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26 minutes ago, seti88 said:

ok now get Lucas back onto 10,11,12 plz!!!

Just let it die.  Kill it if you have to... goodness knows J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson tried.

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32 minutes ago, seti88 said:

And yeah I don’t know how to describe this episode. It’s not great, not extremely terrible but...hmmm.

Considering the cluster duck it's been, and the time constraints one has to work with. And considering it's jj..it's probably better than could be expected. Which isn't raising the bar , by any means..

 

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9 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

goodness knows J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson tried.

Did they really?? Ok, tried what, exactly? I believe they're both the reason we have 2d flat ass SW now.

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I just find it ironic when critics bellyache that this movie jumps from place to place, and character interaction and development is only at a bare/functional minimum.

HELLO, that’s been JJ’s style since like forever!  He’s always prioritized plot over character.

Took critics long enough to figure that out. :rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Did they really?? Ok, tried what, exactly?

To kill it.

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I think some of us became quite annoyed and weary w bad robot since before Lost ended..:lol:

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1 minute ago, Seto Kaiba said:

To kill it.

Ok,ok, point taken:lol:

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So, it looks like the spoilers are true.

Much like AOTC, the middle movie (TLJ) mucked things up for the trilogy.

Moggy’s thoughts on how TLJ could have done better (SPOILERS TO TROS):

 

So, Rey is a Palpatine.

Rian should have done a ton of hinting that this was the case.

Make this one of the biggest reasons Luke doesn’t want to train Rey, even have Luke say outright that were she anyone else, he would train her.

Have Luke share the story about how his dad killed younglings and hunted down Jedi in hiding.

Make Luke explain that raising his blade to Kylo was yet another reminder how susceptible he was to the Dark side, just like his dad.

Make Luke’s exile more about him taking himself out of the equation for fear of embracing his dark tendencies (go after Kylo for vengeance?).

Have Luke ask Rey, “Can you live with that legacy?  A legacy that can fall prey to the Dark Side?”

All this looks like Luke is trying to mentally prepare Rey that she’s a Skywalker.

Then you pull the twist and have Luke say later on, “I’m NOT your father, Rey.  You’re not of Skywalker blood.”

Toss in Luke constantly referring to Kylo as “Ben,” and you could have at least better laid the groundwork for TROS.

 

 

Edited by Mog

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5 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

In a way I can't be too mad at JJ.  The Last Jedi answered every question The Force Awakens gave us without giving any new ones.  It was "the end."  Making another sequel after would be hard for anybody.

I maintain that TLJ is the real start of the trilogy that TFA should have been. TFA asks a lot of small, inconsequential questions, and TLJ was right to smack them down and give us some better, meatier questions (as far as to build future movies' themes around, anyway), namely how will the Force, or rather the legacy of the Jedi and the Sith, change? I don't know, but I'm down to find out. That's the kind of stuff I want to see, not Literally Just A New Hope Again. Like @Mommar said, getting rid of JJ Abrams's mystery boxes renders TFA almost completely void of any other substance.

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And TLJ did NOTHING to develop its new main leads.

Finn-Poe friendship?  No growth during TLJ.

Rey’s understandably off Jedi training, BUT. . . there were no “hints” in TLJ.

The problem with TLJ is that it’s disconnected from both the film that precedes it and the film the follows it.

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I feel no remorse for Abrams. He's the one that wrote the mystery box. Did he really expect Johnson to start opening the box and pulling stuff out of it, or even fill it? That's been Abrams' MO. Unless he has something for the box, other people actually have to open or fill the story for him (LOST probably being the most egregious example). They walked in without a plan so they used the "mystery box". Guess we're seeing the fallout of that idea now.

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Is it too early to have Favreau and Filoni reboot and reimagine the Sequel Trilogy? :ph34r:

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TLJ did develop Finn... he goes from a coward to potential hero (though Rose prevents him from becoming a martyr... which ultimately was kind of a shame). 

In defense of TFA being a mystery box, that's kind of what you want from a first leg of a trilogy. I think TFA could have been a really good start if they didn't do Starkiller Base and instead introduced the idea of weaponized hyperspeed. "Oh nos! They're taking moth-balled Star Destroyers and having them go hyperspeed into Republic military installations!" Then you want the second leg to answers minor questions and tease the bigger ones, then you want the third one to wrap it all up. JJ was supposed to be out after the first one so it was a solid strategy to let him create the mysteries. The problem is they hired a second director who was like "f*ck mystery" so that didn't really pan out. 

They need to reboot ALL of Star Wars. Start with a new Episode 1 where ObiWan gets a Padwan named Anakin instead of doing childhood Anakin and show the Clone Wars. Have Anakin go dark side so that he can help end the war. Then do the original trilogy again but with ONE death star that gets blown up in the sixth movie. Then redo the third trilogy with a coherent story. 

Edited by jenius

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10 minutes ago, jenius said:

TLJ did develop Finn... he goes from a coward to potential hero (though Rose prevents him from becoming a martyr... which ultimately was kind of a shame). 

In defense of TFA being a mystery box, that's kind of what you want from a first leg of a trilogy. I think TFA could have been a really good start if they didn't do Starkiller Base and instead introduced the idea of weaponized hyperspeed. "Oh nos! They're taking moth-balled Star Destroyers and having them go hyperspeed into Republic military installations!" Then you want the second leg to answers minor questions and tease the bigger ones, then you want the third one to wrap it all up. JJ was supposed to be out after the first one so it was a solid strategy to let him create the mysteries. The problem is they hired a second director who was like "f*ck mystery" so that didn't really pan out. 

They need to reboot ALL of Star Wars. Start with a new Episode 1 where ObiWan gets a Padwan named Anakin instead of doing childhood Anakin and show the Clone Wars. Have Anakin go dark side so that he can help end the war. Then do the original trilogy again but with ONE death star that gets blown up in the sixth movie. Then redo the third trilogy with a coherent story. 

I actually agree with all this. One thing I wish the SE’s would’ve done would be to digitally replace most Stormtroopers with regular Imperial Troops and only use Stormies sparingly and effectively, so they actually seem competent and threatening. Really, only the Snowtroopers and Deathtroopers seem somewhat effective and threatening.

IF they ever do what you suggest, I’d hope they would make Stormtroopers better.

Chris

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That massive glut of Stormies does tie back to the Imperial’s “Death Thru Attrition” war philosophy though.

Regarding your comment, @jenius, that’s “sorta” what the Machete Order does with the films (watch them in this order:  IV, V, II, III, then VI).

Edited by Mog

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So far the RT audience score is at 88% which is actually quite good.  Only 1280 responses so far though.

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5 hours ago, Mog said:

And TLJ did NOTHING to develop its new main leads.

Finn-Poe friendship?  No growth during TLJ.

I don't know that it necessarily had to develop unless it was going for a Finn/Poe romance thing for cheap Progressive!!! points.

That said, I agree that what each of them got individually wasn't satisfying. I see what the movie was going for, but the way it went about it wasn't nearly as strong as what the Rey and Kylo Ren arcs got.

5 hours ago, Mog said:

Rey’s understandably off Jedi training, BUT. . . there were no “hints” in TLJ.

The problem with TLJ is that it’s disconnected from both the film that precedes it and the film the follows it.

I'm guessing these points involve TRoS, so I'll leave them be until I see it, except to predict that:

I'd compare this trilogy to the Dark Knight trilogy, in a way. The first and third movies feel really closely tied to each other in theme and story. The middle movie, while being the best of the three, retroactively felt disconnected once the third film came out. Here, I feel like TRoS will feel a lot like TFA, which is to say it'll definitely be a JJ Abrams movie for better and for worse. TLJ, the middle entry, will be the most satisfying and my personal favorite.

5 hours ago, azrael said:

I feel no remorse for Abrams. He's the one that wrote the mystery box. Did he really expect Johnson to start opening the box and pulling stuff out of it, or even fill it? That's been Abrams' MO. Unless he has something for the box, other people actually have to open or fill the story for him (LOST probably being the most egregious example). They walked in without a plan so they used the "mystery box". Guess we're seeing the fallout of that idea now.

Precisely. It wasn't and never should have been Johnson's responsibility to resolve the problems Abrams created, especially when Abrams didn't have any corresponding solutions. That's probably the thing I hate most about his "mystery box" concept of storytelling: he just creates mystery for the sake of mystery. That's not to say he needs to have a concrete, fully realized resolution, but it's irresponsible storytelling to not have the slightest inkling of... anything.

5 hours ago, jenius said:

I think TFA could have been a really good start if they didn't do Starkiller Base and instead introduced the idea of weaponized hyperspeed. "Oh nos! They're taking moth-balled Star Destroyers and having them go hyperspeed into Republic military installations!" Then you want the second leg to answers minor questions and tease the bigger ones, then you want the third one to wrap it all up.

While I'm kind of "eh" on your specific points, I too think a chimera born of both films would be superior to what we have currently. As it is, I think TLJ doesn't have a firm enough base upon which to build, so I'd personally prefer something that just takes some of the character introductions and basic relationships from the first movie and gives Rian Johnson otherwise free reign to integrate them however he sees fit into a narrative that finds its way to the same ending as TLJ. I don't think it would be especially hard to do, considering there's so little substance to TFA.

...actually I really like the "fo lightspeed ramming things" premise. Dunno if I'd want it so much as to excise that ducking jaw-dropping scene from TLJ, but... it's a strong premise to work from.

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9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Just let it die.  Kill it if you have to... goodness knows J.J. Abrams and Rian Johnson tried.

haha i think disney is singing this song to SW fans....

 

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Lol.  At the end of the day, with over 40 years of fandom and expectations, this movie was never going to have it easy, but Abrams just guaranteed the Disney Wars trilogy to be as unlikable as possible...

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I had said a while back that JJ was brought back in to end this all as safely as possible and IMO he did exactly that.

I enjoyed it.  Could it have been better...probably.  Would it have been easier to make a better ending without having to retcon many of the nonsense from Ep 8...you betcha!

I think this was as best a course correction as we could have hoped for.  Heck....the best line and the biggest wink to the fans comes from Luke Skywalker....

Spoiler

Force Ghost Luke says as he intercepts Rey tossing Anakin's lightsaber into the flaming pile of Kylo's Tie Fighter (representing Johnson's TLJ/the wreckage to the fandom created by it?)......"that's no way to respect an ancient weapon of the Jedi"....(or something to that effect)

'nuff said! Amen to that brother!

It's been a long fun ride for the most part.....glad it is over....well, it's never really over.......(patiently awaits the next episode of the Baby Yoda Show!)....

 

Edited by jvmacross

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Wow, thanks jvm for reminding me what it was all about. Kinda feel melancholy abt all of it now.

Yeah, a big part of SW is over. :cray:

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6 hours ago, jenius said:

TLJ did develop Finn... he goes from a coward to potential hero (though Rose prevents him from becoming a martyr... which ultimately was kind of a shame). 

No. If anything he regresses in TLJ. In TFA he goes from coward running from the First Order to finding something worth fighting for to the point he was willing to take up a lightsaber to defend Rey.

TLJ sees him spending the entire movie either trying to run away like a coward or bumbling around like an idiot. The two times he gets to stand up on his own he gets upstaged by BB-8 in an ATST shell and by his forced tacked on romantic interest Rose.

 

Yes. The romance between Rose and Finn was forced. The entire film he just wants to reunite with Rey meanwhile Rose is just constantly fangirling for his former FO BBC.

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  1. Empire Strikes Back
  2. A New Hope
  3. Return of the Jedi
  4. Revenge of the Sith
  5. The Rise of Skywalker
  6. The Force Awakens
  7. Attack of the Clones
  8. The Phantom Menace
  9. The Last Jedi

It was a toss up between TPM and TLJ....I placed The Last Jedi at No. 9 only because it now seems completely meaningless...at least The Phantom Menance introduced the concept of "The Chosen One" which....

Spoiler

....according to what I believe Anakin stated to Rey during her most dire moment of need...."be the Chosen One to bring back Balance to the Force like I once did...."  That line alone was quite possibly the worst line in TROS......it basically was a BS way to not completely toss aside Anakin's entire story arc....yes, he was the Chosen One....except apparently there can be many...when the "Force" requires it I guess..........The battle between good and evil can never end...

 

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Since we already watched this week's Mando episode, I exposed my kiddos to a great example of coherent story-telling with logical character moments, ridiculously fun action sets, and an understanding of the story that came before it. 

All while adding its own quality moments to the existing lore:

1358304533_KnightingCeremony.JPG.1bda1155453a6f4831cf142d1bd3e74a.JPG

532072884_KnightingCeremony2.JPG.75b0de89d795838cf4df30b15037fcf0.JPG

Still freakin' good all these years later!

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Looking forward to finding out who exactly and where exactly.....

Spoiler

...all those Sith Worshippers are and where they came from.....made absolutely no sense, there was what appeared to be thousands....I can only assume there will be an explanation in some comic or book.....

...and the KOR....ugh....ultimately just punks....

Those Sith Worshippers apparently all died?  No way right?  Right?!?! :rolleyes:

 

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Just watched it, I liked it.

Not hard to find something bad in anything.

Just went in expecting 50/50 chance I would hate it (heard about time he mixed reviews) .....turned out I liked it, didn't waste my money or time.

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Spoiler

All the Jedi voices heard.....

https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/12/20/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-jedi-voice-actors-ahsoka-obi-wan-qui-gon-kanan

 

Anakin Skywalker (Hayden Christensen)

anakin-skywalker2-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

The Chosen One who was prophesied to bring balance in the Force knew plenty about going toe to toe with the Emperor. Although he fell to the Dark Side in Revenge of the Sith and became Palpatine’s deadly apprentice, Darth Vader, Anakin was redeemed by his son Luke before his death in Return of the Jedi. He was last seen taking his place alongside Yoda and his former Master and friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi, as a Force Ghost at the end of Return of the Jedi.

Luminara Unduli (voiced by Olivia D’abo in The Clone Wars)

luminara_c05b2971-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

A skilled Mirialan Jedi Master who lived during the waning days of the Republic, Luminara fought many battles during the Clone Wars alongside her Padawan, Barriss Offee, commanding the 41st Elite Corps in the Grand Army of the Republic. She was captured by the Empire after the issue of Order 66 and was secretly executed in Imperial custody. To add insult to injury, her likeness was used as a trap to lure in other Jedi survivors who believed she had survived Order 66, until Kanan Jarrus and his band of rebels uncovered the Empire’s scheme and finally laid her memory to rest. She was portrayed in Attack of the Clones by Mary Oyaya.

Ahsoka Tano (Ashley Eckstein)

ahsoka-tano-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

Anakin Skywalker’s Padawan, a Torgruta, earned her stripes in the trenches of the Clone Wars fighting alongside Anakin and Obi-Wan, but found her faith in the Jedi Order tested during the conflict, after she was framed for a crime she didn’t commit. After her name was cleared, she chose not to rejoin the Jedi, striking out on her own path and eventually becoming an invaluable rebel asset after the rise of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi Order. She was last seen alive in Star Wars Rebels, around the time of the Battle of Endor - although her fate after that point is unclear - but if she’s speaking to Rey through the Force, it seems safe to assume Ahsoka died at some point between the events of Rebels and The Rise of Skywalker. Maybe we'll see her fate play out in The Mandalorian?

Aayla Secura (voiced by Jennifer Hale in The Clone Wars)

aayla-secura-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

A Twi'lek Jedi Master who served as a commander in the Clone Wars, Aayla fought on many fronts while leading the 327th Star Corps and their clone commander Bly, who turned on her and shot her in the back after the announcement of Order 66. Her death was shown onscreen in Revenge of the Sith, where she was played by Amy Allen.

Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson)

Mace-Windu-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

Between his distinctive purple lightsaber and aggressive combat style, Mace Windu was one of the most formidable Jedi Masters of his generation, but his trust in Anakin Skywalker proved to be his undoing. After growing suspicious of Chancellor Palpatine, Mace chose to confront the Sith Lord himself, attempting to kill him. When Anakin intervened on Palpatine’s behalf, Darth Sidious turned his Force lightning on Mace and knocked him from a window, killing him. This attack allowed the Chancellor to declare the Jedi as traitors and enact Order 66, leading to their demise.

Obi-Wan Kenobi (Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness)

obi-wan-ewan-mcgregor-alec-guinness-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

Obi-Wan arguably provided Rey with her first real Force encounter - it was his voice she heard when she first picked up Luke’s lightsaber in The Force Awakens, telling her “these are your first steps.” (Those words are mirrored here by his observation, "these are your final steps, Rey - rise and take them.") The noble Jedi Master became one with the Force back in A New Hope during a duel with Darth Vader, offering enough of a distraction to allow Luke, Han, and Leia to escape the Death Star. Still, he remained a constant fixture throughout the Original Trilogy, providing Luke with guidance and wisdom as a Force Ghost. Oddly, The Rise of Skywalker uses both Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness’ voices in this scene, despite the fact that they’re the same person and Rey didn’t meet Obi-Wan in either his young or old guise - we’re guessing it’s just a way to pay homage to Guinness’s beloved role in addition to McGregor’s, but plot-wise, it doesn’t make much sense.

Yoda (Frank Oz)

yoda-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

The mischievous and mighty Jedi Master has been a welcome presence throughout all three trilogies, always ready with some semi-indecipherable wisdom for each new generation of Jedi. He made an epic return as a Force Ghost in The Last Jedi to once again offer some much-needed advice to Luke, even decades after he became one with the Force in Return of the Jedi.

Adi Gallia (voiced by Angelique Perrin in The Clone Wars)

adigallia-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

A member of the Jedi High Council, Adi Gallia was a Tholothian Jedi Master who also served as a general in the Clone Wars, notably fighting alongside Obi-Wan in his hunt for Darth Maul. She was killed by Maul’s brother, Savage Opress, during the conflict. She was played by Gin Clarke in live-action for The Phantom Menace.

Kanan Jarrus (Freddie Prinze Jr.)

kanan-jarrus-freddie-prinze--720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

One of the few Jedi who survived Order 66, Kanan went into hiding following the destruction of the Jedi Order, choosing to use a blaster and keep his lightsaber disassembled to avoid revealing his true identity - at least until he encountered a Force-sensitive orphan kid, Ezra Bridger, and chose to train him as his Padawan. Kanan led a band of rebels against the Empire for years following the fall of the Republic, winning many victories despite suffering many losses (including his sight). He died sacrificing his life to save his fellow rebels, and became part of the Cosmic Force, manifesting himself as a loth-wolf to Ezra following his death.

Qui-Gon Jinn (Liam Neeson)

Qui-Gon-Jinn-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

Obi-Wan’s master was something of a maverick in his lifetime, pushing the Jedi to train Anakin Skywalker despite his age and inability to control his emotions. Qui-Gon died in a duel with Darth Maul, but was avenged by Obi-Wan, who cut the Sith apprentice in half (but, as we later discovered, wouldn’t succeed in killing Maul until years later). Qui-Gon taught Yoda, and later Obi-Wan, how to retain their identities and manifest themselves as a Force Ghost after death, communing with Obi-Wan during his years in exile on Tatooine.

Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill)

luke-skywalker-720x405.jpg?fit=bounds&width=640&height=480

This one's a no-brainer, since Luke appeared earlier in the film, but we figured we'd include him anyway. Rey’s mentor and the hero of the Original Trilogy became one with the Force in The Last Jedi following his impressive Force-projection showdown with Kylo Ren. He appeared to his protege in her hour of need in The Rise of Skywalker, urging her not to go into hiding on Ahch-To as he did, but to embrace her destiny and take on Emperor Palpatine. Both Luke and Leia were aware of Rey’s lineage as Palpatine’s granddaughter, and chose to train her in the ways of the Force regardless, knowing that her inherent goodness was more than a match for her questionable bloodline - which made her choice to take on their family name as her own at the end of the film all the more poignant.

 
Spoiler

Interesting omission........Ezra Bridger...still alive or not one with the Force?  Will he show up in some live-action show?

Same with Ahsoka.....guess she dies...but when?  Could she show up in The Mandalorian?  Obi-Wan team-up?

:unknw:

 

Edited by jvmacross

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Oh, if you've got 1.5 hours to spare, and I know at least some of you are fans of his, Moviebob came out recently with this. My tl;dr of it: "Star Wars is a good movie, fight me."

I mean honestly it does get kind of long in the tooth, hard not to do that at 1.5 hours, and I find him kind of insufferable at times, but anyway, me makes some interesting points at least.

 

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1 hour ago, sh9000 said:

6DA2D421-5CED-40AC-B918-1FBCE2AF27AF.jpeg.1dcda979913ab52909b3a1ff9397e489.jpeg

But who here (or anyone who would buy this) doesn't already have the first 8 movies on Blu-ray already?

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34 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Oh, if you've got 1.5 hours to spare, and I know at least some of you are fans of his, Moviebob came out recently with this. My tl;dr of it: "Star Wars is a good movie, fight me."

I mean honestly it does get kind of long in the tooth, hard not to do that at 1.5 hours, and I find him kind of insufferable at times, but anyway, me makes some interesting points at least.

 

LOL...who still needs to be "sold" on Star Wars being "really that good"? :lol:  

Not only has it dated well...stood the test of time....is still relevant....and kickstarted the greatest franchise of all time!

Additionally, not much else that has come after it...in terms of its sequels, prequels...has been able to match it

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DVD’s of the first 6 episodes (when they went on sale), including non-anamorphic copies of the Original Trilogy.

Have all the rest available via streaming (Netflix and Disney+).

Would probably buy Rogue One, but again easy access via streaming.

The only hard thing to get via streaming is the Genndy T. Clone Wars microseries.

So, doubtful I’d buy that blu ray pack.

Edited by Mog

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12 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

But who here (or anyone who would buy this) doesn't already have the first 8 movies on Blu-ray already?

Was thinking the same thing.....I will buy the stand alone release of TROS to complete my collection of sequel movies....

The only "fancy" set I would sort of buy again...would be an official release of all of the OT films as they were presented on screen on their day of release

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