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Hiryu

Watched SDFM for the first time. Grew up watching the "R" word series.

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So, like a lot of people, I was introduced to Macross via Robotech growing up. I've seen every other Macross show except SDFM and have never revisited Robotech. So I decided to finally sit down and watch SDFM for the first time. Here are a couple thoughts after getting through ~28 episodes.

- I really got a sense of the youthfulness of the characters, particularly Hikaru and Max. The fact that they were supposed to be young came across effectively through the voice actors as opposed to Robotech, where looking back I felt like they were all grown adults who acted like idiots at times. Hikaru is much more likable than "Rick".

- I wish story telling was still done this way. It's a bit slower, but I feel more engaged and I feel like I know the characters better. Looking back at Frontier and Delta, they are so fast paced that things barely sink in. 

- OMG are Max and Milia's voice actors the same ones in M7? Awesome!

- Is it me or did the art/animation get really bad towards the middle of the series and then pick up again towards the end?

- Protoculture actually makes sense now!! My world is blown! The context finally makes sense for the other Macross shows. Now I'm just anticipating getting the whole "SDF2" mess cleared up.

- I'm really appreciating the various mecha in the show, destroids, etc, even the Zentradi stuff. Glaugs rule! I love different variants/schemes for the VF-1. Seems like now the focus is just getting out the next valk evolution and calling it "better" ala the stats treadmill.

- Kamjin cracks me up with his reckless ways. As a child, I just remember "Khyron" being a less funny a-hole. 

That's it for now.

 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Hiryu said:

- OMG are Max and Milia's voice actors the same ones in M7? Awesome!

Yes.

 

Quote

- Is it me or did the art/animation get really bad towards the middle of the series and then pick up again towards the end?

Yep... the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series had some problems as a result of its animation workload being farmed out to a bunch of different studios, not all of which were up to snuff quality-wise.  The chief offender is generally agreed to be the Korean studio StarPro, who had been engaged by Tatsunoko Production to help animate the series.  (Other studios involved included AnimeFriend, AIC, Artland, and the forerunners of Gainax.)

 

Quote

- Protoculture actually makes sense now!! My world is blown! The context finally makes sense for the other Macross shows. Now I'm just anticipating getting the whole "SDF2" mess cleared up.

Without spoiling anything, that will be cleared up in dialog only... the scenes where the SDF-2 was supposed to appear were cut in the storyboard phase due to runtime concerns.  The ship does appear in Macross: Flashback 2012 and put in cameos in other shows.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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15 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yep... the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series had some problems as a result of its animation workload being farmed out to a bunch of different studios, not all of which were up to snuff quality-wise.  The chief offender is generally agreed to be the Korean studio StarPro, who had been engaged by Tatsunoko Production to help animate the series.  (Other studios involved included AnimeFriend, AIC, Artland, and the forerunners of Gainax.)

This is where the infamous Robotech-only "YF-1R" came from.

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puremac.jpg.34521d5e5406f7e22b04aa69deeb21f0.jpg

 

Welcome to the (space) fold, brother.

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On 8/30/2017 at 11:26 PM, Hiryu said:

So, like a lot of people, I was introduced to Macross via Robotech growing up. I've seen every other Macross show except SDFM and have never revisited Robotech. So I decided to finally sit down and watch SDFM for the first time. Here are a couple thoughts after getting through ~28 episodes.

- I really got a sense of the youthfulness of the characters, particularly Hikaru and Max. The fact that they were supposed to be young came across effectively through the voice actors as opposed to Robotech, where looking back I felt like they were all grown adults who acted like idiots at times. Hikaru is much more likable than "Rick".

- I wish story telling was still done this way. It's a bit slower, but I feel more engaged and I feel like I know the characters better. Looking back at Frontier and Delta, they are so fast paced that things barely sink in. 

- OMG are Max and Milia's voice actors the same ones in M7? Awesome!

- Is it me or did the art/animation get really bad towards the middle of the series and then pick up again towards the end?

- Protoculture actually makes sense now!! My world is blown! The context finally makes sense for the other Macross shows. Now I'm just anticipating getting the whole "SDF2" mess cleared up.

- I'm really appreciating the various mecha in the show, destroids, etc, even the Zentradi stuff. Glaugs rule! I love different variants/schemes for the VF-1. Seems like now the focus is just getting out the next valk evolution and calling it "better" ala the stats treadmill.

- Kamjin cracks me up with his reckless ways. As a child, I just remember "Khyron" being a less funny a-hole. 

That's it for now.

 

 

Well usual anime now run from 12 to 25 episodes, then extend it by seasons. The exceptions are the long running manga series like Conan, Dragon Ball, Naruto, One Piece. Those spanned hundreds of episodes.

I remember reading about Macross only planned 27 episodes, the last being "Ai wa nagareru" which was the attack of the Macross along with Britai, Laplamiz and Kamujin's fleets. There was an additional order of 9 episodes. Have to verify that again though.

Macross 7 had 49 episodes... I felt it was too long. But I guess it was profitable enough in Japan that it had also 2 Encore Episodes, 2 Movies (Fleet of the Strongest Women and The Galaxy is calling me, and an additional OVA Series (Dynamite 7)

If there was something weird with the art was the Zentradi Ears... They become more elfin with each sequel... Milia... Mylene... Klan... Mirage... they are more like Zolan then Zentradi.

Yeah, it would be nice if there was a focus on the Destroid Pilots. We have only seen Hikaru pilot a Spartan and a Lt. Dern pilot a Tomahawk.

Protoculture is something I want to see in the future series. Why are there 0 survivors? Aren't some of the members of the Supervision Army that were brainwashed also protoculture?

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On 9/18/2017 at 10:36 PM, Sir Galahad® said:

I remember reading about Macross only planned 27 episodes, the last being "Ai wa nagareru" which was the attack of the Macross along with Britai, Laplamiz and Kamujin's fleets. There was an additional order of 9 episodes. Have to verify that again though.

As I recall, it was planned longer, then edited shorter because the sponsors wouldn't back the full run length, and then extended out again when the sponsors were all "This is selling like hotcakes we want more!"

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On 9/18/2017 at 11:36 PM, Sir Galahad® said:

I remember reading about Macross only planned 27 episodes, the last being "Ai wa nagareru" which was the attack of the Macross along with Britai, Laplamiz and Kamujin's fleets. There was an additional order of 9 episodes. Have to verify that again though.

The run was reduced several times during the show's planning stages, per Macross Perfect Memory.

Shoji Kawamori originally plotted Battle City Megaroad as a 52 episode series, which was reduced to 48 episodes before the sponsor went under.  After obtaining a new sponsor (Big West), the episode count got pared down to 39 and then to the 27 because that was all Big West was willing to pay for.

Once they saw the ratings from the first few episodes, Big West extended the run to 36 episodes.

 

 

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Macross 7 had 49 episodes... I felt it was too long. But I guess it was profitable enough in Japan that it had also 2 Encore Episodes, 2 Movies (Fleet of the Strongest Women and The Galaxy is calling me, and an additional OVA Series (Dynamite 7)

"Fleet of the Strongest Women" isn't a movie... it's an unaired episode, as it says a title card right at the beginning.  Most people lump it into Macross 7 Encore as a result.

 

 

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If there was something weird with the art was the Zentradi Ears... They become more elfin with each sequel... Milia... Mylene... Klan... Mirage... they are more like Zolan then Zentradi.

That's a very recent trend that only really started in Macross Frontier.

DYRL? gave the Zentradi Spock ears, but only some of them... most of them had human-looking ears, though the Macross Pachinko Fever animation retroactively gave the original series ones all Spock ears.  It was only the Zolans who had the huge, Record of Lodoss War elf ears.  Mylene's ears were a bit elongated, but rounded.  

It feels like there are a few characters screwing up the otherwise consistent application of the ear thing... some of which, I think, is post-facto assignment of species to characters.  Even in Macross the Ride, they stick to the earlier ear designs... Chelsea, Angers, and Naresuan all look like your standard TV/DYRL Zentradi, and Anri looks like a Dynamite 7 Zolan.  Maybe it's some artist fetish thing, since it seems to be only the Zentradi girls who are getting this elf ears thing, the men in the same shows largely don't seem to get it, and it feels like they decided that Reina and Michael are part-Zolan waaaaaaaaaay after the fact.

 

 

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Yeah, it would be nice if there was a focus on the Destroid Pilots. We have only seen Hikaru pilot a Spartan and a Lt. Dern pilot a Tomahawk.

Destroids are low-mobility cannon fodder though... and if you want to watch a ground mecha-snuff film, wouldn't it be easier to just go put on Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO 2: the Gravity Front? :p 

 

Quote

Protoculture is something I want to see in the future series. Why are there 0 survivors? Aren't some of the members of the Supervision Army that were brainwashed also protoculture?

Because their civilization collapsed half a million years ago and they've been on the run from their own creations ever since?  Mina Forte may or may not be one, at least, and Mikumo's technically a human-Protoculture bioandroid hybrid I guess.

(Or if you want to be annoyingly technical, the Zentradi are based on Protoculture, so technically you've seen loads of them... just, y'know, giant clones of them.)

We don't know how the Supervision Army replenishes its numbers... if they're using cloning of their original captured forces then there may still be some Protoculture left in the galaxy.  If they're "recruiting" from the populations of captured planets and from captured Zentradi crews, then it's another matter...

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20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That's a very recent trend that only really started in Macross Frontier.

DYRL? gave the Zentradi Spock ears, but only some of them... most of them had human-looking ears, though the Macross Pachinko Fever animation retroactively gave the original series ones all Spock ears.  It was only the Zolans who had the huge, Record of Lodoss War elf ears.  Mylene's ears were a bit elongated, but rounded.  

It feels like there are a few characters screwing up the otherwise consistent application of the ear thing... some of which, I think, is post-facto assignment of species to characters.  Even in Macross the Ride, they stick to the earlier ear designs... Chelsea, Angers, and Naresuan all look like your standard TV/DYRL Zentradi, and Anri looks like a Dynamite 7 Zolan.  Maybe it's some artist fetish thing, since it seems to be only the Zentradi girls who are getting this elf ears thing, the men in the same shows largely don't seem to get it, and it feels like they decided that Reina and Michael are part-Zolan waaaaaaaaaay after the fact.

I have to say though, I like the aesthetic choice to provide some visual distinction from humans. I mean, sure in SDFM Zentradi had a wider variety of natural Hair Colors and Skin tones, as well as different eye colors, but that wasn't all that reliable (Max's hair is blue. That's not natural). 

I feel like they haven't gone as in depth with character backstory, in Frontier and Delta, as they should have. I thought that was just sort of common practice in character design.

20 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Destroids are low-mobility cannon fodder though... and if you want to watch a ground mecha-snuff film, wouldn't it be easier to just go put on Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO 2: the Gravity Front? :p 

Or Watch MS Gundam: 08th MS Team. Still, I really like the destroids, and would like to see the Tomahawk get a bit more screen time and a chance to look awesome. Maybe that's just because I came to Macross through BattleTech rather than Robotech like so many others...

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2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

I have to say though, I like the aesthetic choice to provide some visual distinction from humans. I mean, sure in SDFM Zentradi had a wider variety of natural Hair Colors and Skin tones, as well as different eye colors, but that wasn't all that reliable (Max's hair is blue. That's not natural). 

IMO, it kinda defeats the point... the whole thing about the Zentradi in the original SDF Macross series was that they were virtually identical to humanity on a genetic level.  It would make sense that most of them look essentially human, as they did in the series, and continue to do in most of the non-animated works.  Giving them all an obvious "I am an alien" trait feels a bit off-message.

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

I feel like they haven't gone as in depth with character backstory, in Frontier and Delta, as they should have. I thought that was just sort of common practice in character design.

They're working with a limited amount of airtime, so they have to prioritize... Macross Frontier did a pretty good job with its main cast's backstories, less so with the supporting cast for whom detailed backstories are less necessary.  Macross Delta dropped the ball bigtime, because its main cast was several times the size of the ones from previous shows without a proportional increase in airtime.

 

2 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

Or Watch MS Gundam: 08th MS Team. Still, I really like the destroids, and would like to see the Tomahawk get a bit more screen time and a chance to look awesome. Maybe that's just because I came to Macross through BattleTech rather than Robotech like so many others...

Nah, Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team is too upbeat... after all, the titular team there are operating Gundams and therefore aren't cannon fodder.  (Never mind Shiro's Invinci-Ball from the first episode.)  If you want to focus on something like destroids, you need the kind of soul-crushing cannon fodder experience you can get from Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO's three OVAs: The Hidden One Year WarApocalypse 0079, and Gravity Front.  That show's so serious about its death toll that by the third OVA a literal shinigami is one of the show's regulars.  Gravity Front's first two episodes are probably the best facsimile of the Destroids one time to shine in the Unification Wars, when land warfare robots were actually terrifyingly OP instead of Made of Explodium.

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3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

IMO, it kinda defeats the point... the whole thing about the Zentradi in the original SDF Macross series was that they were virtually identical to humanity on a genetic level.  It would make sense that most of them look essentially human, as they did in the series, and continue to do in most of the non-animated works.  Giving them all an obvious "I am an alien" trait feels a bit off-message.

I mean, spock ears would be fine, just to make you go, you're not human, but close enough. I wasn't thinking about the holy wah elf ears thing. I mean, That thing that Klan and Mirage have going on suggests more than just Zentradi blood is in the mix. But I get where you're coming from.

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They're working with a limited amount of airtime, so they have to prioritize... Macross Frontier did a pretty good job with its main cast's backstories, less so with the supporting cast for whom detailed backstories are less necessary.  Macross Delta dropped the ball bigtime, because its main cast was several times the size of the ones from previous shows without a proportional increase in airtime.

Right, I meant just as a matter of course. When I try to write, I plan out my character's backstories before I ever start writing them.

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Nah, Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team is too upbeat... after all, the titular team there are operating Gundams and therefore aren't cannon fodder.  (Never mind Shiro's Invinci-Ball from the first episode.)  If you want to focus on something like destroids, you need the kind of soul-crushing cannon fodder experience you can get from Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO's three OVAs: The Hidden One Year WarApocalypse 0079, and Gravity Front.  That show's so serious about its death toll that by the third OVA a literal shinigami is one of the show's regulars.  Gravity Front's first two episodes are probably the best facsimile of the Destroids one time to shine in the Unification Wars, when land warfare robots were actually terrifyingly OP instead of Made of Explodium.

I would definitely say it starts off upbeat. I can't speak about IGLOO as I haven't seen it.

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Gundam schmundam!

I like 8th-MS Team, but it and every Gundam anime are all meh.

If you want really awesome destroids or destroids-like stories, battles and stuff, you go watch VOTOMS...

:hail:

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Ranka Lee is another inconsistency I guess. She is Quarter Zentradi (But I think so is Mirage). And besides Ranka, which Zentradi had moving hair?

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On 8/30/2017 at 11:26 AM, Hiryu said:

- Kamjin cracks me up with his reckless ways. As a child, I just remember "Khyron" being a less funny a-hole. 

You'll see that with a lot of characters. Many things about SDFM were toned down or removed altogether during the production of Robotech. There is a lot to go through here. Also some characters motivations and attitudes just don't make sense outside of Japan, so there's that too. 

On 8/30/2017 at 11:26 AM, Hiryu said:

- I'm really appreciating the various mecha in the show, destroids, etc, even the Zentradi stuff. Glaugs rule! I love different variants/schemes for the VF-1. Seems like now the focus is just getting out the next valk evolution and calling it "better" ala the stats treadmill.

Well... SDFM had a lot of great mecha, and that's actually how I came to Macross. Many of the iconic designs from BattleTech (the Genesis of the MechWarrior game franchise) were borrowed from Macross. It's partly why I like to see destroids so much. I just have a soft spot in my heart for the MBR-04-MkVI Tomahawk (or as BT knows it, the WHM-6R Warhammer), so much so that, against the advice of many toy reviewers, I purchased the Yamato offering. Hell I even bought a couple of the Robotech Tactics boxes, so I could have my Unseen favorites as minis. So yeah, the Mecha is great. Though later Macross productions have contributed my absolute favorites, the Y/VF-19/A and the VF-11B/C Thunderbolt, VF-1's were my first real toy purchases (My VF-1S Focker DRYL with Strike and Super Parts has a place of Honor in my collection alongside my MBR-04-MkVI Tomahawk).

 

Keep watching, the show is much better by itself, rather than crammed into Robotech.

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On 9/20/2017 at 10:22 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Destroids are low-mobility cannon fodder though... and if you want to watch a ground mecha-snuff film, wouldn't it be easier to just go put on Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO 2: the Gravity Front? :p 

You misunderstand. We want to see a mecha-snuff film with MONSTERS in it.

 

On 9/21/2017 at 7:14 AM, Valkyrie Driver said:

(Max's hair is blue. That's not natural). 

IT IS NATURAL IN ANIME WORLD!

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On 9/23/2017 at 2:04 AM, JB0 said:

You misunderstand. We want to see a mecha-snuff film with MONSTERS in it.

And Tomahawks. 

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17 hours ago, Valkyrie Driver said:

And Tomahawks. 

Defenders and Spartans too.

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On 9/24/2017 at 12:00 AM, Master Dex said:

I guess...

14 hours ago, JB0 said:

Defenders and Spartans too.

Not my favorites so... I guess they can come too.

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Honestly, I kind of like ALL the original series destroids. Certainly, I hve favorites, but they're all just cool.

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I just have a special connection with the Tomahawk is all. I mean, you're not wrong JB0, they are all cool. 

The Tomahawk though strikes me as the one Destroid that would have been the most useful and most likely design to survive to the current in universe era. Except the Monster, but that's more because the monster is a walking artillery company, not because of it's combat utility.

Though it seems like the Cheyenne is the Destroid of Choice for Frontier and Delta...

 

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On 9/21/2017 at 10:30 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

IMO, it kinda defeats the point... the whole thing about the Zentradi in the original SDF Macross series was that they were virtually identical to humanity on a genetic level.  It would make sense that most of them look essentially human, as they did in the series, and continue to do in most of the non-animated works.  Giving them all an obvious "I am an alien" trait feels a bit off-message.

 

They're working with a limited amount of airtime, so they have to prioritize... Macross Frontier did a pretty good job with its main cast's backstories, less so with the supporting cast for whom detailed backstories are less necessary.  Macross Delta dropped the ball bigtime, because its main cast was several times the size of the ones from previous shows without a proportional increase in airtime.

 

Nah, Mobile Suit Gundam: 08th MS Team is too upbeat... after all, the titular team there are operating Gundams and therefore aren't cannon fodder.  (Never mind Shiro's Invinci-Ball from the first episode.)  If you want to focus on something like destroids, you need the kind of soul-crushing cannon fodder experience you can get from Mobile Suit Gundam MS IGLOO's three OVAs: The Hidden One Year WarApocalypse 0079, and Gravity Front.  That show's so serious about its death toll that by the third OVA a literal shinigami is one of the show's regulars.  Gravity Front's first two episodes are probably the best facsimile of the Destroids one time to shine in the Unification Wars, when land warfare robots were actually terrifyingly OP instead of Made of Explodium.

I love MS IGLOO. I've rewatched the first 2 but not Gravity Front because it is just too depressing.

As for the Zentraedi ears etc, I don't think about it too much. I just want interesting characters, great story/music and awesome mechas.

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