This was bound to happen...gray market VF's?

[treatment]

2 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

Stealing is stealing. Legal technicalities...whatever. Again, I don't care other than to point out there is no need to talk about who is morally better than who in this thread. If the KO turns out good and you want to buy it, go for it! If you won't buy kos under any circumstance, fine but don't need to act like it's because you are more moral than others. That is all.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue in here.

Are you really trying to justify the KO/Bootleggers by using the lawsuit between BW and HG? 

You're really going off the rails if you're really just trying to do that.

 

[Slave IV]

5 minutes ago, treatment said:

I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue in here.

Are you really trying to justify the KO/Bootleggers by using the lawsuit between BW and HG? 

You're really going off the rails if you're really just trying to do that.

 

Actually, I'm just trying to say people shouldn't be judging other people and I'm just interested in the final product but I see now that it's going to happen one way or another so it's all good. NBD.

[jenius]

What an odd straw man argument about knock offs and Harmony Gold. It's like apples and potatos.

[Slave IV]

Haha, yeah...Chinese manufacturers must abide by international law or else they are thieves, but then none of that applies to other international licensing laws just because. OK, whatever. Again, I don't really care and just wanted to continue what was a fun and interesting conversation with the main goal of reducing the finger pointing and assumptions about other people but either I'll be called a thief for being ok with KOs or a loony for thinking if you want to use moral and legal arguments, that it goes both and every other way. Once again, I'm done and will continue to wait for reports on how these KOs turn out.

[Kanedas Bike]

8 hours ago, Slave IV said:

Back to the discussion of the validity of these items...

For those who claim the moral high horse stance, does that mean you do not buy Macross items outside of Japan that are not licensed by HG? Because if you do, you are stealing from HG and theft is theft, stealing is stealing, right? 

Just another reason why I don't take legal crutches seriously.

As others have pointed out since this quoted post, it's not at all a apt comparison.

We are talking about a group of individuals knowingly producing direct, illegitimately made, copies of a one or more company's actual work. At the very least they are stealing designs, they could also be using stolen (leftover) materials to make them.

KO Company producing copies of stolen designs from Yamato/Arcadia and Bandai does not in any way shape or form equate to random stores selling toys to an international market. Did these stores sell stolen goods? No. Am I an international criminal for buying them? No.

Are you trying to say BW copied or stole work from HG? Because that's not true. Or that e-tailers selling to an international market stole something HG created? Because that two would be a falsehood.

C'mon, that's literally trying to throw something at the wall to see what sticks.

Oh, I did a rolling stop through a Stop sign today - if I must, then a criminal I be. But I didn't steal or make a direct copy of said sign to sell to another city or municipality at a much lower cost than official makers of "Stop" signs.

And yep, I'm personally still all about the moral high ground when it comes to this subject. "Producers" of these products = thieves and those willing supporting them = supporting thieves. Sorry, not sorry, if that offends anyone's sensibilities. I'm very comfortable with my stance in this matter. If that tickles some nerve then look inwards instead of using a really odd, probably incorrect, analogy to try and support your point about 'innovate or die' or 'make products in a country other than China' or have your products stolen.

-b.

[TheLoneWolf]

9 hours ago, Slave IV said:

For those who claim the moral high horse stance, does that mean you do not buy Macross items outside of Japan that are not licensed by HG? Because if you do, you are stealing from HG and theft is theft, stealing is stealing, right? 

Just another reason why I don't take legal crutches seriously.

Legally speaking, that's not a good analogy to make. While Big West, Bandai, et al. can't ship Macross toys outside of Japan, re-sellers in Japan (eg: HLJ) are under no such restriction. So if you buy a 1/60 VF-1S from HLJ and they ship it directly to you in the USA, then none of Harmony Gold's rights are infringed. In addition, these types of restrictions don't apply to private individuals with intent of keeping the goods in their private collections, since the damage to Harmony Gold is deemed negligible. That's why Harmony Gold hasn't sent HLJ any cease & desists, nor have they tried to shut down MacrossWorld's For Sale forum.

However, if store located in the USA, such as BigBad ToyStore, were to buy one hundred 1/60 VF-1S' from a re-seller in Japan, and then market those VF-1S' here in the USA, then Harmony Gold's rights would be infringed for two reasons. First, a Macross branded toy is being marketed in the USA without HG's approval. Second, as a large scale retailer, BBTS can't make the argument that they're simply engaging in a small, private transaction; their intent was clearly to resell those VF-1S' in the USA on a mass scale. As for a bit of trivia, BBTS did receive a cease & desist a while ago, which is why they now only sell Harmony Gold/Tatsunoko Production branded Macross toys.

On an unrelated note, why does the topic refer to these bootlegs as "gray market" toys? There's nothing gray market about them.

[Slave IV]

1 hour ago, TheLoneWolf said:

Legally speaking, that's not a good analogy to make. While Big West, Bandai, et al. can't ship Macross toys outside of Japan, re-sellers in Japan (eg: HLJ) are under no such restriction. So if you buy a 1/60 VF-1S from HLJ and they ship it directly to you in the USA, then none of Harmony Gold's rights are infringed. In addition, these types of restrictions don't apply to private individuals with intent of keeping the goods in their private collections, since the damage to Harmony Gold is deemed negligible. That's why Harmony Gold hasn't sent HLJ any cease & desists, nor have they tried to shut down MacrossWorld's For Sale forum.

However, if store located in the USA, such as BigBad ToyStore, were to buy one hundred 1/60 VF-1S' from a re-seller in Japan, and then market those VF-1S' here in the USA, then Harmony Gold's rights would be infringed for two reasons. First, a Macross branded toy is being marketed in the USA without HG's approval. Second, as a large scale retailer, BBTS can't make the argument that they're simply engaging in a small, private transaction; their intent was clearly to resell those VF-1S' in the USA on a mass scale. As for a bit of trivia, BBTS did receive a cease & desist a while ago, which is why they now only sell Harmony Gold/Tatsunoko Production branded Macross toys.

On an unrelated note, why does the topic refer to these bootlegs as "gray market" toys? There's nothing gray market about them.

I believe you have some law background so this is good info. As you pointed out, "the damage to HG is deemed negligible". So negligible stealing isn't stealing, right?

[Firefox]

Has the bootleg actually in the market? How's the quality and pricing then? 

[no3Ljm]

17 minutes ago, Firefox said:

Has the bootleg actually in the market? How's the quality and pricing then? 

As far as I can tell, Taobao links were posted from the previous pages. There's one post from a member here that shows photos of a KO Yamato Display Stand from someone on Facebook. And based on the comments via Facebook is that the item looks good. But none of the MWF members hasn't posted anything yet pertaining to the actual KO products nor bought them online. The only way to get them are thru Taobao. 

Check previous pages for some Taobao links. You can probably start from Page 8 going backwards since the last few pages were all about morals, legalities, and issues. 

 

[Xigfrid]

the KO stuff for Macross looks very rare or  only in a limited run quantity for the moment, nothing like the KO transformers

[chyll2]

2 minutes ago, Xigfrid said:

the KO stuff for Macross looks very rare or  only in a limited run quantity for the moment, nothing like the KO transformers

looks like something that people collect

[Xigfrid]

3 minutes ago, chyll2 said:

looks like something that people collect

And that scalpers are going to scalp!

[derex3592]

There is a guy here somewhere over in the model threads building the KO Fan Racer, he says it's not very good at all. Lots of work to get it to look as good as the Yamato run. Just FYI.  

 IMHO if "they" can't get a KO of a VERY simple injection molded plastic model kit right, how in the HELL would they get a 1/60 transforming Valk right? Yeh...I'm not wasting my money to find out....

[Slave IV]

1 hour ago, derex3592 said:

There is a guy here somewhere over in the model threads building the KO Fan Racer, he says it's not very good at all. Lots of work to get it to look as good as the Yamato run. Just FYI.  

 IMHO if "they" can't get a KO of a VERY simple injection molded plastic model kit right, how in the HELL would they get a 1/60 transforming Valk right? Yeh...I'm not wasting my money to find out....

How do you know "they" are all the same people? Is there evidence that there is only one group making Macross KOs? Even if it was the same group, there are way to many factors involved to say the quality of one product guarantees all other products will share the same quality for most companies producing anything. Especially when the basis is on one sample of one product. 

I kind of hope the quality ends up being terrible so I don't even have to consider getting any of them. If they end up as good as or better than official, they will be extremely tempting.

[easnoddy]

Just bought a TF knockoff of the GOD-02 (Bayformers Leader class Brawl KO) and own a TF buster prime KO. I'm very excited about the Brawl and wish the KO manufacturers would up-scale some of the other toys from that era (Bonecrusher and Blackout primarily).

I know that Takara/Hasbro has not lost any money on the transactions and could not care less about the collectibles market. I'm quite happy the Chinese KO manufacturers are keeping this market going.

The Arcadia situation is different because the molds are more recently in use. Also, it appears that the KO's may have forced Arcadia to release the M&M, which is a big plus.

[jvmacross]

5 hours ago, Xigfrid said:

And that scalpers are going to scalp!

...and 

 

[jvmacross]

2 hours ago, derex3592 said:

There is a guy here somewhere over in the model threads building the KO Fan Racer, he says it's not very good at all. Lots of work to get it to look as good as the Yamato run. Just FYI.  

 IMHO if "they" can't get a KO of a VERY simple injection molded plastic model kit right, how in the HELL would they get a 1/60 transforming Valk right? Yeh...I'm not wasting my money to find out....

No, I think that MWer recasted his own fan racer...it's a KO but not one of the Chinese KO's that people are getting all upset about....

I'm curious about the VF-1 KO, but I'm waiting for someone else to "waste" their money before I "waste" mine! 

[sh9000]

The guys that oversize MP and 3rd party Transformers should oversize the 1/60.  I'd buy a 1/30 VF-1.    The Bandai 1/35 might not even be released.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, sh9000 said:

The guys that oversize MP and 3rd party Transformers should oversize the 1/60.  I'd buy a 1/30 VF-1.    The Bandai 1/35 might not even be released.

 

 

OK...maybe 79 dollars which is what I paid for the MPP-10! 

[spacemanoeuvres]

Would def pickup a 1/30-1/35 VF-1 or two. 

[kajnrig]

YOU FOOLS!

 

[no3Ljm]

17 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

YOU FOOLS!

 

WE WANT SOMETHING THAT TRANSFORMS. 

 

[sh9000]

3 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

WE WANT SOMETHING THAT TRANSFORMS. 

 

Yep.

[kajnrig]

3 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

WE WANT SOMETHING THAT TRANSFORMS. 

 

3 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

Yep.

*sigh* You people and your trivial things like "transformation" and "articulation" and "tampo" and "high quality." 

[no3Ljm]

45 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

*sigh* You people and your trivial things like "transformation" and "articulation" and "tampo" and "high quality." 

*Sigh*   It's not even "trivial". It's because you replied a non-transforming kit to a dream oversized 1/60 Valk. You basically ruined everyone's dream and even called us a fool. 

Shame on you for being part of this group too. Deep inside you know you want a high-quality transforming articulated tampo-filled oversized Valkyrie. 

 

[kajnrig]

^ Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic/facetious. It seems that yet again, the internet strikes!

...also

1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

Deep inside you know you want a high-quality transforming articulated tampo-filled oversized Valkyrie.

*looks over at DX YF-29*

Shut up, b-baka! It's not like I even like them or anything...!

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

*Sigh*   It's not even "trivial". It's because you replied a non-transforming kit to a dream oversized 1/60 Valk. You basically ruined everyone's dream and even called us a fool. 

Shame on you for being part of this group too. Deep inside you know you want a high-quality transforming articulated tampo-filled oversized Valkyrie. 

 

...that costs 10 bucks! 

[no3Ljm]

7 hours ago, kajnrig said:

^ Sorry, I was trying to be sarcastic/facetious. It seems that yet again, the internet strikes!

...also

*looks over at DX YF-29*

Shut up, b-baka! It's not like I even like them or anything...!

Hahaha!  Make sure that when you glanced back on your DX YF-29... wait. It's the YF-29 and not VF-19, right? Because the VF-19 is more tampo-filled than YF-29.  Anyways, make sure that when you glanced back, think of it oversized too.  

7 hours ago, jvmacross said:

...that costs 10 bucks! 

Cheers to that! 

C'mon KO Companies, show us that High-quality Transforming Articulated Tampo-filled Oversized Valkyrie now! Pronto!

 

[no3Ljm]

Ok. So since this is a KO thread, I'm posting this link here so members beware. Plamax Minmay KO sighted at eBay. Probably a recast.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-20-Lynn-Minmay-CMF-14056-/122504625666

 

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by no3Ljm

[Convectuoso]

6 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Ok. So since this is a KO thread, I'm posting this link here so members beware. Plamax Minmay KO sighted at eBay. Probably a recast.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-20-Lynn-Minmay-CMF-14056-/122504625666

 

 

There says it's a resin kit

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Convectuoso said:

There says it's a resin kit

It's a resin recast of this: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10381845

[JB0]

On 6/16/2017 at 7:06 PM, no3Ljm said:

Deep inside you know you want a high-quality transforming articulated tampo-filled oversized Valkyrie. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The first to offer me a 1:1 VF-1 gets all the moneys.

[chyll2]

There was a post in MacrossCentral page about a 1/60 Regult. Is this the same as the Yamato version before?

[Xigfrid]

You just light the hope in me! Think of that these 3rd party manufacturers such as Wei Jiang could just make oversized (1:60) versions of the HMM toys and I would be an happy pig!

[seti88]