Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I bought this kit from our friendly neighborhood Valkyrie awhile ago. Might I say fine job, my friend. The quality of the resin is good... nothing that can't be fixed with some good old sanding and putty. I liked the kit so much, I picked up another one yesterday. On to the build up. Now please realize this is my FIRST resin kit, and only my third real model since I got back into the hobby. I am really happy with the actual build, but I am VERY VERY worried that I am on a course to screw up the paint job... but hell, I'm going to chalk this one up to a learning experience. As you can see in the picture below, I have primered (mr. surfacer), lightly sanded, and applied the first coat. Now this is where the experiment starts. I applied (unfortunately very sloppily) grey airbrush strokes along the panel lines. I plan to apply a brighter shade of white and buff color mix on top of this. I will lightly dust the areas where the grey was applied so as to mute the change between the panels and the lines. I'm not sure this will work (Heaven help me... I am deviating from Master Cheng's guidance!), but I think you won't know until you try. I think as in life, you learn more from the things you screw up than the things you get right. Below here is the fuselage: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Next, here are the nacelles... I over sanded some of the panel lines on this... and I poorly rescribed most of them. I had particular trouble getting the panels surrounding the landing bay doors right... not a great fit. By the way, if you hadn't noticed yet... this will be an in flight VF-4 as I am building it with the landing gear up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Ok... now here are some of the separate pieces. Man, I wish I had that fancy Alclad that WM Cheng used on his MAVE FRX-00 for those thrusters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Ok... here is a brief fit. You can see that Valkyrie did a pretty good job with the vacuum forming cockpit cover. It is NOT easy to cut them to make it fit perfectly, but I think I'm close enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 whoops... here it is: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Now here is all the "In Process" models just waiting to be completed. My wife and I are expecting our second child any day now... so most of my free time is trying to help my wife get comfortable (watch out for those raging hormones!). I also want to wait until I get my basement remodeled to set up my spray booth area. I just got a new Paasche booth... and it looks great! Notice the Bandai Yukikaze Super Sylph and MAVE FRX-00. Also the Ma.K. models (I've never done one, but they look like soooo much fun). I think you can see the Low-Vis Yamato back there too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 What's the final paint scheme going to be? And it seems EVERYBODY's doing a Yukikaze model but me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I hate to say it, but i've been modelling for as long as I can remember, and this is better than how a lot of my stuff ends up...... So, for a first resin kit, this is good work. Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UN Spacy Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 It's looking better and better Less than Super Ostrich! How much time (a day) do you get to work on the VF-4? When did you pick up this piece? What do you planned for the next model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 What's the final paint scheme going to be? An off white plus any decals I can scrape up from old VF-1 models. I may be a little more creative on the other VF-4 I bought. How much time (a day) do you get to work on the VF-4? I only work on it about 1 night a week for a couple of hours on the weekend. Job and family keeps me pretty busy... where has all my free time gone? When did you pick up this piece? About a month ago from Valkyrie (another blatant advertisement!). What do you planned for the next model? Good question. I think I am going to hold off on that SDF-1 Cruiser mode resin kit (the G-System one). I've completed the bulk of the model, but I need to improve my airbrushing skills for that MoFo. I will likely try the Yukikaze Super Sylph. (However I hesitate trying to follow the Master Cheng, when he just finished that one a month ago!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Hey LTSO, Great start - man I love this plane!! I can't wait to see more. Don't hesitate to start on anything just because I've built it - hey its posted to encourage people to try it or build it - please do what you want and I'll be watching Just an observation (don't take it the wrong way) but your grey lines seem a little coarse - like I can see the spray pattern or lots of little dots that make up your line. What type of airbrush do you have and what tip or spray pattern are you using? This could also be affected by the amount of pressure you are spraying with and the type of paint. You should get a fine line with no real visible dots - you should try to get a finer spray - the goal is to make it not look like its spray painted on. I also didn't get what you mean by dusting it after the white coat on top. Please don't worry about deviating from my techniques - they are just my trial and errors with my particular equipment - everybody has a different working style and haddicap (mine is that I suck at hand painting - I can't get rid of the brush marks) so I airbrush everything. But I want to learn from everyone here too - so please feel free to experiement so we can all learn!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 29, 2003 Author Share Posted August 29, 2003 Just an observation (don't take it the wrong way) but your grey lines seem a little coarse - like I can see the spray pattern or lots of little dots that make up your line. What type of airbrush do you have and what tip or spray pattern are you using? This could also be affected by the amount of pressure you are spraying with and the type of paint. You should get a fine line with no real visible dots - you should try to get a finer spray - the goal is to make it not look like its spray painted on. I also didn't get what you mean by dusting it after the white coat on top. Thanks much, WMC.. I'd never take constructive criticism the wrong way! I welcome it with open arms. The spray patterns were VERY haphazard (I am not happy about it, but since it will end up being mostly covered by the post shading, I'm not worried too much)... I have been trying to get the paint thinned, air pressure, and distance from model thing right... but only practice will make it happen, I think. The paint has been thinned to about 3 parts Tamiya paint and 1 part water. The pressure I use is about 15 psi. I hold the airbrush about 1/2 inch away. Do these stats sound right? I plan to do a post shading with an off white (hopefully with MUCH more accuracy than the pre-shade gray). If the pre-shading still shows through, I may dust it again with more off-white.... we'll see. The airbrush is a Badger 155 Anthem... it's selling point is that you are supposed to be able to only need one tip. It's my first airbrush, so I'm clearly not an expert. I have tried to be careful with it, but perhaps I need a new tip. I make sure to clean it after each use with windex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 (edited) I see its a double action if I'm not mistaken (you press the trigger for air pressure and pull back for paint flow?) They are a little hard to master at first. I would invest in Tamiya thinner - I know its a bit expensive, but if you use Windex to clean the airbrush and only use the thinner to thin the paint then it will go a long way (mine has lasted me for over 4 years). You can thin Tamiya paints with water, but the thinner has some flow additives that aid in airbrushing, and might be able to help atomize the paint pegments while still inside the airbrush barrel producing a finer mist. 3:1 paint to thinner is a good ratio (I don't know if its the same with water though). You could try a little more thinner when doing the pre/post shading than you would normally to just cover the plane. I might try a higher PSI around 20-25 when I usually paint, unless the stuff specifies a lower PSI like metallics or heavier stuff like the Alclad. Try practicing on a piece of paper or card for a while first to get the hang of the line - you should be able to get a pretty smooth line that is 2-3 mm thick without problems, then practice to get a 1mm line around the thickness of a fat "B" pencil. Its just practice. I usually still practice on a piece of cardboard just before I spray on the model everytime to check paint consistency and get my hands into the practice. It's like warm-up whenever you play any sports Edited August 29, 2003 by wm cheng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Man, he appears to have the same problem I do, I just can't get my airbrush fine enough either, and still remain smooth. I've heard that i might be better off with a gravity feeder than a siphon, but I don't have the funds for another Iwata. (and after getting mine, I'll never use anything else) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 Its not the tool Cmd McBride - just practice, pressure and paint consistency (plus a clean head and needle - preferably one that is straight and true) Make sure the needle is not bent or have any debris stuck on it. Totally dissassemble the airbrush and clean every part again - make sure there is no debris. I've been using my crappy cheap Badger 150 single action for the last 15 years! and its great. Sometimes the more expensive ones can be a bit more complicated and clog up more frequently. I really recommend siphon feeds since you can use a cup or a bottle - the gravity feed ones have the reservior intergrated into the body of the airbrush - its small, will not cover a lot of area in one go, awkward for mixing, and you cannot spray inverted without the paint falling out or spilling onto the model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander McBride Posted August 29, 2003 Share Posted August 29, 2003 I think it may be my tip on needle, actually. My tip is a little gunked up, and I haven't been able to extract the paint. Everything else should be clean, as I regurlarly strip it apart and soak it in thinner, than scrub off the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hingtgen Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Super Ostrich----there's a limitless supply of decals for real planes, 99% of which are the same as VF's use. Also--while I suck at painting, I *rock* at decaling. Ask away if you need anything. (I decal so well, you can see and feel the orange peel and brushstrokes in the paint it's laying on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxojayz Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 (edited) Very impressive work. I saw this through the Hobbyfan.com link. Great step by step! ~baxojayz Edited August 30, 2003 by baxojayz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 LtSO! that thing looks great so far! keep at it! L06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 (edited) I can't stress enough how PSI affects the atomization of the paint when airbrushing. I was just painting tonight and just for the heck of it I adjusted the psi up and down on my compressor. Sure enough at 15 psi it looked like raindrops on the model and at 25 psi it looked like fog. The double action is great on my airbrush, I really love the ability to control paint flow and the less paint I use the closer I can get to the subject and the finer the line. Edited August 31, 2003 by Grayson72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robokochan Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 Man excellent work. I wish I had those skills. I guess it would also help not being color-blind Seriously GREAT JOB! Rob MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 you guys are being too kind... and I appreciate the positive response... but I gotta admit, I am a little disappointed with the progress of the model. I tried again tonight to get the pre-shading effect right with no luck. I ended up stripping all the paint off an starting over. I think I'm just going to paint it "newish" with a black wash for the panel lines. The pre-shading and post-shading are just to difficult for me at this point in my airbrushing education. Perhaps one day I'll be able to compete, but for now I am going to do it the simple way. I'll have some pics later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbxman Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Well, the ability preshading takes time to develop, I so far, am still learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I built my first few Hase VF-1's with pre-shaded panel lines. That was before I read WM Cheng's guide to doing washes (which I still have yet to attempt...). It was a pain, but it worked. I would go over all the panel lines with thinned black paint, then wipe off the excess with a little thinner on a Q-tip. The result were some very dark panel lines. Then the white primer and whipe topcoat subdued them into a pale gray. It worked, but the hard part was keeping a consistant shade of gray between all the parts. If I ever get around to building another, I'll just wash all the panel lines, and only use pre-shading for the most subtle of shading effects. Maybe something kinda like what LTSO was going for there, but with a lighter shade of gray. I'd want the transition between colors to be very subtle when it was finished. Otherwise, it'd just look like a camo attempt gone horribly wrong Keep it up, LTSO! I'll be looking forward to seeing your second attempt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Hey LTSO, Don't get discouraged. Try it on a piece of white paper or cardboard. Thin some light grey paint down (better on the brown side than blue - warm grey looks dirtier than cool greys) and play with your airbrush at different trigger flowrates and different air pressures. Grayson is exactly correct, the PSI affects the atomization of the paint so much. Play on the paper to get some lines and see how fine you can get it (also notice the size of the dots in the spray pattern). You don't have to do it to this VF-4 baby, but just try it out on a piece of paper. Usually, to get a really fine line, I hold it quite close to the model around an inch. You can see my piece of practice paper in the background - the lines should seem like a soft pencil - you shouldn't see any dots in it. Good luck - just practice and experiement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Hey WM, what's the mix ratio for panel lines? I know you posted this before but I can't remember where. Is it still 3:1 or do you use 2:1 for the panels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007-vf1 Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Just in case you ever again encounter a problem like that one I have a suggestion. Grayson is correct on the pressure of the compressor/can being the cause that gave you that motted effect with huge dropplets on the model; It was way too low. The best way to fix it is stopping dead and adjust the air flow before messing the model further. But if you have that one type of paint already mixed and want to give it one last use before it dries out...and you are in a roll and don't wanna stop... here's my solution: -keep going. Yes, If you see that the panel lines aren't getting saturated with paint then you are still in luck. What you wanna do is over paint beyond the ridges of the pannel line ( #1 red arrow has a small area filled compared to the #2 arrow)and over paint around the whole area. keep moving the airbrush relatively fast to avoid blobs of paint. Let it dry. - Check the pressure and the airbrush; the motted affect could also be caused because the airway is clogged by dry paint. You'll have to practice the technique quickly somewhere else before aplaying it to the model just to make sure that is working properly. -What you'll do next is "fill" the area in between the panel lines with the base color you had or an even lighter color ( this is the MAX technique). This is a tedious technique that requires concentration, a good control of the finger, small strokes and also constant movement of the airbrush ( the nozzle has to be on a small aperture or fine line set). - I'll illustrate it on the pic. The trick is this, ( double action) start with a high air flow ( under 35 PSI) but don't let any paint spray out of the airbrush yet; get the nozzle close to the model 2-5 In. Then press softly (single-double) start pressing the trigger very slowly until you can see some specks of paint coming out just like in the motted effect that low pressure has. But since now we have a higher pressure rate as soon as you let that finger go it will splat the whole model and you'll get paint runs... This is where the good finger control comes in handy. So increase the finger pressure slowly until the area starts getting slighly saturated ( it only takes a mere second to spot this happening). Now you better start moving the whole airbrush around the area or you'll get splots and paint runs. Then follow the white and blue arrow patterns( suggested, but once you get practice you'll get a better way to apply the paint) starting on the middle/center and then working your way out towards the panels in an oval motion... Keep the airbrush moving fast enough so when you repaint over the area, the preceding pass has already dried. This technique doesn't required an specific air pressure since the mixing rates and paints might vary 25-35 PSI is a big range to chose from and still get good results. Is more like a hit-miss-hit crash-course way to get it done with the minimum chance of making mistakes. And how I got it in about 2 tries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Yes Grayson, its a higher thinner to paint than I would use normally to cover a model. You get a more viscous mixture - easier to control to make fine lines with - and you want it to be subtle more transparent. Just becareful you are not spraying thinner though - you want it to be fairly dry when it hits the model especially when you are an inch or two away - otherwise it may run, and you don't want run lines. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 (edited) Ok... alot has happened since the last pic. I washed off the first coat due to my failure at pre-shading (don't worry wmcheng... i haven't given up yet, but still don't think I'm going to try it on this one). I snapped the model in half in the process. I epoxied it back together and had to re-putty, re-sand, and re-prime the whole thing. Yes... call it my battle scars of modeling! Here is the rebuilt VF-4... I've done a coat of off-white again. I plan to do an oil wash and charcoal pastel weathering after I do the cockpit and other details. (p.s. do you like my little coat hanger stand? got the idea from wmcheng on the elintseeker build up.) Edited September 4, 2003 by Less than Super Ostrich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 now it's startin to look good, i like that kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wm cheng Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Hey that looks great!! Where did you snap it - you can't tell at all - keep it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Hey that looks great!! Where did you snap it - you can't tell at all - keep it up right down the middle... the fuselage of the plane meets right behind the small set of wings (which are behind the cockpit). Ugly break... but a decent recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I'm working on building one of my own VF-4's as a side project right now, and I actually found that it's almost better not to have a perfectly smooth seam between those two parts. I glued mine in place with some gap-filling super glue, then sanded the seam smooth. But when I got aroung to re-etching panel lines, I found that I actually want a panel line at that seam, at the top of the fuselage. So I had to try to etch a line freehand over that convex surface, just behind the glue line, and I'm still not sure how successful I was. But I'll find out when I get around to painting it (prolly a couple months from now <_< ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Looking good...keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 so what color scheme is it gonna turn out to be? Max? Millia? Hikaru? maybe a Max-style in Kakizaki Colors? (hey, a green VF-4, no one's ever done that before) if it's Kakizaki, what would it's number be? 404? 505? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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