Myersjessee Posted November 10, 2003 Author Share Posted November 10, 2003 Okay...here is the latest news and most sadly anticipated update on this debacle. I asked Rob (Monkey Nugget) to call Tanmen again. It was Rob who basically single handidly got us the first shipment in, and Tanmen stopped returning my emails. I would have called him myself, but I don't speak Japanese, and he doesn't speak english. Rob, who has nothing in the order and got no $ from us, offered his services to help us contact Tanmen. Well....now months later with no word I asked Rob to contact him again. Rob (and his partner) found they could not get an answer from Tanmen calling from the toy store, so (afraid Tanmen was screening their calls) Rob enlisted another friend to call from a new location and check on the order. Here is the email sent to me by Rob in regards to that call: Hey Jesse, Finally got ahold of TANMEN. It took 3 tries today but I finally got my boss to get in touch with him. Here's how it went. 1st Call: Nobody by that name lives here. (Fake name on the invoice sheet he gave you, possibly fake address - but it is verified he is in Yokohama) 2nd Call: Verified telephone Number. Got ahold of him and he said he didn't know who Jesse Myers was and had no business dealings with him. 3rd Call: (I printed out the mail you sent me today). She read him the info in which he remembered suddenly. 1. When asked why he had not E-Mailed you he replied his computer is broken. (I plan to test this today by sending him an E-Mail). 2. When asked if he had sent out the kits he said "No". 3. When asked when he was going to send them out he replied - (Japanese word for unknown) I don't know. They are not finished. 4. When asked when they would be finished he replied - Unknown 5. When asked again about delivery he replied - Maybe next February, I'm not sure. I know this is not great news but it seems as though he has no intention of sending the other kits. My boss got the same feeling as Syoji before and he is lying. I would consider calling him yourself, I know it's Japan and you don't speak Japanese but I could probably translate into english words what you would want to asay to him. I could call him again and have someone relay the info to him. But it doesn't seem to be effective. He's not afraid of not completeing this deal. (IMO) Not anymore. I know this sounds bad but he was avoiding Syoji's calls. I had to use a different phone to get in touch with him. Ask for a refund or threaten him with legal action or even reporting him to Big West. If I can help anymore just let me know. Talk with everyone at MW and get the concensus of what they would like to do. If you need me to reply to him I will. Robby/Monkey-Nugget Well...honestly, at this point I can't say Im shocked. This whole thing stinks. February will mark the anniversery of when the first delivery was supposed to come. I have gotten to the point that I dont expect them to come in Feb. I dont know if I expect them to ever come. Shawn shared a nice little story with me about some amazing acts of generosity Tanmen did for him and America, (donations around 9/11) I believe in my heart that he is a good person, and I hope at some point he will come through with his commitment, but obviously something has gone horribly wrong. Perhaps he is overcommitted, perhaps he has had family or life issues, but considering the lack of communication I can know longer excuse this. So, we have some options. I want to leave it to the people on the order to make the choice, though all opinions are welcome. This is new territory for me, and I don't claim to know how to deal with it. Here are the options that occurred to me: 1) Wait. If you want the kits we don't have much choice here. Threats or visits would seem to not spur him on to finish the originals and molds. We risk seeing nothing, but patience may pay off. We could send a letter via mail to him in Japanese with a postage paid envelope enclosed asking for an update. ...we could do that every 3-6 months and hope to keep the lines open. 2) Threaten legal action. Im not sure what is available in terms of a small claims court in Japan, but I have the copies of the check, all the emails sent from Tanmen, and his invoice to me. (I saved EVERYTHING) We could send a much more formal email requesting a formal time table for action or we sue. To actually sue (if he calls this bluff) well, we would need help from inside Japan. Perhaps friends, or family could pitch in (if people have any there) or we could take up a collection to pay for small costs. I'm not sure how successful we could be, but we could try. 3) We could do the above but just ask for our money back instead of the pieces. This may be just as hard, but perhaps simpler to complete the transaction then trying to get the models. 4) We could also ask for other models instead. (equivilent or greater value? ) My thinking is, he has the molds for the pieces we got. I don't think he has them for the pieces we are waiting on. Assuming he has some stock, or can complete those, he might more easily part with $1000 worth of other kits. We could either give these to the waiting buyers as compensation, or try to sell some or all of them on Ebay and MW to other buyers to make all or most of the lost money back. Obviousley, this would be least idea, but would seem to be most feesible. Please...any ideas, suggestions, requests...anything...Im stumped. Wish I had a reason to go visit Yokohama and have a talk with this guy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Tristen Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 It might not really be my place to say, but.... I think we should be more patient. Making models is a time-consuming activity. It is a paint-saking craft. Just making one and making it right is difficult. I say wait.... don't bug him or threaten him. That's just not right. Trust, patience and be respectful. We are talking about the guy who made the most perfect VF-1 one kit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kam63 Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) It might not really be my place to say, but....I think we should be more patient. Making models is a time-consuming activity. It is a paint-saking craft. Just making one and making it right is difficult. I say wait.... don't bug him or threaten him. That's just not right. Trust, patience and be respectful. We are talking about the guy who made the most perfect VF-1 one kit.... It think these guys are waiting almost 2yrs!!!!!!! thats way enough time Jessee, That some real depressing news Edited November 10, 2003 by kam63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechwarrior Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 The best course of action, would be to recast all the models he sent so far (Cat's Eye) and sell em cheap on ebay. That would not be benificial for everyone, but It would sure make me feel better since I missed out on that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 The best course of action, would be to recast all the models he sent so far (Cat's Eye) and sell em cheap on ebay. That would not be benificial for everyone, but It would sure make me feel better since I missed out on that deal. I hate to play devils advocate but I have yet to recieve one of my models ( SD VF-11) and really have givin up on Tanman. And in response I woulld be willing to donate the ones I do have for the cause. Say hateful things to me if you disagree but after a total sum of 1000.00 dollers stolen from bunk members that had no intention of making good with thier end( I do not fully think Tanman is in that boat) I have very little faith in many sale transactions with anyone other then the OGs of MW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Oh god... I had no idea the Tanmen situation was THIS bad! If I'm not mistaken, the models that were not shipped in the first wave were all kits he wasn't completely done building the masters of. He said they'd be finished shortly, but this obviously has not been the case. If you've been to his web page at all recently, you'll see that he's been working on tons of other projects, most of which are unrelated to Macross. Which would be fine... if he hadn't taken $1000+ worth of orders for models he hasn't finished and isn't even working on. This is why I've never taken pre-orders (especially pre-paid ones) for any of my projects. If there were delays, and I wasn't able to finish them in a reasonable amount of time... I wouldn't be able to live with myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) I guess what I'm upset most about is just being ripped off, it's not the hundred bucks or not having another rare 1/72 model to add to my collection. Makes me mad when people don't keep their commitments. He has obviously made a conscious decision to not keep his word and complete the transaction and steal good peoples money. The whole not answering the phone and pretending to forget who Jessee is, I hate that crap. Just a little venting cuz some of the people he's ripped off I consider my friends. Nanashi if you don't have an outstanding order then butt out, this isn't your business. Edited November 10, 2003 by Grayson72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robokochan Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Just to let everyone know. I will help out in any way necessary. Whether it is to continue to try and get ahold of him or relay messages in Japanese so he will understand. Let Jesse know what you want to do and he can relay it to me. I truly hope that he will stick to his word and finish the projects. But I also want to give alittle insight on Japanese Resin sculptors. They are eccentic. They can finish a complex project in a day or take years. They also work for the highest bidder even if they have commited to other projects. The guy that makes my molds does the exact same thing. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 I say we should try to get our money back. Then if that doesn't work we need to tell Big West. I am afraid that there will be little recourse for a small claims case. It would cost more to file than what we want back. It's too bad Jesse has to deal with this. You deserve a party or something. And Rob/Monkey Nugget too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 (edited) Interesting, if you poke around on his site it looks like he's still going strong creating new models. He even shows an SD Strike in primer gray. He's also got a bunch of 1/72 projects that are in the works VF-3000, VF-9 he's still listing the VF-4. No mention of the Dragon II but I can't read Katakana either. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Spade/...e/jp/eitem.html I don't buy his pc is broke either his files are very recent. Edited November 10, 2003 by Grayson72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less than Super Ostrich Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I hate to say it, but even if the guy delivers on the other orders, I won't buy from him. I'd rather pay double once he makes his, so I know I'll get it. Of course, I'm sure there is a cultural reason why he is behaving so badly (in a business sense). I know my Far Eastern counterparts in business definitely do things MUCH differently than I would. This is mainly due to the cultural difference between Japan and U.S. business practices... or so I am told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Tristen Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I guess what I'm upset most about is just being ripped off, it's not the hundred bucks or not having another rare 1/72 model to add to my collection. Makes me mad when people don't keep their commitments. He has obviously made a conscious decision to not keep his word and complete the transaction and steal good peoples money. The whole not answering the phone and pretending to forget who Jessee is, I hate that crap.Just a little venting cuz some of the people he's ripped off I consider my friends. Nanashi if you don't have an outstanding order then butt out, this isn't your business. Okay.... sorry. I guess I won't be able to get that Cat's Eye or Dragon II : ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Interesting, if you poke around on his site it looks like he's still going strong creating new models. He even shows an SD Strike in primer gray. He's also got a bunch of 1/72 projects that are in the works VF-3000, VF-9 he's still listing the VF-4. No mention of the Dragon II but I can't read Katakana either.http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Spade/...e/jp/eitem.html I don't buy his pc is broke either his files are very recent. I noticed the same and also other model sites are back on the "preorder" for some of his models to be restocked. http://www.e2046.com/article/product_whatsnew/6/3 It takes awhile to load these pages but you'll get the gist. I'm just tired of being insulted by people who have the audacity to think that we are ^%$#@!$%& chumps! GIVE us our cash back or I for one vote very positively for the recasting of these models for sale to fellow members that missed out.PERIOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Problem is they would be very complicated to recast. The CatsEye mold pis stunning....fan racer and liner are also fairly advanced. Considering the number of pieces we would have to sell a lot of both even to considerbreaking even for the recaster...this is before selling enough to make $1000 to repay the members who have lost out....I just don't see recasting as the way to solve the problem. Im wondering if in the letter we include a "threat". I don't know how hard it would be to sue him, but we could threaten to spread the word of this incident everywhere...modeling stores and sites throughout all the countries that MW members exist and are willing to share. We notify Big West, HobbyFan, E2046..and everyone we can. I don't know if he would care, which is why I mention "we could". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Yeah, I'm certainly not a casting expert in any sense of the word but I've looked my cat's eye up and down and can't figure out how the heck he molded the thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrie Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 If I'm not mistaken, pretty much all of his kits except the Cat's Eye have been recasted by either Hobbyfan or E2046. And the Cat's Eye seems to be the one everyone wants most anyway... But it's a very big kit with some rather complex molds. The only thing more complex I've seen is the 1/72 Mave Yukikaze. If I were to recast it (a big 'if'), I'd need to get the whole three-part-mold technique down (I know the concept, but I've never done it), and I'd have to get a bigger pressure chamber to accomodate those big-ass molds. Otherwise, there'd be a lot of air bubbles in the casts. Plus I'd need to figure out how to cast in metal, and make a rather large investment in mold material and resin. It would be neither a cheap nor easy project to take on. So I really don't see it as a viable means of recouping the lost money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I first want to thank MJ and Rob and the others that have done their best to help and we all appreciate it very much! MJ are the items in Italics the items yet to be sent by Tanmen? As to Tanmen, I would be in favor of collaborating to compose another email to Tanmen. In the email I think we should be courteous and ask him to reply soon. I think this is the better approach for now. If he cant do the right thing after this then all bets are off, in my book! We go on a smear campaign! I dont want to have to do such a thing but I dont want others to get taken like we have! We may also consider adding Tanmen to the Blackball seller list. Sad its come to this I really wanted those other models. [FIRST DRAFT] Dear Tanmen, We feel we have been very patient with you and we have asked for nothing more than to be kept up to date on the orders status. We have had to go to great lengths to get any type of response from you as to the status of the order for over (?6 months?)! You agreed to take the order and we expect you to complete the order. If you will be able to complete the order, just give us updates about the order in a timely manner or upon request. If you cannot complete the order, that is understandable, and we will expect you to refund the balance of the money from the order to Myers Jesse. Again correspondence with us is key and despite language differneces it's still easy to do the right thing. We would like to receive the balance of our order in a timely manner if this is not possible then please refund our money. Thank you, Macross World members. Feel free to contribute or edit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robokochan Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Okay everyone, I am updating here directly instead of e-mailing Jesse and making people wait. I hope it is okay . Just got off the phone with TANMEN. I wanted to double check the information he said yesterday and I had my partner call him again. It is November 11, 2003 at about 3:45 PM. (Takes time to translate ) Here is what he said. (And he was more receptive this time.) Frist off an apology again. Take it as you will, it is an apology. 1. He has offered an REFUND of 140,000 - 150,000 Yen ($1272.73 - $1363.64 approx - 110 yen = $1.00)for the uncompleted kits. He can do this by December 10th or the 20th (This time frame). He will send it to Jesse M. The reason he couldn't complete the kits is because he was late in submitting the kits to Big West and couldn't get approval to make them. Again take this as you will because I believe the other kits were not licenced either. Whoever got the frist shipment can verify if they have a BW Sticker. There is another option. He will have the kits completed by Feb. And he said that he will post up-dates on his website to this effect. (Take it as you will he said he had a broken computer yesterday, he might be using a friends computer) He is still willing to sell the kits to those who placed the order with him. You can re-order when the kits are finished or let him keep the money you have already paid. (At least that is the way I understood it.) Again I can relay messages to him in Japanese. Please think about it and let JESSE know your final decision. I will only respond to him with Jesse's messages to avoid confusion. I hope this helps out. Rob MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 I'll take the refund, no more waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobywan Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Me too. I can scratch build a Dragon II myself if I releally want one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Seems like the most sensible option would be to ask for the money back and wait to see when the models are done. When they are an order can be placed for them at that time (for people who want one) I, honestly, dont think I have the fortitude to organize an order again with this guy...Ive called out way to many favors on this deal as it is! Im going to PM all the parties left with models on order so we can get their feedback. THANKS ROB! Monkey Nuggett to the rescue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 That makes three of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted November 11, 2003 Author Share Posted November 11, 2003 Does anyone know the screen names for VF2SS and Junmei? Their old names dont work in PM. Im sure I have their email at home, but Id like to PM them if I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALKYRIE-EXCHANGE.COM Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 First off---Jesse, thank you for all your hard in getting what we were able to get. It's really too bad things didn't work out..... I'm looking to get a refund...Like everyone, I don't think anyone has the patience to go through another waiting game. -K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatslappy Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 Thanks Monkey Nugget and Myers Jesse for all you have done on our behalf. I know this must really suck. I guess I"m in the lone boat of being willing to wait. I've got patience up the wazoo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocco_77 Posted November 11, 2003 Share Posted November 11, 2003 (edited) I'm going to have to be in the refund group too... I just want to say this though... I think that we have been more than courteous and respectful to Tanmen. I think that we have walked on egg shells around him. I am all about showing someone respect, but I am not about holding on to that respect when treated this way... I don't care about cultural differences and all that... My opinion is that business is business, and if you don't have good business practice then you loose my respect and my patronage... I know that he is a superb caster, so MAYBE someday I will order an in-stock item from him, but I will definitely not be giving him any business for some time if ever again. As far as recasting is concerned: (and I think it is in good taste to talk about recasting now) I say if anyone of our fellow recasters here has the gumption to attempt the Cats Eye, I'm sure they would be able to make some money on it.... I for one would be a buyer, and I think there are plenty of members that missed out on the first order that would really like one. Well that's my 2 cents for what it's worth.... I want to give a HUGE THANKS to Jesse, Monkey Nugget, and anyone else involved in this order that did their best to help see this thing through to the end... It was a large responsibility, and I really want you guys to know how much your efforts are appreciated... THANK YOU SO MUCH! rocco_77 Edited November 11, 2003 by rocco_77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiff Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I guess I"m in the lone boat of being willing to wait. I've got patience up the wazoo. I dont really mind waiting either. But if all bail then I guess there is no point in hanging on. But I would like the rest of my order completed even if it takes till Feb. I will just wait and see what the consensus is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 (edited) Thanks Monkey Nugget and Myers Jesse for all you have done on our behalf. I know this must really suck. I guess I"m in the lone boat of being willing to wait. I've got patience up the wazoo. Patience is one thing but if you aren't ever gonna get the thing that's not patience that's being a sucker. Wanna buy some cheap acreage in Florida? I'll be amazed if we ever see any money from this guy either. Edited November 12, 2003 by Grayson72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatslappy Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Thanks Monkey Nugget and Myers Jesse for all you have done on our behalf. I know this must really suck. I guess I"m in the lone boat of being willing to wait. I've got patience up the wazoo. Patience is one thing but if you aren't ever gonna get the thing that's not patience that's being a sucker. Wanna buy some cheap acreage in Florida? I'll be amazed if we ever see any money from this guy either. Well, I always just figured we'd keep hounding him and eventually, we'd get the rest of our stuff. I guess cuz all I had left was the SD strike, I wasn't all that concerned. But I'd really like to get a Dragon. I still held hope that things end ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I know what you mean, I really really wanted that Dragon model. Maybe they'll showup on his site or on Hobbyfan and then I'll get one later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted November 12, 2003 Author Share Posted November 12, 2003 I would like a Dragon and a VF4...and the SD VF11 and the SD Strike...man...I love the models...wish the business end was as smooth....Im thinking of trying to convince Monkey or someone to buy some for me if they ever get done...I need someone who can go to the shop with $ in hand and walk away with a kit! As for waiting...all votes are in....Phatslappy says wait, SPiff says wait...kinda...everyone else says refund....so...always trying to satisify everyone...here is my thought...(though this might just complicate things) Do we see if we can communicate this to Tanmen? Give him Phatslappy and Spiff's address and ask him to complete the deal for them in a timely fashion...and refund the rest of the money (minus their inverstment? Might just confuse things, but it doesnt seem like a ridiculous request. Thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 (edited) Man I wouldn't make things anymore complicated, just get the refund and then have those who want the models to contact Tanmen themselves, that's what I'm planning on doing. It's just too much room for error. What if somehow in the translation you wind up with say half the money, how are you gonna decide to how to divy it up. Do you want to put yourself in that position? Edited November 12, 2003 by Grayson72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatslappy Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 As much as I hate to admit it, I have to agree with Grayson on this one. HAHA. just jokers man! But seriously, whatever the group decides, the group does. It's not worth it. Hey Jessie, when Monkey Nugget goes over there, you think he could grab me a Dragon too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myersjessee Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 Shh...I have not even convinced him to go...maybe when the models are done we can make an order big enough to warrant the 5 hour train ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayson72 Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 5 hours! oh man, yeah we'd have to coordinate it. Does Tanmen even have an actual shop you can go to and buy stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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