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5 hours ago, mechaninac said:

STP has a -- very small -- chance of being salvaged if they go back to the drawing board and scrap any footage that even hints of Bad Reboot's and Klutzman's influence... make it so the test screening episode never happened;

Frankly, my bet is on CBS trying to brazen it out and pushing Star Trek: Picard as-is rather than reversing course and either tactly or explicitly admitting that the entire direction they set for the Star Trek franchise five years ago was a massive mistake.  They've got Amazon's money already, so they're not going to want to give it back and take a second substantial loss on development costs for a Star Trek show.  (Rumor has it they're upside-down $200M on Discovery right now.)

 

5 hours ago, mechaninac said:

STD, on the other hand, is beyond redemption and needs to be relegated to a Q induced nightmare that causes Picard or Riker or Janeway to wake up in a cold sweat, or the aftereffects of some bad replicated fish... strike it from even an alternate canon.

I think there's something to the idea that was used to poke fun at a bunch of the rejected Star Trek series pitches in the DTI novels... treat it as a bad alternate timeline that was created by hostile powers in the Temporal Cold War and retroactively prevented by the intervention of temporal agents from the Temporal Integrity Commission and/or Federation Temporal Agency.

(The DTI novels attributed a few bombed Trek pitches, like the 25th century cartoon proposal about a galaxy where omega particle weapons destroyed subspace and left most of the galaxy un-navigateable, to the work of Future Guy from Enterprise... listed when FTA agents read the charges against him during his arrest.)

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36 minutes ago, UN Spacy said:

Looks like Alex Kurtzman won’t be as involved with Star Trek: Picard...and that’s a good thing.

It's a step in the right direction... shame it's still a half-marathon between them and "watchable".

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On 6/21/2019 at 6:40 PM, mechaninac said:

STP has a -- very small -- chance of being salvaged if they go back to the drawing board and scrap any footage that even hints of Bad Reboot's and Klutzman's influence... make it so the test screening episode never happened; STD, on the other hand, is beyond redemption and needs to be relegated to a Q induced nightmare that causes Picard or Riker or Janeway to wake up in a cold sweat, or the aftereffects of some bad replicated fish... strike it from even an alternate canon.

Can we at least keep all the Captain Pike stuff?

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1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Can we at least keep all the Captain Pike stuff?

As great as Adson Mount's performance as Christopher Pike was, why would you want to keep him as a doormat for Starfleet's biggest disgrace?

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13 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

As great as Adson Mount's performance as Christopher Pike was, why would you want to keep him as a doormat for Starfleet's biggest disgrace?

Well... we could simply use the Discovery episodes he was in as a springboard for a new series: "Star Trek: Pike". :D

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28 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Well... we could simply use the Discovery episodes he was in as a springboard for a new series: "Star Trek: Pike". :D

Ugh... as long as the Star Trek: Discovery cast is involved, I'd rather just bury it like evidence of the dreadful crime that Discovery is.

Bad Robot's whole take on the Star Trek franchise just needs to go away.  It'll never be real Star Trek.

If they're gonna do a TOS-era Star Trek series, I'd rather they pick something unrelated to the characters we've become familiar with.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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3 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Can we at least keep all the Captain Pike stuff?

In legal parlance STD's version of Pike would be considered a Fruit from the Poisonous Tree, and, therefore, tainted beyond redemption or acceptability.

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In the first episode, Pike uses the Guardian of Forever to prevent the spore drive's invention and stop Discovery from happening.

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I just wish that they went with Fuller's original idea: Anthology-based story telling. Such a better idea than what we ended up getting... 

and an update about the Lawsuit.

Edited by TehPW

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16 hours ago, JB0 said:

In the first episode, Pike uses the Guardian of Forever to prevent the spore drive's invention and stop Discovery from happening.

Pushing Michael Burnham into traffic would also be acceptable.

 

 

16 hours ago, TehPW said:

I just wish that they went with Fuller's original idea: Anthology-based story telling. Such a better idea than what we ended up getting...

Really, anything would have been better than what we got.  

Even a performance of Star Trek music done entirely with dollar store kazoos and autotuned flatulence.

(I'm not saying that Discovery was the worst Star Trek title ever made... just that it's the worst Star Trek title made thus far.)

 

16 hours ago, TehPW said:

and an update about the Lawsuit.

It's not really an update, just a reiteration of the progress that's been made up to now... which has mostly been Anas Abdin's lawyer successfully arguing against CBS's motions to dismiss on various grounds that border from unreasonable to ridiculous such as the infamous claim that bear-sized, bright blue tartigrades capable of instantaneous interdimensional teleportation across time, space, and multiple alternate realities are a commonplace thing in science fiction.

(Then again, ridiculous motions to dismiss are often par for the course in copyright infringement suits... mostly being attempts to put off the inevitable as long as possible, like the ones FASA filed when they were sued for illegally using Macross designs in theier games.)

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Lets not bring that up (although I still think the folks at FASA had NO CLUE how radioactive those pictures/imagery they 'bought' from TCI until they realized too late in court)...

What if CBS loses the court case? What implications for the already filmed portions of STD?

Edited by TehPW

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24 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Lets not bring that up (although I still think the folks at FASA had NO CLUE how radioactive those pictures/imagery they 'bought' from TCI until they realized too late in court)...

What if CBS loses the court case? What implications for the already filmed portions of STD?

Anything involving the infringed IP would be illegal for them to show again.  Barring some kind of deal with the owner.

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1 hour ago, TehPW said:

Lets not bring that up (although I still think the folks at FASA had NO CLUE how radioactive those pictures/imagery they 'bought' from TCI until they realized too late in court)...

No chance.  They knew, they were just hoping they wouldn't get called on it... same as CBS, who admitted access and copying but want to claim that a bear-sized blue tardigrade that can teleport interstellar distances is too generic for Mr. Abdin to claim it was copied.

 

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

What if CBS loses the court case? What implications for the already filmed portions of STD?

That would depend very much on which portions of Star Trek: Discovery are found to have been illegally taken from, or based on, Mr. Anas Abdin's game Tardigrades.

Mr. Abdin's allegation is that a nontrivial portion of the Star Trek: Discovery season one plot is stolen from his game, as well as much of the cast, and the core mechanics of the "spore drive" that is the USS Discovery's main gimmick.  The real sticking point isn't going to be the tardigrade... it's going to be the cast.  If the court only finds that CBS plagiarized the bear-sized blue tardigrade that travels instantaneously through time, space, and dimensions, bare minimum they're stuck with a huge payout for damages to Mr. Abdin because the payout would be a percentage of all profits earned from the infringing material (season one).  They would also likely lose the ability to distribute season one on home video or stream unless they paid royalties to Mr. Abdin for the use of his intellectual property.  The tardigrade isn't coming back, and the spore drive was already being de-emphasized at the end of season one, so the damage would be severe but containable.

Should the courts find in Mr. Abdin's favor on the subject of CBS having allegedly plagiarized the cast from Mr. Abdin's game Tardigrades as well... well, that's the end of the Star Trek: Discovery series because they would have to pay damages against profits from the entire run of the show and all related character merchandise, as well as being unable to use those characters anymore unless they got Mr. Abdin's permission and paid royalties to him for their use.  In the past, the Star Trek franchise has avoided even minor royalty payouts to the authors who wrote past episodes when they wanted to reuse one-shot characters, so I think having to pay royalties against most of the cast would still be a show-killer. 

(The previous example character Nick Locarno, Wesley Crusher's squad leader in Star Trek: the Next Generation, who was rewritten into Tom Paris when they decided they wanted to reuse the character but didn't want to pay royalties to the writer of that old episode.)

CBS claims to be upside-down on Star Trek: Discovery to the tune of $200 million from development costs planned to be amortized over a seven season run, so any significant monetary damages awarded to Anas Abdin are potential show-killers when they already can't afford to produce Star Trek: Discovery's third season.

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Hmmm... Paramount/CBS had a conniption when it came to fan productions, but seems to have no issue when it comes to violating them itself concerning others' IP. I'm not saying the two are the exact same issue, but I do see something of "pot and kettle" here.

Edited by pengbuzz

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

CBS claims to be upside-down on Star Trek: Discovery to the tune of $200 million from development costs planned to be amortized over a seven season run

That kind of thing is just SOP for Movie and TV production...

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21 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Hmmm... Paramount/CBS had a conniption when it came to fan productions, but seems to have no issue when it comes to violating them itself concerning others' IP. I'm not saying the two are the exact same issue, but I do see something of "pot and kettle" here.

The Star Trek franchise's litigious little tantrum over fan productions probably had a lot less to do with protecting the IP than it did with CBS and Paramount feeling threatened by high quality fan productions like Star Trek: Axanar that were better received by fans than official productions like the Star Trek reboot films.  The fans were stealing their thunder, so they put a stop to it.

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1 minute ago, Dynaman said:

That kind of thing is just SOP for Movie and TV production...

Granted, though Netflix seems to dispute that particular claim as well as CBS's claim that Netflix should be responsible for sunk costs if the show doesn't last seven seasons...

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On 6/30/2019 at 3:36 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's not really an update, just a reiteration of the progress that's been made up to now... which has mostly been Anas Abdin's lawyer successfully arguing against CBS's motions to dismiss on various grounds that border from unreasonable to ridiculous such as the infamous claim that bear-sized, bright blue tartigrades capable of instantaneous interdimensional teleportation across time, space, and multiple alternate realities are a commonplace thing in science fiction.

I think my favorite part was:

Judge: You guys need to stop filing generic requests for dismissal and start making specific legal arguments. Also, you are legally compelled to supply Mister Abdin's lawyers with any relevant information they ask for.

CBS: Here's another generic request for dismissal, and we're ignoring Mister Abdin's lawyers. If we pretend you didn't say anything, it never happened.

 

Though I must admit "We promise not to sue you for getting ripped off by us. BTW, we're on vacation so bye." was pretty special too.

Edited by JB0

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40 minutes ago, JB0 said:

 Judge: You guys need to stop filing generic requests for dismissal and start making specific legal arguments. Also, you are legally compelled to supply Mister Abdin's lawyers with any relevant information they ask for.

CBS: Here's another generic request for dismissal, and we're ignoring Mister Abdin's lawyers. If we pretend you didn't say anything, it never happened.

Oh, that behavior is going to come back to bite CBS in the arse when they finally exhaust their attempts at summary dismissal and the case goes to trial.

The consequences of not cooperating with a court-ordered discovery process can include heavy fines, their own evidence not being admitted in court, and even summary judgement against them if they get really obstructive... which it sounds like they're doing.  Refusing to cooperate with a request for discovery is generally a good way to show the jury and/or the judge (in a bench trial) that you're trying to hide incriminating evidence.  It's like pleading the fifth, but unlike pleading the fifth it's actually illegal.  (That they've admitted access and copying from Mr. Abdin's work is a pretty clear indication of what they're hiding... that plagiarism really did occur and was widespread.)

CBS's lawyers are clearly counting on winning this case by outspending opposing counsel.  They seem to be counting on the corporate coffers to tank the fines the court will impose due to their refusal to cooperate with the discovery process, and are hoping to secure a dismissal before the case can go to trial.

My guess would be that, should their efforts to get the case dismissed continue failing to bear fruit, CBS will attempt to make the problem go away and preserve Star Trek: Discovery by offering Mr. Abdin a confidential settlement including a significant payout in exchange for an unlimited license to the contested material and dismissal of the case with prejudice.  They don't want this case going to trial before a jury or even a bench trial, because they know they've been caught red-handed and the potential consequences of failing to defend a lawsuit like that could leave CBS hundreds of millions of dollars in the red between damages and unamortized costs from a now-un-continuable series.

 

 

40 minutes ago, JB0 said:

 Though I must admit "We promise not to sue you for getting ripped off by us. BTW, we're on vacation so bye." was pretty special too.

That's a pretty standard legal tactic, actually.  You'd think lawyers would be too mature and professional for "NO U"-level shenanigans... but you'd be wrong.  Variations on "it's at the frame shop" are also popular legal standbys for not producing documents when ordered.  So many of modern legal stratagems these days are breathtaking pettiness thinly disguised by logorrhea. 

FASA actually tried it in their copyright infringement beef with Harmony Gold USA back in the 90's.  They were actually stupid enough to follow through on it, though... and filed a lawsuit against Harmony Gold for using the Macross designs in merchandise when Harmony Gold refused to stop sending them cease-and-desists.  It backfired hilariously in court, resulting in the infamous not-so-confidential-anymore confidential settlement that made the designs Unseen and barred their franchise from using non-original designs in FASA's desperation to avoid the now-inevitable ruling against them on charges of serial copyright infringement.  (Part of their defense was actually based entirely on the "it's at the frame shop" strategy when they failed to produce their alleged license agreement with TCI, which predictably didn't work.)

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4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's a pretty standard legal tactic, actually.  You'd think lawyers would be too mature and professional for "NO U"-level shenanigans... but you'd be wrong.  Variations on "it's at the frame shop" are also popular legal standbys for not producing documents when ordered.  So many of modern legal stratagems these days are breathtaking pettiness thinly disguised by logorrhea. 

Honestly, I assumed CBS was just counting on the guy realizing he couldn't afford to fight CBS and taking any offer they made, no mattter how patronizing(or disappearing before they made an offer, given they successsfully stalled him for almost an entire year beforehand).

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3 hours ago, JB0 said:

Honestly, I assumed CBS was just counting on the guy realizing he couldn't afford to fight CBS and taking any offer they made, no mattter how patronizing(or disappearing before they made an offer, given they successsfully stalled him for almost an entire year beforehand).

That's the beauty of this kind of epic corporate f*ckup... if the case is solid enough, there are no shortage of lawyers willing to take a case like that on contingency for the possibility of a multi-million dollar payday if they win.

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From the look of the photos of location shooting this show is a steaming pile of Do Not Want.

If they wanted to do a story about a Starfleet admiral gone rogue why not Janeway?  She's known for going rogue.  Sometimes more than once in an episode.

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Why hello there puppy.

 

 

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Not really on-topic, but watching the 1981 Excalibur on TV right now and damn Patrick Stewart is apparently immortal. I thought he was old then but here we are 40 years later and he's still going strong at close to 80 years of age. 

No comment on Picard, but I do wish that if CBS was going to be so insistent on having Trek then they'd do it "right".

-b.

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7 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Not really on-topic, but watching the 1981 Excalibur on TV right now and damn Patrick Stewart is apparently immortal. I thought he was old then but here we are 40 years later and he's still going strong at close to 80 years of age. 

Him, Max von Sydow, a few others, never really looked young, they just sort of hit middle age fast and then paused.

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4 hours ago, UN Spacy said:

Why hello there puppy.

 

 

Picard sure looks like he’s ready to farm the ever-loving frakk out of those fields.

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2 hours ago, Mazinger said:

Him, Max von Sydow, a few others, never really looked young, they just sort of hit middle age fast and then paused.

They were all balancing out Micheal J Fox's perpetual childhood.

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7 hours ago, UN Spacy said:

Why hello there puppy.

 

 

Jean-Luc Picard and his new Number One look like they're headed out to clean up Number One's Number Two.

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3 hours ago, Mazinger said:

Him, Max von Sydow, a few others, never really looked young, they just sort of hit middle age fast and then paused.

 

1 hour ago, JB0 said:

They were all balancing out Micheal J Fox's perpetual childhood.

Right!

Need to find out their diet, and copy it.

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Jean-Luc Picard and his new Number One look like they're headed out to clean up Number One's Number Two.

:lol:

Also, just makes me wish for another TNG-era starship based series. And I never thought I'd say that because I (mostly) liked the Kelvin Universe Start Trek stuff, especially Star Trek and IMO the horribly underrated Star Trek: Beyond.

But oh well...

-b.

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If they could give us a Captain Pike show, with actual TOS style ships (but understanding the need for a more advanced look to the tech) I would be quite happy.

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6 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

 

Also, just makes me wish for another TNG-era starship based series. And I never thought I'd say that because I (mostly) liked the Kelvin Universe Start Trek stuff, especially Star Trek and IMO the horribly underrated Star Trek: Beyond.

But oh well...

-b.

I love the TNG era, but I've personally always wanted to see a show set 100 to 200 years after TNG.

Always thought it would be interesting to see how technology and the Federation have developed.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Thom said:

If they could give us a Captain Pike show, with actual TOS style ships (but understanding the need for a more advanced look to the tech) I would be quite happy.

Something like this...?

1497877299_NewEnterpriseprofile.jpg.1add3b65861ee10948278bbe3637dff0.jpg

1996770925_NewEnterprisebridgewide.jpg.ef88e916f163a000860f5aa4e9608631.jpg

1455861159_NewEnterprise.jpg.55ff050b700f86a979d43b204d9e08af.jpg

1224428512_NewEnterprisebridge.jpg.ba958e44a4286accb8eae24722426898.jpg

 

 

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7 hours ago, Graham said:

I love the TNG era, but I've personally always wanted to see a show set 100 to 200 years after TNG.

Always thought it would be interesting to see how technology and the Federation have developed.

 

 

Honestly I'd be okay with that too, just something to carry the story/mythos forward vs. revisiting the past over and over.

31 minutes ago, tekering said:

Something like this...?

*snip*

Annnnddd then you go and post cool pics like that - I'd watch it. IMHO Star Trek Discovery would have been much better received with those designs and the story that it implies vs. what CBS has put out so far.

-b.

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