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New Macross TV Series in 2018

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Hope it's Macross 2: The Sequel - Ingues Strikes Back  "This time he's doing the singing, and you will know his displeasure"

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20 minutes ago, TrickyCustomer said:

Hope it's Macross 2: The Sequel - Ingues Strikes Back  "This time he's doing the singing, and you will know his displeasure"

That's Macross 7. :ph34r:

 

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35 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

That's Macross 7. :ph34r:

 

Did you just compare the mighty Mac 2 to 7?! :blink:

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1 hour ago, no3Ljm said:

That's Macross 7. :ph34r:

37 minutes ago, TrickyCustomer said:

Did you just compare the mighty Mac 2 to 7?! :blink:

Good thing MacrossWorld has gotten less hotheaded with time... those would've been fightin' words back when I first joined. :lol:

Ingues is mercifully not up to much, having been reduced to nothing heavier than a cough by the combined fire of his entire fleet and two Macross Cannon-class anti-fleet gunboats.  Dragonball Super already beat us to the punch by bringing its purple Space Napo-Hitler back to life.

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14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Most of the Zentradi designs from the TV series are pretty heavily dated... the high uniform collars, the pastel colors, Vrlitwhai's weird brown smock-thing, the helmets that look more than a bit like a bellend or like a visored version of a WW2 German helmet, the chunky body armor, etc.

You're quoting all the reasons I like the designs. I like the 18th-century-Commander-in-Space look. And the curvy mercenary-space-Knight-with-bandolier-emblem-backpack-armour is my fave in all of sci-fi/ anime. (Have you also noticed the piscine suggestive shape of the light armour helmet? Just look at it side view, its suggestive of an open fish's mouth which is really appropriate under the circumstances.) :)

 The DYRL armour just looks like a cosmonaut with a humpty-dumpty helmet on to me.

And do we need to look any further than Exedol to prove my point? The DYRL version is a broccoli wearing a shroud, whereas the SDFM version not only has that 18th century look (with tails no less) but also blazer piping.

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

IMO, the DYRL? designs fit much better with the notion that the Protoculture were obsessed with organic technology and organic design aesthetics.  The movie version's partially organic Zentradi technology, and the techno-organic aesthetic of their leadership, meshes extremely well with the notion that the Protoculture were masters of genetic engineering and considered their Zentradi a form of [living/biological] weapon rather than people and with the later depictions of the ancient Protoculture as pursuing bio-technology extensively (later established to be due to their idolizing Vajra evolution).

Yes. I have read pretty much the same.

But this is about an SDFM remake. If they use DYRL designs then its really a DYRL remake.

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

They look almost exactly the same... which, I gather, was the entire point when they designed the First Order equipment. 

Not to me they don't. Even the chestplate is featureless on the First Order trooper.

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The First Order version just looks more like it was designed for someone to actually wear halfway comfortably, where all that extra mass hanging low on the classic helmet looks like something to cause extra neck strain in the poor schmucks wearing them all day.

Thats a good retcon explanation.

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

The First Order version just looks more like it was designed for someone to actually wear halfway comfortably, where all that extra mass hanging low on the classic helmet looks like something to cause extra neck strain in the poor schmucks wearing them all day.

Cant comment on the classic's practicality but it just looks great.

 

14 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... are you seriously trying to argue that mechanical design is inconsequential to the guy who's best known on this and a dozen other sites for being "mecha question guy"?

SERIOUSLY?

Perception is not necessarily reality.

I just drew a conclusion from some of your previous posts which seemed to indicate a story rather than visual focus.

No offense intended.:mellow:

 

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13 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Good thing MacrossWorld has gotten less hotheaded with time... those would've been fightin' words back when I first joined. :lol:

Ingues is mercifully not up to much, having been reduced to nothing heavier than a cough by the combined fire of his entire fleet and two Macross Cannon-class anti-fleet gunboats.  Dragonball Super already beat us to the punch by bringing its purple Space Napo-Hitler back to life.

You've got to keep it lighthearted ;) Yes he got smoked big time. I personally love macross 2. That's why I don't mind making a joke about it. That along with Mac plus was what brought me into the macross series back in the noughties.  It's not the best macross and it has it's fault ahem (dub) But the opening was awesome and I'm still holding onto the hope one day bandai or someone will produce Feff's Gigamesh power armor as an action figure. I'd buy a couple of them for sure. I have no idea where macross will go next. Hopefully (and this will be controversial) they focus more on mechs and less on J pop. 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Podtastic said:

You're quoting all the reasons I like the designs. I like the 18th-century-Commander-in-Space look. 

Kind of a poor fit, IMO... considering the ancient Protoculture were somewhere in the vicinity of the "Crystal spires and togas" category of advanced alien culture, and they considered their Zentradi to be little more than disposable military equipment.

These days, the Protoculture have progressed all the way to full-blown "sufficiently advanced aliens".

 

Quote

 The DYRL armour just looks like a cosmonaut with a humpty-dumpty helmet on to me.

The DYRL? armor looks more like it's meant for an actual mecha pilot, which is what 99% of them are.  I can only imagine how uncomfortable it'd be to be scrunched up in a Regult wearing a huge suit of inflexible plate.  The movie version has far fewer hard segments, which would make it a lot more comfortable to wear long-term, and it's more organically contoured, which fits better with all the Zentradi organic design aesthetic that was present in their ships and mecha even in the series.

 

Quote

And do we need to look any further than Exedol to prove my point? The DYRL version is a broccoli wearing a shroud, whereas the SDFM version not only has that 18th century look (with tails no less) but also blazer piping.

The broccoli joke's been done by a few fan artists over the years...

Still, DYRL? Exsedol looks a lot more like what he's supposed to be: a designer organism created to be a living data bank and walking, talking encyclopedia to assist a fleet commander.  He's not made for hand-to-hand combat or operating mecha, he's made for storing vast amounts of data... so he's built with high-precision manipulators instead of big beefy arms, a robe instead of body armor, and the organic computer that is his mind is a disproportionately huge, periodically glowing brain that's almost exploding out of his head.

The SDFM TV design just looks like a runty little guy with a bad haircut and a cape who likes purple too much.

It works better if character traits aren't just "informed ability".

 

 

Quote

But this is about an SDFM remake. If they use DYRL designs then its really a DYRL remake.

It's only a DYRL? remake if they're telling the DYRL? version of the story.

If they're telling the SDFM TV version of the story, then it's a remake of SDFM even if they're using the designs from DYRL?, as in the case of Macross the First.

 

 

Quote

Not to me they don't. Even the chestplate is featureless on the First Order trooper.

Can't honestly think of a reason to have those weird, squared off fake pecs on the breastplate.  It makes more sense to have the uncontoured one, which would be structurally simpler to cast/press (however those are made in-universe) and it'd also make it easier to make the armor unisex, since the First Order seems to recruit women for combat roles too.

(Maybe Joel Schumacher is an emigree from the Galaxy Far Far Away?)

 

Quote

I just drew a conclusion from some of your previous posts which seemed to indicate a story rather than visual focus.

No offense intended.:mellow:

None taken... I was more bemused than anything.

 

4 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

It's not the best macross and it has it's fault ahem (dub) But the opening was awesome and I'm still holding onto the hope one day bandai or someone will produce Feff's Gigamesh power armor as an action figure. I'd buy a couple of them for sure. I have no idea where macross will go next. Hopefully (and this will be controversial) they focus more on mechs and less on J pop. 

Bandai already did a HiMetal R VF-2SS... maybe we'll get there eventually :)

There are a lot of fans hoping the next series will be a more balanced one than the Macross Delta series was.  One of the biggest criticisms of it was the lack of attention on the mecha.

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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Posted (edited)

@Seto Kaiba DSC_0311.thumb.JPG.53a69f6cf9bba79b2339d4fab65ebf3d.JPG

DSC_0312.thumb.JPG.0b4af05840634cfbc829134c1ab669b7.JPG

I have it here ;) just waiting on the tamashii trident plus stand for it. And glad I am not the only one who thinks there wasn't a good balance. It's important the have all three but not at the cost of the others. Although I'd gladly just have more mecha than the others lol Delta was a bit too j pop for my liking. Even Frontier had scenes I had to skip also because it doesn't add to the story. Hopefully it will all level out next time. 

 

DSC_0317.JPG

Edited by TrickyCustomer

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7 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

I have it here ;) just waiting on the tamashii trident plus stand for it.

Macross II fans have been waiting ages to finally get our due... unfortunately, the VF-2SS Valkyrie II's design is such that we'll never get a toy that's faithful to the proportions of the fighter in the animation AND have a removable Super Armed Pack.  With the Macross II Blu-ray apparently having gotten Evolution Toy's attention, and then Bandai's, hopefully we'll have at least a modest number of toys in the future.  I'd like to see at least the big three (VF-2SS, VF-2JA, VA-1SS) and Feff's custom Gigamesh.

 

7 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

And glad I am not the only one who thinks there wasn't a good balance. It's important the have all three but not at the cost of the others. Although I'd gladly just have more mecha than the others lol Delta was a bit too j pop for my liking.

You'd be hard-pressed to find a fan who didn't think Macross Delta was an unbalanced series to its own detriment.  There was something of a recurring joke coined a while back that the show was pretty open about its intentions... "Welcome to Walkure World", all Macross content strictly incidental.

 

7 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

Even Frontier had scenes I had to skip also because it doesn't add to the story. Hopefully it will all level out next time. 

Macross Frontier is pretty much the new gold standard for Macross.  No previous series was quite as successful as Frontier, and most fans would agree that the balance in that series was damn near perfect with maybe some problematic pacing in the last few episodes.  It created a whole new, more diverse generation of Macross fans.

The next series really does need to be something with the same kind of "Something for everyone"1 appeal that Frontier had.  You can't have a series where 80% of the cast are flat stock characters2 or focus on one aspect of the iconic formula to the exclusion of everything else without sacrificing a big chunk of the franchise's appeal.  Walkure's music is great and all, but Freyja's the only one of the lot who got enough character development to have a bio that wouldn't fit neatly on the back of her business card.  Half the main cast had less characterization than some of the background characters.  You gotta develop these characters as people if you want the audience to give a toss, y'know?

 

1. A comedy tonight!
2. Unless you're working for Sunrise on a new Universal Century-era Gundam series.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎2018‎/‎03‎/‎02 at 6:58 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Kind of a poor fit, IMO... considering the ancient Protoculture were somewhere in the vicinity of the "Crystal spires and togas" category of advanced alien culture, and they considered their Zentradi to be little more than disposable military equipment.

These days, the Protoculture have progressed all the way to full-blown "sufficiently advanced aliens".

 

At this point I have not seen anything to make me care about the Protoculture. Mb they should do a backstory series about them like Halo did with the Forerunners.

 

On ‎2018‎/‎03‎/‎02 at 6:58 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The DYRL? armor looks more like it's meant for an actual mecha pilot, which is what 99% of them are.  I can only imagine how uncomfortable it'd be to be scrunched up in a Regult wearing a huge suit of inflexible plate.  The movie version has far fewer hard segments, which would make it a lot more comfortable to wear long-term, and it's more organically contoured, which fits better with all the Zentradi organic design aesthetic that was present in their ships and mecha even in the series.

Come to think of it the DYRL armour could work quite well for the Nousjadeul-Ger. The Meltrans use a flight suit for their Queadluuns so it sort of fits.

But for the pods etc, infantry/ship security I think the classic armour works way better. The classic armour foot even looks like its meant to fit pod foot levers or something.

On ‎2018‎/‎03‎/‎02 at 6:58 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The broccoli joke's been done by a few fan artists over the years...

Still, DYRL? Exsedol looks a lot more like what he's supposed to be: a designer organism created to be a living data bank and walking, talking encyclopedia to assist a fleet commander.  He's not made for hand-to-hand combat or operating mecha, he's made for storing vast amounts of data... so he's built with high-precision manipulators instead of big beefy arms, a robe instead of body armor, and the organic computer that is his mind is a disproportionately huge, periodically glowing brain that's almost exploding out of his head.

The SDFM TV design just looks like a runty little guy with a bad haircut and a cape who likes purple too much.

Not that I don't like this idea in its own right, but this version seems more like a cipher than a character.

 

On ‎2018‎/‎03‎/‎02 at 6:58 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's only a DYRL? remake if they're telling the DYRL? version of the story.

If they're telling the SDFM TV version of the story, then it's a remake of SDFM even if they're using the designs from DYRL?, as in the case of Macross the First.

I was enjoying Macross the First up until the Zentradi warrior climbed out of his pod and I saw the ugly armour/helmet (Mysterio is that you?:huh:).

The visuals are as much a part of what made SDFM my fave of all Macross as the story. So when I say I want it remade I mean simply upgrade the animation quality, yaqonda. In other words what they did for Macross Pachinko extended to the entire 36 episodes. It would be absolutely awesome.

Having said that I would not be averse to them ALSO doing a DYRL version remake, I mean is there such a thing as too much Macross Awesome:lol:? (of course I know I'm just dreaming in both cases)

 

 

Edited by Podtastic

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Podtastic said:

At this point I have not seen anything to make me care about the Protoculture.

As we've established on a few previous occasions, you're rather atypical as Macross fans go.

For most, the ancient Protoculture's role as a race of vanished precursors who shaped the sentient races of the galaxy in their own image is reason enough.  The facts of their lives are less important to the story than the impact of their legacy.

 

Quote

Mb they should do a backstory series about them like Halo did with the Forerunners.

Putting aside for a moment that the Halo novels are some of the worst-written science fiction ever committed to print, prominently featuring the Protoculture in a series dedicated to them would suck all the mystery and allure out of them.  Like the various races of vanished precursors in other sci-fi properties, much of their allure is that what little is known about them comes from painstaking study of what they left behind.  Once they're featured prominently as living people they're no longer mysterious... and in a lot of stories, they end up being thoroughly unlikeable, like the Forerunners in the Halo "Forerunner Saga".

 

Quote

Come to think of it the DYRL armour could work quite well for the Nousjadeul-Ger. The Meltrans use a flight suit for their Queadluuns so it sort of fits.

But for the pods etc, infantry/ship security I think the classic armour works way better. The classic armour foot even looks like its meant to fit pod foot levers or something.

The pods are where the more flexible suit would do the most good.  You HAVE seen how tightly they have to pretzel themselves into the cockpits of those Regults, right?  Having a smart cloth counterpressure suit is gonna be a LOT more comfortable than hardshell body armor under those circumstances.  The far roomier cockpits of the Nousjadeul-Gers would be better suited to the hardshell armor.

 

Quote

Not that I don't like this idea in its own right, but this version seems more like a cipher than a character.

He's always been Mr. Exposition, that's his entire schtick in every depiction except 7... where he briefly pulls double duty as the deadpan snarker and the dirty old man.

(In an amusing bit of irony, he's literally a "talking head" for most of the series.)

That's a thing we gotta make sure they don't do in the next show... those infuriating episode-long exposition dumps.  Whatever happened to "Show, don't tell"?

 

Quote

I was enjoying Macross the First up until the Zentradi warrior climbed out of his pod and I saw the ugly armour/helmet (Mysterio is that you?:huh:).

Macross the First author and longtime Macross character designer Haruhiko Mikimoto has always been very fond of the designs he did for Macross II... and has snuck them into a lot of his work for main continuity Macross.  He basically reused the II variant of the DYRL? Zentradi body armor for that shot.

The other staffers seem to be equally fond of the DYRL? designs, hence their having supplanted the TV designs in almost every instance... and the handful of exceptions being cases like the VF-1 or Exsedol, where BOTH versions are "true".

Edited by Seto Kaiba

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9 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

You HAVE seen how tightly they have to pretzel themselves into the cockpits of those Regults, right? 

I have read that was the intention of the design, but the only place I can recall actually seeing it that bad is in Cap's kits.I did not get quite that packed in like a sardine impression from seeing Kamjin in his Glaug, or the Recon pod pilot when they were setting the trap on Mars.

Also notice how a pod pilot was able to step out of the back of his pod in messenger. Surely impossible if its that crammed. (That back hatch is odd though I would have had the front of the pod flip up so the pilot can just jump out.)

 

 

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10 hours ago, Podtastic said:

I have read that was the intention of the design, but the only place I can recall actually seeing it that bad is in Cap's kits.

reguld-rear.gif

It's not exactly built for comfort... and being hunched over like that in inflexible plate armor would be pretty darn uncomfortable.  Some art, like the cutaways, show it as even more cramped, with a lot of equipment hanging off the interior walls of the cockpit.

 

10 hours ago, Podtastic said:

I did not get quite that packed in like a sardine impression from seeing Kamjin in his Glaug, or the Recon pod pilot when they were setting the trap on Mars.

The Roiquonmi Glaug's got a somewhat roomier cockpit, but it's no more ergonomically sound than the Esbeliben Regult is:

glaug-cockpitside.gif

 

 

If reincarnation is a thing in the Macross universe, I'm pretty sure the ancient Protoculture's top military engineers were reincarnated as the guys who design passenger airplane seats.

The New UN Spacy Marine Corps' Zentradi troops seem to have become something of a fixture in the last few Macross titles... so at the very least we can probably expect the next series to have some at least making a cameo appearance again.  They never do seem to get the posh assignments though... guarding an uninhabited planet on the arse end of nowhere (Gallia IV), or a single-biome desert planet so deep in the space boonies you hear banjos on the fold jump in (Al Shahal).  Delta can be appreciated for at least vastly expanding their inventory with the Regult Types 104 and 106, and the Super Glaug.

(It'd be nice to see them in action as friendlies tho... instead of as victims of the Worf Effect in 7 or as baddies in Frontier and Delta.)

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Posted (edited)
On 3/3/2018 at 7:24 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Macross II fans have been waiting ages to finally get our due... unfortunately, the VF-2SS Valkyrie II's design is such that we'll never get a toy that's faithful to the proportions of the fighter in the animation AND have a removable Super Armed Pack.  With the Macross II Blu-ray apparently having gotten Evolution Toy's attention, and then Bandai's, hopefully we'll have at least a modest number of toys in the future.  I'd like to see at least the big three (VF-2SS, VF-2JA, VA-1SS) and Feff's custom Gigamesh.

 

You'd be hard-pressed to find a fan who didn't think Macross Delta was an unbalanced series to its own detriment.  There was something of a recurring joke coined a while back that the show was pretty open about its intentions... "Welcome to Walkure World", all Macross content strictly incidental.

 

Macross Frontier is pretty much the new gold standard for Macross.  No previous series was quite as successful as Frontier, and most fans would agree that the balance in that series was damn near perfect with maybe some problematic pacing in the last few episodes.  It created a whole new, more diverse generation of Macross fans.

The next series really does need to be something with the same kind of "Something for everyone"1 appeal that Frontier had.  You can't have a series where 80% of the cast are flat stock characters2 or focus on one aspect of the iconic formula to the exclusion of everything else without sacrificing a big chunk of the franchise's appeal.  Walkure's music is great and all, but Freyja's the only one of the lot who got enough character development to have a bio that wouldn't fit neatly on the back of her business card.  Half the main cast had less characterization than some of the background characters.  You gotta develop these characters as people if you want the audience to give a toss, y'know?

 

1. A comedy tonight!
2. Unless you're working for Sunrise on a new Universal Century-era Gundam series.

Yes would definitely like to see a better vf-2ss or metal siren released. Feff's custom gigamesh power armor though is by far the coolest non valk mecha design in all of the macross series. Hence the avatar :D i will admit Frontier and Delta are very watchable. The animation was excellent. Most of the music is very good. Especially the scores. They really enhance and drive  some of the scenes forward.  I basically got introduced in anime through the mid 90's. Although i have vague memories of the early macross and dyrl as a kid. Street Fighter ll the animated movie was the first anime movie i ever watched and after that the 12 part ova series of Guyver. Safe to say that set the standard for my anime watching career. It was regular trips to HMV to see what new anime movies on vhs were available. The manga entertainment trailers were out of this world. i'll include some links below. They led me to likes of patlabor, akira, ninja scroll, the cyberpunk collection etc. all amazing anime and definitely my favorite era. Street fighter ll the animated movie has one of the best soundtracks in any anime.

And apologies if these are frowned upon in this thread. Nostalgia trip :D and they highly recommended if you haven't seen them.

Edited by TrickyCustomer

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On 2/15/2017 at 12:24 PM, Ghostbear0 said:

Well if you consider the time frame that was right around the time the events of Frontier were wrapping up. So I assume ( because it actually would be kinda neat) that they figured out that the Sight Valens was a key to the protoculture version of the Galaxy plan built as a last resort antie Protodelvin weapon. The loggical reation to that being all sorts of nope the rece of emotional children do not get the keys to a galactic doomsday weapon.

The damn party-poopers. ;-)

Am I the only one who hopes that a re-visit a la Yamato 2199 could come around? A lot went right in that series.

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22 hours ago, TrickyCustomer said:

I basically got introduced in anime through the mid 90's. Although i have vague memories of the early macross and dyrl as a kid. Street Fighter ll the animated movie was the first anime movie i ever watched and after that the 12 part ova series of Guyver. Safe to say that set the standard for my anime watching career. It was regular trips to HMV to see what new anime movies on vhs were available. The manga entertainment trailers were out of this world. i'll include some links below. They led me to likes of patlabor, akira, ninja scroll, the cyberpunk collection etc. all amazing anime and definitely my favorite era. Street fighter ll the animated movie has one of the best soundtracks in any anime.

 

13 hours ago, AngelBird4 said:

 

The damn party-poopers. ;-)

Am I the only one who hopes that a re-visit a la Yamato 2199 could come around? A lot went right in that series.

There's definitely a lot of older fans who are keen on the idea of a revisit/do-over of the original TV series ala Space Battleship Yamato 2199 or Mobile Suit Gundam: the Origin, esp. in light of how we had (and are now starting over with) Macross the First.

It's kind of unlikely though, given Kawamori's aversion to the idea of revisiting the story of the main trio from the original series.  I suspect he probably wasn't altogether happy with the way Delta tried to imply a Megaroad-01 connection for Lady M, possibly motivating that Newtype piece to say there was no identity determined for Lady M by the show's creators shortly after it ended.

I don't think I'd object too loudly as long as they kept in stuff like the 4th Defensive Battle of South Ataria Island from Vol.6, which at least showed us some unambiguously NEW stuff like Roy Focker sortieing for the first time in a VF-1 while Sv-51s and VF-0+'s duel in the skies over the city and an autonomous Sv-51 is sicced on him... or the CVN-99 Asuka II's sister ship CVN-100 Graf Zeppelin II.

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7 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

 I suspect he probably wasn't altogether happy with the way Delta tried to imply a Megaroad-01 connection for Lady M, possibly motivating that Newtype piece to say there was no identity determined for Lady M by the show's creators shortly after it ended.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but any such suspicion would be incorrect. As the General Producer for the entire Macross IP, absolutely everything is signed off on by Kawamori - from prize figure designs to Walkure dance routines to story elements. If he doesn’t like something, it generally doesn’t get through with only a handful of exceptions (eg, including the three pillars of Macross). Add to that the fact that he was actively working on Delta throughout the entire series, and the fact that he has always enjoyed throwing winks out there to the fans - like adding Sheryl’s earrings in to the bluray edit of Macross Zero, for example. 

Similarly, the magazine interview you are referring to was addressing the feedback and questions of viewers. Again, given that one of the Producers of Delta announced not even 4 days ago, that revealing Lady M’s identity was still very much a possibility, said interview is also a little out of date at this point. 

Just throwing the above out there in case anyone should happen to mistake opinions as fact. 

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24 minutes ago, Tochiro said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but any such suspicion would be incorrect. As the General Producer for the entire Macross IP, absolutely everything is signed off on by Kawamori - from prize figure designs to Walkure dance routines to story elements. If he doesn’t like something, it generally doesn’t get through with only a handful of exceptions (eg, including the three pillars of Macross). Add to that the fact that he was actively working on Delta throughout the entire series, and the fact that he has always enjoyed throwing winks out there to the fans - like adding Sheryl’s earrings in to the bluray edit of Macross Zero, for example. 

Similarly, the magazine interview you are referring to was addressing the feedback and questions of viewers. Again, given that one of the Producers of Delta announced not even 4 days ago, that revealing Lady M’s identity was still very much a possibility, said interview is also a little out of date at this point. 

Just throwing the above out there in case anyone should happen to mistake opinions as fact. 

I thought Kawamori was busy with a second project while Delta was running. 

Isn’t there some common idea that a lot of people like Plus as a whole more than 7 because Kawamori has more direct involvement in Plus?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

I thought Kawamori was busy with a second project while Delta was running. 

Isn’t there some common idea that a lot of people like Plus as a whole more than 7 because Kawamori has more direct involvement in Plus?

That’s what many Delta detractors seem to want to believe, despite their being no evidence to support it. Jushinki Pandora (previously known as “The Next”), the other project he has been involved in, doesn’t begin airing until a month from now meaning it most certainly did not effect his work on Delta 18-24 months ago. 

If anything, Delta is more likely to have affected Pandora, given that there wasn’t even any plans to do a Delta compilation movie until after the 2nd Walkure concert last year. (←Any actual effect is only speculation however. The only actual fact we know is that the production of the two would have overlapped and that Kawamori even went so far as to do the storyboards for the Delta movie).

I’m not sure where the ‘people liked Macross Plus more than 7 due to Kawamori’s involvement’ idea is from. Certainly, the director of M7 was Tetsuro Amino, but again Kawamori oversaw the whole thing. In fact, M7 was the project he originally wanted to make and only agreed to come back to do Plus on the condition that he be allowed to make M7 as well. 

Certainly, almost 25 years later, of the two M7 is the one with the more lasting legacy, and larger fan base in Japan. 

Edited by Tochiro
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SMS007 said:

I thought Kawamori was busy with a second project while Delta was running. 

There were rumors that he'd left Delta early to pursue the project that is, IIRC, Juushinki Pandora... nothing substantiated, AFAIK.

 

Quote

Isn’t there some common idea that a lot of people like Plus as a whole more than 7 because Kawamori has more direct involvement in Plus?

Can't honestly say I recall seeing that one raised before.

Usually when it comes down to Plus vs 7 it's all about tone... whether expectations calibrated by SDFMDYRL?II, and Plus made them think it was either loads of lighthearted fun or impossible to take seriously.  It used to be a subject of great acrimony here, less so now.  It basically came down to whether one could disengage from the expectations set by SDFMDYRL?II, and Plus to simply enjoy the spectacle that was Macross 7 or not.

(Which became a bit of a complication for folks who couldn't or wouldn't get through it, since a LOT of later titles built on story elements first introduced and explained in Macross 7.)

One thing I missed in Delta that was present in both 7 and Frontier were those little pre-episode blurbs that explained anything immediately relevant to the setting that you'd need to know that hadn't already been covered.  There wasn't any required extra reading or anything like that.  I really hope they bring those back.

Edited by Seto Kaiba
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Tochiro said:

As the General Producer for the entire Macross IP, absolutely everything is signed off on by Kawamori - from prize figure designs to Walkure dance routines to story elements.

Tochiro, I have always wondered...since you are on the ground with SNN and very knowledgeable, could you explain how Kawamori ended up with control of Macross IP and is even credited as "Creator", when he was just a young staff member working under the legendary Ishiguro during SDF? I understand he designed the transforming valkyrie, but I believe just as many valk key frames were drawn by Miyatake as by Kawamori, based on the Directors Commentary to the SDF DVDs. And the original concept of Macross Megaroad was a team effort with a lot of people involved.

Or is he more like the assigned Producer by Big West, and his position could change?

 

Edited by arbit

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3 hours ago, arbit said:

Tochiro, I have always wondered...since you are on the ground with SNN and very knowledgeable, could you explain how Kawamori ended up with control of Macross IP and is even credited as "Creator", when he was just a young staff member working under the legendary Ishiguro during SDF? I understand he designed the transforming valkyrie, but I believe just as many valk key frames were drawn by Miyatake as by Kawamori, based on the Directors Commentary to the SDF DVDs. And the original concept of Macross Megaroad was a team effort with a lot of people involved.

Or is he more like the assigned Producer by Big West, and his position could change?

 

Being General Producer and having ‘control’ are quite different things. He doesn’t own the IP, for example. But he was willing to come forward and take responsibility for it. General supervision and responsibility for the franchise was needed as it grew and he stepped up to do so. I’ve heard Renato mention that he felt a sense of responsibility towards the franchise.  By taking up the role, he provides general overall vision, supervision of quality of what was being made and, on the flip side, is responsible for any criticism or perceived failures. It’s a big responsibility and is basically one that no one else stepped up to the plate to provide afaik. 

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large.59278ea4d0bfd_scientistladya.jpg.0f9db4a6fc79574d0709c001070f1b63.jpglarge.59278eb07d1b2_scientistladyb.jpg.d263467694363fcd92eb1aba96470f40.jpg

 

It is suspiciously convenient that the manga where she debuted is starting all over again.  For those who don't remember, she's the replacement for the Chief Engineer from the original series.

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15 hours ago, Tochiro said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but any such suspicion would be incorrect. As the General Producer for the entire Macross IP, absolutely everything is signed off on by Kawamori - from prize figure designs to Walkure dance routines to story elements. If he doesn’t like something, it generally doesn’t get through with only a handful of exceptions (eg, including the three pillars of Macross).

Eh... while I don't doubt that Kawamori is exercising broad oversight over the Macross franchise, I just have a hard time believing he's micromanaging things to the extent you're implying here.

I'm not saying I don't think he could pull it off, but the idea of him having approved and signed off on some of the stuff in Delta's second half just doesn't mesh with the commitment to originality or attention to detail that are practically his calling cards in Macross.  You'd think if he were watching the development like a hawk he'd have noticed an exposition dump in episode 19 that reduces the show's core mechanic to a massive plot hole.  It'd also be really out of character for him to OK the writers of Macross Delta blatantly copying Grace's endgame from Macross Frontier like that.

 

 

43 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

It is suspiciously convenient that the manga where she debuted is starting all over again.  For those who don't remember, she's the replacement for the Chief Engineer from the original series.

Suspiciously convenient?

Maj. Bartlow's got a nice character design and all, but what's convenient about her?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Eh... while I don't doubt that Kawamori is exercising broad oversight over the Macross franchise, I just have a hard time believing he's micromanaging things to the extent you're implying here.

Tochiro and myself had first hand experience with what you're having a hard time believing. Even with the official English subtitles Kawamori was in the loop and signed off on things. And it wasn't just on the scripts being a native translation. He made sure that the nuance of dialogs and song lyrics were clear. I also spoke about it at last years SDcon panel.

Edited by Save
Missed a word.
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3 hours ago, Save said:

Tochiro and myself had first hand experience with what you're having a hard time believing. Even with the official English subtitles Kawamori was in the loop and signed off on things. And it wasn't just on the scripts being a native translation. He made sure that the nuance of dialogs and song lyrics were clear. I also spoke about it at last years SDcon panel.

Wait, so he approved of the "Ikenai Borderline" lyrics, what with all the, umm, climaxes?!

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26 minutes ago, Mazinger said:

Wait, so he approved of the "Ikenai Borderline" lyrics, what with all the, umm, climaxes?!

That is what surprises you? That's not even... well.. all that new. This isn't exactly a show for little kids. Besides didn't JUNNA write that song? I think I heard somewhere that was the case.

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4 hours ago, Save said:

Tochiro and myself had first hand experience with what you're having a hard time believing. Even with the official English subtitles Kawamori was in the loop and signed off on things. And it wasn't just on the scripts being a native translation. He made sure that the nuance of dialogs and song lyrics were clear. I also spoke about it at last years SDcon panel.

My apologies, I admit I'd quite forgotten Tochiro was one of the ones who worked on it.

(Due to circumstances, I missed all but about the last six minutes of your SDCon panel.) 

That does raise an uncomfortable problem in that my defense of the series to a number of its vocal detractors on here is no longer valid.  If Kawamori was carefully scrutinizing every aspect of Delta's development it would be fair to assign the blame for the various writing-related issues that plagued the show's second half to him after all.  Oh well...

Knowing he signed off on scripts full of serious plot holes and contradictions and approved dumping all the antagonist faction's character development into a gaiden manga doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about the quality of the forthcoming series either.  Great music is all to the good, but it takes more than just great music to make Macross:unsure:

 

1 hour ago, Mazinger said:

Wait, so he approved of the "Ikenai Borderline" lyrics, what with all the, umm, climaxes?!

Just as well, it's one of the best songs in the show.

Hindsight makes its in-show debut a bit creepy...

Spoiler

... given that it's Mikumo singing it and she's a three year old clone with minimal social awareness.

Where's Space Chris Hansen when you need him?

 

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1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Knowing he signed off on scripts full of serious plot holes and contradictions and approved dumping all the antagonist faction's character development into a gaiden manga doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about the quality of the forthcoming series either.  Great music is all to the good, but it takes more than just great music to make Macross:unsure:

 

 

Perhaps Kawamori is beginning to get burned out on Macross? It's still inexplicable just how bad the quality drop was between the first and second half.

Maybe he had a stroke or something.

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1 hour ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Perhaps Kawamori is beginning to get burned out on Macross? It's still inexplicable just how bad the quality drop was between the first and second half.

Maybe he had a stroke or something.

Maybe he just got too busy/overwhelmed?  Or he rubber stamped the stuff that he didn't care much about to be able to focus on the stuff that he does care about?

Without knowing the full circumstances, it's hard to get into the mindset.  It could just be: "Mr. Kawamori, the (vocal) fans in our target demographic like this."  "OK, give them more of it".

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1 hour ago, AN/ALQ128 said:

Perhaps Kawamori is beginning to get burned out on Macross? It's still inexplicable just how bad the quality drop was between the first and second half.

In hindsight, maybe that laughably halfhearted effort to memorialize Messer in Ep11 was a warning we all missed.  Half an episode wasted trying to pretend a guy who did nothing but badmouth, and then avoid, his coworkers was a beloved friend and mentor figure strained believability well past its breaking point and left him hovering between Jerk Sue and Sympathetic Sue status. 

That sudden plummet in writing quality was just a sucker punch.  Up to that point the show was so good I was thoroughly invested in all three main characters and was quite eager to see where they were going to take it.  Then we got to Ep17, the bottom fell out, and watching the series became a chore. :(

If he is getting burned out on Macross, I'd hope he has someone he can pass the torch to, if even only temporarily.  Maybe Tenjin.  As long as they don't use the same writers from Delta, he could probably do pretty well.  The next series definitely needs a plot that can keep its momentum and avoid digressing into suspension-of-disbelief-puncturing BS like the "Walkure goes undercover" episodes. 

 

1 minute ago, sketchley said:

Maybe he just got too busy/overwhelmed?  Or he rubber stamped the stuff that he didn't care much about to be able to focus on the stuff that he does care about?

Maybe he was just giving the producers what they wanted - a platform to promote Walkure - and was just kinda halfassing the rest?

(He didn't halfass the mechanical designs, for sure... the VF-31A's the most beautiful 5th Gen VF in my book.  I'm hoping to see it come back as a NUNS VF in the future.)

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So, still no news at all about this show?

No release date? No character designs? No mecha designs? No title? Not even any idea when it's set.

Seems to be a bit of a black hole news wise.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Tochiro said:

Being General Producer and having ‘control’ are quite different things. He doesn’t own the IP, for example. But he was willing to come forward and take responsibility for it. General supervision and responsibility for the franchise was needed as it grew and he stepped up to do so. I’ve heard Renato mention that he felt a sense of responsibility towards the franchise.  By taking up the role, he provides general overall vision, supervision of quality of what was being made and, on the flip side, is responsible for any criticism or perceived failures. It’s a big responsibility and is basically one that no one else stepped up to the plate to provide afaik. 

What age group does Delta appeal to the most in Japan? 12-15 year-old age group, or younger? I am sure all ages have some interest, but what is the big target market it reached?

Edited by arbit

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9 hours ago, Graham said:

So, still no news at all about this show?

No release date? No character designs? No mecha designs? No title? Not even any idea when it's set.

Seems to be a bit of a black hole news wise.

Assuming they're handling announcements the same was as the last two shows, I'd expect them to confirm they're working on something sometime this month, but we won't get any actual news until September or October, and no premiere until around Christmas.

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The only thing getting me through this waiting, is the hope of kawamori-san in his studio designing and crafting the next generation of valks, like a master craftsman. 

Please kawamori-San, don't ever get bored of designing new valks! Hontoni Arigato Gozaimasu!

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