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Big West trademarks Macross in the UK

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Macross Delta on Cartoon Network? Why not? :D

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1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

IIRC, most BDs are region-free. I don't know how/if that applies to anime distro companies, though. Let's hope that's the case.

My collection seems to be pretty mixed in that regard... though it seems to vary by distributor.

I'm not sure if it's still an issue, but for a while there the Japanese studios were vocally concerned about the possibility of losing profits from home video sales to fans importing the less expensive western home video releases of their shows.

 

38 minutes ago, Bolt said:

And is HG part of the reason Macross hasn’t (yet) gone full saturation bombing lame anime , sell,sell,sell models.. 

[...]

Are we gonna regret our big ape finally getting off skull island..?

Gundam's focus was always selling model kits... Macross's is on selling music.

Macross Delta is, if anything, proof that Macross has ALREADY succumbed to the "saturation bombing" effect of focusing on the profit center at the expense of the story.

 

5 minutes ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

I don't see Macross turning into another Gundam yet, since its still primarily under the stewardship of Kawamori.

Kawamori has, IIRC, expressed some frustration already that he's tied to a formula for Macross titles that includes a love triangle, music, and space war.

It's just not as bad as Gundam, which has evolved its Universal Century to the point that new shows are basically written mad lib-style.

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12 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Gundam's focus was always selling model kits... Macross's is on selling music.

Macross Delta is, if anything, proof that Macross has ALREADY succumbed to the "saturation bombing" effect of focusing on the profit center at the expense of the story.

Good point. The idol dollar is already in place in Japan. Out west though..it might be selling more models..I don’t see Walkure taking the world by storm. But who knows , maybe all these millennials will gobble it up :lol:

 

12 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Kawamori has, IIRC, expressed some frustration already that he's tied to a formula for Macross titles that includes a love triangle, music, and space war.

I’ve read this as well. Which has left me with the impression, Kawamori San isn’t really pulling the strings so much as being told where and how to focus his ideas..

I’m not sure ( but I really don’t know) Kawamori San is writing his own checks..

So then he gets approached by Chinese money and does Pandora..

 

Edited by Bolt

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14 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

It's just not as bad as Gundam, which has evolved its Universal Century to the point that new shows are basically written mad lib-style.

This is what I fear..

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59 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Good point. The idol dollar is already in place in Japan. Out west though..it might be selling more models..I don’t see Walkure taking the world by storm. But who knows , maybe all these millennials will gobble it up :lol:

Yeah, if Macross were to take off bigtime in the west I'd expect to see music mildly deemphasized towards a more balanced story like Macross Frontier.  

Gundam's plastic model kits cross barriers of language and culture a lot more easily than Macross's J-Pop albums, but music is so essential to the Macross experience and core themes that they can't deemphasize it very much without hurting the setting and story.

 

59 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I’ve read this as well. Which has left me with the impression, Kawamori San isn’t really pulling the strings so much as being told where and how to focus his ideas..

Frankly, I'd be shocked if Kawamori didn't have a raft of studio executives, production committee members, and assorted hangers-on auditing his concepts and proposals to make sure what he's coming up with is actually marketable.  It's very rare for a creator to actually be given a completely free hand to do whatever they please, and on the rare occasions that they do get complete control it almost never ends well.  

 

Spoiler

For instance, Star Trek would've been a disaster if Gene Roddenberry hadn't had a small army of producers, co-producers, consultants, and writers led by Gene Coon, Bob Justman, D.C. Fontana, and Matt Jeffries willing to stand up to him, tell him when his ideas weren't workable, and forcibly bridge the gap between Roddenberry's ideals and reality.  They all too often don't get the credit they deserve because Roddenberry was disinclined to credit them for their contributions.  When Gene finally did get a largely free hand to do as he pleased, it led to the notoriously awful first season of Star Trek: the Next Generation because Gene refused to let the writers have any conflict between the regular cast.  The network couldn't wrestle control away from Roddenberry fast enough thereafter.

Likewise, Star Wars's early incarnations were so terrible Harrison Ford notably told him"George, you can type this crap but you sure can't say it!  Move your mouth when you're typing."  It became the classic it is because the studio and producers kept Lucas on a VERY short leash and the film's budgetary constraints forced them to get creative with a good deal of the practical and special effects.  When Lucas was given carte blanche to do a new trilogy however he pleased, we ended up with the prequels... and the idea he had for a sequel trilogy (basically a three part Star Wars version of Fantastic Voyage) was even worse than what we got from Disney.

Gundam had some issues with Yoshiyuki Tomino along similar lines, most recently with Reconguista in G.

 

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50 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Frankly, I'd be shocked if Kawamori didn't have a raft of studio executives, production committee members, and assorted hangers-on auditing his concepts and proposals to make sure what he's coming up with is actually marketable.  It's very rare for a creator to actually be given a completely free hand to do whatever they please, and on the rare occasions that they do get complete control it almost never ends well.   

I wonder how "hands on" Kawamori actually is in regards to the episode-by-episode workings of a TV anime.

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm not sure if it's still an issue, but for a while there the Japanese studios were vocally concerned about the possibility of losing profits from home video sales to fans importing the less expensive western home video releases of their shows.

So, this has always been a little confusing to me.  Why exactly are the Japanese video releases so much more expensive than the exported versions?

Is it related to the initial domestic sales being used as an immediate way to deliver profit to their investors?  I can see that being a big thing, and that would basically mean the series has to turn a profit in domestic sales, before an international release is even considered.  Once to that point, the export releases would probably be priced just to cover the cost of translation, marketing and distribution.

I'm not sure how exactly that threatens the profits of the domestic release though, unless the international ones happen very quickly afterward, or if they announce that it will happen before the Japanese version is on shelves.  

I can understand why they would be hesitant to try to account for international sales in their business model though.  Expecting foreign fans to have enough interest in a series to help fund it is a huge gamble.

Edited by Chronocidal

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1 hour ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

I wonder how "hands on" Kawamori actually is in regards to the episode-by-episode workings of a TV anime.

@Seto Kaiba  I believe is correct on that point, concerning the mob that oversees Kawamori San’s Lead.

As far as how “hands on”. I believe Kawamori San is very hands on, once he’s given approval and stays within the holy trinity . I  know he’s stuck to his guns on certain writing aspects and ideas,such as the repressed memory concept Guld was suffering from in M+.  And even the design of Sharon apple, as it didn’t seem too appealing to the rest of the production crew..I’m sure , as he’s said, Kawamori has many more ideas for Macross. Let’s see how much they are affected by these changing times..

Edited by Bolt

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37 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

So, this has always been a little confusing to me.  Why exactly are the Japanese video releases so much more expensive than the exported versions?

Mostly, it's the small expected sales volumes and narrow profit margins.

As I understand it, physical media is a bit of a specialty market in Japan.  The average home in Japan is fairly small by western standards, and with space at a bit of a premium it can be inconvenient or just plain impractical to build a large home video library.  This has kept the video rental industry alive and well in Japan and in so doing kept the expected sales of any given home video release on the low side.  Prices are set higher, in part, to compensate for the lower expected total sales.  That fans were still willing to buy physical media those high prices meant there really wasn't an incentive to try lowering them. 

It certainly doesn't help that anime is made on such razor-thin margins that home video sales and merchandise are downright essential to a show's commercial success or failure.  The studios stay afloat on the profits from the few hits they put out year to year, with most of what they produce barely breaking even or resulting in a short-term loss that may or may not be recouped by a slow trickle of profit from years of merchandise, streaming licensing, international licensing, and back catalog home video sales.  With such a narrow margin between turning a profit or writing off a loss, the higher price means fewer units need to be sold to break even.

 

37 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I'm not sure how exactly that threatens the profits of the domestic release though, unless the international ones happen very quickly afterward, or if they announce that it will happen before the Japanese version is on shelves.  

They do announce them fairly quickly these days, but even if they don't the massive disparity in price could easily entice a savvy Japanese fan to purchase a Blu-ray from America for a fraction of what the Japanese domestic market release would cost.

Consider, if you will... the average Japanese Blu-ray disc costs about $64 (US) and typically has three TV series episodes on it.  That's $21.25 an episode.  Macross Delta was a bit more expensive at $71.91 a volume for nine volumes/26 episodes plus various cuts of episode one, and cost over $647 when all was said and done.  Getting a 26 episode anime series on Blu-ray in the US?  $52.50 including the average sales tax.  That's $2.02 an episode... a savings of 91.88%.  In terms of spending power, importing the American Blu-ray would save a Japanese fan enough money for: 140 gallons of gasoline, two inexpensive Windows 10 laptops, a reasonably high-end smartphone, 185 cans of Coke, 21 dinners out, or approximately a month's rent in a typical 2K or 2DK apartment.

Savings-wise, that's nothing to sneeze at... especially with Blu-ray prices creeping up towards $72/volume and some of the more popular shows having more than 26 episodes.  Even the limited low-priced edition Macross 7 Blu-rays cost over $500 for the complete series, at about $9.93 an episode. 

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I was told at a convention in Paris, that European distributors, even UK ones, have more freedom with their pricing and subtitling, since European BD's are on a different code to Japan's unlike the US. That is why series like Madoka and the Monogatari series are almost twice as expensive with the american Aniplex releases than their UK counterparts. Yes, they have more extras and booklets and the like, but hardly to justify the difference in price

There's some other tidbits in US releases like not being able to remove the English subtitles when listening to the original japanese audio. I suppose that's also to remove the possibility of reverse export.

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As @HannouHeiki so kindly posted in another thread (and I quote him below), Harmony Gold has lost it's opposition against the Big West's trademark of the word Macross in the European Union. With this, there's little HG can do to block BW doing business in Europe. Expect the latin speaking markets in Europe to sooner rather than later have some Macross releases .

Good day for everyone!

 

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https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#details/trademarks/016790421

 

OPPOSITION B 2 959 008
Harmony Gold U.S.A., Inc., 7655 Sunset Boulevard, 90046, Los Angeles, United States (opponent), represented by Barzanò & Zanardo Roma S.p.a., Via Piemonte, 26, 00187, Rome, Italy (professional representative)
versus
Kabushiki Kaisha Bigwest (also trading as Bigwest Co. Ltd.), 19-8 Nishihara 3-chome, Shibuya-ku, 151-0066 Tokyo, Japan (applicant), represented by Studio Torta Spa, Via Viotti 9, 10121 Turin, Italy (professional representative).
On 11/05/2019, the Opposition Division issues the following
DECISION:
1. The opposition n. B 2 959 008 is totally rejected.
2. The opponent shall bear the cost of the expenses, set at EUR 300.

 

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We're all watching ,as this develops, with great interest..

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insert "Heavy cat breathing intensifies gif"

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8 hours ago, Marzan said:

As @HannouHeiki so kindly posted in another thread (and I quote him below), Harmony Gold has lost it's opposition against the Big West's trademark of the word Macross in the European Union. With this, there's little HG can do to block BW doing business in Europe. Expect the latin speaking markets in Europe to sooner rather than later have some Macross releases .

Good day for everyone!

Oh yes, that was a fine bit of news from last Tuesday. :) 

Harmony Gold still has the right to appeal the decision, but whether they do or not it's profoundly unlikely they'll win on appeal.  Between Big West's victories in the UK, the EU, and in China, things are looking up for Macross... and very very down for Robotech.

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I wonder if BigWest will stop the fight once the EU rights are secured or if they try to take the fight over America... Maybe Canada first? Or Latin America? Brazil and Mexico are (I think) the biggest anime consumers of the region)

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14 minutes ago, Gerli said:

I wonder if BigWest will stop the fight once the EU rights are secured or if they try to take the fight over America... Maybe Canada first? Or Latin America? Brazil and Mexico are (I think) the biggest anime consumers of the region)

Trademark laws in the United States are written differently, giving preference to the first user of a mark rather than the actual owner of the property... so Harmony Gold would very likely win any trademark litigation in the US.  I'd have to check to see how Canada and the major South American nations have theirs written, though if they were headed anywhere I'd expect them to do South America or Australia next.

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8 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Trademark laws in the United States are written differently, giving preference to the first user of a mark rather than the actual owner of the property

Question on the first use.

So has there been a case where a trademark was used in another country prior to it's use in the US? Or we looking at new territory here?

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1 minute ago, Focslain said:

Question on the first use.

So has there been a case where a trademark was used in another country prior to it's use in the US? Or we looking at new territory here?

Oh, plenty... but while the US will at least nominally protect trademarks registered outside the US under treaty, the US Patent and Trademark Office gives priority to the first user of a given mark in the US when considering US trademark ownership and registration.

Harmony Gold were the first ones to use the Macross trademark in the US, so as long as they keep using it they get priority in any consideration of who should own the US trademarks even though they are not the legal owners of Macross.

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3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Harmony Gold were the first ones to use the Macross trademark in the US, so as long as they keep using it they get priority in any consideration of who should own the US trademarks even though they are not the legal owners of Macross.

So they are close to how patent trolls work. Ouch. 

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7 minutes ago, Focslain said:

So they are close to how patent trolls work. Ouch. 

Not really.  Patent trolling exploits problems with patent law that permit patents to be approved for a concept that may or may not have actually been applied in practical use, with or without details on how to actually apply the idea in practice.  Companies and individuals who engage in patent trolling usually aren't actually using the concepts and technologies the patents were written for, and the patent applications are written as broadly and generically as possible so that the patent trolls can threaten litigation against any company or person who comes up with something loosely related to the core concept of the patent.  (A recent example would be the litigation over smartphone based electronic check cashing tech, the patent used to sue several banks for infringement was written such that it only described using a phone to deposit a check by taking a picture of it with absolutely no specifics of how that would work.)  This kind of thing is also fairly easy to defeat in court if you have the time and resources to do it, which most patent trolls are counting on their victims not having.

Harmony Gold's use of trademarks is very different because a trademark has a very specific, very narrow scope.   You can't just trademark "Macross" and apply that to everything that uses those letters.  You have to separately trademark the word in English, in Japanese, the image of the logo containing the word in both languages, and apply specific categories in which you're using that mark like toys, video games, comic books, novels, etc.  You also have to be actually using the mark to register it too, and you have to keep using it in order to hold onto those registrations.  (That last bit is part of why Harmony Gold's Robotech merchandise is almost exclusively Macross-based... they have to keep making Macross stuff to be able to renew their trademarks.)  Because distinctiveness is also a requirement, you couldn't just trademark a generic word like "The".  What HG is doing is almost a polar opposite to patent trolling because of how trademarks work... but that doesn't quite make it trollish.  This is more like what McDonalds did in trying to sue the original McDonalds restaurant for using the McDonalds name despite not being affiliated with the chain.

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1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Not really.  Patent trolling exploits problems with patent law that permit patents to be approved for a concept that may or may not have actually been applied in practical use, with or without details on how to actually apply the idea in practice.  Companies and individuals who engage in patent trolling usually aren't actually using the concepts and technologies the patents were written for, and the patent applications are written as broadly and generically as possible so that the patent trolls can threaten litigation against any company or person who comes up with something loosely related to the core concept of the patent.  (A recent example would be the litigation over smartphone based electronic check cashing tech, the patent used to sue several banks for infringement was written such that it only described using a phone to deposit a check by taking a picture of it with absolutely no specifics of how that would work.)  This kind of thing is also fairly easy to defeat in court if you have the time and resources to do it, which most patent trolls are counting on their victims not having.

Harmony Gold's use of trademarks is very different because a trademark has a very specific, very narrow scope.   You can't just trademark "Macross" and apply that to everything that uses those letters.  You have to separately trademark the word in English, in Japanese, the image of the logo containing the word in both languages, and apply specific categories in which you're using that mark like toys, video games, comic books, novels, etc.  You also have to be actually using the mark to register it too, and you have to keep using it in order to hold onto those registrations.  (That last bit is part of why Harmony Gold's Robotech merchandise is almost exclusively Macross-based... they have to keep making Macross stuff to be able to renew their trademarks.)  Because distinctiveness is also a requirement, you couldn't just trademark a generic word like "The".  What HG is doing is almost a polar opposite to patent trolling because of how trademarks work... but that doesn't quite make it trollish.  This is more like what McDonalds did in trying to sue the original McDonalds restaurant for using the McDonalds name despite not being affiliated with the chain.

So a lot of this could have been avoided if one of the Japanese companies who originally made Macross had patented the name, etc... in the US THEN licensed it out?

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1 minute ago, Mommar said:

So a lot of this could have been avoided if one of the Japanese companies who originally made Macross had patented the name, etc... in the US THEN licensed it out?

That's not quite how it works, I'm afraid. 

(Also, "patent" is the wrong word here... patents protect inventions, copyrights protect creative works, and trademarks protect the identities of brands, products, and services.)

You can file what's called an Intent To Use (ITU) application for registration of a mark that you plan to start using at a later date, but the actual registration will not be granted until after the mark has entered commercial use.  ITU applications are placeholders that only really serve to establish that you were the first to ask for protection of that mark in the event that the mark's registration is disputed.  Trademarks and Servicemarks are quite literally on a "use it or lose it" basis.  Harmony Gold were first to market with a Macross title (Super Dimension Fortress Macross, as Robotech, in 1985), so Big West would've been up a creek without a paddle if they tried to register a trademark in, say, 1992 and Harmony Gold challenged it.

 

About the only ways those trademarks Harmony Gold holds on the Macross name, logo, key art, etc. in the US will be removed from play as obstructions to Macross licensing are if HG either loses the rights to Super Dimension Fortress Macross (and thus is no longer able to renew them) or opts to sell those trademarks to Big West.

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On 11/12/2019 at 7:31 PM, Gerli said:

I wonder if BigWest will stop the fight once the EU rights are secured or if they try to take the fight over America... Maybe Canada first? Or Latin America? Brazil and Mexico are (I think) the biggest anime consumers of the region)

It won't be Mexico. Due to NAFTA and the upcoming replacement of it, Mexico is an common free trade area with the US and Canada and the treaties include extensive protections to each others patents and trademarks.

That being said, the monopoly is crumbling and I hope we can soon get some of the first original Macross releases outside of Japan in ages. Let's see who dares do it first. Let's not forget that a an extra dimension to consider in licensing Macross is all the music. That can raise the expense of licensing exponentially.

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2 hours ago, Marzan said:

Let's not forget that a an extra dimension to consider in licensing Macross is all the music. That can raise the expense of licensing exponentially.

This might be the biggest hurtle, more so then HG. I did a quick check and Love Live! did get a US release, but AKB48 hasn't and those are the two series that have the music catalogs that would be closest to Macross. 

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22 minutes ago, Focslain said:

This might be the biggest hurtle, more so then HG. I did a quick check and Love Live! did get a US release, but AKB48 hasn't and those are the two series that have the music catalogs that would be closest to Macross. 

AKB0048 did get a US (and international) release, actually :-)

The music rights were no issue and that’s back when the group were at the peak of their popularity. 

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On 11/12/2019 at 10:47 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Trademark laws in the United States are written differently, giving preference to the first user of a mark rather than the actual owner of the property... so Harmony Gold would very likely win any trademark litigation in the US.  I'd have to check to see how Canada and the major South American nations have theirs written, though if they were headed anywhere I'd expect them to do South America or Australia next.

A bit late but Australia outright terminated Harmony Gold's claims on Macross and gave it to Big West.

 

Anyways, about NAFTA and its successor, how would it affect Big West's efforts to get into North America (omce they get the rest of the world) if they target either Canada or Mexico (the US will be dead last due to the way trademarks work there)?

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10 hours ago, Solid Hayate said:

A bit late but Australia outright terminated Harmony Gold's claims on Macross and gave it to Big West.

Good on them, it's about time they did something right.

 

10 hours ago, Solid Hayate said:

Anyways, about NAFTA and its successor, how would it affect Big West's efforts to get into North America (omce they get the rest of the world) if they target either Canada or Mexico (the US will be dead last due to the way trademarks work there)?

Really, what it's gonna come down to in the end is a waiting game.  Big West is not going to be able to overturn the trademarks HG owns in the United States, so the only thing for Big West to do is rigorously police its new Macross trademarks outside the US and clamp down on Harmony Gold's ability to profit from its license to Super Dimension Fortress Macross.

The merchandising rights that Harmony Gold holds as part of its license to Super Dimension Fortress Macross are all that's keeping the lights on in the part of their office that runs the Robotech franchise.  Even with it, they're barely turning a profit on the brand with increasingly-cheap, low-quality merchandise and the sales of their second attempt to reboot the series has started to falter thanks to slipping sales of the comics from Titan Publishing (part of which can be attributed to the fact that they've now moved on to the material from the perennially unpopular Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross).  The proposed Robotech live action movie is not a realistic prospect due to all the legal problems surrounding it, and Harmony Gold itself is unwilling to finance further attempts to develop the animated Robotech series, so all that needs to happen for the Robotech franchise to finally collapse and free up those trademarks in the United States is for pressure from Big West to finally push Robotech to the tipping point where it just isn't worth the effort for Harmony Gold to keep Robotech going.  

Canada or Mexico won't have a significant impact on the situation, the real last bastion of Robotech fandom (a large part of which is actually closeted Macross fandom) is South America.  If Big West can cut off South America, Robotech is over.

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1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The proposed Robotech live action movie is not a realistic prospect due to all the legal problems surrounding ...

And what are your sources? rumors ?

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

....., so all that needs to happen for the Robotech franchise to finally collapse and free up those trademarks in the United States is for pressure from Big West to finally push Robotech to the tipping point where it just isn't worth the effort for Harmony Gold to keep Robotech going.  

Canada or Mexico won't have a significant impact on the situation, the real last bastion of Robotech fandom (a large part of which is actually closeted Macross fandom) is South America.  If Big West can cut off South America, Robotech is over.

Robotech is over ? it's a fantasy of Macross Hardcore Fans... Do you really think that Robotech fans will love more Macross if HG lose the rights? Robotech is not only the heritage of the "saga macross", even if Big West recovers rights in some countries, there will always be Robotech AND Macross. These are two different way since a long time ... and we must not forget that HG will probably never lose the rights in the USA. 

However, be patient, with BW rights, Australia will have all Macross series in english langage soon :-).. 

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1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Canada or Mexico won't have a significant impact on the situation, the real last bastion of Robotech fandom (a large part of which is actually closeted Macross fandom) is South America.  If Big West can cut off South America, Robotech is over.

I was brining up those two countries because if Big West gets those two then Big West can commission an English dub in Canada for the English-language audiences and a Latino Spanish dub in Mexico for the LatAm audiences. Also if Big West chooses to tackle those two countries, how difficult would it be for them to overturn HG's claims on Macross because NAFTA.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 the real last bastion of Robotech fandom (a large part of which is actually closeted Macross fandom) is South America.  If Big West can cut off South America, Robotech is over.

Seems most of the Robotech revenue for HG comes from South America.

10 minutes ago, varitechs said:

And what are your sources? rumors ?

 

Robotech is over ? it's a fantasy of Macross Hardcore Fans... Do you really think that Robotech fans will love more Macross if HG lose the rights? Robotech is not only the heritage of the "saga macross", even if Big West recovers rights in some countries, there will always be Robotech AND Macross. These are two different way since a long time ... and we must not forget that HG will probably never lose the rights in the USA. 

However, be patient, with BW rights, Australia will have all Macross series in english langage soon :-).. 

Robotech is pretty much on life support, and Harmony Gold refuses to finance any more animated Robotech material (what most Robotech fans actually want) because they'd rather launder money, and any new Robotech material is increasingly low-quality. Perhaps the only way Robotech can rebound in any significant way is if Tatsunoko buys the Robotech IP from Harmony Gold's corpse. Otherwise, it will fall into obscurity (like it should have been long time ago)

And Madman can start releasing the other Macrosses right now in Australia, and either Anime Limited or Manga Entertainment in the UK.

Edited by Solid Hayate

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It's pretty founded that the RT movie is a pipe dream. I'm not saying it's impossible, just improbable :p

It's true RT will always be around. In someones attic:lol: 

All joking aside , RT HAS failed to produce enough new content to really be relevant. Except for the new toys being licensed based on really old designs. Even though many models and toys from the original Macross are also being produced, there continues to be a steady and continuous flow of new stories , mechs and characters. As well as Toys, models, pachinco :p,music, concerts  light novels, manga, etc.,etc. 

Even RT fans must admit HG has been flailing on all these fronts. For decades..

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1 hour ago, Solid Hayate said:

 

Seems most of the Robotech revenue for HG comes from South America.

 

They were airing Robotech on saturdays and sundays morning on Argentina TV until last month... but I didn't see any merchandising out there so the revenue must be only for the retransmisión rights...

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1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

With a lot more context, I think it’s pretty clear the wrong people got mad for nothing in 2019.

Yeah, with the benefit of hindsight 2019 has been a pretty good year for Macross.  Tatsunoko Production deciding to renew their licensing agreement with Harmony Gold turned out to be a strategic move to make their obligations from the arbitration with HG over royalties vanish, and Big West's wins in court to reclaim the Macross trademarks around the world have made HG's "victory" taste as bitter as defeat.

 

 

1 hour ago, varitechs said:

And what are your sources? rumors ?

Anyone with a working brain knew from the outset that a Robotech live action movie was a pipe dream.

Harmony Gold has tried to make a lot of noise about it over the last decade, but it inevitably means nothing.  No studio is going to gamble on Robotech, because they can't adapt the Big West-owned Macross material and trying to create replacements for it that are similar will just invite a copyright infringement lawsuit.  For seven years, HG told everyone who would listen that WB had huge plans for Robotech, that it was going to be a tentpole franchise for the studio, and that it was being fast-tracked to production.  7 years later, Warner Bros let the license expire without doing anything to develop the project.  After Sony picked it up, we got all of the same tired lines, and the same utter lack of any indication work was being done on it.

 

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Robotech is over ? it's a fantasy of Macross Hardcore Fans... Do you really think that Robotech fans will love more Macross if HG lose the rights?

Robotech is dying.

Let's be brutally honest here.  Robotech has been at death's door for a VERY long time, and in the last couple of years that slow and steady decline has accelerated with a string of comparatively high-profile failures like Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles, Robotech Academy, and Robotech RPG Tactics.  The quality of their licensees has slipped from major toy companies all the way down to the little indie operators and actual goddamn bootleggers.  It's hanging on by its fingertips AT BEST.

When we talk about the death of Robotech, we're not talking about every Robotech fan finally giving up on it and moving on to other properties... we're talking about the demise of Robotech as a commercial property.  The point where Robotech is no longer making enough of a profit for Harmony Gold to justify the expenditure of pretending it's a viable property.  

 

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Robotech is not only the heritage of the "saga macross",

Robotech fans often want to insist this is the case... but it's not actually true.

99% of Robotech do not give a damn about any part of Robotech other than the "Macross Saga".  Every attempt to continue the TV series story has been based on the "Macross Saga" except for Robotech 3000, which tested so poorly it was cancelled after a test trailer was screened ONCE.  The one story Robotech fans consistently want to see completed is Sentinels, the continuing story of the Macross Saga cast.  Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles sold itself principally on "find out what happened to Rick Hunter".  All of the merchandise is Macross Saga merchandise.  When they try other merchandise, it generally doesn't sell.  They are STILL trying to offload MOSPEADA goods they stocked back in 2008, and won't even consider Southern Cross stuff because it's so hopelessly unpopular no licensee wants to touch it.

The Macross saga is literally the only part of Robotech that is commercially successful... and even that carries a big asterisk these days.

 

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These are two different way since a long time ... and we must not forget that HG will probably never lose the rights in the USA. 

You're forgetting this is a business... if it stops making enough money to justify renewing the license, Robotech stops being a thing.

Likewise, HG's rights are not perpetual rights.  The license agreement has a limited term, and the trademarks they hold expire over time and need to be continually renewed.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Solid Hayate said:

I was brining up those two countries because if Big West gets those two then Big West can commission an English dub in Canada for the English-language audiences and a Latino Spanish dub in Mexico for the LatAm audiences. Also if Big West chooses to tackle those two countries, how difficult would it be for them to overturn HG's claims on Macross because NAFTA.

They could do an English dub right now in the UK or Australia.

Canada and Mexico won't help, because the US trademark law still prioritizes first use over ownership.

 

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Seems most of the Robotech revenue for HG comes from South America.

Given how overwhelmingly prevalent video piracy is down there, I doubt it.  It's actually pretty rare to hear HG even mention South America.

If you listen to HG, they seem to be pinning the franchise's future on China... where all of Macross is coming out very soon.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They could do an English dub right now in the UK or Australia.

I see a UK dub more likely than an Australian dub.

36 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Canada and Mexico won't help, because the US trademark law still prioritizes first use over ownership.

I'm talking about Canadian and Mexican trademark laws.

And I take it Canada and Mexico are subject to US trademark laws.

 

30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If you listen to HG, they seem to be pinning the franchise's future on China... where all of Macross is coming out very soon.

And Big West will just blockade Harmony Gold there, choking them out of any opportunities of profitting from China.

 

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