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This was bound to happen...gray market VF's?


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On 9/15/2020 at 8:50 PM, Slave IV said:

They are going to make I guess is more accurate unless someone knows different and got theirs already...

 

So I took the bait and put an order in for this Angel Bird KO. Says it “should” ship by the end of the forth quarter. I’ll keep y’all posted. 

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1 hour ago, sjoebarry said:

So I took the bait and put an order in for this Angel Bird KO. Says it “should” ship by the end of the forth quarter. I’ll keep y’all posted. 

I hope you get. 
 

How did you set up a Tabao account. There are items there that I want but have no clue on how to get them.

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2 hours ago, sjoebarry said:

So I took the bait and put an order in for this Angel Bird KO. Says it “should” ship by the end of the forth quarter. I’ll keep y’all posted. 

Cool! Yeah, I’m not worried about it but will be happy when they arrive. I’ve had a GigaPower Grimlock throne preordered for maybe a couple years now, lol. Not worried about that either. 

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2 minutes ago, sjoebarry said:

Used this site:

https://tbfocus.com/zoom/english-taobao-categories
no clue if it’ll work but I gave it a shot. 

Thanks for the link.

I’ll give a shot. If it works my wallet Is about to experience pain like never before.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...
On 9/20/2020 at 8:23 PM, nightmareB4macross said:

Thanks for the link.

I’ll give a shot. If it works my wallet Is about to experience pain like never before.

yoybuy.com have much better review on trusted pilot. I have not used any of these agent, but I am thinking about trying out yoybuy.com

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Has anyone heard anything new about this “Valkyrie Factory” they teased the release of all those VF-1A’s and a VF-31J and then nothing.  I am not liking the fact that the VF-1J super sets have creeped north of $150 USD on eBay and sold out everywhere else......wouldn’t mind picking up a Premium Finish Valkyrie even if it is a KO.

twich

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2 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Could also be COVID-related shipping issues. Apparently hiring containers going out of China right now is difficult and expensive.

They might just be waiting for when they can ship things out without destroying their profit margin.

That must be some profit margin!.....no costs in development, licensing, and most likely are paying sweatshop wages...lol

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32 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

That must be some profit margin!.....no costs in development, licensing, and most likely are paying sweatshop wages...lol

Manufacturing isn't free, they do have costs. Eating $30 extra in shipping costs on every single unit isn't going to help things.

Plus people may have noticed exchange rates are going down for the dollar, which would also be hurting them.

Edited by Sanity is Optional
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3 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Manufacturing isn't free, they do have costs. Eating $30 extra in shipping costs on every single unit isn't going to help things.

Plus people may have noticed exchange rates are going down for the dollar, which would also be hurting them.

Of course, which is why I mentioned "sweat shop wages"...perhaps it was too subtle for you?.....but you obviously missed the point.....their "profit margin" is completely based on not having had fronted any of the real costs of getting these toys produced in the first place......sorry, but why would anyone have any sympathy for whatever "hurt" they may be feeling these days...covid or not....especially since their profits have been ill-gotten from the start

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4 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

Of course, which is why I mentioned "sweat shop wages"...perhaps it was too subtle for you?.....but you obviously missed the point.....their "profit margin" is completely based on not having had fronted any of the real costs of getting these toys produced in the first place......sorry, but why would anyone have any sympathy for whatever "hurt" they may be feeling these days...covid or not....especially since their profits have been ill-gotten from the start

In case you didn't realize, they're probably paying similar sweat shop wages as Bandai and Arcadia do. Maybe a bit lower due to the lower quality/tolerances of the finished product (which means lower rejection rates), but the worker wages are likely quite similar.

Don't delude yourself to thinking that anyone manufacturing in China is paying a decent wage.

Edited by Sanity is Optional
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23 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

In case you didn't realize, they're probably paying similar sweat shop wages as Bandai and Arcadia do. Maybe a bit lower due to the lower quality/tolerances of the finished product (which means lower rejection rates), but the worker wages are likely quite similar.

Don't delude yourself to thinking that anyone manufacturing in China is paying a decent wage.

Again.....the bit about the cost of production, via labor was alluded to at the end of my initial post....where am I "deluding" myself about any other company's more generous wages?  yep, no where......  You totally are just pulling that one out of your arse......the bottomline is that the major costs in developing the Yamato/Arcadia VF-1 were already incurred by Yamato/Arcadia, thus the profits are immediately gained since they are just skipping all that and going right into just producing them and getting them to market.....not sure how else you could try and spin that...the KO team is skipping development, licensing and to some extent marketing and going straight to just manufacturing and selling.....how can that not be as close to 100% profit as you can get?  Again, I am not absolving any other producer from not taking advantage of cheap Chinese labor, that was never the point.....I'm just saying there should be no tears lost for Valkyrie Factory for "losing out" on profits that they do not deserve in the first place

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At this point I'm just going to assume you have a hate-on for greymarket stuff and are only replying to this topic to vent it at anyone who doesn't share your opinions.

You're also significantly underestimating the cost of actual production if you think that they're raking in 100% profit. Plastic costs money, molds cost money, injection costs money, hiring people to assemble and paint cost money. Despite your assumptions, the cost of production is a much larger factor than the cost of development when it comes to these figures. Just look at how Arcadia's costs have gone up on designs where they already have both designs and molds!

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Also please keep in mind that even though KO do not need to spend the other cost associated with a official product (Yamato/Arcadia ).. 

They do still need to sell it at a lower cost than the official product.   The higher the selling price the higher the profit, right??   But since they sells these close to $100 less than the official product . their profit cant be that great.:wacko:

Official VF-1S Hikaru Premium Finish  = 28,380 yen before shipping

KO VF VF-1S Hikaru Premium Finish = $164 Shipped 

 

Official VF-1J Millia Premium Finish  = 28,380 yen before shipping

KO VF-1J Millia Premium Finish = $130 Shipped 

 

That's around $150 difference in selling price..  

 

 

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2 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

At this point I'm just going to assume you have a hate-on for greymarket stuff and are only replying to this topic to vent it at anyone who doesn't share your opinions.

You're also significantly underestimating the cost of actual production if you think that they're raking in 100% profit. Plastic costs money, molds cost money, injection costs money, hiring people to assemble and paint cost money. Despite your assumptions, the cost of production is a much larger factor than the cost of development when it comes to these figures. Just look at how Arcadia's costs have gone up on designs where they already have both designs and molds!

Nope, happen to own a Valkyrie Factory item.....I just have no sympathy for them or any other KO outfit for "losing out" on sales during covid or any other time....

Again, you are just speaking out of your arse...if you had any comprehension ability, you would have understood that "as close to 100% profit as you can get" does not mean 100% profit...duh!

001.jpg

 

But...but...Arcadia and all legit licensees also have the same, if not higher, production costs in addition to all the process and associated costs that goes before they even get to that point....again....you fail to see the fact that the bootlegger just has to concern themselves with the making and shipping part of the entire process.....not sure how to make that any clearer for you....in the bootleg scenario...the profit will be purely incumbered only by production/shipping costs and perhaps some marketing.....

nah....costs are up because they are making way less of them now than ever before.....and that in itself does not help them if they also have to lose out any potential sales from bootlegs....

I have no "Hate-on" for "grey market" items.....I just don't feel bad if they lose any "profits"...However, I do feel bad for legit licensees if their sales are hurt by KOs....there has been no proof that 3P would care to produce Macross in the absence of companies like Arcadia or Bandai......you can probably count all 3P Macross releases in one hand...

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$130 VF-1

$13 of that is eBay fee

~$10 of that is shipping (or at least used to be shipping, based on ShowZStore Prices)

How much do you think it costs to produce the injection molded runners?

How much for the metal parts?

How much for the assembly?

The painting?

The packaging/stickers?

The QA? (Even these will have some minimal level of QA/parts rejection just due to things that can't be assembled)

The manufacturer's profit margin, as it's unlikely they're using in-house manufacturing?

I'd guess the per-item cost would be at least $40 to Valkyrie Factory, that's before accounting for the NRE (molds, generating CAD files/drawings). They're not 1:1 recasts of Yamato/Arcadia, at best they might use a few cast-off runners.

 

They're a business at the end of the day, and as a KO factory they'll absolutely shut down if they're not making money rather than eat a loss in the name of customer service.

If the profit per unit dips too far, of course they're going to delay release, or just outright cancel. They're in this for the money.

 

Anyone who thinks their profit margin on these is more than 50% should do some research on what it costs to commission manufacturing/assembly runs.

Edited by Sanity is Optional
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14 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

$130 VF-1

$13 of that is eBay fee

~$10 of that is shipping (or at least used to be shipping, based on ShowZStore Prices)

How much do you think it costs to produce the injection molded runners?

How much for the metal parts?

How much for the assembly?

The painting?

The packaging/stickers?

The QA? (Even these will have some minimal level of QA/parts rejection just due to things that can't be assembled)

The manufacturer's profit margin, as it's unlikely they're using in-house manufacturing?

I'd guess the per-item cost would be at least $40 to Valkyrie Factory, that's before accounting for the NRE (molds, generating CAD files/drawings). They're not 1:1 recasts of Yamato/Arcadia, at best they might use a few cast-off runners.

 

They're a business at the end of the day, and as a KO factory they'll absolutely shut down if they're not making money rather than eat a loss in the name of customer service.

If the profit per unit dips too far, of course they're going to delay release, or just outright cancel. They're in this for the money.

 

Anyone who thinks their profit margin on these is more than 50% should do some research on what it costs to commission manufacturing/assembly runs.

I'm with Sanity on this. My company designs and manufactures from a idea to final product. I can assure you that even if I had a product to copy (short of the original CAD drawings) it will not impact by bottom line final per unit cost that much. And even with "stolen" CAD drawings you're still not looking at a massive savings. And if I were to copy something else than charge far less........you're not talking about fantastic margins. I would be shocked if VF's retail is double their dead nuts cost. Shocked. And double is what you shooting for as a minimum margin. Less than that you have to question why you're in business at all. Unless your selling zillions of units. Which in this example is not the case.

Edited by sqidd
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My day-job mostly consists of doing design work. 

Most of that design work isn't coming up with the initial CAD model, it's doing the tolerance analysis and putting together the drawing packets to actually produce something from the CAD models.

I might spend a day modifying an existing assembly for a new project, and then 3x as much time making the drawing packet for the modified parts.

If I were to copy an existing part, sure I can get the basic model into CAD, but I still have to do all the tolerance analysis and drawings regardless

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