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1 hour ago, renegadeleader1 said:

That's not much of a loss, TBH.  

Round-number figures for per-episode anime production costs on a typical late-night anime series c.2016 were cited at approximately ¥19.23 million1 (~$174,300 USD), with ¥250 million (~$2.27 million USD) being the typical going rate for a 13-episode series.

In perspective, that ¥50 million net loss that Tatsunoko posted for FY2017 is about what they would spend on production for 2 1/2 episodes of a weekly TV anime.  (Or, more depressingly, what they'd spend on the annual salaries of 16 animators at the industry average compensation of ¥3.1 million per annum.)

 

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This is something to keep an eye on as it may have repercussions down the road especially if Tatsunoko sees selling the Macross license as the only way to stay above water financially. There could also be issues if Tatsunoko declares bankruptcy before the arrangement between them and HG runs out.

Animation is a hard business to turn a profit in, since so much of it depends on merchandising and events.  I'm sure they're used to the occasional lean year if they don't have a hot property on deck at the time.

One has to wonder how much of that red ink is Harmony Gold's fault, from the arbitration over the issue of royalties and legal fees, and getting stuck with HG's court costs and attorney fees on top of their own because of it.

 

1. https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2015-08-13/anime-insiders-share-how-much-producing-a-season-costs/.91536

Edited by Seto Kaiba
Math error, 16 animators not 17.
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19 hours ago, renegadeleader1 said:

Tatsunoko lost nearly half a million US dollars last year.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2018-06-28/tatsunoko-productions-takes-50-million-net-loss-in-2017/.133507

 

This is something to keep an eye on as it may have repercussions down the road especially if Tatsunoko sees selling the Macross license as the only way to stay above water financially. There could also be issues if Tatsunoko declares bankruptcy before the arrangement between them and HG runs out.

Wouldn't it be better if they sell the license to a Japanese company? Surely they'd get more than if they'd sell to HG? HG turns out crap comics which doesn't help...

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1 hour ago, hachi said:

Wouldn't it be better if they sell the license to a Japanese company? Surely they'd get more than if they'd sell to HG? HG turns out crap comics which doesn't help...

Have to wait for the renewal in 2021 for that to happen.

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2 hours ago, hachi said:

Wouldn't it be better if they sell the license to a Japanese company? Surely they'd get more than if they'd sell to HG? HG turns out crap comics which doesn't help...

One would imagine they would court Big West first for that purpose... deeper pockets, y'know?

 

 

54 minutes ago, Focslain said:

Have to wait for the renewal in 2021 for that to happen.

In the unlikely event that Tatsunoko were to go bankrupt and have to liquidate assets, they wouldn't have to wait until 2021.

I'd have to check how Japanese contract law is written to see if selling their Macross rights would invalidate HG's license outright, or if the new owner would be obligated to continue honoring that license until its term ended.  I suspect the former.

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This is a non story. Tats is majority owned (54%) by Nippon television 

 In fiscal year 2017 Nippon had media revenues of roughly 3.3 billion dollars.

Tats won’t need to take a crappy HG deal unless BW doesn’t give them a deal they feel is fair, and Tats has no other way to monetize the property.

It has been stated all the people with bad blood in management from the Tats side towards BW are gone (probably from the Nippon acquisition in 2014).

The HG trademarks (kite / macross name) based on the US arbitration become Tats property when the current agreement expires.

IMO 2021 will all boil down to if BW and Tats agree to an equitable split of revenues from Sony/Funi, Crunchyroll, or Netflix.

 

 

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2 hours ago, cjcastan said:

This is a non story. Tats is majority owned (54%) by Nippon television 

 In fiscal year 2017 Nippon had media revenues of roughly 3.3 billion dollars.

Tats won’t need to take a crappy HG deal unless BW doesn’t give them a deal they feel is fair, and Tats has no other way to monetize the property.

It has been stated all the people with bad blood in management from the Tats side towards BW are gone (probably from the Nippon acquisition in 2014).

The HG trademarks (kite / macross name) based on the US arbitration become Tats property when the current agreement expires.

IMO 2021 will all boil down to if BW and Tats agree to an equitable split of revenues from Sony/Funi, Crunchyroll, or Netflix.

 

 

My money is on seeing Macross on Crunchy Roll towards the end of 2021. It's a platform that already gets good views from Yamato 2199/2202 alone...

Edited by TehPW
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  • 10 months later...

This video does a pretty good job of explaining the current situation.  As he says, this isn't intended to be a complete and exhaustive telling of the entire Robotech/HG/Macross story, just an overview to get viewers up to speed:

Keep in mind this is part 4 of a series.  And obligatory f**k Harmony Gold.

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6 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

This video does a pretty good job of explaining the current situation.  As he says, this isn't intended to be a complete and exhaustive telling of the entire Robotech/HG/Macross story, just an overview to get viewers up to speed:

Keep in mind this is part 4 of a series.  And obligatory f**k Harmony Gold.

I'm qouting your post here. ^_^

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

https://twitter.com/PegasusSSK/status/1135273827540316160

"[#EUIPO] First big win for producer #BigWest, who is allowed to drop the #Macross mark in the United Kingdom. #HarmonyGold dismissed ALL grounds for opposition, as unable to justify them. The beginning of the end, I hope so."

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003235006

Looks like HG is no longer able to use anything related to Macross in the UK.

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47 minutes ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

https://twitter.com/PegasusSSK/status/1135273827540316160

"[#EUIPO] First big win for producer #BigWest, who is allowed to drop the #Macross mark in the United Kingdom. #HarmonyGold dismissed ALL grounds for opposition, as unable to justify them. The beginning of the end, I hope so."

 https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003235006

Looks like HG is no longer able to use anything related to Macross in the UK.

Wow, that's actually pretty huge, since it means that international distribution is back on the table, even if not to the US yet.

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2 hours ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

https://twitter.com/PegasusSSK/status/1135273827540316160

"[#EUIPO] First big win for producer #BigWest, who is allowed to drop the #Macross mark in the United Kingdom. #HarmonyGold dismissed ALL grounds for opposition, as unable to justify them. The beginning of the end, I hope so."  

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00003235006

Looks like HG is no longer able to use anything related to Macross in the UK.

I'm trembling with excitement! Finally, it is happening!

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I don't want to be a downer here, but I think the distribution thing still stands. Yes, it's positive that BW can now sell Macross SHOWS in the UK, and probably distribute everything outside of the original Macross, (Macross7, Plus, etc.) but stuff from the TV show probably still falls under the existing agreement's distribution rights clause which is separate from any trademark complaint. 

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4 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

This is a big win for Big West and Macross... and further proof that the end is in sight for Harmony Gold and Robotech.

I PM'd Nerotic on FB. IDK if he'll mention it (he's not talked too much about Macross to my knowledge but between him and that Lawyer, they are the only two I know off who have in the past). I'm still wait & see on this (I'm old and I distrust everything until I see it on NPR LOL)

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6 minutes ago, TehPW said:

I PM'd Nerotic on FB. IDK if he'll mention it (he's not talked too much about Macross to my knowledge but between him and that Lawyer, they are the only two I know off who have in the past). I'm still wait & see on this (I'm old and I distrust everything until I see it on NPR LOL)

Kind of surprised to hear he's talked about Macross... all I've ever seen from him is a great deal of grumbling about the handling of the Star TrekStar WarsGame of Thrones, and MCU franchises.  Some of it justified, some of it not, and some of it just plain factually inaccurate.  I'm not sure I would recommend him for a summary or analysis of a complex legal situation given the way he's handled talking about the situation between CBS and Anas Abdin, which has contained some... interesting... conclusions. :unsure:

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  • 2 weeks later...
12 minutes ago, Sildani said:

Found this on the Macross subreddit:

Lemme fix that last sentence...

"Join Harmony Gold's coffee boy, Kevin McKeever, as he dispenses lies less believable than a North Korean news broadcast."

There is no bloody way that McKeever of all people is going to give a realistic assessment of how totally screwed Robotech is when they lose the rights in 2021.  He'll probably deny to the hilt that they're going to be losing the rights.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Lemme fix that last sentence...

"Join Harmony Gold's coffee boy, Kevin McKeever, as he dispenses lies less believable than a North Korean news broadcast."

:lol:

I was about to post that HG's spin doctor is on it already, attempting to confuse and muddy the waters in America... :(

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2 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

They’re going to kill Minmay in-universe to reboot the franchise?

I’m not sure RT’s Minmay’s death has the space-time dimension-altering ability necessary to reboot the franchise. 

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7 minutes ago, technoblue said:

:lol:

I was about to post that HG's spin doctor is on it already, attempting to confuse and muddy the waters in America... :(

He's not very effective at it, given that pretty much everyone remotely familiar with the Robotech and Macross franchise knows he's Harmony Gold's liar-in-chief.  He's a joke and the only one who doesn't know it is him.  (Even the other HG employees don't like him.)

 

6 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

They’re going to kill Minmay in-universe to reboot the franchise?

Again?  They already did it once.

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1 hour ago, azrael said:

I’m not sure RT’s Minmay’s death has the space-time dimension-altering ability necessary to reboot the franchise. 

I think I’ve learned enough about Robotech to say that unless people working on the franchise really have a plot related use for her, they would rather not give her any attention besides a token reminder that she exists and fan service.  And when they do, like what the Titan comic is doing, it’s a bad sign they are just going to put her through McKinneyist levels of hell.  

Edited by Einherjar
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Remember when he was just a troll who kept coming here to cause trouble but never did it so overtly that would warrant an instant lifetime ban but resulted in you having to step in to tell him and others who took his bait to stop it or else?  I sure do and this is the guy HG hired to tell everyone about Robotech.  It never ceased to amaze we.

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1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

I think I’ve learned enough about Robotech to say that unless people working on the franchise really have a plot related use for her, they would rather not give her any attention besides a token reminder that she exists and fan service.

Nah, they don't bother working her into plots anymore... she gets dragged out whenever they need/want to throw the odd reference to Macross into a story, because most Robotech fans are closeted Macross fans who couldn't give a crap about the other 2/3 of the "original" Robotech story.  Like in their comic book bridge to the Shadow Chronicles OVA, she appeared solely to be captured and put through such grievous torture that she could never appear again because using her is too legally problematic.

 

1 hour ago, Einherjar said:

 And when they do, like what the Titan comic is doing, it’s a bad sign they are just going to put her through McKinneyist levels of hell.  

Or they'll just kill her off again... she doesn't seem anywhere near as important to the story as previous incarnations.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Oh my..that bad eh?

We are, if anything, understating it.

 

5 minutes ago, Bolt said:

It sounds like there’s gonna be a smoke and mirrors session.

I would suggest honorable seppuku..:ph34r:

There hasn't been an honorable employee at Harmony Gold since Tom Bateman was forced out.

This "information session" is going to essentially be the same kind of bullsh*t pep talk you see all the time from venture capitalist CEOs imploring shareholders to keep the faith while the stock price plummets and the company posts massive losses.  The kind that, in any other context, would sound like a DPRK news brief... "All is fine.  No more questions.  Our glorious president will lead us to victory."

 

51 minutes ago, Roy Focker said:

Remember when he was just a troll who kept coming here to cause trouble but never did it so overtly that would warrant an instant lifetime ban but resulted in you having to step in to tell him and others who took his bait to stop it or else?  I sure do and this is the guy HG hired to tell everyone about Robotech.  It never ceased to amaze we.

Well, you get what you pay for.  Harmony Gold set out to hire an international marketing coordinator for the Robotech franchise but, like all the other newly-created Robotech franchise positions, the advertised salary was more suitable for an entry level office job in a much less expensive-to-live-in area than Los Angeles.  McKeever might well have been the only person to apply for the post, as it would only have appealed to a real idiot who would value working on Robotech over not being paid like an intern.

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14 hours ago, Bolt said:

Oh my..that bad eh?

It sounds like there’s gonna be a smoke and mirrors session.

 

That would be pretty much par for the course then.  The amount of needle threading I've seen of their previous sessions are epic.  Asked if they have the rights to Macross they keep saying they have full rights to "Robotech".

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Do they still have rights to Mospeada and Southern Cross? I'm 95% sure that's a no, but if they do I don't see why they don't just cut their losses and start over with what they have left... which, given, isn't a lot, but it's still more substantial than what passes for Robotech original content.

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2 hours ago, Dynaman said:

That would be pretty much par for the course then.  The amount of needle threading I've seen of their previous sessions are epic.  Asked if they have the rights to Macross they keep saying they have full rights to "Robotech".

Harmony Gold's evasiveness is a survival tactic on a couple different levels.

On the one hand, they don't want to get into the details of their legal situation because they can get into a lot of trouble if they do start talking about it and say something that they're not allowed to talk about from a sealed settlement or if they misrepresent the state of affairs and another interested party takes exception.  (Like what happened when they claimed to have the rights to all of Macross rather than just its original series in 1999-2000 and it not only got them in trouble, it got Tatsunoko in trouble too.)

On the other hand, they don't want to appear that they aren't in control of the franchise... and let's be honest, 99% of the fandom who are still holding out hope for Robotech's future are there for the Macross references.  If they were to actually admit they can't use Macross stuff in new film works, they'd damage the fandom's confidence in their brand.

 

1 minute ago, kajnrig said:

Do they still have rights to Mospeada and Southern Cross? I'm 95% sure that's a no, but if they do I don't see why they don't just cut their losses and start over with what they have left... which, given, isn't a lot, but it's still more substantial than what passes for Robotech original content.

As far as we know, it all expires together in 2021 based on comments made by Tatsunoko in their arbitration.

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1 hour ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Or at least what remains of the Robotech fanbase, which I imagine isn't much.

Some of the Harmony Gold "insider" fanboys seemed to believe that it's damage licensee confidence in the Robotech brand if the true extent of the limitations on Harmony Gold's license and its legal problems became public knowledge.

The reasonable among us might have cause to wonder "what licensee confidence?", given that Harmony Gold was already scraping the bottom of the barrel in 2008 and have now moved on to licensing the brand to actual criminals in the form of Southeast Asian toy bootleggers.

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