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Hello.  I’m new here.  Please forgive me but my post turned into an essay.  A moderator here named Roy Focker suggested I repost this as one giant post.  It was previously seven different topics.  I want to thank all the Macross fans and this forum for allowing this post about the Frankenstein monster called Robotech.  I want to thank everyone for their sincere, mature, and intelligent replies to this post.  I am a fan of Robotech and I would like to hear your thoughts about Academic Gender Studies and/or Female Character Analysis in regards to Robotech. I would like to critique Robotech as a work of art similar to art criticism or media criticism of any novel or painting.  Furthermore, I would like to critique Robotech as a work of art through the lens of Gender Studies and Female Character Analysis.  I am curious about themes and symbolism in Robotech. Themes and symbols can creep into a work of art either consciously or subconsciously and thus can be intended or unintended.  I am interested in decoding these symbols and imagery.  I am interested in your ideas about Robotech and its interpretation as it relates to Jungian Archetypes and Freudian Analysis.  Does anyone have any links to other Forums or Topics on this subject? Does anyone recommend I discuss this on a different Forum?  Thank you in advance.

Robotech has been discussed for 33 years and I am interested in new perspectives and new angles of inquiry.  I am interested in exploring new territory within the Robotech universe.

This post deals with Robotech in all its canon and non-canon manifestations.  I am taking a very macro level view of Robotech.  I am examining broad overarching themes, patterns, re-occurring symbols, imagery, coincidences, motifs, tropes, plot devices, and narrative techniques.  I mean no harm or ill will.  Please enjoy the post.  I hope this read is a positive experience.  :)

In the future I hope to analyze Robotech through the disciplines of Formalism, Structuralism, Ecocriticism, Post-Modernism, Post-Colonialism, Moralism, Marxism, and Psychoanalysis.

I hope to answer the following questions with this post.  What are we responding to within Robotech?  What intrigues us about Robotech?  What resonates with us about Robotech?  Why do I like Robotech?

1.  The Tragic Incompatibility of Opposite Genders in Robotech

First, please consider the iconic imagery of a full size Zentreadi holding a Minmei doll.  Academic literary analysis, film critics, or anime scholars might speculate it demonstrates the male gender in awe of the female gender. Or perhaps it demonstrates how the male gender is frustrated by its inability to connect and communicate with the female gender. Another piece of supporting evidence presents itself when Minmei wins the war by singing and dancing. This is symbolic of the true power of the female gender (or weakness of the male gender). One female contains enough power to destroy an entire battle group of giant homicidal aliens. Personally, I was a 9 year old male in 1986 and perhaps this imagery spoke to me. If I saw myself as the Zentreadi holding the Minmei doll, it encapsulated my inability to approach a girl. I was fascinated with women but unsure of what to do with them.  This imagery may have resonated with me.

The iconic image of a Zentreadi clutching a Minmei doll bears some similarity to King Kong clutching Ann Darrow atop the Empire State Building.  King Kong is symbolic of race, racism, and colonialism.  I feel King Kong also symbolizes an extreme version of the male libido, lust, and desire for possession.  Music seems to soothe the savage beast.  In this vein, Minmei’s singing seems to intoxicate the Zentreadi, Musica’s harp placates all the clones, and Lancer’s singing inspires humanity. In addition, the Empire State Building and the SDF-1 share a similar rigid shape.  The SDF-1’s Main Gun builds up tension and shoots out a giant stream of laser fire in order to release this tension.  The initial crash landing of the SDF-1 on Planet Earth resembles a galactic fertilization event of two gametes combining in the womb of space.  When Khyron captures Minmei and puts her in a cage, his eventual demise warns male viewers against allowing their desires to run wild.  Dolza almost killed Lisa in another King Kong-esque scene.  King Kong and the Zentreadi are also tragic heroes.  In some moments they inspire sympathy in the viewer.  They are outcasts.  They do not fit in.  They are misunderstood.  The scene showing the rotting skeleton of a Zentreadi corpse in the wastelands holding a Minmei doll is tragic and encapsulates the flaws and miscommunication of the two genders.

On the theme of masculine desire for possession, the SDF-1, or mothership, can be seen as feminine.  The Masters are similar to a crime boss using their muscle, the Zentreadi, to retrieve a wayward concubine.  Likewise, the Regent chases the Regis.  If the SDF-1 is seen as female, Khyron’s obsession with her eventually leads him to murdering her.  This could be viewed as matricide if the protoculture matrix is seen as a womb which enabled the creation of Khyron or the Zentreadi themselves.

Further evidence to support incompatibility of the male and female gender occurs when Azonia and Khyron finally have physical contact and their union is explosive and fatal.  This is symbolic of the futility of relationships.  I would also argue the Regent and Regis’s estrangement throughout the series further supports a theme of incompatibility of opposite genders in Robotech.  Additionally, Admiral Donald Hayes loses his wife and later gets toasted, Lisa loses Karl, Claudia loses Roy and eventually expires herself, and Scott loses Marlene.  While these relationships can be viewed as successful, the shapings ultimately deems them incompatible.  Minmei’s toxic relationships with Kyle, T. R. Edwards, and Jonathon Wolfe can also further support the theme of male and female incompatibility presented here.

2.  The Effect of Love on Strong Female Characters in Robotech

Second, Robotech has strong female characters. Granted, from our contemporary point of view, they are manifested from 1980's Japanese culture and Carl Macek's 1980’s re-interpretation, but they are a breakthrough for female empowerment.  Some examples are Lisa Hayes becomes Admiral, Minmei is a tool of the military, Miriya is an ace fighter pilot, Dana Sterling is a commanding officer, and Rook Bartley is a kind of anti-hero and a fierce warrior.  On the other hand, The Regis is a typical wicked witch villainess character which is a bit misogynist and stereotypical.  The new Titan Comics (spoiler alert) are taking female empowerment to a whole new level.  The re-imagined Minmei is assertive, Lisa is obviously Captain, and Azonia and Miriya are amplified.

There are other patterns of female characters in Robotech.  One of these patterns is Dana and Annie are tomboys.  Miriya is a tomboy, but all Zentreadi females are tomboys.  Lisa, Marie Crystal, and Nova Satori are shrews.  Lisa’s tough exterior is eventually softened by Rick.  Rick accomplishes what the bridge bunnies and Claudia all seem to fail at (As an aside, who first coined the term “bridge bunnies?”).  Marie is almost softened by Sean Phillips.  Nova is a little softened by Zor Prime.  Rook is almost softened by Rand.  Scott Bernard is uptight and Ariel softens him to a point.  Minmei softens everyone… except Lisa.  Miriya is softened by Max and Dana.  This is all commentary on the transformative power of love.

Additionally, the Zentreadi, Zor Prime, Ariel, and Sera become deserters and embrace love over their own sterile and aseptic cultures.

On the topic of Love, Robotech also warns the viewer against toxic forms of love.  Upon exposure to the micronian emotion love, the Zentreadi begin to fight and manifest greed as their passions are enflamed.  The Regent and Regis are estranged due to her extramarital inter-species affair with Zor.  This inspires the Invid to oppress the Regis and avenge the crimes committed against them.  Scott seeks revenge for a lost love.  The Masters are drunk with power and seem loveless.  Minmei has abusive relationships with Kyle and T. R. Edwards.  Minmei has a small romance with the married Jonathon Wolf.  In the novels, Minmei eventually follows the typical rock star career arc of Britney Spears, Marilyn Monroe, and Whitney Houston.  Minmei and Kyle are an animated version of Ike and Tina Turner.  This is all commentary about the dangers inherent in love.

3.  Romance in Robotech

Third, some recurring patterns in relationships or romantic interests exist in Robotech.  The amorous couples all have a romantic tension and the female is often the same archetype.  The female is very confident and self-aware of her feminine powers.  The female is in the position to allow physical intimacy at a time and place of her choosing while the male waits patiently.  The couples I am alluding to are Rick and Minmei of The Macross Saga, Lisa and Rick of The Sentinels, Max and Miriya, Marie and Sean, Rook and Rand, Jack Baker and Karen Penn, and finally, Marcus Rush and Maia Sterling.  Some of these couples may have unrequited, unconsummated, or platonic love. Some caveats are Miriya is not aware of what love really is, but she does initially feel she can dominate Max in physical combat.  Minmei is initially completely unaware of her power over Rick and the viewer can only suppose she eventually realizes her allure.  Lisa of The Macross Saga is a bit insecure, but she does have rank over Rick.  Later, in The Sentinels, Lisa is transformed into the female archetype I am referencing in this paragraph.  Gnea, Bela, Musica, and Minmei are all completely unaware of the feminine power they exert over the men around them.

There is symbolism in Max and Miriya’s physical confrontation with knives.  This is a sword fight and Max subdues Miriya through the prowess of his weapon.  Miriya is disarmed of her pseudo weapon appendage and embraces her true female form.  This may be commentary on orientation.  Miriya leaves behind her all female Zentreadi society and embraces a new orientation.  Later, their conjugal relations produce Dana.  In the new Titan Comics Issue 10 (spoiler alert) the imagery of sword fighting is re-contextualized and exaggerated in a new setting and timeline.  Likewise, Musica has an instrument or tool and co-exists with her sisters in supposed harmony.  However, she abandons her instrument and joins Bowie.  This may also symbolize switching a character’s orientation.

On the subject of physical attraction, Robotech also alludes to the celibate ascetic.  Captain Gloval seems to be celibate.  Dr. Lang is also celibate and possibly slightly warped and misogynistic when he creates Janice Em.  Janice Em is a gynoid which is a female android.  Lisa, Claudia, and Scott all attempt to be celibate ascetics after losing loved ones.  Perhaps even Rook, Marie, Nova, and Karen Penn are celibate ascetics.  Miriya is celibate but initially so are all male and female Zentreadi.  There is a subtle message suggesting if the viewer channels their libido into their career, this will yield higher productivity.  At the end of The Macross Saga, the entire bridge crew is killed except for Lisa.  With the death of Roy, the entire bridge crew can be seen as celibate, untouched, and pure.  They are noble saints martyred for Lisa’s chance at true love.

While we are on the topic of physical relations, the Zentreadi are asexual clones with isolated genders, the Masters are celibate immortals with populations of clones in same-sex triumvirate sibling groupings, and the Invid are a strange hive species with a single female Queen and the female Princesses Sera and Ariel.  The Invid also seem asexual or only requiring a single fertilization of the Queen by the Regent.  Later, Tommy Yune turned the cyborg-esque Haydonites into villains.  I assume the Haydonites do not partake in carnal relations.  Apparently, Zor and the micronians are the only characters consummating their love.

On the subject of clones The Macross Saga shows the Zentreadi as clones and their ability to be micronized or restored to full size.  The Masters episodes portray clones and dismembered body parts of clones.  The Invid are protoplasmic.  The Robotech Comic Clone/Mordecai involves odd clones referred to as spleens.  They seem to be subnormal clones created for organ harvesting.  There is a vague Goth erotica underpinning the entire Clone Comic series.  The spleens almost seem to be fetishized gimps or submissives within a sadomasochistic framework while the main characters are the doms.  The Invid also portray a sort of BDSM (bondage discipline/dominance sadomasochism/submissive).  The Regent and Regis seem to enjoy abusing their subordinates.  The new Titan Comic (spoiler alert) veers into BDSM in disciplining Khyron with a spreader bar restraint.  There seems to be a running theme professing the benefits of healthy physical manifestations of love in Robotech while the villains are warped in this capacity.

There is also a theme of cuckolding in Robotech.  Nova cuckolds Dana and Annie cuckolds Lunk.  Within the Rick-Minmei-Lisa love triangle, Minmei cuckolds Lisa and later Lisa cuckolds Minmei.  Minmei also cuckolds Rick as she seemingly leads him on but won’t commit throughout the series and later cuckolds Rick with Lynn Kyle.  Azonia is cuckolded by Minmei.  The Regis cuckolds the Regent, and in a way, Zor cuckolds his elders by sending the SDF-1 to Earth.

Something which rings true for all viewers is when Dolza forces Lisa and Rick to kiss, Lisa allows herself to be intimate by convincing herself it is a military mission to kiss Rick.  She had experienced emotional pain and loss when she lost Karl.  Her coping mechanism was to throw herself into work in order to avoid the pain of loss.  In this moment she discovers a loophole in her own defense mechanism.  She can indulge her physical desires without fear of rejection or creating a lasting connection.  An alternate interpretation is Lisa truly is innocent, similar to the maddening whims of Minmei.  However, as happens in life, love often flourishes when both parties are innocent of their circumstances.  Love often requires serendipity and occurs when we least expect it.  There is a certain element of fate or destiny (the shapings) involved.  If the relationship ends poorly, each partner can deny blame or responsibility for initiating it.  This is similar to the phenomenon of ‘spin the bottle.’  Dolza was a really big bottle.

4.  Gender in Robotech

Fourth, if we are to make a scholarly study of Gender Studies in Robotech we must address Yellow Dancer.  It is very unusual for a 1980’s American children’s cartoon to portray a transvestite.  I’m not sure certain Midwest television markets would allow this to air in 2018 let alone 1985.  Of course, we all know this is not an American cartoon.  I asked the Robotechx San Diego Comic Con booth about this topic.  They informed me of the Japanese tradition of Kabuki theatre.  This usually involves all male actors playing all the parts and all genders.  It’s hard to believe Lancer made it onto public airwaves during the conservative Republican Reagan administration.

The most obvious exploration of gender in Robotech is the Zentreadi culture itself.  The two genders are completely segregated and even seem to despise each other.  It is human nature for us micronians to take things for granted.  Thus, we take our gender roles and all they entail for granted.  The Zentreadi allow the viewers the thought experiment to contemplate gender in a vacuum.  It is often helpful to isolate the subject of study from all variables.  The Zentreadi provide this possibility and the two genders are shown to be equal in all respects.  Through the Zentreadi, the viewer can discover again for the first time certain aspects of the human condition.  These include kissing, marriage, pregnancy, child birth, and domestic bliss.  It is truly profound for children’s animation to accomplish such noble artistic rhapsodies.  The viewer lives vicariously through Dolza as he perspires over the power of a kiss.  As Breetai is nauseated, we observe voyeuristically.  Our heart is warmed as Commander Reno is paralyzed with fear of an infant.  We delight in seeing Miriya transformed by her love for Max and Dana.  Of course, the Zentreadi genders do eventually warm to each other as seen with Azonia and Khyron and Breetai and Kaziana.  On a side note, Azonia seems to be the only full size Zentreadi female on Earth.  However, I believe the comics, novels, and role playing games do insert more full size females on Earth.  In conclusion, the Zentreadi’s social structure seems to imply equality of the two genders will only arise after the elimination of childbirth and motherhood.

Gender roles can loosely be observed in military positions.  In Macross, the bridge is all female and the fighter pilots are males.  While not necessarily co-ed, the Zentreadi do have female fighter pilots.  Southern Cross has co-ed mecha pilots.  Rook is definitely a mecha pilot in The New Generation.

One point about The New Generation Cast is they bear a resemblance to The Wizard of Oz or any motley crew type film.  Scott Bernard assembles his team of misfits.  The team is almost a human personified.  The group becomes a ‘super organism.’  Each member has certain strengths and weaknesses.  Scott is logical and goal driven but tainted by revenge.  Annie is fun and gregarious but absent minded.  Lunk is protective but cowardly and ashamed.  Rook is fierce with emotional baggage.  Rand is youthful and trusting but proud or persecuted.  Lancer is cool and suave but hiding behind a mask.  Ariel is innocent and vulnerable.  Each may engender (no pun intended) a hyper-exaggerated gender specific trait.  Each member of the group or each gender provides certain assets.  The whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts.

Continuing with a scholarly analysis of gender and female characters, we can turn to the aliens of The Sentinels.  They all seem to have balanced genders similar to humans.  Of course, The Praxians are the exception here.  Similar to the Zentreadi, they allow the viewer to re-examine one’s own gender and its pros and cons.  The Praxians and the Zentreadi are an artistic device utilized to illuminate gender roles and possibly orientation.  Even the cyborg-esque Haydonites have genders. 

5.  Character Designs in Robotech

Fifth, let us examine the physical attributes of the characters in Robotech.  The alpha males are taller.  Dolza is taller than Breetai, Breetai is taller than Exedore, and Exedore is the shortest of all Zentreadi males.  Roy is taller than Rick.  Emmerson is taller than Leonard.  Ben is taller than Max, but Max is a wolf in sheep’s clothing… and aviator glasses.  Captain Gloval is taller than everyone.  The Mayor is short and plump embodying the corruption, greed, and gluttony of politics.   Anatole Leonard is obese which signifies a gluttonous villain.

Minmei, Max, Annie, Louie Nichols and Exedore are all small but mighty.  Their innocent exteriors conceal incredible strengths.  Max and Louie wear glasses which indicates physical weakness compensated by intellect and skill.  Lazlo Zand wears goggles concealing his eyes.  This signifies a villain or hidden agenda.  Jonathon Wolfe wears sunglasses and his eyes are hidden.  He betrays his fellow soldiers and has somewhat of an affair with Minmei.  Breetai and T. R. Edwards have faceplates which signifies a villain.  They are disfigured physically as well as spiritually.  Most recently, (spoiler alert) Rick Hunter has enhanced vision in the new Titan Comics similar to Neo in The Matrix film.

Ben Dixon is gregarious like Annie, Dana, and Minmei but he pays a high price.  There is foreshadowing of Ben’s death in his obesity and appetite for life.  His gluttony, impulsivity, and unbalanced desires have a fatal consequence instructing the viewer on the lesson of self-control.  At the other end of the spectrum a character with too much self-control, Sue Graham, while professional, is consumed by her mission and likewise pays a high price.  Oddly, she was using a recording device reminiscent of Lisa recording her visit with Dolza.  Sue also parallels Lisa in being so mission oriented as to lose one’s humanity.  Whereas Lisa evolves and matures, Sue does not live long enough to learn this lesson or embody it.  Robotech seems to preach a healthy work/life balance.

The heroes and protagonists of The Shadow Chronicles all have extreme buffness and buxomness implying good health and virility.  The villainous Haydonites are featureless disembodied ghouls.  Perhaps subconsciously, Tommy Yune chose The Haydonites as the next villain because they are featureless.  This could be seen as symbolic of a hidden agenda or ulterior motive.

6.  Contradictory Characters in Robotech

Sixth, there is often a contradiction in the portrayal of female characters in Robotech.  I suspect viewers or consumers of art respond to truth. We respond to what we see reflected on screen from the world around us.  Thus, I feel Minmei is definitely life-like.  Minmei is a coquette or ingénue or at least very coy and innocent.  While I alluded earlier in the first and second sections of this post (see 1 and 2 above) to Minmei’s strength, perhaps she is not a strong female character at all.  If Minmei was a cookie cutter version of female empowerment or a heroine, the character would not resonate with us. Instead, her flaws humanize her and make her real… like we are.  We cannot escape our nature. I feel Minmei is selfish and needs validation from her fans (in-universe) or from stealing someone's man as seen with Rick and Jonathon Wolfe.  She plays dumb and is non-threatening in order to gain access to levers of power.  She never emasculates a man or threatens a man.  Women must play dumb.  Minmei plays the game.  Since Robotech was written in Japan, is Minmei a chauvinist 1980’s Japanese man's version of a strong female character? Or is Minmei a true heroine? Is Minmei the result of misguided character design/writing? Is Minmei a lame attempt by a writer to create a female heroine?  Is Minmei a misogynist's dream?  Or is Minmei a roaring success? Is it possible the Japanese creators were misogynists with the best of intentions aspiring to create empowered modern female characters only to reveal their own chauvinistic world views?  Did the Japanese creators succeed not because of their genius but in spite of it?

This is where the wisdom of the Japanese creators of Robotech materializes.  Minmei and Lisa are doppelgangers.  They each have vulnerabilities.  They each take separate paths to their goals.  They each utilize different strategies.  Neither is more right or more wrong than the other.  Minmei weaponizes her femininity.  This weaponization is eventually manifested literally.  Lisa takes the path of academic and professional achievements.  Lisa actively attempts to conceal and subjugate her femininity whereas Minmei exploits it.  Lisa’s flaws make her realistic just like Minmei’s flaws make her realistic.  Minmei and Lisa each illuminate the other by comparison.  The female gender is revealed in a study of compare and contrast between these two characters.  Each character is set against the backdrop of the other.  Later, it can be said Lisa is the more fully realized female.  Lisa is married and has a child while Minmei has internal and external struggles.  Robotech’s commentary on the female gender is a stunning achievement for a children’s cartoon.

Other contradictions showing strong female characters to actually be weak are Lisa Hayes starts out as a sort of prude or... sourpuss, and eventually she loosens up.  In Lisa’s case it can be said the male gender (Rick Hunter) still dominates her as Max dominates Miriya. This is a motif referred to as “the taming of the shrew.”  Claudia plays the typical sassy African American. Sammy is a ditz.  These are all standard female archetypes of fiction.  If the media often portrays damsels in distress, Robotech seems to buck the trend with strong female characters as detailed in the second section (see 2 above) of this post.  However, Rick does rescue two damsels in distress.  These being Minmei and Lisa.  Bowie rescues Musica.  In the end, Robotech embodies a patriarchal society which is a reflection of the real world we inhabit.  Captain Gloval is the protagonist patriarch.  Gloval’s governing body, The United Earth Government, is gender-inclusive at Alaska Base, and is antagonist.  Anatole Leonard is the antagonist patriarch in Southern Cross.  Scott Bernard is the protagonist patriarch in The New Generation.  Finally, The Sentinels resolves Robotech’s internal struggle with gender by inevitably arriving at a presumed utopian future of a gender-equal co-command of Admirals Rick and Lisa Hunter.

Allow me to discuss contradicting gender themes in The Shadow Chronicles.  Superficially, Janice Em and Ariel appear to be strong female characters, and yet, it can be argued their physical proportions and costumes appeal to a male viewer’s most primitive stimulation centers.  These characters appeal to my Lynn Kyle/T. R.  Edwards nature but revolt my Captain Gloval/Max Sterling sensibilities.  Robotech succeeds when it depicts dramatized events demonstrating the highest ideals of humanity.

7.  Kinship and the Absence of Maternal Love in Robotech

Seventh, there are no micronian mothers in Robotech.  Rick is raised by Pop Hunter and Roy Fokker.  Lisa is raised by Admiral Donald Hayes.  Karen Penn is raised by Doctor Harry Penn.  Minmei visits her parents in Yokohama in the Japanese Macross but resides with her Aunt and Uncle aboard the SDF-1.  Captain Gloval is a father figure to the bridge crew and the entire SDF-1 population.  Rolf Emerson is a father figure to the 15th Alpha Tactical Armored Corps (ATAC).  Scott Bernard is a father figure to his group of freedom fighters.  Rook, Rand, and Annie are all semi-orphans.  Cabell clones Rem from Zor, the Masters clone Zor Prime from Zor, and Zor himself is a father figure disseminating spores and fertilizing several different worlds.  Haydon is the uber-patriarch of the known universe and the Masters, Dolza, Leonard, and the Regent are all patriarchs over their subordinates.  Finally, after the creation and broadcast of the three original Japanese cartoons, The Sentinels portrays Jean Grant as mother to Bowie Grant.  The only moms presented in Robotech are aliens.  Miriya is a mother in The Macross Saga.  Ariel comes close to being a mother in The New Generation by demonstrating unconditional love for her comrades, and, for purposes of this discussion, the androgynous Zor Prime becomes a mother to the 15th ATAC and Earth in Southern Cross.  Is the theme the inadequacy of paternal love?  Is there a message of moms being foreign or alien to us?  Is a mother’s capacity for unconditional love only explained by her super human background?  In summary, alien outsiders arrive as recent converts to micronian culture and fill the void in the character’s lives by providing a mother’s love.  This may be a phenomenon referred to as the zeal of the convert.  Furthermore, the alien achieves an idealized and divine version of motherhood through freedom from any emotional baggage or even past.  The alien becomes more human than the humans thus providing a measuring stick by which the viewers can assess themselves.  Of special note, the SDF-1 itself is the most iconic super-maternal image of the entire Robotech opera.  In Macross the SDF-1 is pregnant with a civilian population it incubates, gestates, and delivers safely to its nest, Planet Earth.  Paralleling this, the gravid SDF-1 eventually releases spores and fertilizes all of Earth in Southern Cross.  In this light the protoculture matrix can be viewed as a type of womb containing regenerative and rejuvenative powers.

The Praxians go beyond demonstrating the inadequacy of paternal love and illustrate the utter uselessness of it.  Meanwhile, Zor singlehandedly disorders and upsets the entire Tzuptum System, the Tirolian Local Group, and the micronians.  Dolza and later the Masters each fail their own respective cultures.  The Regent fails his race while his wife transcends to a new plane of consciousness.  Finally, Admiral Donald Hayes asks his daughter to betray her friends and responsibilities while he condones the SDF-1’s assignment as a decoy in play for time.  For his flawed paternal advice he is incinerated in the Grand Cannon in an act of cosmic justice allowing Captain Gloval to ascend to his place as Lisa’s true father figure while Claudia becomes a sort of maternal figure for Lisa. 

Not only does Robotech detail the inadequacy of paternal love, but it warns against bad moms.  The Regis is a controlling, unavailable, self-involved mother.

In regards to themes related to family, the three original Japanese cartoons are all loosely connected by Tatsunoku Productions, country of origin, culture of origin, and chronological proximity of creation.  To form Robotech and fit these three series together, Carl Macek created artificial contrivances to merge them as one.  In the case of familial love, Carl Macek exerted a large impact on any lessons, intended or unintended by the Japanese, when he created genealogies between characters from different shows.  Therefore, in the case of kinship, a note of caution should be heeded as well as discernment between the Japanese audience’s impressions and the American audience’s impressions when searching for social commentary within Robotech in an analysis such as this.  The three Japanese cartoons suggest the importance of family.  Max and Miriya and Lisa and Rick are the beginnings of two families.  The 15th ATAC squad forms their own family, and Scott Bernard forms his own family of resistance fighters.  However, Carl Macek re-characterized Dana as the daughter of Max and Miriya and made Bowie the son of Vince and Jean.  This artificial creation to establish continuity within the series almost reverses the implied message of the importance of family as the parents choose to leave their children behind.  Maia Sterling is either left behind in the Shadow Chronicles or is serving a tour of duty away from her parents.

There is a theme of adoption or mixed families in Robotech as well.  Bowie and Dana are under Emerson’s guardianship, and Miriya, Zor Prime, and Ariel are each aliens adopted into a group.  As stated previously, the SDF-1 bridge crew and maybe the entire SDF-1 population, the 15th ATAC, Scott’s freedom fighters, and the Sentinels all form family bonds stronger than their un-relatedness would predict.  Minmei’s living situation with her Aunt and Uncle gives her a sense of vulnerability and of being a misfit.  She is fortuitously paired with Rick who himself was simply visiting his friend Roy.  Lisa is also orphaned after the rain of death.  The SDF-1 adopts the entire population of Macross Island.  Minmei is adopted as Macross City’s collective daughter.  Later, the population of Earth adopts all the Zentreadi.  In summation, Robotech espouses love, friendship, mutual respect, inclusiveness, teamwork, compassion, understanding, empathy, and cooperation as the sources of humanity’s resiliency and strength in the face of adversity.

Thanks for reading my ramblings.  I hope you enjoyed this post.  Please do not get too angry or passionate Lol!  I wrote this in good faith for the fans to enjoy, discuss, and dissect.  What are your thoughts, questions, comments, corrections, and/or criticisms?  :)

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Welome to MacrossWorld!  I think you'll find most of us here hail from your generation, and many of us were dedicated Robotech fans growing up.

However, if you wish to engender serious discussion, the members most likely to contribute -- the most intelligent and articulate users here -- also tend to be vehemently anti-Robotech nowadays, so I'd advise you to restrict your observations to the characters and events of Macross.  While there are a great deal of Mospeada fans here as well, we are generally dismissive of Southern Cross, and highly critical of any attempt to link these series together...

...and if you wish to be taken seriously, you should probably never mention T.R. Edwards again.  :p

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45 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

Hello.  I’m new here.  Please forgive me but my post turned into an essay.  Is it within the rules to host this essay on your forum? 

Hi @Brofessor... I'm guessing you didn't read the Forum Rules & Guidelines before posting? 

The short answer to your question is "probably not".  Robotech is, for a variety of reasons, a profoundly unwelcome topic on most any Macross fansite or Facebook group.  MacrossWorld is unusually lenient with it, in that discussion of Robotech is allowed only in the context of how it relates to the original shows that were adapted to make it (MacrossSouthern CrossMOSPEADA, and the first episode of Megazone 23).  Most Macross fansites and Facebook groups greet attempts to start discussion of Robotech with an immediate and permanent ban for the poor sod who didn't read the rules before posting.  Even here, since the topic of how the shows changed in the adaptation was talked to death over a decade ago, the only real discussion of the topic is a thread devoted to pointing and laughing at what a crappy job Titan Comics is doing with their comic book adaptation of Robotech's adaptation of the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could recommend a place to actually have an intelligent, academic discussion of Robotech.  Its fans tend to be much more interested in bickering over minutae and fan theories that were officially jossed over 15 years ago.  To be frank, I'd also question the sanity of trying to do a literary analysis of Robotech given the thoroughly documented and attested-to fact that the series was an incredibly rushed adaptation wherein the rewriters and voice actors were largely making it up as they went with no time to check their work for quality or consistency.  Doing an analysis of a work generally depends on seeking out authorial intent, be it overt or implicit.  That would be a bit of a fool's errand in a gag dub quality edit of a pre-existing work.  It'd be like looking for subtext in the cliffnotes or a blooper reel.  You'd be better served to analyze the original shows, where there was a demonstrable, coordinated authorial direction set for the story and character development undiluted by a faintly racist editor who thought references to other cultures except as caricatures would cause the audience's heads to explode.

 

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Section III: Robotech

Robotech may be discussed only as it relates to Macross. We do not want this forum to be another Robotech site. Macross World and its forums are dedicated to the original Japanese vision of Macross before Robotech changed so many aspects of it. Please do not just come here to attack or to defend Robotech or things related to it.

 

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I mean, rules are rules and what I think ultimately has no bearing.  But I kind of feel like the Robotech rule was more important years ago, when Robotech was getting DVD releases and and on Cartoon Network and kind of on the rise.  There was a lot of animosity between the Macross purists and Robotech crowd, and a rule like this was necessary to preemptively keep things from getting nasty.  These days, though, with Macross fans having enjoyed Zero, Frontier, and Delta while Robotech seems to be on the decline, it seems to me like the (flame) war is over.  I mean, when I saw this thread my initial reaction wasn't to question whether a Robotech thread belonged here, it was whether a women's studies thread belonged here.  And again, that's not for me to decide, but ultimately I don't really care one way or the other.  Maybe I'm just getting old, but I don't have inclination to get fired up on the internet the way I used to.  Ultimately I feel like @Brofessor isn't hurting anybody and that reading and engaging with this thread and it's topics is a choice.  If it bothers me, I could simply not read and not engage, and as long as the replies are respectful I don't really have a problem with it.

Of course, that does hinge on the respectful part, which isn't a given.  And again, not my site, not my rules, so it's not like my opinion carries a lot of weight.

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@Brofessor I haven't read through your analysis yet, so I'll be upfront about that.  I'm relatively new around here, having become an active poster only 5 years or so ago, but I agree with Tekering's and Seto's sentiments, which I upvoted.

I don't mind a discussion about RT, it is how most of us in our greying generation came to know these works initially.  But I think it would be disingenuous to assume that what came across as RT is what the creators intended.  At best RT, could be analyzed for the intent, mindset, and motivation of the individuals that decided to take it's three disparate components, re-write and dub them to produce it.

As you are clearly someone that is invested in those stories I highly recommend searching out the original Japanese versions and then going through the exercise of comparing and contrasting various topics such as how gender and race relations we portrayed in Japan versus how they were filtered and remolded for the US.  I know I find the differences fascinating.

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3 hours ago, Brofessor said:

I would like to hear your thoughts about Academic Gender Studies and/or Female Character Analysis in regards to Robotech. ... Furthermore, I would like to critique Robotech as a work of art through the lens of Gender Studies and Female Character Analysis.  ... I am interested in your ideas about Robotech and its interpretation as it relates to Jungian Archetypes and Freudian Analysis. ... In the future I hope to analyze Robotech through the disciplines of Formalism, Structuralism, Ecocriticism, Post-Modernism, Post-Colonialism, Moralism, Marxism, and Psychoanalysis.

Um I get the feeling you really epically overthought this.  It's a toy commercial.  It was made to sell plastic model kits from Revell's flop of a Transformers mockbuster.  That's all there is to it.  All the actual substance is from the original shows.  

You could probably get a good women's studies term paper out of the stupidly misogynistic writing in Southern Cross tho.  It's not every day someone is ballsy enough to try to pass off a girl who only wants to be a housewife as a strong female character.

Also that is a LOT of pretentious academic buzzwords.  Like woah.  It's been ages since college but aren't Freud and Jung both hopelessly outdated and unreliable psychological models?  

 

3 hours ago, Brofessor said:

I hope to answer the following questions with this post.  What are we responding to within Robotech?  What intrigues us about Robotech?  What resonates with us about Robotech?  Why do I like Robotech?

  1. The content of the original shows
  2. The content of the original shows
  3. The content of the original shows
  4. Medically speaking there's no accounting for taste

 

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3 hours ago, technoblue said:

why have seven different threads for subcategories discussing the same subject? Why not merge them into one topic?

Hi there.  Nice to meet you.  Thanks for your reply.  I was hoping for some discussions and I felt one giant essay post would get too confusing with too many topics and sub-topics.  I felt like 7 posts could allow for at least 7 distinct subjects.  I was also worried the moderators would be upset with a giant essay with too many topics.  The giant essay idea seems like a violation of forum rules.  7 serious topics of discussion seems legitimate, but I totally see your point and I was tempted to post it as one giant essay.

Edited by Brofessor
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I have Art Major friends, Psychology friends and Anime Fanboy friends.  From my experience, these types of discussions and analysis become more about what the individuals discussing the topic gets out it.  People pick their favorites characters or events and fantasize about them.  They create a form of fan-fiction in their head based on speculation and personal desire.

 

We are talking about children's shows created for profit and what merchandise the stakeholders felt they could sell from it.

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Hi @Brofessor... I'm guessing you didn't read the Forum Rules & Guidelines before posting? 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I could recommend a place to actually have an intelligent, academic discussion of Robotech.  Its fans tend to be much more interested in bickering over minutae and fan theories that were officially jossed over 15 years ago.  To be frank, I'd also question the sanity of trying to do a literary analysis of Robotech given the thoroughly documented and attested-to fact that the series was an incredibly rushed adaptation wherein the rewriters and voice actors were largely making it up as they went with no time to check their work for quality or consistency.  Doing an analysis of a work generally depends on seeking out authorial intent, be it overt or implicit.  That would be a bit of a fool's errand in a gag dub quality edit of a pre-existing work.  It'd be like looking for subtext in the cliffnotes or a blooper reel.  You'd be better served to analyze the original shows, where there was a demonstrable, coordinated authorial direction set for the story and character development undiluted by a faintly racist editor who thought references to other cultures except as caricatures would cause the audience's heads to explode.

Hi there.  Excellent reply.  Thanks a lot.  Would you say the "anime and science fiction" forum category does not allow Robotech?  I was hoping as long as I stayed out of the explicitly Macross forums it would be ok.

Thanks for your expertise in trying to point me to a proper home for my discussion.  Like you, I feel there really is none.  I also appreciate your futile feelings about attempting to analyze the Frankenstein monster of Robotech.  However, your suggestion of being cognizant of Macek's faintly racist hand is something I would enjoy discussing.  I have pondered this but am saving it for an analysis through the lens of Ethnocriticism or Post-Colonialism.  Thanks again for your understanding.

 

 

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It’s ironic how many of us started out with RT and were inspired by it. But shortly afterwards discovered the SOURCE work Macross. And most of us never really looked back. Discovering Macross after RT was like enjoying my 8th grade history class and then discovering Howard Zinn’s A People’s History. I threw away my old history books and ..

Nevertheless , I applaud your efforts to open such a discussion. Unfortunately, where would such a topic reside??

I don’t have any personal issue with the thread , but many will. Just try to understand why!

I will say that even though RT, And Macross for that matter , were (and arguably still are) about selling toys and making money. But it was also about taking science fiction and certain themes into a new and creative direction. And of course there are stereotypes , archetypes and social issues , etc.present. It was written and created by humans! 

I understand that many westerners had(have?) easy access to RT , but these days Macross is not hard to get your hands on. And , I dare say, if you had approached this thread with the title Macross substituting RT in every instance, you would probably have gotten a lot more positive and participatory responses. 

If you had an understanding of the Macross universe to date , THIS would be an interesting discussion!

But approaching it from an RT angle is maybe doomed here. 

I hope your discussion can stay alive somehow!

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Could a Moderator or Admin contact me about this post?  Lol!  I am new here.  I assume you guys are being nice to me by allowing this post so thank you for your kindness and understanding.  I accept your ruling.  My theory was Robotech would be allowed in the "anime and science fiction" forum category.  I understand it is a controversial topic Lol!  I was also concerned posting my entire essay as one post would be too confusing for discussions to stay focused and on topic.  So I posted 7 different topics of discussion.  This would allow for the conversations to stay on topic.  Can you revert your edits and allow my posts and 7 different topics?  If not, I would now be interested in editing my post and just posting it as one giant post.  Help.  What should I do?  My post looks too crazy now Lol!  All my internal links are broken links now.  Thanks for all your assistance and compassion.

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Hey I'm the one who merged them. Did it quickly with a single click.  Please try to keep this all to one topic.  Repost it under a new topic if you have to.

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15 minutes ago, Convectuoso said:

I've watched Robotech many, many times and don't remember ever hearing of The Regent or TR Edwards

They're both from the canceled Robotech II: the Sentinels series that was terminated early in production with only about three episodes of material finished.

T.R. Edwards was the mook in the half-mask who was basically Starscream and the Invid Regent was the big, dumb, Saturday morning cartoon villain bad guy.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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24 minutes ago, Convectuoso said:

I've watched Robotech many, many times and don't remember ever hearing of The Regent or TR Edwards

Edwards is a Novel creation (Seto: did the books come first before the production of Sentinels?). The Regent is the invid queen chick I believe... God, how do I still remember that sh*t from literally the last century...

I down voted 90% of Brofessor's posts mostly because this forums is NOT for placing a disitation (sp?) for your college English lit class. Love your forum name but please, for the love of god, keep the discussion to things Macross or things Japanese. Tekering was being very polite about our, ah... disinterest in the product still in corrupt HG's bloody, feces smeared paws (at least for the next 2-3 years) but if you gotta about something, Talk to me about Yamato 2202 (an excellent example)... I would be willing to read a college prep topic on that...

And... Welcome aboard, Brofessor. Don't be shy, it's not always a mosh pit (sometimes it actually turns into ballet around here...) 

Edited by TehPW
Seto might be more correct... its been EONS since i read the books...
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1 hour ago, TehPW said:

Edwards is a Novel creation (Seto: did the books come first before the production of Sentinels?). The Regent is the invid queen chick I believe... God, how do I still remember that sh*t from literally the last century...

The aborted Robotech II: the Sentinels animated series predates the novels by several years.

"Edwards" actually predates Robotech II: the Sentinels though.  He was originally supposed to be a tie-in character connecting HG's butchering of Megazone 23 Part 1 (Robotech: the Movie) to the "original" series Robotech II: the Sentinels.  The original plan for their adaptation of Megazone 23 was to make it a side story to their adaptation of Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  The coverup that the protagonist was to uncover was the real fate of the SDF-1 (from before the ship returned to Earth the first time).  The principal antagonist, B.D. Andrews, was to be brought into Robotech II: the Sentinels as a foil for "Rick Hunter" and Eve was going to become the android girl (later known as Janice Em).

That plan changed when Tatsunoko Production told HG on no uncertain terms that they were not permitted to use Macross for the movie.  So Robotech: the Movie was rethought into a Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross adaptation side story about an alien attack trying to recover part of the SDF-1's computer core.  With that, their plans for a tie-in were dead so they changed the names somewhat and invented a new backstory where T.R. Edwards (the renamed B.D. Andrews) was another survivor from the Grand Cannon who was bitter because he and his dying lover were missed by "Rick Hunter" when he was legging it out of the place.  The goofy phantom of the opera mask was to ensure that HG could go "Original the Character: DO NOT STEAL" regarding him, even though he was supposed to be the baddie from Megazone 23.

 

The Regent isn't the Invid queen... that's the Regess.  The Regent is an original character that was modeled on the Inbit line art from the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, who was supposed to be the Regess's estranged husband and "king" of the Invid who was not obsessed with evolving but rather was on a massive revenge trip against the Robotech Masters that left him a delightfully hammy Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

 

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

And... Welcome aboard, Brofessor. Don't be shy, it's not always a mosh pit (sometimes it actually turns into ballet around here...) 

Unless it's a technology/mecha question, then it's an AMA for me and sketchley. :p 

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1 hour ago, Convectuoso said:

I've watched Robotech many, many times and don't remember ever hearing of The Regent or TR Edwards

Hi there.   Thanks for your comment.  Good point.  My post is a little too long to really be absorbed Lol!  I put a lot of qualifying statements right up front.  I am taking a very broad over arching view of Robotech in all its canon and non-canon manifestations.  This includes novels written by Jack McKinney which include the Regent and T. R. Edwards.  Hopefully, I can get a discussion going about the assertions I make in my post which could occasionally apply to symbols and themes in Macross. 

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On 12/8/2018 at 9:11 AM, BlackRose said:

It's a toy commercial.  It was made to sell plastic model kits from Revell's flop of a Transformers mockbuster.  That's all there is to it.  All the actual substance is from the original shows.  

Hey there.  Thanks for all your insights.  I totally agree.  The task of working my way through all the Macross material seems daunting but I shall begin Lol!  Even if Robotech is a toy commercial, I would still be interested in analyzing themes and symbols even in 30 second toy commercials.  It's pretty fascinating stuff.

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6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Unless it's a technology/mecha question, then it's an AMA for me and sketchley. :p 

Since my name was dropped...

What he's been saying about the characters and the adaptation process is on the money.  The only thing OT I can add is when Seto brought up one of the female protagonist's main life goals as being a good housewife, it got me thinking that a) one really should be looking at the originals in Japanese, not what was presented in Robotech (as Seto and the others have been pointing out), and b) looking at Japanese culture itself (but not with cultural blinders on.  More like in the 'put yourself in their shoes' vein).

Going back to the 'good housewife' point, it brought to mind thoughts of: how much is that show a child of the '80's?  How much were the writers reflecting reality or the idealized female character for their target demographic (not necessarily male)?

Expanding on my b): I teach youths, and a surprising number of female students have responded that their dream job (or future plans or whatever) is to be a housewife.  As that's right now (the 2010's), it begs the question of not so much gender roles in the culture, but how the role of people (both men's and women's) are dictated in society.

So, perhaps instead of psychoanalyzing the mess that is Robotech (I have fond memories of the show, mind you.  But it's been left in my childhood for a reason), I humbly suggest something more current like: why the Me Two movement hasn't really caught on in Japan like it has in other parts of the world, and why that movement has had more traction in South Korea?  (A country which is much, much similar culturally and linguistically to Japan, than the English speaking countries that the majority of us originate in.)

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It made lot'sa sense in the now defunct Jack McKinney novels how the Robetech masters screwed up their "children", the Zentraedi who initially were miners for their Monopole ore then suddenly mindwiped to be their hatchet men for galactic conquest. They also imposed their own caste system in the "Masters" part of the trilogy. Just an allegory of all the events that occurred in ancient and modern human history. 

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8 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The aborted Robotech II: the Sentinels animated series predates the novels by several years.

"Edwards" actually predates Robotech II: the Sentinels though.  He was originally supposed to be a tie-in character connecting HG's butchering of Megazone 23 Part 1 (Robotech: the Movie) to the "original" series Robotech II: the Sentinels.  The original plan for their adaptation of Megazone 23 was to make it a side story to their adaptation of Super Dimension Fortress Macross.  The coverup that the protagonist was to uncover was the real fate of the SDF-1 (from before the ship returned to Earth the first time).  The principal antagonist, B.D. Andrews, was to be brought into Robotech II: the Sentinels as a foil for "Rick Hunter" and Eve was going to become the android girl (later known as Janice Em).

That plan changed when Tatsunoko Production told HG on no uncertain terms that they were not permitted to use Macross for the movie.  So Robotech: the Movie was rethought into a Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross adaptation side story about an alien attack trying to recover part of the SDF-1's computer core.  With that, their plans for a tie-in were dead so they changed the names somewhat and invented a new backstory where T.R. Edwards (the renamed B.D. Andrews) was another survivor from the Grand Cannon who was bitter because he and his dying lover were missed by "Rick Hunter" when he was legging it out of the place.  The goofy phantom of the opera mask was to ensure that HG could go "Original the Character: DO NOT STEAL" regarding him, even though he was supposed to be the baddie from Megazone 23.

 

The Regent isn't the Invid queen... that's the Regess.  The Regent is an original character that was modeled on the Inbit line art from the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA, who was supposed to be the Regess's estranged husband and "king" of the Invid who was not obsessed with evolving but rather was on a massive revenge trip against the Robotech Masters that left him a delightfully hammy Saturday Morning Cartoon villain.

 

Unless it's a technology/mecha question, then it's an AMA for me and sketchley. :p 

Another part of the Invid regiss and regent backstory, I believe it was from Jack McKinney's writings is that the Invid (not yet queen) but collective or spirit after encountering or upon encountering Zor was so enamored  at him that to be able to "communicate" with him took on the form of a bipedal humanoid form. But as a side effect, cause it to split into male and female. The female of course is the hairless humanoid of varying stature the Regiss. The Regent, well, he appeared as that 20/30 foot tall snail's head/foot bipedal creature.

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On 12/9/2018 at 1:58 AM, Bolt said:

It’s ironic how many of us started out with RT and were inspired by it. But shortly afterwards discovered the SOURCE work Macross. And most of us never really looked back. Discovering Macross after RT was like enjoying my 8th grade history class and then discovering Howard Zinn’s A People’s History. I threw away my old history books and ..

Nevertheless , I applaud your efforts to open such a discussion. Unfortunately, where would such a topic reside??

I don’t have any personal issue with the thread , but many will. Just try to understand why!

I will say that even though RT, And Macross for that matter , were (and arguably still are) about selling toys and making money. But it was also about taking science fiction and certain themes into a new and creative direction. And of course there are stereotypes , archetypes and social issues , etc.present. It was written and created by humans! 

I understand that many westerners had(have?) easy access to RT , but these days Macross is not hard to get your hands on. And , I dare say, if you had approached this thread with the title Macross substituting RT in every instance, you would probably have gotten a lot more positive and participatory responses. 

If you had an understanding of the Macross universe to date , THIS would be an interesting discussion!

But approaching it from an RT angle is maybe doomed here. 

I hope your discussion can stay alive somehow!

It was reverse to me. Macross first then Robotech.

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Interesting topic... about the first point, I always think that it was very strange that a simple doll can cause a lot of commotion among the Zentradi (Also because a tiny Doll will be almost invisible for a giant Zentradi), and after some time thinking about that I reach the conclusion that it wasn't a simple doll, but a Dakimakura... you know, one of this.

rtyytr.png

Think about it... it has the same human size and because the sexy pose it can cause a lot of... "chaos" around the male Zentradi.

Of course, the TV Series and Movie depict the Doll as a simple toy but... I think the "true" story of the Dakimakura is pretty funny :D (I wrote a complete theory about this in my Fanfic)

Edit: Sorry about my english :P

 

 

Edited by Gerli
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58 minutes ago, Gerli said:

Interesting topic... about the first point, I always think that it was very strange that a simple doll can cause a lot of commotion among the Zentradi (Also because a tiny Doll will be almost invisible for a giant Zentradi), and after some time thinking about that I reach the conclusion that it wasn't a simple doll, but a Dakimakura... you know, one of this.

rtyytr.png

Think about it... it has the same human size and because the sexy pose it can cause a lot of... "chaos" around the male Zentradi.

Of course, the TV Series and Movie depict the Doll as a simple toy but... I think the "true" story of the Dakimakura is pretty funny :D (I wrote a complete theory about this in my Fanfic)

Edit: Sorry about my english :P

 

 

Is there a singing Daikamura?

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5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

You quote my whole post then respond to one sentence.

How funny!

"cause I agree with your entire post is why. Only difference is that, well I encountered Macross first. Usually, the norm is that RT then Macross. I was fortunate enough to have early exposure to anime etc without the sanitizing western influences.

Not that I'm putting down Carl Macek's efforts. If not for him, anime in the west would not have taken root early.

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6 hours ago, fenrir72 said:

They also imposed their own caste system in the "Masters" part of the trilogy. Just an allegory of all the events that occurred in ancient and modern human history. 

Hi there.  Great insights.  This topic is more about Gender Analysis.  I am interested in writing analyses from other perspectives.  Your point would fit into Cultural Studies.  You are implying the Japanese writers projected their caste system onto the Masters which is an excellent point.

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1 hour ago, Brofessor said:

Hi there.  Great insights.  This topic is more about Gender Analysis.  I am interested in writing analyses from other perspectives.  Your point would fit into Cultural Studies.  You are implying the Japanese writers projected their caste system onto the Masters which is an excellent point.

As I said, everything is an allegory of what really happened in their culture.

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