Bandai DX Chogokin 1/48 VF-1

[Sanity is Optional]

30 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

But perfect transformation has nothing to do with the sequence of transformation and what it take to achieve it. Perfect transformation has always referred to changing from one form to another and assimilating the form it is meant to represent. The swing bar used is really a lazy and old representation by Bandai originally introduced by Yamato. Heck you could detach the old Yamato swing bar and use the hip swivel just the same by removing the center pin on the swing bar. But oh well, Bandai has come this far but at the same time not really far enough.

So, the swing bar is not accurate to the anime, but it's more accurate than not having one.

In the anime (and the Bandai 1/72 kit) there's a little swinging panel above the intakes that flips the legs down, and then retracts after they're latched on to the nosecone.

[nightmareB4macross]

1 hour ago, Sanity is Optional said:

So, the swing bar is not accurate to the anime, but it's more accurate than not having one.

In the anime (and the Bandai 1/72 kit) there's a little swinging panel above the intakes that flips the legs down, and then retracts after they're latched on to the nosecone.

That would have been the perfect solution. Implement what they themselves had pioneered and not trek over previously crossed paths. I just wish Bandai would have truly given us something NEW.

[Sanity is Optional]

15 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

That would have been the perfect solution. Implement what they themselves had pioneered and not trek over previously crossed paths. I just wish Bandai would have truly given us something NEW.

Yeah, no. I have the 1/72 kit and that solution (while it's accurate to the anime) is 100% complete garbage from a durability and transformability standpoint.

[Vi-RS]

2 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

But perfect transformation has nothing to do with the sequence of transformation and what it take to achieve it. Perfect transformation has always referred to changing from one form to another and assimilating the form it is meant to represent. The swing bar used is really a lazy and old representation by Bandai originally introduced by Yamato. Heck you could detach the old Yamato swing bar and use the hip swivel just the same by removing the center pin on the swing bar. But oh well, Bandai has come this far but at the same time not really far enough.

I think it was Takatoku first came up with the swing bar in 1984 for 1/55 and 1/100, then Yamato fine tuned it in 2003, and Bandai makes it better with detachable capability.

1 hour ago, Sanity is Optional said:

So, the swing bar is not accurate to the anime, but it's more accurate than not having one.

In the anime (and the Bandai 1/72 kit) there's a little swinging panel above the intakes that flips the legs down, and then retracts after they're latched on to the nosecone.

It'd be perfect if Bandai adopts that, but we don't want the DX turned into a messy flop.

[nightmareB4macross]

1 hour ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Yeah, no. I have the 1/72 kit and that solution (while it's accurate to the anime) is 100% complete garbage from a durability and transformability standpoint.

If you source the adequate materials to handle the stress and durability issues of transformations it will be possible to make it worK in the same manner as the 1/72.

[nightmareB4macross]

45 minutes ago, Vi-RS said:

I think it was Takatoku first came up with the swing bar in 1984 for 1/55 and 1/100, then Yamato fine tuned it in 2003, and Bandai makes it better with detachable capability.

It'd be perfect if Bandai adopts that, but we don't want the DX turned into a messy flop.

Well the old Takatoku version required two swing bars. The Yamato version had one. 

At this point is hard to say if the new Bandai model will or will not fall victim to loose joints. 

[no3Ljm]

2 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Well the old Takatoku version required two swing bars. The Yamato version had one. 

At this point is hard to say if the new Bandai model will or will not fall victim to loose joints. 

The detachable swing bar is just there as an option. If you want the nosecone to swivel for more articulation, you have to detach it. If not, you keep the swivel joint as is for extra stability.

 

[nightmareB4macross]

20 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

The detachable swing bar is just there as an option. If you want the nosecone to swivel for more articulation, you have to detach it. If not, you keep the swivel joint as is for extra stability.

 

I understand that, I just don’t understand why Bandai would have gone backwards when they already developed a far better system with the swing plates.

Oh well, it is what it is.

[Sanity is Optional]

42 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

 If you source the adequate materials to handle the stress and durability issues of transformations it will be possible to make it worK in the same manner as the 1/72.

Not in 1/48 it isn't.

Even if it was made entirely of metal, it'd still be too thin for durability, because the whole mechanism has to fold up inside the wing-root above the intakes.

[nightmareB4macross]

14 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Not in 1/48 it isn't.

Even if it was made entirely of metal, it'd still be too thin for durability, because the whole mechanism has to fold up inside the wing-root above the intakes.

Doesn’t have to be metal. That is sometimes the worst material to select for intricate parts such as these. There are extremely durable plastics that would do the job without issue.

[Sanity is Optional]

25 minutes ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Doesn’t have to be metal. That is sometimes the worst material to select for intricate parts such as these. There are extremely durable plastics that would do the job without issue.

As a Mechanical Engineer: no, there are not plastics that would work. Ideally it'd be made out of a stainless or spring-steel, something with good ductility. Not from cast-iron like most of the metal bits in these are, or a plastic.

There's a reason why Steel is better, because Steel has a thing called an Endurance Limit. As long as stresses are below a certain threshold, it will never fail. Even when it does "fail" most times it's just a permanent deformation (bending), that can be bent back a few times before snapping.

Plastics? Plastics will always fail eventually, because any amount of stress will cause a build-up of fatigue.

 

The whole design is overly complicated and fragile: you're replacing one bar with two tiny hinged flaps,  which have to be much smaller so they can fold into the wing-roots, plus you need to cram an attach/detach mechanism in there too that'll also wear out. 

I've built the Bandai 1/72 kit, and it's a terrible idea to stick into anything that's supposed to have durability.

[Matt Random]

This last month of waiting is going to kill me. This my most anticipated toy of the year. 

[no3Ljm]

Seriously, I’m no engineer. But I don’t think the lineart transformation is really going to work in poseable toy form. If it’s static, meaning standing pose only and for study purposes or like kits, it’s going or might going to work. And I think Bandai did that on their 1/72 kit but as Sanity pointed out it didn’t work out as intended.

As a moving and poseable toy, I would say there’s no other way of doing a perfect transformation without the swivel bar. But if we’re going the V1 route, then we’re losing that perfect teansformation vibe and that nosecone and joint should be re-engineered to make the figure sturdy. For me, even if I wanted to see a Battroid with waist articulation that is not a model kit, I rather not lose the sturdiness in Battroid mode in this deluxe figure. 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by no3Ljm

[nightmareB4macross]

11 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

As a Mechanical Engineer: no, there are not plastics that would work. Ideally it'd be made out of a stainless or spring-steel, something with good ductility. Not from cast-iron like most of the metal bits in these are, or a plastic.

There's a reason why Steel is better, because Steel has a thing called an Endurance Limit. As long as stresses are below a certain threshold, it will never fail. Even when it does "fail" most times it's just a permanent deformation (bending), that can be bent back a few times before snapping.

Plastics? Plastics will always fail eventually, because any amount of stress will cause a build-up of fatigue.

 

The whole design is overly complicated and fragile: you're replacing one bar with two tiny hinged flaps,  which have to be much smaller so they can fold into the wing-roots, plus you need to cram an attach/detach mechanism in there too that'll also wear out. 

I've built the Bandai 1/72 kit, and it's a terrible idea to stick into anything that's supposed to have durability.

Calm down no one is challenging your professional prowess. Plastic is the most cost effective solution to make the plates work properly ala the 1/72 Bandai. Was it effective not by any stretch, but It was the first iteration of actual moving plates and could have been made better moving forward with fhe DX. While you state steel is better sure it is, but practical not likely. And steel does fatigue as you so pointed out. From a practical and manufacturing and innovative standpoint the plates would have been ideal. All that is needed is the legs to secure properly in any form B/G/F.  If Bandai had given it more thought an progressed with the design I am confident an adequate rendition could have been achieved.

Note: I also built the 1/72 kit, if you hadn’t noticed from building the transformation sequence is also unique and nothing like Yamato’s or Takatoku’s previous designs.

[no3Ljm]

We'll never be sure the reason behind why Bandai opted out on doing that moving plates and all from the 1/72 model kit to the DX. There's probably a good reason why they didn't. I'm pretty sure they've been in the drawing board and testing phase to see what's going to work and whatnot. And there is a good reason why that swing bar still remains. The swing bar really helps stabilizing the skeleton structure of the figure in Battroid mode. And like I said earlier, if they really wanted to do ala-model kit method on the leg transfer, that nosecone and thigh intakes needs to be re-engineered to have it work in Battroid mode. Making the figure still articulated from the waist down and keeping the figure balanced and stable since the only thing that's connecting and supporting the body weight is just those two thigh intakes connecting joints to the nosecone. If this were a small DX figure, it might work. But at 1/48 scale with a lot of moving joints and hinges, not to mention some diecast content, it might not.

I too, still waiting for that day to see a 'perfect (line-art accurate) transforming' VF-1. But for now, I'm happy for what we have.

 

[Lolicon]

Dear Bandai,

Please forget about importing the fragile transformation systems from the 1/72 kit and instead give us white landing gears.

Love Regards,

Random MWer

[nightmareB4macross]

2 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

We'll never be sure the reason behind why Bandai opted out on doing that moving plates and all from the 1/72 model kit to the DX. There's probably a good reason why they didn't. I'm pretty sure they've been in the drawing board and testing phase to see what's going to work and whatnot. And there is a good reason why that swing bar still remains. The swing bar really helps stabilizing the skeleton structure of the figure in Battroid mode. And like I said earlier, if they really wanted to do ala-model kit method on the leg transfer, that nosecone and thigh intakes needs to be re-engineered to have it work in Battroid mode. Making the figure still articulated from the waist down and keeping the figure balanced and stable since the only thing that's connecting and supporting the body weight is just those two thigh intakes connecting joints to the nosecone. If this were a small DX figure, it might work. But at 1/48 scale with a lot of moving joints and hinges, not to mention some diecast content, it might not.

I too, still waiting for that day to see a 'perfect (line-art accurate) transforming' VF-1. But for now, I'm happy for what we have.

 

One day. One day soon, I hope.

I’m just happy we are still getting a new VF-1.

[nightmareB4macross]

44 minutes ago, Lolicon said:

Dear Bandai,

Please forget about importing the fragile transformation systems from the 1/72 kit and instead give us white landing gears.

Love Regards,

Random MWer

Love it.

[Convectuoso]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:00 PM, sh9000 said:

From those pics, i can't see where the heat shield comes from 

[Sildani]

Same place, from behind the chest plate. Pretty sure that was confirmed 10 or 20 pages ago. 

[mcfly50]

This was shared earlier. 

 

 

[Sildani]

Yep, there it is. That video is pure filth. If Bandai has made the joints the way they should be, and it’s assembled properly, this thing will be a joy just to transform and feel everything click into place. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Sildani

[tekering]

1 hour ago, Sildani said:

That video is pure filth.

I'm thoroughly disgusted myself.

[Drad]

I don't even wanna think about the Preorder Madness for Focker's VF-1S. Hoping I can get one, at least. Just one.

[nightmareB4macross]

Can’t wait for next month!

[Matt Random]

21 minutes ago, Drad said:

I don't even wanna think about the Preorder Madness for Focker's VF-1S. Hoping I can get one, at least. Just one.

I'll probably pass on Focker, but I'm sure I'll be staying up for the Hikaru VF-1S.

[nightmareB4macross]

Like most there are only a few that I would definitely want:

-VF-1J Hikaru TV

-VF-1S Super Hikaru TV

-VF-1A CF TV

-VF-1D TV

-VF-1S Strike Hikaru DYRL

-VE-1 ElintSeeker

-VT-1 SuperOstrich

and GBP-1 Armour TV

Beyond this list I have no interest for anything else. 

I hope this line is a success for Bandai and we get more than just a handful of varietal VFs.

[mcfly50]

No love for Max TV?

[Alex GS]

4 hours ago, mcfly50 said:

This was shared earlier. 

 

 

It looks effing awesome, very clean transformation if you ask me, also great they give you the option to detach the legs so you can have a waist like movement, freaking love how the head is allocated below, very nice view from below, no sure why people a are getting upset for me it looks great, I just hope the plastic used in this 1/48 valk is high quality so it can have a nice heft and feel to it unlike the Arcadia VF's that feel so light and feel like I'm going to break those. 

 

  

[technoblue]

5 hours ago, mcfly50 said:

No love for Max TV?

Beyond Hikaru and Roy, my only interest is in getting a complete Vermillion Team at this scale if Bandai decides to release Max and Kakizaki. 

I'm also curious to see how a "TV" parts pack will work for those two.

Edited November 25, 2018 by technoblue

[no3Ljm]

6 hours ago, Matt Random said:

I'll probably pass on Focker, but I'm sure I'll be staying up for the Hikaru VF-1S.

Cheers on this! 

5 hours ago, Alex GS said:

It looks effing awesome, very clean transformation if you ask me, also great they give you the option to detach the legs so you can have a waist like movement, freaking love how the head is allocated below, very nice view from below, no sure why people a are getting upset for me it looks great, I just hope the plastic used in this 1/48 valk is high quality so it can have a nice heft and feel to it unlike the Arcadia VF's that feel so light and feel like I'm going to break those.   

Who says I'm upset? I preordered two even though I'm scared of the shoulder double-hinge joint. 

 

[Alex GS]

9 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

 

Who says I'm upset? I preordered two even though I'm scared of the shoulder double-hinge joint. 

 

Those double hinges should be fine, what I mean it must be since this is Bandai first release for these new line, I really don't think Bandai want's screw up such an important Figure for introduction to the public and also Bandai has never released first editions with QA issues right , right people ? aww dammit  

[seti88]

54 minutes ago, technoblue said:

Beyond Hikaru and Roy, my only interest is in getting a complete Vermillion Team at this scale if Bandai decides to release Max and Kakizaki. 

I'm also curious to see how a "TV" parts pack will work for those two.

Am hoping that to be the case. The words Vermillion leader are tampoed on this version so it would be great if max and kakizaki were next.

[Vi-RS]

I'm surprised with the lack of details at this scale.

[Sanity is Optional]

10 minutes ago, Vi-RS said:

I'm surprised with the lack of details at this scale.

They might just have not put the inserts in yet, it's an unpainted prototype purely to show the transformation.