Harmony Gold suing Tatsunoko

[505thAirborne]

Quick, some call Doc Brown so we can borrow his Delorean and fix this whole mess! 

[Bolt]

I already tried that but he became a Klingon and left this taco stand

[DewPoint]

Like go back in time and give money to Big West so they don;t have to give the rights for Macross to Tatsunoko?

[505thAirborne]

8 minutes ago, Bolt said:

I already tried that but he became a Klingon and left this taco stand

 

8 minutes ago, DewPoint said:

Like go back in time and give money to Big West so they don;t have to give the rights for Macross to Tatsunoko?

This or something very close! 

[jvmacross]

5 minutes ago, 505thAirborne said:

Quick, some call Doc Brown so we can borrow his Delorean and fix this whole mess! 

September 21, 1951? 

 

 

[505thAirborne]

@jvmacross More like 1982-83.  

[Mommar]

So the reason why I was asking for clarification is because somebody earlier made the argument they sold back to HG to make money.  I'm trying to figure out if they did not sell back to HG and instead Bandai and Arcadia were able to be licensees it would still seem Tatsunoko would make WAY more money.  The designs from SDFM are far more popular outside of Japan, and Arcadia especially knows of this difference (SDF-1 and real world liveries are more likely a thing.)  They could suddenly cater to worldwide fans with far superior products.  Bandai and Arcadia could literally flood the world market with immediate goods (1/100, 1/60 and 1/48) and at a more consistent rate than the one or two POS toys every other year and a solitary garbage comic book.  Not to mention Jenius' idea of releasing Macross the First, which would also fall under the same licensing for the Manga.  It seems that Tatsunoko doens't like to make money and they're either clueless or inept about the properties prospects. 

They would even get revenue off of World releases of Delta and Frontier because of the use of the VF-1 and SDF-1 in those properties and it's good exposure/advertising to any new fans might mean securing funding for a Macross The First Anime, and thus, a semi-spinoff of SDFM would make them more money and could extend the franchise.  Maybe even make something like an animated release of The Ride with accompanying toys a better liklihood.  Tatsunoko and Bandai could both benefit off of the joint appearance of the Valks they own from that.  This is all versus HG who can't do anything, nothing new can be produced with the VF-1 so there's zero chance of new interest in the design or much of anyplace the license could creep out towards.

This is if I understand how all of this works between the various companies. 

[jenius]

47 minutes ago, Mommar said:

So the reason why I was asking for clarification is because somebody earlier made the argument they sold back to HG to make money.  I'm trying to figure out if they did not sell back to HG and instead Bandai and Arcadia were able to be licensees it would still seem Tatsunoko would make WAY more money.  The designs from SDFM are far more popular outside of Japan, and Arcadia especially knows of this difference (SDF-1 and real world liveries are more likely a thing.)  They could suddenly cater to worldwide fans with far superior products.  Bandai and Arcadia could literally flood the world market with immediate goods (1/100, 1/60 and 1/48) and at a more consistent rate than the one or two POS toys every other year and a solitary garbage comic book.  Not to mention Jenius' idea of releasing Macross the First, which would also fall under the same licensing for the Manga.  It seems that Tatsunoko doens't like to make money and they're either clueless or inept about the properties prospects. 

They would even get revenue off of World releases of Delta and Frontier because of the use of the VF-1 and SDF-1 in those properties and it's good exposure/advertising to any new fans might mean securing funding for a Macross The First Anime, and thus, a semi-spinoff of SDFM would make them more money and could extend the franchise.  Maybe even make something like an animated release of The Ride with accompanying toys a better liklihood.  Tatsunoko and Bandai could both benefit off of the joint appearance of the Valks they own from that.  This is all versus HG who can't do anything, nothing new can be produced with the VF-1 so there's zero chance of new interest in the design or much of anyplace the license could creep out towards.

This is if I understand how all of this works between the various companies. 

I think there are a few hurdles to overcome on this one but the biggest one is BigWest. BigWest owns everything domestic and forbids its licensees from dealing with Tatsunoko or its licensees. So, Bandai and Arcadia can't do anything with Tatsunoko or they risk losing their domestic business. Arcadia is a non-entity in this since they wouldn't be able to make a material bid on anything but if Bandai had said "Look, sell us the rights to Macross" they would have irked BW, perhaps lost their license, perhaps started a lawsuit from BW about international distribution, it might have gotten ugly. So then the question would be 'why not have BW purchase their rights back from Tatsunoko?' but the answer may be the same, BW refuses to do business with Tatsunoko, perhaps to their own detriment here. Also, if Tatsunoko did owe HG money from a lawsuit, renewing the license is an easy way to make that debt go away. I would guess that BW doesn't feel there's a huge market for the original SDF Macross show for them and that, in today's world, Westerners can import toys pretty easily, so there's not enough value in putting pride aside for a moment and do business with Tatsunoko. So, rather than stepping into the quagmire, don't even bid on the rights so Tatsunoko makes as little as they can from their deal with HG.

[JB0]

2 minutes ago, jenius said:

BigWest owns everything domestic and forbids its licensees from dealing with Tatsunoko or its licensees.

I thought that was mostly because of Harmony Gold's infamous "we own everything Macross-related forever" claims.

Big West was all "Why the heck did you tell your licensee you own everything Macross-related?!" and Tatsunoko was like "We didn't say crap to HG about anything but the original cartoon, what are you even talking about?" and Big West was "OUR licensees are saying that YOUR licensee is shaking them down over Macross Plus toys and Macross 7 comics and you claim you had nothing to do with it?! See you in court, bucko."

Just another reason for Tatsunoko to drop HG like a hot potato, really.

[jenius]

I think that's pretty similar to how it went down. It was the Wild West for a while, HG got greedy, the license rights were kind of done willy-nilly, so Tatsunoko and BW went to court to clarify things which put an end to (many of the) HG shenanigans but established BW's embargo on anything that would put a dime in Tatsunoko's coffers. But Tatsunoko only has one party that would buy the rights other than HG, BW, and BW wants them to die a painful death so... HG gets the rights again. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by jenius

[easnoddy]

The war is lost. Im just going to sell all my HG/Toynami stuff. Im done. 

[sketchley]

43 minutes ago, jenius said:

I think that's pretty similar to how it went down. It was the Wild West for a while, HG got greedy, the license rights were kind of done willy-nilly, so Tatsunoko and BW went to court to clarify things which put an end to (many of the) HG shenanigans but established BW's embargo on anything that would put a dime in Tatsunoko's coffers. But Tatsunoko only has one party that would buy the rights other than HG, BW, and BW wants them to die a painful death so... HG gets the rights again. 

 

Sadly, the one way to have solved this and gotten BW to play ball with Tatsunoko was to have shown Big West how big a profit they can get from overseas customers...

[jenius]

23 minutes ago, sketchley said:

 

Sadly, the one way to have solved this and gotten BW to play ball with Tatsunoko was to have shown Big West how big a profit they can get from overseas customers...

Agreed, and I don't think anyone could have convinced them that there was a significant amount of money to be made there AND from Tatsunoko's perspective, if the deal is based on a percentage of revenues, Harmony Gold actually has a huge upper hand at the bargaining table. Would BW really make a strong push to put a 35 year old show on TV to outside markets? BW wouldn't be striking deals with Hollywood for a show that has less visibility than Robotech in that market. If BW did get the license, would HG become hostile and block the import of goods based on their copyrights or trademarks? 

If you're in BW's shoes, you might look at this and think that the best way to move forward is to go full Last Jedi, bury the past. Companies have been making toys for the domestic market and it's easy for the international market to import them so, why bother rocking the boat? 

[nightmareB4macross]

If this relationship is true, well then it’s time to give it a rest. If you don’t like HG don’t support what they produce. If you do well then good for you. At this point there is nothing to do but accept what has happened and understand that this is far beyond our control. Speculation will do nothing to better the situation.

Let the hatchet rest and call it a day. If there are those who still support HG products who are we to cast a negative shadow on their choices? 

It’s time to move past all this. If you like Macross,  well then, cool. If you like RTec well then good for you too.

It’s over for now...

[JB0]

1 hour ago, nightmareB4macross said:

If this relationship is true, well then it’s time to give it a rest. If you don’t like HG don’t support what they produce. If you do well then good for you. At this point there is nothing to do but accept what has happened and understand that this is far beyond our control. Speculation will do nothing to better the situation.

But complaining about Robotech is like half the reason this forum even exists.

[no3Ljm]

For those who wants to listen.

 

[Einherjar]

10 hours ago, nightmareB4macross said:

Let the hatchet rest and call it a day. If there are those who still support HG products who are we to cast a negative shadow on their choices? 

Did you see my post with all of the “official” products that have come about?  That is not a good excuse in the age of the echo chamber.  

Although, I don’t have a problem if people willingly choose to humiliate themselves making excuses for why last and future projects were justified.  It’s only that I’ve seen where all of that usually ends; bitter with a love/hate relationship with the franchise because of very little payoff from their loyalty.  Can’t stomach what the powers that be actually release to the public compared to what they promised.  The occasional, but ultimately hollow, ego trip at the Macross purists for what they end up getting, especially if it clashes with whatever foundation Robotech is supposedly built on theses days.  And the realization that they helped a bunch of suits without a real vision for the franchise make money off of their nostalgia.  Making money off poor saps like them was the real vision.

The only difference now is that they will definitely not live to get any satisfying closure from it.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Einherjar
Going for the jugular.

[Chronocidal]

So, just to clarify the current situation though, didn't Big West snap up the Macross trademark in Europe, or some portion of it? 

[Seto Kaiba]

28 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

So, just to clarify the current situation though, didn't Big West snap up the Macross trademark in Europe, or some portion of it? 

In the UK, yes.

[DewPoint]

I wonder if that was because Brexit created a legal opening.

[Hikaru Ichijo SL]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

In the UK, yes.

That is very interesting, I wonder what they really can do.  Could they release a Macross Blu-ray box set which could be easily imported to the US by Amazon UK.

[JB0]

Just now, Hikaru Ichijo SL said:

That is very interesting, I wonder what they really can do.  Could they release a Macross Blu-ray box set which could be easily imported to the US by Amazon UK.

Of the new serieses, yes. 

Of SDF Macross, no. HG, through Tatsunoko, has exclusive worldwide distribution rights to that entry in the franchise.

[Bolt]

12 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

For those who wants to listen.

 

Thanks Noel.

After 2 hours all the news or info I personally got was a new Ben Dixon action figure this summer, a new role playing game by Strange Machine. and..” if your a MACROSS fan, over the next couple of months, you’re gonna start seeing some really cool merchandise...I think your Really gonna like..” says KM..(This is one Macross Fan that won’t bite!)

Everything else was “ I can’t talk about that..” while I’m not surprised at the NDA he’s  bound to, it left not much to talk about..

A few observations on my part.. This will surely fuel more RT merchandise and Sony will absolutely, IMO, move forward on the film. Also at lest a quarter of the live chat questions were people hating on hg..go figure.

[Einherjar]

34 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Everything else was “ I can’t talk about that..” while I’m not surprised at the NDA he’s  bound to, it left not much to talk about..

Over ten years ago, a streaming site called TalkShoe, on shows such as Space Station Liberty and the RDF Underground, an eerily similar song and dance posturing about everything.  The hosts and their listeners were left hanging and bitterly accepted it.  Bet a lot of people these days don’t know about that.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Einherjar

[Dynaman]

1 hour ago, Hikaru Ichijo SL said:

That is very interesting, I wonder what they really can do.  Could they release a Macross Blu-ray box set which could be easily imported to the US by Amazon UK.

Only problem is that the UK is a different region from the US where Blu-Ray is concerned.  You would have to have a UK BR player or a multi-region one (if there is such a thing, I know there is for DVD).

[Dynaman]

30 minutes ago, Bolt said:

 

 Sony will absolutely, IMO, move forward on the film. 

I keep a wait and see on that one.  Other than Transformers Anime and Giant Robot movies are not doing so well.  

[Seto Kaiba]

40 minutes ago, Bolt said:

This will surely fuel more RT merchandise and Sony will absolutely, IMO, move forward on the film.

Not likely, it's not like this made all the legal problems associated with a film like that go away... and it didn't magically make their brand any less unpopular either.  I don't think Sony will move forward with it, just like Warner Bros didn't do anything with it... and the brand is even less popular now than it was then.  They will bend, fold, spindle, and mutilate the truth to make mountains out of molehills to give the illusion that someone at Sony gives a crap about the property but nothing will happen because Sony isn't stupid enough to schedule a tap dance recital in a field of antipersonnel mines.

It's the same as Harmony Gold's endless routine about cancelled projects.  They'll hem and haw about how, no, they're really just on indefinite hiatus which totally isn't the same thing as cancellation and then after a few years of pretending they're still working on it they quietly stop mentioning it unless someone brings it up and eventually people just stop asking... then they reveal it was really cancelled all along.  They spent seven years pretending they were still working on Shadow Chronicles Part II only to eventually give up and admit Part II was cancelled mere months after Part I came out.  They tried the same stunt with Robotech Academy and the studio they'd partnered with called them on it, but that didn't stop them... the fandom hatred for the idea did.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Seto Kaiba

[akt_m]

I also don't think sony will make a movie out of it.

Sony only bought a name. They can't use any macross designs. All sony has is a lame name "ROBOTECH".

If they are going to create everything from nothing, why even bother to call it robotech? Why do all the work just to add value to someone else trademark.

 

Also a small poll:

https://www.strawpoll.me/18286869

[Graham]

Well, this sucks.

Can honestly say I haven't bought anything Robotech since 1990, so have not supported them in decades.

 

 

 

 

[Bolt]

43 minutes ago, akt_m said:

 

I also don't think sony will make a movie out of it.

Sony only bought a name. They can't use any macross designs. All sony has is a lame name "ROBOTECH".

 

If a move is is made it will undoubtedly be a reimagining of the original story. Including the mecha designs.

 

44 minutes ago, akt_m said:

If they are going to create everything from nothing, why even bother to call it robotech? Why do all the work just to add value to someone else trademark.

 

So they can make more toys , comics , animations, books, etc. with the new designs. And have it all fall under the RT umbrella.

I havent supported RT in decades either and will continue to keep on keeping on

[Seto Kaiba]

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

If a move is is made it will undoubtedly be a reimagining of the original story. Including the mecha designs.

Yeah, that's the point.  If Sony decides to make the film, they'll basically have to create an all-new, all-original SF mecha action film from scratch.  What does Sony have to gain by surrendering partial ownership of their creation to a LA-based rental property firm and paying royalties to them for the use of a name that's far more readily associated with a brand of pool cleaning machines or a dangerous-looking mechanized male masturbation aid from Japan? 

That'd be like creating an all-original superhero movie on the company's own dime, then unnecessarily paying royalties to Proctor & Gamble because they just couldn't live without calling him Mr. Clean.

 

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

So they can make more toys , comics , animations, books, etc. with the new designs. And have it all fall under the RT umbrella.

OR... if Sony decides to make the movie but NOT call it Robotech and NOT use the handful of key terms that are all that come with the license in their essentially all-original film, they can do all of that AND keep all the money for themselves!

Y'see, there's a reason the movie hasn't been made... and it makes good (dollars and) sense.

They have literally no incentive to make a Robotech movie because the Robotech license is basically worthless.  The only reason it got picked up in the first place was because Paramount was making bank on Transformers and it just happened to be a giant robot show that was on the air around the same time back in the 80's.  When a title makes it big, studios buy up rights to similar stories just to deny them to each other in the event that that genre becomes the next big thing.

 

1 minute ago, Bolt said:

I havent supported RT in decades either and will continue to keep on keeping on

Good man.  

[Einherjar]

I don’t know Bolt.  From your description of that stream, to me a lot of promises that the HG PR guy made about the franchise sounds suspiciously like past things he has said over a decade ago during streamed interviews for past shows like the ones I mentioned, almost verbatim.  Kind of lame if the PR strategy is to what they did before, but adjust it for a more Internet savvy group of people, and hope no one remembers what was said from that far back.

Just a quick question, were any of these lines used at all in the stream:

gangbusters

x is quacking in their boots

tent pole franchise

We own everything in Macross

Edited July 8, 2019 by Einherjar

[DewPoint]

Their collectable products seem to be improving.  Although that's only because they are giving incenses to products that originally started out as knockoffs.

[tekering]

6 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

a dangerous-looking mechanized male masturbation aid from Japan

Had to Google that one...

While "far more readily associated" is typical Seto Kaiba hyperbole, it does actually exist...!  

Oh, and speaking of Seto Kaiba hyperbole...

4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Sony isn't stupid enough to schedule a tap dance recital in a field of antipersonnel mines.

This one's my new favorite.  

My compliments, sir.  

[JB0]

22 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That'd be like creating an all-original superhero movie on the company's own dime, then unnecessarily paying royalties to Proctor & Gamble because they just couldn't live without calling him Mr. Clean.

I'd watch a Mister Clean movie.

I can't say that about Robotech.