticed , after a lot od threads and debates , that those people dissapointed with Macross Zero are the very same people that expected it to be a SDF Macross remake

Why people find the VF-0 ugly ? cause they wanted a CG VF-1 and got a slightly different mecha with a different name

Why do people dislike the character designs ? cause it ain´t Mikimoto´s work

Why don´t they like the music ? cause it ain´t Yoko Kano´s work

etc, etc, etc...

Why can't someone be entitled to their opinion? Why this need to "explain away" others' opinions simply because they differ from yours? It's as if they disagree with you, then their outlook or perspective is somehow skewed, distorted, or misguided.

Plenty of folks don't dig Zero because there's just not quite as much to dig. Mac+ was decidedly different from SDF, and yet, some of these same folks ate it right up.

People have differing tastes. And if they don't dig what you do, it doesn't mean their thought processes are somehow muddled or screwed up-- that if they were enlightened enough to approach Zero the way you have, they'd see it for how great it really is. It just means they don't dig what you do. And what's there doesn't do enough for them.

I've noticed a trend here, Aegis. You tend to back up your opinions and views by disparaging those who disagree, and by painting them and why they feel the way they do in a decidedly negative light, as if they're somehow daffy or ig'nant for not embracing Zero, M7, and whatnot. Can we please move away from maligning those who see differently, and arguing the virtues and lack of the series/toy/whatever itself?

Reasons I'm lukewarm to Zero:

Little character development: most of what's there doesn't have the bite that stories I do dig have. Yes. I expect good character interaction. I expect something that isn't bland, and am going to be dissapointed if I'm not satiated. Sue me.

Mediocre CG: what's there just doesn't do it for me. Valks are way overweathered, dogfight animations come across as a little bit fake and jarring, and the mecha designs just don't tickle my sense of aesthetics. They're not horrid.. they're just not classics, even though I do like the VF-0 in fighter mode.

Character Design: I actually like most of the designs, although Roy could have used more oomph. But the lack of character development doesn't make them come out alive enough. And the way they're rendered is decidedly plain and understated. Understated's fine when you have good dialogue driving the characters and giving them life anyway. But you don't.

Plot: I don't dig magic and tribal mysticism in my "real-type-mecha" animes. Just not my thing. I do like the Aphos angle lots, but with only one more episode left, 'Mori's got a lot of 'splainin' to do.

Music: It's just... there. Sara's singing doesn't have enough oomph, and she doesn't work her star material, nor has her singing been entwined with the action in a bigger than life way, yet anyway. Both of these are Macross traditions. So far, her singing's just a reason to: show her nekkid, make flowers bloom, and make rocks float. If I wanted tribal sing song, I'd watch Pocahontas.

-Al

[Sundown]

you should Rewatch Macross.

I think you missed the episode where Exedol is shocked by the powers shown in Linn Kaifun´s movie and reffers to the protoculture and its powers.

Now , who exactly were the anima spirita ? Protoculture beings with spirita powers.

See.

Nope. That was one vague reference to some undefined "ancient power" of legend. That alone does not recast the *central themes* of Macross: emotion, culture shock, and the power of love and music-- into mere mediums for "anima spiritia".

Except by ret-con and except by those using such to forcefit the concept into SDF and the rest of the continuity.

The whole reason such forcefitting and retcon feels necessary by either fans or the Macross creators is because they *don't* fit well or very elegantly into either SDF or M+ as they were originally presented. That's fine and dandy, even as it strikes me as poor storytelling... but pointing to a 10 second scene in a 16 hour series, and suggesting that someone's clueless for taking issue with the abudance of magic in M7 and Zero is... well, off base.

Being told "this is the way it's been all along", and pointing to one single obscure reference as if it were undeniable evidence of forethought, in what's a much larger work that doesn't actually at all *feel* paranormal and magicky-- smells of revisionism... and worse-- poor, unplanned, no-big-picture, pulling-things-out-my-butt writing.

-Al

[Panon]

I think you missed the episode where Exedol is shocked by the powers shown in Linn Kaifun´s movie and reffers to the protoculture and its powers.

Don't start this again. That's a near insignificant scene that coincidently fits with a retcon rationalisation.

The main point is - why does it even need a rationalisation? Macross isn't some static universe confined to some twenty year old set of predefined rules, it's an evolving universe.

Original Macross did not incorporate mysticism, spirituality or 'magic'. Not now, not when it was made. Later entries to the series however, have.

Chose not to personally like them fine, but make no mistake - don't for a second think that those concepts are "not Macross" since the original series didn't contain them because Kawamori and co are the ones who make that call, and they've decided that those elements very much ARE what Macross is.

But back to the actual topic here - I've been happy with Macross Zero so far. I've the the characters, the action and the story. The animation is one of the more stunning works of the last couple of years, and the CG animation is top notch. The only thing I'm uncertain of so far is the pacing - with episode 4 out soon the series will be all but over, while at the moment it feels like a smaller part of a larger work. Time will tell I guess.

[Radd]

Damn you people. I'm not typing this out again.

Macross has always seemed to me to be about 3 main things. A war/mech story, characters and relationships, and music. Different Macross shows have played with which of these elements take priority and to what extent, but these elements have been important to all Macross shows.

...

I have never seen spiritua or how music was used in Macross 7 as any form of magic. I can definitely see how some people might, but it didn't come off that way for me.

...

It seemed that the original reason the military (a very small, yet influential part of the military) backed Basara at all (Max and Ray being able to provide him with a VF-19 custom and all) was to recreate the culture shock aspect of how Minmay proved so successful in Space War I. Part of that is the pure shock that caused the hesitation in Bodolza's forces in that final battle, but even bigger was the long term effect Minmay had on Britai's forces as the Macross fought it's way back to Earth. Slowly bringing about defections in the Zentradi forces, and eventually helping to bring Britai's entire force over to aid the Macross.

...

I've always seen the light emitted from Basara and Mylene and Sound Force in general being an embellishment, much like hearing sound in space battles.

To me, Macross Zero has the closest to what we could call 'magic' in a Macross show, and even there the jury is still out as it likely has more to do with the Protoculture's advanced technology and understanding than some mystical power.

(Insert Arthur C. Clark quote here.)

Ok, now about the VF-0 supposedly looking "more advanced" than the VF-1:

I still say that the VF-1 looks a lot more compact and streamlined than the VF-0.

...

Oh, and kinda in line with what Panon said, compare the line art, not the animation. Of course the VF-0 is gonna look more advanced if you're comparing SDF Macross animation to Macross Zero animation. (I think the Valk animation in DYRL? looks better than both, though.)

...

Compare a 57 Chevy, with the cone break lights, the tail fins, all that, to a boxy 80's car. Which one looks more 'futuristic'? Well, if you had an objective viewer who didn't know a 50's car from an 80's car, or what a modern car looked like, they would say that the 57 Chevy looked more futuristic. More embellishments in the design and asthetics. Of course, compare the actual mechanics and the 80's car that looks so much more bland and utilitarian would more than likely win.

I agree that the asthetics Kawamori put to use in the VF-0 are more reminiscent of his later designs, like the VF-19, and the VF-11 and all those. He seemed to feel no need to restrict the asthetics of the mech. Nothing wrong with that. However, the frame is much more gangly, the transformation is simpler, and the body of the craft boasts awkward bulges to accomodate the internal fuel tanks. Something the sleeker, smaller VF-1 doesn't have to worry about.

Star Wars had the same problem. The craft in the prequels look more 'futuristic' than their descendants in the prequels, but only in asthetics. Even then it's much more of a retro-futuristic asthetic. Hell, they even went all out on the chrome. Still, people complained that things looked more advanced, when this really wasn't the case.

By this same way, one could argue that the GameBoy Advance looks more futuristic than the GBA SP. Sure, the SP is smaller and sleeker, but it's also simpler looking. Meanwhile, the GBA is larger, and it doesn't fold up, but it is more ergonomic in the overall design.

As for the destroids, in that case your comparing top of the line modern animation, in a sequence in which the destroids were featured above anything else...compared to early 80's animefiend animation, and maybe a couple snippets from DYRL? where the destroids were just background material.

Have I missed anything? I saw some great posts regarding these topics by other people, but I'll leave it to them to either quote themselves or type out their views yet again for the argument that refuses to die.

[Keith]

Considering that the origins of the Protoculture & their influence on Earth were intentionally left vague in the original series, no one can firmly say that what's become of the Macross universe wasn't always intended. ESPECIALLY considering Kawamori & Mikimoto started out as huge Gundam fans, which :::gasp::: had "Newtypes" as a major plot point.

Like it or not, EVEN in Macross Plus "magic" (as some are choosing to coin it) is part of the continuity. What the hell do you think the whole deal with Sharon was? She was a computer simulated representation of the same power used by Basara, Sara, etc. The more the story is fleshed out, and the origins are revealed, the more we learn about the spiritia powers of the Macross universe.

[J A Dare]

Unlike in Macross where there's NO mention of "magic" or "anima spirita" until Macross 7, and now it's being further reinforced by Zero.  Thank you very much, but I prefer the tone and style Macross Plus (and to a lesser extent) SDF had for the universe.  Macross' pure tech story is one of the few things that really attracted me to it, and now that it's being changed I don't like it very much.

ummm...there was plenty of "magic" in M+, e.g. Sharon becoming sentient/conscious, controlling electrical cords to hang and strangle Myung, materializing in Dyson's cockpit, controlling the Ghost, and I'm sure there are other examples I can't remember at the moment. Just because it wasn't explicitly given a name in M+ doesn't mean it didn't exist. To be honest, the concept of a computer program having "anime spirita" is just as weird and convoluted than anything out there in the Macross universe. Nevertheless, that does not detract my liking of M+. I too love the tech aspect (no hint or mentioning of "anima spirita"). And when I'm in the mood for that, I watch the Macross Hory Trinity, SDF TV + DYRL? + FB2012.

[dedalus001]

i liked the intro to macross zero with a new perspective on the unification wars, but i feel like it was made to suit the present that we are actually living in, rather than the future seen from 1982. i don't really like the fact that Mzero ties into contemporary warfare and such- it loses its imaginary aspect and gets kind of bland with (gasp) dull modern warfare. ep3 was nice because we see the destroid prototypes and some nice battles, but before that, i wasn't very interested in the show; the music bothered me during the action sequences, the characters and silly jokes weren't all that funny, and i am pretty sure that many things are going to go unanswered in the next 2- 30 min episodes. I don't think we will know anything about the Roy/Ivanov rivalry, something i wanted to look forward to when i first saw ep2, and i've always wanted to see ASS-1/SDF-1 in the show (Aries has referred to it in ep1) but i really doubt it. whenever i see a prequel like this, i always look forward to it answering all the questions i have only to not get any of them answered.

[KingNor]

in my opinion, there is too much "magic" and the valks are un-inspiring for me. its neat seeing fokker again. but he doesn't really look like himself.

its not an intresting serise in my opinion. too diffrent from SDF on fundamental points.

[treatment]

re: Macross Plus "magic"

"Magic", my ass.

There is NO "MAGIC" in Macross Plus.

Sharon was an Artificial Intelligence. Her normal functionality was enhanced with a rogue and dangerous man-made self-preservation system addition.

That's it.

Calling that "magic" is extremely stupid.

re: Macross Zero

I like it alot. The mysticism-angle in Zero was good. It was not corny. It was old-world culture (mayan) vs new-world culture (un/anti-un).

Can't wait for the remaining episodes.

The only thing I don't like about Zero are the upcoming Zero 1/100 scale toys. Why the heck didn't they do it in 1/48 scale instead? *sigh*

[Keith]

Macross Plus & 7 are two opposite sides of the same "magic" coin. In one you have a digital representation of a phenomenon, and in the other you have a biological representation of it. Open your eyes.

[Aegis!]

I´ve noticed , after a lot od threads and debates , that those people dissapointed with Macross Zero are the very same people that expected it to be a SDF Macross remake

Why people find the VF-0 ugly ? cause they wanted a CG VF-1 and got a  slightly different mecha with a different name

Why do people dislike the character designs ? cause it ain´t Mikimoto´s work

Why don´t they like the music ? cause it ain´t Yoko Kano´s work

etc, etc, etc...

Why can't someone be entitled to their opinion? Why this need to "explain away" others' opinions simply because they differ from yours? It's as if they disagree with you, then their outlook or perspective is somehow skewed, distorted, or misguided.

Plenty of folks don't dig Zero because there's just not quite as much to dig. Mac+ was decidedly different from SDF, and yet, some of these same folks ate it right up.

People have differing tastes. And if they don't dig what you do, it doesn't mean their thought processes are somehow muddled or screwed up-- that if they were enlightened enough to approach Zero the way you have, they'd see it for how great it really is. It just means they don't dig what you do. And what's there doesn't do enough for them.

I've noticed a trend here, Aegis. You tend to back up your opinions and views by disparaging those who disagree, and by painting them and why they feel the way they do in a decidedly negative light, as if they're somehow daffy or ig'nant for not embracing Zero, M7, and whatnot. Can we please move away from maligning those who see differently, and arguing the virtues and lack of the series/toy/whatever itself?

Reasons I'm lukewarm to Zero:

Little character development: most of what's there doesn't have the bite that stories I do dig have. Yes. I expect good character interaction. I expect something that isn't bland, and am going to be dissapointed if I'm not satiated. Sue me.

Mediocre CG: what's there just doesn't do it for me. Valks are way overweathered, dogfight animations come across as a little bit fake and jarring, and the mecha designs just don't tickle my sense of aesthetics. They're not horrid.. they're just not classics, even though I do like the VF-0 in fighter mode.

Character Design: I actually like most of the designs, although Roy could have used more oomph. But the lack of character development doesn't make them come out alive enough. And the way they're rendered is decidedly plain and understated. Understated's fine when you have good dialogue driving the characters and giving them life anyway. But you don't.

Plot: I don't dig magic and tribal mysticism in my "real-type-mecha" animes. Just not my thing. I do like the Aphos angle lots, but with only one more episode left, 'Mori's got a lot of 'splainin' to do.

Music: It's just... there. Sara's singing doesn't have enough oomph, and she doesn't work her star material, nor has her singing been entwined with the action in a bigger than life way, yet anyway. Both of these are Macross traditions. So far, her singing's just a reason to: show her nekkid, make flowers bloom, and make rocks float. If I wanted tribal sing song, I'd watch Pocahontas.

-Al

Hey , I´m just pointing out WHY some people may not like it. I ain´t saying it´s bad not to like it.

Chill out man , no one is trying to discriminate anyone like we were in some sort of Ku Klux Klan

Formost , I don´t think Macross Zero is THE most incredibly awesome anime out there , but as far as other anime titles it´s certainly one of the most well acomplished OVA series out there as well as a great Macross series in itself.

I donñt know if you have a continous habit of watching a variety of OVA series , but if you want really deep character development you should really watch TV series instead of M0 , in fact if you ain´t really used to watching OVA series and you´re watching Zero just because it´s macross then simply don´t watch it.

Again I´m not saying in any way you´re some sort of idiot because you don´t like it , what I´ve said are just recommendation and simple observations as to why you don´t like it in contrast to my points on why I like it.

As I said before, those people like you who don´t like it probably expexted some sort of documental on the events before SW1 , with everything reflecting every single thing in SDF Macross or the style of M+.

Unfortunatelly this is never the case with Macross , cause it´s always different.

It´s funny to see people assume M0 is all about spirita and all that crap cause so far it´s has never even been remotedly mentioned in the OVAs.

For the M7 haters I should point out that If there´s ever been a Macross series radically different to M7 that´s surely M0.

There´s absolutelly no focus on the music as seen in M7, there´s a lot on enphasis on the Mecha development and the plot is MUCH more deeper and relevatn to the continity than in M7.

And no , I don´t love M7 , you can give that title to some other geek out there but I have quite a lot of things against M7 unlike some others I´ve an obejective judgement on that series and I don´t see why we should discuss this in this thread. I would appreciate if M7 haters stay away from M0 threads as it seems that when there´s a lack of M7 bashing threads they find the necessity to screw the good mood on other people´s threads (not saying you´re on of them but your comments on M7 will surely attract those kind of people).

The only point I should agree with you is in the character development department , in comparison to other Macross series Macross Zero has shown a definitive lack of character development , but since I´m watching it mostly because of the plot and action I don´t give a crap about the characters.

I think you´re fairly alone on your opinion in regard to the CG since M0 has already won a award for its animation merits.

I don´t know how you can judge the plot already considering the OVAs are not even finnished yet.

If I had done the same with Plus or SDF Macross I would´ve thrown those 2 titles to the bin in the firts 2 episodes ; if you´re enlightened enough to judge something way ahead of its definitive end then kudos to you but some of us try to reserve our judgement until its finished.

At least we didn´t get another M7 kinda anime or a Sentou Yuosei Yukikaze

[JsARCLIGHT]

(pokes head into thread)

I'm not going to get involved in the argument going on here I'm just going to state my personal feelings on M0 and get back out.

I myself do not like Macross Zero as it lacks that certain "something" that drew me in to the original SDF: Macross a long time ago. I think it mostly has to do with there being a 20 year gap between my first initial "wow" at the transforming fighters and the storyline and today... everything since the original TV series and DYRL to me is just a rehash, a facelift or a shallow imitation of the show's once greatness. Seriously how many times can you redesign a transforming fighter that usually just looks like the one before it with slight changes with the same cookie cutter storylines and cookie cutter shallow anime characters before you just throw your hands up and say "that's it, I'm going back to steel".

Macross Zero is developing the story waaaaaay too slow for the pace of the OAV IMHO, they focus too much on quick scenes of splash and dash to keep the audience interested (so basically you are buying that DVD they bring out every, what, 6 months to see a few seconds of mecha combat followed by 29 minutes of nonsensical story that is not moving anywhere fast and very little character development). My guess is this show is going to do what a lot of OAVs do which is wrap the entire story up in the last episode, which makes parts 1-4 basically fluff.

I personally think Macross Zero is Kawamori's weakest story to date. I dislike Macross 7 but you have to admit that at least it has characer development and a long spanning story (albiet M7 has the same problem M0 has: the story does not get going until half the thing is over with).

I personally am holding out for a new Macross TV series rather than some all filler and no substance 5 part OAV.

(runs out of thread before M0 lovers kill him)