Harmony Gold suing Tatsunoko

[JB0]

8 minutes ago, azrael said:

Hate to spoil the mood but Frank Agrama hasn't been heavily involved in RT since...forever. He's just the ATM. All the ideas come from other people.

I think the belief is that once the ATM shuts down, everything else grinds to a halt.

[Knight26]

Imagine if comics weren't considered merchandise.  RT would have died decades ago.

[azrael]

19 minutes ago, JB0 said:

I think the belief is that once the ATM shuts down, everything else grinds to a halt.

If only that were true.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just now, JB0 said:

I think the belief is that once the ATM shuts down, everything else grinds to a halt.

Unfortunately, not a belief founded in reality.

The ATM shut down over a decade ago, which is why the "Shadow Saga" OVA was cancelled after producing just one episode.  The Agramas put up a minimal (<$1 million) budget for development and producton of the OVA's first episode on the condition that any subsequent episodes would be bankrolled by the sponsors that Tommy Yune promised this new series would attract.  After RTSC's embarrassing debut and lukewarm-at-best fan reception, sponsors were lining up none deep to put their money into Robotech.  The inevitable result was that a budget for Parts II thru IV never materialized because there were no sponsors willing to foot the bill and the Agramas were true to their word in refusing to fund further development.

This is why Tommy and Kevin spent so much time insisting that Shadow Rising really wasn't cancelled, that they were just waiting for the live-action movie to attract sponsors to the brand.  That was the only way they were going to get the funding to make parts II-IV.  It's also why, when Tommy tried to pitch Robotech Academy, they had to try to bankroll the project through Kickstarter.  There was no money forthcoming from the Agramas or Harmony Gold itself.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

Imagine if comics weren't considered merchandise.  RT would have died decades ago.

Yeah, probably.

The only thing that's going to finally kill Robotech will be when the fanbase shrinks to the point that there's no money to be made in merchandise licensing.  That point isn't all that far off anymore... they've got one comic series going, and the only licensees willing to touch the brand are bootleggers and indie outfits.

Harmony Gold can't even count on the distant possibility of extorting licensing money from the Macross franchise anymore now that their network of trademark registrations on the Macross name, logos, and key terms is being dismantled piece by piece by a series of legal challenges from Big West.

[Einherjar]

10 hours ago, Solid Hayate said:

Anything involving Harmony Gold not losing anything will make social media freak out.

How exhausting.  Being a hermit/lurker/cypher is much more dignified at this point.

[Ikaruss]

On 10/21/2019 at 2:30 PM, Solid Hayate said:

So, Funimation is going to stream Robotech worldwide it seems. Looks like HG is retaliating in response to Big West's victories in Australia, the UK and now China.

 

I love all the response to that tweet.
Nobody, NOBODY likes Robotech anymore...

[Focslain]

4 minutes ago, Ikaruss said:

I love all the response to that tweet.
Nobody, NOBODY likes Robotech anymore...

The FB post comments are no better. 

[Knight26]

6 minutes ago, Ikaruss said:

I love all the response to that tweet.
Nobody, NOBODY likes Robotech anymore...

I avoid Twitter whenever possible, what are they saying?

[azrael]

56 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

I avoid Twitter whenever possible, what are they saying?

Nothing of consequence. A bunch of people posting the Full Frontal.Moe article: https://fullfrontal.moe/kawamori-40-interview/

Not much vulgarity in either spot. Quite tame compared to more hotter topics.

[Einherjar]

I think the streaming deal would be more significant if a certain comic book was not gleefully subverting all that material for the last few years and throwing whatever counts as canon these days out the window.

[Bolt]

Ya. We already read that interview a while ago.  I can't help but wonder , is the RT fanbase getting smaller as time goes by? The companies licensing toys under the RT label seem to be attracting old and new fans of both RT AND Macross. In fact , it seems as if those are what's keeping the name treading water..

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, Einherjar said:

I think the streaming deal would be more significant if a certain comic book was not gleefully subverting all that material for the last few years and throwing whatever counts as canon these days out the window.

Nah, the comic was always gonna be an alterniverse story like Robotech vs. Voltron... because the continuity of the animated TV series is a sacred cow to Robotech fans, and woe betide anyone who dares tamper with it.  HG learned THAT lesson from the fan backlash over Robotech 3000 and later Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles.

 

 

4 hours ago, Bolt said:

[...] I can't help but wonder , is the RT fanbase getting smaller as time goes by? The companies licensing toys under the RT label seem to be attracting old and new fans of both RT AND Macross. In fact , it seems as if those are what's keeping the name treading water..

Demonstrably so... but most of its collapse has already occurred, so what we're seeing these days is small numbers of ultra-hardcore Robotech fans finally becoming disillusioned with the franchise and walking away.  The pace of deterioration isn't nearly as brisk as when HG and its volunteer mods were banning and harassing anyone who spoke critically of Shadow Chronicles, or when the massively toxic fandom was driving away casual fans by the hundreds in the flame wars over comics vs novels vs TV.

This decline is most evident in the decline in the quality of Robotech's licensees... thanks to the diminishing returns caused by the slow shrinkage of the fanbase.

Back in ~2001 when Robotech was riding high (relatively) on its reboot plans, their toy partner was Toynami and they were making a variety of different toy lines for the franchise.  They had TDK Mediactive and Vicious Cycle making video games.  They had new comics coming from DC's imprint WildStorm.  There was a new RPG coming from Palladium Books.  It isn't much, but it was still coming from well-established and reasonably respectable (at the time) manufacturers and publishers.  Nowadays, their home video releases are print on demand due to low demand, and everything else is coming from small-time and indie manufacturers and publishers if not actual bootleggers.  Their one and only comic series is by a smaller, specialty publisher leaning heavily on alternate covers for collectors to inflate sales.  They have no video game licenses, only a few cheap cardstock board games from indie publishers and a quick and dirty RPG rushed out by another indie publisher.  Their toy partners are small time indie operators and East Asian bootleggers, one of which was in such dire straits it literally went out of business before it could produce anything.  Instead of partnering with a professional anime industry (tweening) studio with a serious portfolio for future development like DR Movie, the development of Robotech Academy was done by a small-time CG animation house in South America at quality levels appreciably worse than many Source FilmMaker solo artists and DeviantArt amateurs.

HG's survival strategy for this merchandising extinction event is to focus exclusively on Macross and visibly brand everything they're putting out as Macross as well as Robotech.  They're wishing and hoping and praying that enough Macross fans will cross the line and buy Robotech-branded Macross merch from them to keep the brand's head above water.  They are in full-on survival-at-any-cost mode right now with no sign of a live-action movie or animated feature on the horizon.

[vladykins]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 Their toy partners are small time indie operators and East Asian bootleggers, one of which was in such dire straits it literally went out of business before it could produce anything. 

Still would have loved that three-mode Spartas hover tank. Damn you MaasToys!

[Seto Kaiba]

18 hours ago, vladykins said:

Still would have loved that three-mode Spartas hover tank. Damn you MaasToys!

Might be for the best... I'm not sure what it says about them that they couldn't even succeed at crime.

[Knight26]

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Might be for the best... I'm not sure what it says about them that they couldn't even succeed at crime.

ANd honestly, the early images looked worse than the Matchbox toy.

[JB0]

Honestly? Their whole spiel about how they design the toys, but leave it to the factory to figure out where hinges and tabs and screw holes go left me unsympathetic to them.

I'm kind of glad they're gone, just because they WEREN'T toy designers but claimed they were. They were illustrators taking credit, and filing the actual designers as "factory workers".

...

Hmmm, taking credit for the work of others... they were a perfect match for Robotech.

[vladykins]

I guess I have to go back to looking for the instructions on converting my Matchbox to a three-mode beast. 

[Einherjar]

Anyone know where the Macross dub is streaming these days?  Because I think HG has a problem.

Funimation Files Motion to Recover Attorney's Fees for Vic Mignogna's Lawsuit (Update)

Hikaru's english dub VA from an ADV Films release.

[Knight26]

1 minute ago, Einherjar said:

Anyone know where the Macross dub is streaming these days?  Because I think HG has a problem.

Funimation Files Motion to Recover Attorney's Fees for Vic Mignogna's Lawsuit (Update)

Hikaru's english dub VA from an ADV Films release.

I'd be curious about that as I can't find it anywhere and the only legit streaming source for SDFM recently was Amazon, and it was the unrestored version.  Of course RT had remaster on there.

[TehPW]

33 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

I'd be curious about that as I can't find it anywhere and the only legit streaming source for SDFM recently was Amazon, and it was the unrestored version.  Of course RT had remaster on there.

I am curious. Although I am sad that VM is involved (of the two major Trek Fan Film series Before Axanar, Star Trek Continues was arguably the better effort... but I still love World Enough and Time), *shrug* all the good ones... are sh*t. Explain the problem, please? I'm not sure how HG follows...?

 

*B.A. which is how I refer to fan films before they were placed forever in prohibition by CBS...

[Seto Kaiba]

11 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

Anyone know where the Macross dub is streaming these days? [...]

Given recent announcements about Robotech moving back to Funimation, it'll presumably land on Funimation's in-house streaming service FunimationNow sooner or later.

 

11 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

[...] Because I think HG has a problem.

Funimation Files Motion to Recover Attorney's Fees for Vic Mignogna's Lawsuit (Update)

Hikaru's english dub VA from an ADV Films release.

How so?  Production wrapped on Harmony Gold's sh*tty Macross dub almost fifteen years ago.

Vic's dismissal from Funimation's stable of voice actors after Sony HR's investigation of the many sexual harassment claims against him shouldn't have any bearing on Funimation's use (under license) of the Super Dimension Fortress Macross dub audio that Harmony Gold paid for back in 2005.  Even in the unlikely event that Vic is entitled to residuals from the distribution of the dub, Funimation could easily demand that that money owed go immediately towards the significant ($176k+) sum Vic is going to end up owing Funimation as a result of their legal entitlement to recover court costs and attorney's fees from him under the terms of the TCPA.

It's not like there's going to be a public outcry over Funimation not recasting and re-recording Vic's dialog from an obscure dub of Macross that was poorly regarded even when it was new.  What little fuss there's been has been about the recasting of Broly in current and future Dragon Ball Z releases or the (discredited) claims from Vic's supporters that were echoed in Vic's lawsuits that false accusations were made out of professional jealousy.

[Knight26]

On a tangentially related note:  During my recent con appearance, I met a young woman who is voice acting in an upcoming Funimation production.  Unfortunately I lost her card and it was so loud at that point I could barely hear her, but she will be plugging my books on her podcast.  Anyway, she related to me what a pain it was working with Funimation as several of her "co-stars" and other employees were constantly giving her a hard time and trying to get her to quit.  She said it was the most toxic environment she'd ever worked in, but it got her foot in the door with the industry.

[Einherjar]

3 hours ago, Knight26 said:

I'd be curious about that as I can't find it anywhere and the only legit streaming source for SDFM recently was Amazon, and it was the unrestored version.  Of course RT had remaster on there.

Until now I assumed that that that, the subs for Southern Cross and Mospeada were also part of the package that Funimation announced for their streaming service recently.  It’s my own fault too, not caring to read the details of the announcement.  Now it sounds even less significant to me since it’s a really bare boned deal compared to all the other material HG has promoted over the years that they are not getting.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Knight26 said:

On a tangentially related note:  During my recent con appearance, I met a young woman who is voice acting in an upcoming Funimation production.  Unfortunately I lost her card and it was so loud at that point I could barely hear her, but she will be plugging my books on her podcast.  Anyway, she related to me what a pain it was working with Funimation as several of her "co-stars" and other employees were constantly giving her a hard time and trying to get her to quit.  She said it was the most toxic environment she'd ever worked in, but it got her foot in the door with the industry.

Unsurprising, to say the least... esp. given that both sides in Vic Mignogna's lawsuits against Funimation have alleged that the corporate culture there was/is pretty awful.

I've heard that since most anime voice acting is done on a low-paying, non-union basis, it's extremely competitive and hostile to newcomers.

 

48 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

Now it sounds even less significant to me since it’s a really bare boned deal compared to all the other material HG has promoted over the years that they are not getting.

It makes you wonder how much money Harmony Gold paid for third-rate reporting like Den of Geek to plug this license change as a forerunner to exciting things for the coming-never live action movie.

[azrael]

4 hours ago, Einherjar said:

Funimation Files Motion to Recover Attorney's Fees for Vic Mignogna's Lawsuit (Update)

Yeah, this has little to do with HG and more with a sexual harassment lawsuit. Meh.

[Einherjar]

2 hours ago, azrael said:

Yeah, this has little to do with HG and more with a sexual harassment lawsuit. Meh.

I don’t know.  Can’t help but feel that public spectacles like this and his tendency to embarrass himself these days may eventually make any production he was involved in more and more problematic to certain companies to host.  Granted, SDF Macross may as well been just another job, he did the voice for the male lead.  And this is also a precarious time for HG as well with the license and whatever plans they have for the franchise.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Einherjar

[TehPW]

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

I don’t know.  Can’t help but feel that public spectacles like this and his tendency to embarrass himself these days may eventually make any production he was involved in more and more problematic to certain companies to host.  Granted, SDF Macross may as well been just another job, he did the voice for the male lead.  And this is also a precarious time for HG as well with the license and whatever plans they have for the franchise.

Here's a cheery thought: Maybe if HG keeps getting mentioned in media (as well as a brief explanation why) might finally work in our collective favor to permanently discredit HG?

[Einherjar]

1 hour ago, TehPW said:

Here's a cheery thought: Maybe if HG keeps getting mentioned in media (as well as a brief explanation why) might finally work in our collective favor to permanently discredit HG?

The kickstarters happened, remember?

[azrael]

6 hours ago, Einherjar said:

I don’t know.  Can’t help but feel that public spectacles like this and his tendency to embarrass himself these days may eventually make any production he was involved in more and more problematic to certain companies to host.  Granted, SDF Macross may as well been just another job, he did the voice for the male lead.  And this is also a precarious time for HG as well with the license and whatever plans they have for the franchise.

It does more to him than it ever will to HG. The incident in question happened well after he worked on RT. Unless this happened while he worked on RT or stemmed from his work then, sure, you could draw a line from that point, but this happened later. And it just cements this guy is a creep and shouldn't work in this field anymore.

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, TehPW said:

Here's a cheery thought: Maybe if HG keeps getting mentioned in media (as well as a brief explanation why) might finally work in our collective favor to permanently discredit HG?

Seems unlikely.  Harmony Gold USA is a pathetically small-time outfit whose one and only "marketable" property is an incredibly obscure piece of 80's esoterica that was a commercial flop even when it was new.  They are emphatically NOT trading on their credibility.  What little they manage to do involves collaborating with washed-up companies that are slumming hard just to keep the lights on (e.g. Netter Digital, World Events Productions, Vicious Cycle Software), similarly forgettable small-time and "indie" operators who are desperate for work (e.g. Palladium Books, Lucky Chicken Games, Big Blue Bubble, Strange Machine Games, Academy Comics, Antarctic Press, etc.), bootleggers (e.g. MAAS Toys), rank amateurs (Creavision), and the rare actually-competent company that nevertheless can't do a good job due to budgetary or creative constraints (e.g. Tatsunoko Pro, DR MOVIE).

If fiascos like the Robotech RPG Tactics scam didn't sink them, it's likely no amount of bad press will... short of discovering they're laundering money for terrorists or something.

[vladykins]

37 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

If fiascos like the Robotech RPG Tactics scam didn't sink them, it's likely no amount of bad press will... short of discovering they're laundering money for terrorists or something.

 

I had to up vote for that- I lolled hard.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, vladykins said:

I had to up vote for that- I lolled hard.

Well, it's not like the discovery that Harmony Gold was created specifically to launder money for the purpose of tax evasion, kickbacks, and bribes in the MediaSet scandal finished them off... even though Frank Agrama was tried and successfully convicted of the crime.  Or Jehan Agrama being under investigation for tax evasion via unreported foreign income.

To finish off a company with a reputation as bad as HG's, they'd need to be caught doing something REALLY heinous like having Frank's name come up in Epstein's little black book when the courts release it.

[Knight26]

33 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Well, it's not like the discovery that Harmony Gold was created specifically to launder money for the purpose of tax evasion, kickbacks, and bribes in the MediaSet scandal finished them off... even though Frank Agrama was tried and successfully convicted of the crime.  Or Jehan Agrama being under investigation for tax evasion via unreported foreign income.

To finish off a company with a reputation as bad as HG's, they'd need to be caught doing something REALLY heinous like having Frank's name come up in Epstein's little black book when the courts release it.

OMG HG killed Epstein!!!

[Einherjar]

19 hours ago, azrael said:

It does more to him than it ever will to HG. The incident in question happened well after he worked on RT. Unless this happened while he worked on RT or stemmed from his work then, sure, you could draw a line from that point, but this happened later. And it just cements this guy is a creep and shouldn't work in this field anymore.

While this played out, his behavior over the years has come under greater scrutiny.  Unfortunately, someone started a thread about one incident in another section of the forum back in August.

[Einherjar]

The Internet owes me the last couple of months back for the overblown piece of news this year was all about.