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This series has piqued my interest  a lot more than STD (still haven't watched a single episode yet).  

Edited by peter

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On 10/5/2019 at 11:35 AM, UN Spacy said:

LETS DO THIS.

 

 

Let's not, and say we did.

I've come to loathe what Star Trek has become since Jar-Jar Abrams got his grubby mitts on it.  Star Trek is no longer the high concept, aspirational science fiction series I fell in love with as a kid.  Abrams and Kurtzman's obsession with making Star Trek into Star Wars has sucked the soul out of the series in the name of cramming in ever greater amounts of CG-heavy action sequences and all the hate and fear necessary to justify them.

This trailer has Seven of Nine, one of the most restrained and composed characters in Star Trek, dual-wielding disruptor rifles like she's Space Rambo.  That's some dumb sh*t on a level even the worst of the Star Trek novels never sunk to.  That right there really tells you how low Star Trek has sunk thanks to Abrams's efforts to turn Roddenberry's utopian vision of the future into another space war dystopia.

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

This trailer has Seven of Nine, one of the most restrained and composed characters in Star Trek, dual-wielding disruptor rifles like she's Space Rambo.  That's some dumb sh*t on a level even the worst of the Star Trek novels never sunk to. 

In fairness, Seven DID learn a lot about how to be human from Captain Janeway. That's not the best way to raise a stable and level-headed adult.

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On 10/5/2019 at 10:01 PM, David Hingtgen said:

I am hoping for at least one flash-back scene for Adm Picard, with an older, worn Ent-E or something...

Or maybe, "current day" scene with a REALLY old, worn-out Ambassador class, patrolling the backwaters of the Federation, that Picard and crew will run into...

Why would the 1701-E be worn out?  It was a brand new ship, and if they can keep the Excelsior class online for over a hundred years, why not the Sovereign Class?  OR is there some canon explanation that the 1701-E was destroyed at some point before this series?

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33 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Why would the 1701-E be worn out?  It was a brand new ship, and if they can keep the Excelsior class online for over a hundred years, why not the Sovereign Class?  OR is there some canon explanation that the 1701-E was destroyed at some point before this series?

Klingons - no not that the Klingons destroyed the ship.  The ship may not be around for the same reason the Klingons were changed from TOS to the movies, namely that the budget (and CGI) now allows the show to update the ship designs and not be forced to use old models for budgetary reasons.

Edited by Dynaman

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8 hours ago, JB0 said:

In fairness, Seven DID learn a lot about how to be human from Captain Janeway. That's not the best way to raise a stable and level-headed adult.

Even Janeway wasn't THAT much of a gung-ho psychopath.

That shot is just the stuff of terrible, terrible fanfiction... worse even than the time Shatner wrote a Star Trek novel in an attempt to end the Kirk vs. Picard debate in his own favor by having Kirk brought back to life only to destroy the Borg Collective.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Why would the 1701-E be worn out?  It was a brand new ship, and if they can keep the Excelsior class online for over a hundred years, why not the Sovereign Class?  OR is there some canon explanation that the 1701-E was destroyed at some point before this series?

Well, the Federation does tend to run ships named Enterprise rather harder than the rest of the fleet...

Of the thus-far seven Starfleet ships to bear the name, only the original Constitution-class USS Enterprise and the Excelsior-class USS Enterprise-B had lengthy service records.  Archer's NX-01 Enterprise was in service for less than a decade before she took a beating that put her beyond repair in the Romulan War, Kirk's Enterprise-A was only in service for a handful of years before all the old Constitution-class ships were decommissioned, Garrett's Enterprise-C was in service for about twelve years before Romulans blew it to scrap at Narendra III, and Picard's Enterprise-D was nine years old (only seven of which spent in actual service) when it was sunk by Lursa and B'Etor's Bird of Prey at Veridian III.  If Picard's Enterprise-E is still sailing in 2399, she'll have something on the order of 27 years on the clock... which would give her a plausible claim to second longest-serving Enterprise after the original NCC-1701, which had logged forty years before Kirk blew her up over Genesis.

Some fans are probably expecting the Enterprise-E to have been retired or sunk by now, since STO has the Enterprise-F already in service in the first decade of the 2400s.

 

4 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Klingons - no not that the Klingons destroyed the ship.  The ship may not be around for the same reason the Klingons were changed from TOS to the movies, namely that the budget (and CGI) now allows the show to update the ship designs and not be forced to use old models for budgetary reasons.

Maybe they did.  One of the lazier recurring plot threads in Star Trek ever since the Federation's brief war with the Klingons in DS9 is a breakdown of diplomatic relations with the Klingon Empire that results in yet another shooting war.

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Even Janeway wasn't THAT much of a gung-ho psychopath.

That shot is just the stuff of terrible, terrible fanfiction... worse even than the time Shatner wrote a Star Trek novel in an attempt to end the Kirk vs. Picard debate in his own favor by having Kirk brought back to life only to destroy the Borg Collective.

 

 

Well, the Federation does tend to run ships named Enterprise rather harder than the rest of the fleet...

Of the thus-far seven Starfleet ships to bear the name, only the original Constitution-class USS Enterprise and the Excelsior-class USS Enterprise-B had lengthy service records.  Archer's NX-01 Enterprise was in service for less than a decade before she took a beating that put her beyond repair in the Romulan War, Kirk's Enterprise-A was only in service for a handful of years before all the old Constitution-class ships were decommissioned, Garrett's Enterprise-C was in service for about twelve years before Romulans blew it to scrap at Narendra III, and Picard's Enterprise-D was nine years old (only seven of which spent in actual service) when it was sunk by Lursa and B'Etor's Bird of Prey at Veridian III.  If Picard's Enterprise-E is still sailing in 2399, she'll have something on the order of 27 years on the clock... which would give her a plausible claim to second longest-serving Enterprise after the original NCC-1701, which had logged forty years before Kirk blew her up over Genesis.

Some fans are probably expecting the Enterprise-E to have been retired or sunk by now, since STO has the Enterprise-F already in service in the first decade of the 2400s.

 

Maybe they did.  One of the lazier recurring plot threads in Star Trek ever since the Federation's brief war with the Klingons in DS9 is a breakdown of diplomatic relations with the Klingon Empire that results in yet another shooting war.

Yeah, I’d much prefer the Enterprise E to still be operational in this series. Get some life out of these ships for once.

Chris

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The short service life of NCC-1701 (x)s has always bothered me.  The retirement of the Constitution Class spaceframe makes some sense, but for the A-D, the short service lives make no sense, when other ships of the line have service lives of over 100 years.  Now, I was not sad to see the D go up, I never liked the design, but its destruction was a just a lazy way to get a shiny new enterprise spun up for the next movie.  Also, how the F would Picard be granted command of the E, when he was the one who lost the D?  The whole command crew should have been split up and sent to different ships, but that is an argument for another day, along with the horrid career and rank progression of Enterprise Command Level Officers.

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9 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

The short service life of NCC-1701 (x)s has always bothered me.  The retirement of the Constitution Class spaceframe makes some sense, but for the A-D, the short service lives make no sense, when other ships of the line have service lives of over 100 years.  Now, I was not sad to see the D go up, I never liked the design, but its destruction was a just a lazy way to get a shiny new enterprise spun up for the next movie.  Also, how the F would Picard be granted command of the E, when he was the one who lost the D?  The whole command crew should have been split up and sent to different ships, but that is an argument for another day, along with the horrid career and rank progression of Enterprise Command Level Officers.

IF you want to get real about it....the way Captains in Trek stay with ships for SOOOO long is really odd. Even in Wartime, skippers are rotated off of ships regularly, just look up CV-6 Enterprise’s history on Wikipedia, she changed captains regularly. 

Maybe a cruise or 2 then on to a new command. With the VAST amount of officers Starfleet has, that would make far more sense to give career progression opportunities to good people. Given the nature of Star Fleet I can understand a longer assignment for a deployment....maybe not the length of Kirks 5 year mission, but a year maybe 2 then back to port for repairs, upgrades, ect and a new command staff would make far more sense. Like you said, the stagnation of the command staff is appalling, and purely done for TV purposes......but it really does make no sense.

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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3 minutes ago, Dobber said:

IF you want to get real about it....the way Captains in Trek stay with ships for SOOOO long is really odd. Even in Wartime, skippers are rotated off of ships regularly, just look up CV-6 Enterprise’s history on Wikipedia, she changed captains regularly. 

Maybe a cruise or 2 then on to a new command. With the VAST amount of officers Starfleet has, that would make far more sense to give career progression opportunities to good people. Given the nature of Star Fleet I can understand a longer assignment for a deployment....maybe not the length of Kirks 5 year mission, but a year maybe 2 then back to port for repairs, upgrades, ect and a new command staff would make far more sense. Like you said, the stagnation of the command staff is appalling, and purely done for TV purposes......but it really does make no sense.

Chris

100% agree.  One also has to wonder why Picard was given the flagship after the loss of his previous command 9 years earlier.  What happened in those intervening years that made SF command think he was Flagship Captain material?  Also, the 1701-D is a "flagship" yet carries no flag level officers (Admirals).  I know it was for TV budgetary reasons, but it would have made far more sense if the 1701-D often hosted a fleet admiral, who called the D home, but rotated around other ships.

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I never really questioned the longevity of crew assignments in Trek, because at least in the initial years, the premise was that you were going to be in deep space for an extended period.  It never really happened that way of course, because the ships were always being ordered back and forth to deal with this or that issue back on Earth, but a "five year mission" was a nice round number to start with.

By the TNG era though, think of how many "civilians" were on board the ship.  They did a decent job of de-emphasizing the military aspects of Starfleet, to the point where it made sense to stay with the same crew for a longer period of time.  Given the negative aspects usually associated with military families moving all over the place, it doesn't surprise me that they tried to avoid that particular trope.  I can also see it a bit as an outgrowth of the idea of longer life spans, and a slower pace of life in general.

Command staff aside though, the rest of the crew did seem to rotate with fair regularity, just from casting changes over the course of the series.  The senior officers just seemed to enjoy a lot of freedom to pick and choose where they wanted to go, to the point where it felt purposefully contrary to actual military practice.

 

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Why do we have to see THE E?  Isn’t it enough that a Sovereign is still bumping about out there without it having to be Enterprise?  Besides, if you zoom in real close on the hologram they forgot to remove the 1701-D registry behind the main shuttle bay.  So there’s your Ent D.

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7 minutes ago, Mommar said:

Why do we have to see THE E?  Isn’t it enough that a Sovereign is still bumping about out there without it having to be Enterprise?  Besides, if you zoom in real close on the hologram they forgot to remove the 1701-D registry behind the main shuttle bay.  So there’s your Ent D.

Totally don’t need to see the E. Just saying that IF the Enterprise makes an appearance let it just be the E-E. 

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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3 hours ago, Dobber said:

Yeah, I’d much prefer the Enterprise E to still be operational in this series. Get some life out of these ships for once.

Same.  Frankly, I'd be surprised if the subject of the Enterprise-E's disposition doesn't come up at some point early in the Star Trek: Picard given that it was Picard's last command, and one of the things that was done in the tie-in comic that was used to set up all the Kelvin timeline nonsense prominently featured a revived Data as the Captain of the Enterprise-E when Romulus was destroyed by the Hobus supernova.

Unless Bad Reboot is planning to ditch their own groundwork for the Kelvin timeline in the bargain, the subject of who commands the Enterprise-E really ought to come up at some point given how important Data is apparently going to be.

 

3 hours ago, Knight26 said:

The short service life of NCC-1701 (x)s has always bothered me.  The retirement of the Constitution Class spaceframe makes some sense, but for the A-D, the short service lives make no sense, when other ships of the line have service lives of over 100 years.

To be fair, their service lives aren't intentionally short... ships named Enterprise tend to attract trouble and meet violent ends, from the very first Enterprise in Starfleet.  That's the reason there's such high turnover in Enterprises relative to other ships of the same class.

The actual origin of the Enterprise-A isn't completely clear given that it tends to vary by the author, but most tend to agree that the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-A) was actually a pre-existing Constitution-class refit that was renamed near the end of its refit when it was tapped to become the next Enterprise.  She was, in all likelihood, of comparable age to the Enterprise Jim Kirk self-destructed over Genesis.  NCC-1701-B's fate is not elaborated upon officially, but in the novel verse she disappeared and was presumed lost with all hands, suspected to be a result of her crew succumbing to an alien virus.  NCC-1701-C and NCC-1701-D both went down fighting.

Attrition from the Dominion War likely helped shepherd a number of older classes out of service when they were lost in combat or proved to be unequal to the task of continuing to defend the Federation.  The Galaxy-class fared pretty well, but there were never all that many of them to begin with.

 

3 hours ago, Dobber said:

IF you want to get real about it....the way Captains in Trek stay with ships for SOOOO long is really odd. Even in Wartime, skippers are rotated off of ships regularly, just look up CV-6 Enterprise’s history on Wikipedia, she changed captains regularly.

Not when you consider that many of these ships we're shown are not patrol vessels, but long-range exploration and science ships surveying on or beyond the Federation's borders.  Warp drive isn't actually all that fast, so many of those ships are literally months, even YEARS, from a place where they could readily rotate personnel out.  The Enterprises are also prestige commands, it might be more typical for captains to be rotated when ships are closer to home or less prestigious, but the Enterprise is Starfleet's number one sledgehammer for solving any problem that resists less extreme measures, so keeping the most experienced captain with a top flight crew makes a certain amount of sense.

 

 

3 hours ago, Knight26 said:

100% agree.  One also has to wonder why Picard was given the flagship after the loss of his previous command 9 years earlier.  What happened in those intervening years that made SF command think he was Flagship Captain material?  Also, the 1701-D is a "flagship" yet carries no flag level officers (Admirals).  I know it was for TV budgetary reasons, but it would have made far more sense if the 1701-D often hosted a fleet admiral, who called the D home, but rotated around other ships.

Or for Jean-Luc to hold the rank of Fleet Captain... though there are some incidents that suggest that as captain of Enterprise, Jean-Luc Picard was more or less the most senior Starfleet captain, or at least the one with the most clout.

 

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9 hours ago, Knight26 said:

Also, how the F would Picard be granted command of the E, when he was the one who lost the D? 

Tradition set by admiral Kirk when he stole the 1701, took it to a forbidden planet, blew it up, and came home with a timenapped marine biologist and some whales. 

I mean, I'm surprised he wasn't shot down the instant he showed up in the Sol system in a friggin' Bird of Prey, even granting that Starfleet had other issues at the time.

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I always heard the story for the 1701-A was that they rechristened the Yorktown as the next Enterprise.  Don't know the original source, but that was the flavor text on all the old AMT kit instructions.  The early scenes from ST:V would seem to indicate it was fresh out of the same sort of heavy refit that the original ship went through before TMP.

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8 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I always heard the story for the 1701-A was that they rechristened the Yorktown as the next Enterprise.  [...]  The early scenes from ST:V would seem to indicate it was fresh out of the same sort of heavy refit that the original ship went through before TMP.

Yeah, the Yorktown is the one most often cited for that... 

 

Unrelated, but looking at that trailer... either someone found Noonien Soong's safe deposit box or Bruce Maddox has been a busy, busy boy over the last thirty years.

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I read somewhere... maybe in Mr. Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise... that it was the USS Ti Ho that had been rechristened. 

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1 hour ago, Sildani said:

I read somewhere... maybe in Mr. Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise... that it was the USS Ti Ho that had been rechristened. 

Yup, I remember that too, it was Mr. Scott’s Guide great book if you love the Refit design like I do. I also heard the Yorktown as well but I forget the source. Either way, the E-A is a rechristened Connie likely straight out of overhaul and Refit.

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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7 hours ago, JB0 said:

Tradition set by admiral Kirk when he stole the 1701, took it to a forbidden planet, blew it up, and came home with a timenapped marine biologist and some whales. 

I mean, I'm surprised he wasn't shot down the instant he showed up in the Sol system in a friggin' Bird of Prey, even granting that Starfleet had other issues at the time.

You're really not granting Starfleet anything.  Nothing in the Sol system functioned after the whale ship flew by.  They weren't just "otherwise engaged."  Nothing fricking worked and they were on the verge of losing the Earth.  Kirk saved the entire planet from extinction from said whale ship so they called it a wash.  Human/Earth existence for stealing a starship.  Also, that Marine Biologist invited herself when she tossed herself into the transporter beam, he did not kidnap her.

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3 hours ago, Mommar said:

You're really not granting Starfleet anything.  Nothing in the Sol system functioned after the whale ship flew by.  They weren't just "otherwise engaged."  Nothing fricking worked and they were on the verge of losing the Earth.  Kirk saved the entire planet from extinction from said whale ship so they called it a wash.  Human/Earth existence for stealing a starship.  Also, that Marine Biologist invited herself when she tossed herself into the transporter beam, he did not kidnap her.

The Yorktown was floating dead in the water when the whale ship came.  The captain mumbled something about rigging a solar sail to survive (this was in the movie), but it probably didn't work, everyone on board died, then they re-badged the ship the -A for Kirk and friends.

Edited by peter

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3 hours ago, Mommar said:

You're really not granting Starfleet anything.  Nothing in the Sol system functioned after the whale ship flew by.  They weren't just "otherwise engaged."  Nothing fricking worked and they were on the verge of losing the Earth.  Kirk saved the entire planet from extinction from said whale ship so they called it a wash.  Human/Earth existence for stealing a starship.  Also, that Marine Biologist invited herself when she tossed herself into the transporter beam, he did not kidnap her.

I still wish they had bothered to give a nod to the temporal shenanigans she may have created by joyriding into the future.  Would have been funny if they got back, and suddenly a bunch of Starfleet staff were replaced by different actors, and no one had ever heard of the person we'd previously seen there. :p 

I don't believe they meant for everyone on board the ships affected by that probe to die though, since I think I recall the lights coming back on for ships in orbit as it was leaving.

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4 hours ago, Dobber said:

Yup, I remember that too, it was Mr. Scott’s Guide great book if you love the Refit design like I do. I also heard the Yorktown as well but I forget the source. Either way, the E-A is a rechristened Connie likely straight out of overhaul and Refit.

By all accounts, most of the ships named Enterprise was originally named something else and were either rechristened or had their names changed during construction... and it's been indicated in some of the supplemental materials that most name reuses are rechristening ships that were being built under other names.  Picard's Enterprise-E was originally built with the expectation of being commissioned USS Honorius before the Enterprise-D went down over Veridian III.

 

28 minutes ago, peter said:

The Yorktown was floating dead in the water when the whale ship came.  The captain mumbled something about rigging a solar sail to survive (this was in the movie), but it probably didn't work, everyone on board died, then they re-badged the ship the -A for Kirk and friends.

That wasn't the Yorktown, that was the Saratoga... a Miranda-class ship that was one of several redresses of the ILM Reliant large studio model built for Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan.

Its crew didn't die, and its main power was restored when the whale probe left at the end of the film.

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16 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That wasn't the Yorktown, that was the Saratoga... a Miranda-class ship that was one of several redresses of the ILM Reliant large studio model built for Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan.

Its crew didn't die, and its main power was restored when the whale probe left at the end of the film.

You're thinking of two different scenes.  The Saratoga was seen on screen in the movies opening.  The Yorktown was never seen, only the Captain is seen relaying a message on the view screen at Starfleet command. 

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39 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

By all accounts, most of the ships named Enterprise was originally named something else and were either rechristened or had their names changed during construction... and it's been indicated in some of the supplemental materials that most name reuses are rechristening ships that were being built under other names.  Picard's Enterprise-E was originally built with the expectation of being commissioned USS Honorius before the Enterprise-D went down over Veridian III.

 

That wasn't the Yorktown, that was the Saratoga... a Miranda-class ship that was one of several redresses of the ILM Reliant large studio model built for Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan.

Its crew didn't die, and its main power was restored when the whale probe left at the end of the film.

Yeah, what was happening to the Yorktown happened off-screen.  Was it confirmed that the crew survived?

 

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20 minutes ago, levzloi said:

You're thinking of two different scenes.  The Saratoga was seen on screen in the movies opening.  The Yorktown was never seen, only the Captain is seen relaying a message on the view screen at Starfleet command. 

This^^

First Female starship captain shown in Trek too. 

 

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29 minutes ago, levzloi said:

You're thinking of two different scenes.  The Saratoga was seen on screen in the movies opening.  The Yorktown was never seen, only the Captain is seen relaying a message on the view screen at Starfleet command. 

Ah, you're correct... my mistake.

 

7 minutes ago, peter said:

Yeah, what was happening to the Yorktown happened off-screen.  Was it confirmed that the crew survived?

The novelization of Star Trek IV did have the disabled ships survive, and Tuvok's father did at least one tour aboard the Yorktown around that period (c.2293)... so presumably the ship and at least part of its crew survived.

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53 minutes ago, Dobber said:

This^^

First Female starship captain shown in Trek too. 

 

Also played Geordie LaForge's mom

 

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45 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Ah, you're correct... my mistake.

 

The novelization of Star Trek IV did have the disabled ships survive, and Tuvok's father did at least one tour aboard the Yorktown around that period (c.2293)... so presumably the ship and at least part of its crew survived.

I think the idea that the Yorktown was re-christened Enterprise came from my ERTL/AMT models.  Don't think it is stated anywhere in canon that it actually happened.  

Guess it would have been a pretty morbid way to commemorate the loss of Yorktown's entire crew by renaming the ship Enterprise.

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Slight subject change, what do people think of the short Trek's Trailer:  Archer vs Tribbles.  I am onboard, looks like it'll be a hoot.

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4 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Slight subject change, what do people think of the short Trek's Trailer:  Archer vs Tribbles.  I am onboard, looks like it'll be a hoot.

The Short Treks are, lamentably, the only thing worth half a damn that CBS is actually producing for Star Trek... by dint of not being gritty, grimdark, action trash like Star Trek: Discovery and what we've seen of Star Trek: Picard.

It's rather frustrating, since "The Brightest Star" is the closest they've come to a proper bloody Star Trek story since Enterprise went off the air and they're still only managing about a 50% success rate with "actually feels like Star Trek" with 'em.

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2 hours ago, Knight26 said:

Slight subject change, what do people think of the short Trek's Trailer:  Archer vs Tribbles.  I am onboard, looks like it'll be a hoot.

I agree....Looks fun. 

Chris

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9 hours ago, Mommar said:

You're really not granting Starfleet anything.  Nothing in the Sol system functioned after the whale ship flew by.  They weren't just "otherwise engaged."  Nothing fricking worked and they were on the verge of losing the Earth.  Kirk saved the entire planet from extinction from said whale ship so they called it a wash.  Human/Earth existence for stealing a starship.  Also, that Marine Biologist invited herself when she tossed herself into the transporter beam, he did not kidnap her.

Fair enough. 's been a while, and I didn't recall that the probe was disabling everything in the system. One of the few good explanations for why a wanted criminal can fly into the capital system in an enemy state's fighter.

 

I was exagerating the "timenapping" for comic effect.

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