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Calibre Wings 1/72 diecast VF-1


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46 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Sure, but only one can be valid, in terms of the actual canon or a collectible's claims to any level of authenticity.  In the case of Calibre Wings, the modex blunder shows that they really weren't all that concerned about the "canon".  I would be curious if any of the available data actually sheds any light on the actual "home base" for Max and Millia's VF-1J's...which, based on the timeline of events depicted on the show, seems to point to it being the Prometheus.

Another thing to consider is the number of VF-1's that were aboard the SDF-1 on launch day vs. the number stationed on the Prometheus.  As I said, the Prometheus and Deadelus were not originally to be part of the SDF-1.    In either case, 2 VF-1J's were grabbed and re-assigned to Max and Millia...so, unless there were already a blue and a red VF-1J onboard either the Prometheus or SDF-1....or possibly salvaged from the wreckage of the ARMDs......someone had to have applied either the "Prometheus" or "SDF-1" markings once they were re-painted, thus there could only be one valid marking.....calling @Seto Kaiba

The SDF-1 was resupplied on Earth also so they may have been badged something else entirely until being repainted/re-used. I guess my real point here is... it's a total nitpick because it's easily shrugged off as a 'sure, maybe'. The numbers on the other hand, they're just wrong. 

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55 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

calling @Seto Kaiba

... never expected to get summoned to the CaliberWings thread, what with me being vehemently opposed to supporting any Harmony Gold licensee on principle.

 

55 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

In the case of Calibre Wings, the modex blunder shows that they really weren't all that concerned about the "canon".

It's not as boneheaded as it could've been, I suppose... Max and Milia's VF-1Js are the only two main character VF-1s that never had any modex number attached to them in an official or semi-official source.  Applying the same number to both is a boneheaded mistake, sure as sure, but at least they didn't compound it by also contradicting an official number.  They could have literally picked any two numbers and been OK... 

(For the record, Roy's VF-1S had 001, Hikaru's original VF-1J had 023, Max's VF-1A had 111, and Kakizaki's 112... except in DYRL, where Hikaru, Kakizaki, and Max were 011, 012, and 013 respectively.)

 

55 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

I would be curious if any of the available data actually sheds any light on the actual "home base" for Max and Millia's VF-1J's...which, based on the timeline of events depicted on the show, seems to point to it being the Prometheus.

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 "Stratosphere Wings" asserts that Max and Milia's VF-1Js were stationed aboard the SDF-1 Macross itself, rather than the Prometheus

It attempts to justify this, and other things, by asserting that the Spacy leveraged the PR importance of the first interstellar marriage by relieving Max of his regular duties and putting him and his new bride in a new independent unit codenamed "Love Birds", which was based directly aboard the Macross.  They fulfilled a variety of duties, including acting as a mobile reserve force to leverage their super-ace talents during the war.  The lack of a modex on either aircraft seems to be intentional, as they're outside regular force organization.  In later "Love Birds" paintjobs, like the one for the VF-4, Max and Milia's modex numbers were 01 and 02 respectively.

 

55 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Another thing to consider is the number of VF-1's that were aboard the SDF-1 on launch day vs. the number stationed on the Prometheus.

212 and 150 respectively.

 

55 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

In either case, 2 VF-1J's were grabbed and re-assigned to Max and Millia...so, unless there were already a blue and a red VF-1J onboard either the Prometheus or SDF-1....or possibly salvaged from the wreckage of the ARMDs......someone had to have applied either the "Prometheus" or "SDF-1" markings once they were re-painted, thus there could only be one valid marking.....calling @Seto Kaiba

Exactly where they came from is unclear... but Master File at least claims that they were deliberately painted for Max and Milia's personal use.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Unless they were stationed on another ship or base, either on land or in space, I think Prometheus still fits the bill around the end of the series.  I'm trying to remember whether the episode with the fire-suppression ordnance was launched from that ship or not.

Permanently ground-based naval aircraft do tend to be marked with the name or acronym of the base (NAWCAD and NSAWC come to mind), but any squadron attached to a ship will carry that ship's name between cruises.  Given the way the SDF-1 landed, it wasn't going to be able to operate as ground-based fighter platform anyhow, so the fighters would probably just remain stationed on the Prometheus, whether it was mobile or not.

It's possible the SDF-1 kept a compliment of fighters that just launched in gerwalk/battroid, but I don't ever recall seeing it.

Edited by Chronocidal
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Aren't there a lot of VF-1s in the first few episodes that hangar in the SDF-1? Even Roy's valk would be an example. Misa is in charge of them all from the bridge of the SDF.

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2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... never expected to get summoned to the CaliberWings thread, what with me being vehemently opposed to supporting any Harmony Gold licensee on principle.

 

It's not as boneheaded as it could've been, I suppose... Max and Milia's VF-1Js are the only two main character VF-1s that never had any modex number attached to them in an official or semi-official source.  Applying the same number to both is a boneheaded mistake, sure as sure, but at least they didn't compound it by also contradicting an official number.  They could have literally picked any two numbers and been OK... 

(For the record, Roy's VF-1S had 001, Hikaru's original VF-1J had 023, Max's VF-1A had 111, and Kakizaki's 112... except in DYRL, where Hikaru, Kakizaki, and Max were 011, 012, and 013 respectively.)

 

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 "Stratosphere Wings" asserts that Max and Milia's VF-1Js were stationed aboard the SDF-1 Macross itself, rather than the Prometheus

It attempts to justify this, and other things, by asserting that the Spacy leveraged the PR importance of the first interstellar marriage by relieving Max of his regular duties and putting him and his new bride in a new independent unit codenamed "Love Birds", which was based directly aboard the Macross.  They fulfilled a variety of duties, including acting as a mobile reserve force to leverage their super-ace talents during the war.  The lack of a modex on either aircraft seems to be intentional, as they're outside regular force organization.  In later "Love Birds" paintjobs, like the one for the VF-4, Max and Milia's modex numbers were 01 and 02 respectively.

 

212 and 150 respectively.

 

Exactly where they came from is unclear... but Master File at least claims that they were deliberately painted for Max and Milia's personal use.

Thanks @Seto Kaiba I knew you would be able to shed some light into this discussion....

I know that the MF books are not "canon", but I am willing to accept their take on it for the sake of this discussion.....with that said, I am actually surprised that they made the decision to contradict the long-time tradition of every major "player" in the VF-1 game by asserting that M&M's personal VF-1Js are actually stationed aboard the SDF-1 proper.

Score another one for Harmony Gold?  They seem to now have cornered the market on properly painted TV-styled RMS-1 missiles and the location of VF-1 squadrons...LOL! 

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53 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

It's possible the SDF-1 kept a compliment of fighters that just launched in gerwalk/battroid, but I don't ever recall seeing it.

There definitely were some squadrons based on the SDF-1 from day one (which includes launch day), the question was whether the M&M VF-1J's were stationed on the SDF-1 or Prometheus....

Here is some lineart showing VF-1's entering the SDF-1 directly, rather than via the Prometheus....

macross-hangars.gif

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8 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Remember that the ARMD's were originally going to be attached to the SDF-1 in the TV version, just like in the DYRL version...not the Daedelus or Prometheus....I can only assume that they were also equipped to deploy VF-1's just as seen in DYRL....wonder if @Seto Kaiba would be able to shed some light on this?

Hey @Seto Kaiba any insight on whether or not the TV ARMDs have the capacity to launch VF-1s just like their DYRL counterparts?  I would think that the answer is yes, but who knows...

I do recall the scene from episode 1 of SDFM just after the Zentradi shoot up the ARMDs during their first encounter....we see various wreckage floating in space, including the infamous Spider Bug and a VF-1....so that would mean that it had been stationed aboard one of those ARMD....right?  If so, how is it deployed?  And why were the SF-3A Lancer II's deployed during that initial encounter instead of the VF-1's or both? 

I think an OVA telling the story of the Lancer vs. VF-1 Valkyrie would be an interesting watch.  What was the thinking behind the need for the Lancer II?  Clearly the Lancer II was a failure from inception.

 

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1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

I know that the MF books are not "canon", but I am willing to accept their take on it for the sake of this discussion.....with that said, I am actually surprised that they made the decision to contradict the long-time tradition of every major "player" in the VF-1 game by asserting that M&M's personal VF-1Js are actually stationed aboard the SDF-1 proper.

Variable Fighter Master File initially drew pretty heavily on the old Sky Angels VF-1 tech manual for that kind of info and dredged up quite a few obscure and dated factoids.

 

Quote

Score another one for Harmony Gold?  They seem to now have cornered the market on properly painted TV-styled RMS-1 missiles and the location of VF-1 squadrons...LOL! 

Well, to be fair, they do essentially just copy-paste from Macross fansites for this kind of thing.

(They've ended up accidentally referencing a few DYRL-specific things with all that copy-pasting, like the UUM-7 micro-missile pods ending up in the RT stats because Macross sites don't differentiate between TV and movie specs.)

Master File's take is that the Prometheus was only home to about 1/2 of the total VF-1 complement the SDF-1 Macross was carrying.  Variable Fighter Master File: SDF-1 Macross VF-1 Squadrons asserts that there were 14 squadrons in total with 7 stationed on the Prometheus and 7 on the Macross itself.  

Spoiler

Specifically, it asserts the SDF-1 Macross was home to SVF-6, SVF-13, SVF-22, SVF-32 Shooting Stars, SVF-38 Green Arrows, SVF-44 Gunpod Fighters, and SVF-48 Blue Hawks.

The Prometheus was, in its view, home to the SVF-1 Skulls, SVF-2 Sonicbirds, SVF-20 Outlaws, SVF-28 Night Riders, SVF-37, SVF-63, and SVF-68.

The book seems to have forgotten the SVF-26 Cavaliers, who actually appear in the series.

 

49 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Hey @Seto Kaiba any insight on whether or not the TV ARMDs have the capacity to launch VF-1s just like their DYRL counterparts?  I would think that the answer is yes, but who knows...

Yes, they were.  We see a VF-1A aboard ARMD-01 when Vrlitwhai's shooting it up in Super Dimension Fortress Macross's first episode, and the oldest version of the ARMD-class spec says their normal aircraft complement is 78 SF-3A Lancer IIs, 270 QF-3000E Ghosts, and 18 VF-1A Valkyries.

(The postwar complement for ARMD-9 thru 16 in the same book - Sky Angels - is given as 96 Regults, 120 Ghosts, and 24 VF-1As.)

 

Quote

If so, how is it deployed?  And why were the SF-3A Lancer II's deployed during that initial encounter instead of the VF-1's or both? 

Possibly the same as the DYRL? version.  The reason the UN Spacy used SF-3A Lancer IIs in the initial encounter was because they made up the bulk of the aircraft complement that the Harlan J. Niven1 (ARMD-01) and Invincible (ARMD-02) carried, and contrary to their fighter designation they're basically attackers meant for anti-warship hit and run strikes.  The Lancer II's basically a manned missile, with a 1500kN-class (2255kN-class at max power) thermonuclear rocket engine providing propulsion.  It's got a pair of 750MW beam cannons (that's 150x as powerful as the VF-1's lasers) and six light thermonuclear reaction missiles.  It's designed to strafe enemy ships at 7km/s or so and then cold cruise for recovery.  The unit even comes equipped with a cold sleep system in the event the pilot misses recovery on the first orbit.  It's powerful, but it's all-or-nothing on its one attack run.

The VF-1s would've been kind of a poor choice since the Super Pack was still in operational evaluation back then, and the way thermonuclear reaction turbine engines work a VF-1 consumes its fuel exponentially2 faster in space... giving it only a few minutes of burn time at maximum thrust before its tanks are dry unless augmented by bolt-on tanks.  Without thermonuclear reaction warheads of their own, or at least the Strike Pack that didn't even exist yet in-universe, they wouldn't have made much of a dent.

 

Quote

I think an OVA telling the story of the Lancer vs. VF-1 Valkyrie would be an interesting watch.  What was the thinking behind the need for the Lancer II?  Clearly the Lancer II was a failure from inception.

They were never really rivals... the Lancer II was a product of the sort of gleeful insanity that comes with a golden age of technological development.  It's basically the UN Spacy's riff on the Bachem Ba 349.

 

1. One of the more shameless nods in the oldest material, the Earth Unification Government's first prime minister was Harlan J. Niven... named for Harlon Jay Ellison and Larry Niven.  He was assassinated in office, but ARMD-01 was named in his honor.  His successor, Robert A. Rhysling, is named for Robert Heinlein and the Rhysling Award and had ARMD-14 named in his honor.

2. 4,200x faster.  The same 1,410L of hydrogen slush that confers 700 hours of continuous operating time in atmosphere is burned through in a mere 10 minutes of maximum thrust in space because plasma from the compact thermonuclear reactor is used as a propellant for space flight to simplify the fuel system and maximize its capacity.  This is why conformal fuel tanks became so important for space operations.  Master File claims the SDF-1 Macross used a stopgap to extend range slightly, installing fuel bladders in the unused-in-space main intakes and BLCS sub-intakes.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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30 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Variable Fighter Master File initially drew pretty heavily on the old Sky Angels VF-1 tech manual for that kind of info and dredged up quite a few obscure and dated factoids.

 

Well, to be fair, they do essentially just copy-paste from Macross fansites for this kind of thing.

(They've ended up accidentally referencing a few DYRL-specific things with all that copy-pasting, like the UUM-7 micro-missile pods ending up in the RT stats because Macross sites don't differentiate between TV and movie specs.)

Master File's take is that the Prometheus was only home to about 1/2 of the total VF-1 complement the SDF-1 Macross was carrying.  Variable Fighter Master File: SDF-1 Macross VF-1 Squadrons asserts that there were 14 squadrons in total with 7 stationed on the Prometheus and 7 on the Macross itself.  

  Hide contents

Specifically, it asserts the SDF-1 Macross was home to SVF-6, SVF-13, SVF-22, SVF-32 Shooting Stars, SVF-38 Green Arrows, SVF-44 Gunpod Fighters, and SVF-48 Blue Hawks.

The Prometheus was, in its view, home to the SVF-1 Skulls, SVF-2 Sonicbirds, SVF-20 Outlaws, SVF-28 Night Riders, SVF-37, SVF-63, and SVF-68.

The book seems to have forgotten the SVF-26 Cavaliers, who actually appear in the series.

 

Yes, they were.  We see a VF-1A aboard ARMD-01 when Vrlitwhai's shooting it up in Super Dimension Fortress Macross's first episode, and the oldest version of the ARMD-class spec says their normal aircraft complement is 78 SF-3A Lancer IIs, 270 QF-3000E Ghosts, and 18 VF-1A Valkyries.

(The postwar complement for ARMD-9 thru 16 in the same book - Sky Angels - is given as 96 Regults, 120 Ghosts, and 24 VF-1As.)

 

Possibly the same as the DYRL? version.  The reason the UN Spacy used SF-3A Lancer IIs in the initial encounter was because they made up the bulk of the aircraft complement that the Harlan J. Niven1 (ARMD-01) and Invincible (ARMD-02) carried, and contrary to their fighter designation they're basically attackers meant for anti-warship hit and run strikes.  The Lancer II's basically a manned missile, with a 1500kN-class (2255kN-class at max power) thermonuclear rocket engine providing propulsion.  It's got a pair of 750MW beam cannons (that's 150x as powerful as the VF-1's lasers) and six light thermonuclear reaction missiles.  It's designed to strafe enemy ships at 7km/s or so and then cold cruise for recovery.  The unit even comes equipped with a cold sleep system in the event the pilot misses recovery on the first orbit.  It's powerful, but it's all-or-nothing on its one attack run.

The VF-1s would've been kind of a poor choice since the Super Pack was still in operational evaluation back then, and the way thermonuclear reaction turbine engines work a VF-1 consumes its fuel exponentially2 faster in space... giving it only a few minutes of burn time at maximum thrust before its tanks are dry unless augmented by bolt-on tanks.  Without thermonuclear reaction warheads of their own, or at least the Strike Pack that didn't even exist yet in-universe, they wouldn't have made much of a dent.

 

They were never really rivals... the Lancer II was a product of the sort of gleeful insanity that comes with a golden age of technological development.  It's basically the UN Spacy's riff on the Bachem Ba 349.

 

1. One of the more shameless nods in the oldest material, the Earth Unification Government's first prime minister was Harlan J. Niven... named for Harlon Jay Ellison and Larry Niven.  He was assassinated in office, but ARMD-01 was named in his honor.  His successor, Robert A. Rhysling, is named for Robert Heinlein and the Rhysling Award and had ARMD-14 named in his honor.

2. 4,200x faster.  The same 1,410L of hydrogen slush that confers 700 hours of continuous operating time in atmosphere is burned through in a mere 10 minutes of maximum thrust in space because plasma from the compact thermonuclear reactor is used as a propellant for space flight to simplify the fuel system and maximize its capacity.  This is why conformal fuel tanks became so important for space operations.  Master File claims the SDF-1 Macross used a stopgap to extend range slightly, installing fuel bladders in the unused-in-space main intakes and BLCS sub-intakes.

Thanks!  Always appreciate your encyclopedic knowledge of the Macross-verse!

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10 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 

(For the record, ... , Hikaru's original VF-1J had 023, ...

 

Oooh! A holy grail valk?? with 023 modex...

Quick, Bandai, Arcadia..jump on it! :p:D

 

Spoiler
 
Bandai - Will
Arcadia- Carlton
0
 Advanced issue found
 
 
Spoiler

 

 

Edited by seti88
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  • 1 month later...
22 hours ago, Dobber said:

Calibre’s next in the “Dream Cats” lineup of Fictional F-14 schemes is Shin’s F-14 from Macross Zero. 
 

B60831CE-DF06-4987-8BD4-BD3A31504A4E.thumb.png.c106ab0eb2cbf5f8d75c45b2d24b040e.png

I would love it if Hachette was able to release this scheme in the AFC 1/100 line.

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5 hours ago, sh9000 said:

I would love it if Hachette was able to release this scheme in the AFC 1/100 line.

Yeah, that would be sweet. I'm not going to buy another Calibre...I'm "happy" with just the one I have.

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Yeh, I've been impressed with their actual USN releases, but the Robotech one I have is by far the lowest quality of the bunch.  There are still a bunch of other markings sets I'd love to pick up (something to replace my lackluster Century Wings VF-84 "Final Countdown" scheme would be appreciated <_<), but I've had a lot of other priorities, and they've covered my other favorites.

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Calibre also just announced their next VF-1....a Canon Fodder VF-1a!

i want the Max and Miriya but the model numbers just killed it for me but the CF 1A is an easy win. 
 

Chris

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On 3/30/2020 at 4:37 PM, Chronocidal said:

Yeh, I've been impressed with their actual USN releases, but the Robotech one I have is by far the lowest quality of the bunch.  There are still a bunch of other markings sets I'd love to pick up (something to replace my lackluster Century Wings VF-84 "Final Countdown" scheme would be appreciated <_<), but I've had a lot of other priorities, and they've covered my other favorites.

Dont just leave it at that, please explain why you think it is low quality. That way you help educate those of still on the fence about purchasing one. 

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Since they are non transforming I wish they would step up and make a Dragon 2 or other type of Robotech aircraft. 

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While not transforming, they're still mostly metal and very detailed. Hard to imagine they could reach any economies of scale on obscure vehicles. I doubt even the alpha fighter would be profitable.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Aw man, BBTS listed the cannon fodder version as Ben Dixon.... He gets no respect.

Edited by jenius
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1 hour ago, Stampeed Valkyrie said:

so besides BBTS and or ebay.. are there any other shops handling this.. similar to KC has their own site?

Calibre Wings has their own site, there's also Flying Mule.

Neither has these listed yet.

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Don't like the white vernier thrusters but I guess it's to break up the color and give it some pop.

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The new Valks aren’t on Flying Mule either. Kind of annoyed the only one I want isn’t available.  Lol

Chris

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