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Mission 16: Birthday Hesitation  

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    • Negative (Great.Yet ANOTHER Macross Birthday episode)
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Finally, the Triangle episode. :)

Though I am Team Mirage for this one, I would not be particularly bothered if the precocious idol gets her man. So yeah, no hating for me this time around.

On the other hand, the emphasis on her short lifespan and the way she lives her life without reservations, coupled with how she was portrayed in this episode... gave me a bad feeling of how it will end for her, such as.... a first idol death ever? I have absolutely no basis for thinking this, but I can't shake the feeling. "The light that burns twice as bright" and all that jazz.

(whew my first post since the Macross F movies I think. I missed this.)

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YEAH! The hoodie with plushie pouch actually exist!

post-425-0-03474500-1468987918_thumb.png

post-425-0-29419800-1468987975_thumb.jpg

Edited by cwmodels

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Finally, the Triangle episode. :)

Though I am Team Mirage for this one, I would not be particularly bothered if the precocious idol gets her man. So yeah, no hating for me this time around.

On the other hand, the emphasis on her short lifespan and the way she lives her life without reservations, coupled with how she was portrayed in this episode... gave me a bad feeling of how it will end for her, such as.... a first idol death ever? I have absolutely no basis for thinking this, but I can't shake the feeling. "The light that burns twice as bright" and all that jazz.

(whew my first post since the Macross F movies I think. I missed this.)

Yep and pretty well done. It is rather conventional, but hey this is probably one of the first shows to have that since SDFM. M Plus was all antagonism until it became clear Dyson and Migumo really cared for each other. M7 was left completely unresolved, MF series was left unconsumated (emotionally). Though I expect that Hayate will discovers he has feelings for both just in time for Freyja to sacrifice herself for her world (I agree we may have the first idol death here).

I am beginning to suspect Mikumo is actually an orphaned Windermeran, perhaps from the war of independence. I think her memories of singing in the great hall are a childhood memory and she is a Wind Singer like Heinz. She has no memories of this, just like Ranka, she blocked out the traumatic event. Turning her into a PC is akin to arguing the Macross magically transported to Galia 4 in MF, a bit of a reach when the obvious is so much more believable.

SK is getting very good at this new format, but he really needs to refine it more. Not enough foreshadowing for successive episodes leaves the audience too often jarred when the mood is changed. I am liking it.

OK Junna's English is as good as Megumi Nakagima's. If she has aspirations of making a career in the West she will need that skill. She has either studied very hard and/or converses with English gaijin on a regular basis and it shows.

Edited by Zinjo

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Yep and pretty well done. It is rather conventional, but hey this is probably one of the first shows to have that since SDFM. M Plus was all antagonism until it became clear Dyson and Migumo really cared for each other. M7 was left completely unresolved, MF series was left unconsumated (emotionally).

Dyson is Isamu I get but I think you mean Myung Fang Lone. Though we don't know if Isamu and Myung ended up together. As for Macross 7 it is a love polygon around Basara. But the guy is musicsexual. Gamlin is the dogged nice guy. And I do mean a nice guy as he could've made his move on Mylene when Basara left but he went out to bring him back. If anything the love triangle is foreshadowed by Ray-Akiko-Stephan. Bros before hoes.

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Negative vote on this episode. No mecha apart from a fleeting shot of of the Delta VF-31's in the hanger. Heck I'm not expecting full-on mecha action every episode, but at least give us a couple of minutes of VFs doing something every episode, doesn't have to be combat, but I wanna see mecha.

Although the love triangle was sorta advanced, the story as a whole didn't really move forward much at all.

And yes, the anmation quality for the characters noticably dropped this episode.

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Negative vote on this episode. No mecha apart from a fleeting shot of of the Delta VF-31's in the hanger. Heck I'm not expecting full-on mecha action every episode, but at least give us a couple of minutes of VFs doing something every episode, doesn't have to be combat, but I wanna see mecha.

At least it's a heck of a lot more mecha action than we got in Frontier. Unless I'm mis-remembering. Help me out.

I really liked the episode myself. Very sweet and heartwarming. It certainly looks good for Hayate and Freyja, but their relationship is a little too much like the one between Alto and Ranka for me to believe it has a romantic future. Just like with Alto and Ranka, Hayate and Freyja's relationship is characterized by both playfulness and mutual support. However, in the end, Ranka couldn't be anything more than a close friend to Alto, and he chose Sheryl instead. I do believe Hayate loves Freyja, but not in the romantic sense, just as I believe Alto loved Ranka in the same platonic way.

I also like how Hayate's feelings blindsided him in this episode. It was like he ran right into a wall.

Edited by Product9

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I think I'm gonna have to accept that Mac Delta just isn't my cup of tea. 16 episodes in and I still feel there are too many characters and too little scree time to really hey more than cusrsory backstory into the characters and whatnot.

The music doesn't really strike a tune for me like Yoko Kanno's music did. I'm not saying it's bad, just saying it's not the type of music I like.

At least the robots are cool; if only I could just see more of them hehehehe

I honestly think Delta is like..Macross done on the cheap. Mac Frontier kinda got all the bells and whistles since it was the first TV mac series in 12 years, came on the 25th anniversary and also had pre-leman shock funding levels.

Also Delta feels a lot more like all the other superficial anime that's mainstream now in Japan and I don't really think it's Bandai or Kawamori's fault since they need to cater to a certain age group whose tastes are continually diverging from the older crowd.

If Only Macross could get big enough that one day they could be like Gundam and have AC and UC. AC for all the new weird stuff and UC for the "omg the horror of war I'll solve it by killing everyone" crowd.

Edited by Duymon

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Mikumo don't have a rune

Shocking Revelation:

He's a Castrati

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That image song at the end was too, too good.

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Mikumo don't have a rune

That we know of, but anything is possible with Macross.

To add to my earlier point, I am expecting Mirage to join Walkurie at some point. The foreshadowing regarding Hayate "finding" his bliss with flying before knowing his father was a pilot and the implication that Mirage didn't have that option herself was apparent to me.

I would bet that this is the beginning of the set up for Mirage to find she loves singing more than flying and that Lady M is indeed Mylene who will encourage that in her at some point.

Perhaps the impetus to have Mirage join Walkurie is for Freyja to sacrifice herself or be captured. However, that would reduce Delta to even less of a contingent so replacement pilots will be needed soon or have Mirage sing from her cockpit.

The scene among the Knights highlighted to me a growing crack in their resolve to "take over the galaxy". The region is one thing, but the whole galaxy is quite another for a race who only live to about 30 years. Who would want to spend their entire lives fighting wars of conquest?

Edited by Zinjo

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Dyson is Isamu I get but I think you mean Myung Fang Lone. Though we don't know if Isamu and Myung ended up together. As for Macross 7 it is a love polygon around Basara. But the guy is musicsexual. Gamlin is the dogged nice guy. And I do mean a nice guy as he could've made his move on Mylene when Basara left but he went out to bring him back. If anything the love triangle is foreshadowed by Ray-Akiko-Stephan. Bros before hoes.

I knew I had the name wrong. I was too tired to do a search at the time... :(

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That we know of, but anything is possible with Macross.

To add to my earlier point, I am expecting Mirage to join Walkurie at some point. The foreshadowing regarding Hayate "finding" his bliss with flying before knowing his father was a pilot and the implication that Mirage didn't have that option herself was apparent to me.

I would bet that this is the beginning of the set up for Mirage to find she loves singing more than flying and that Lady M is indeed Mylene who will encourage that in her at some point.

Perhaps the impetus to have Mirage join Walkurie is for Freyja to sacrifice herself or be captured. However, that would reduce Delta to even less of a contingent so replacement pilots will be needed soon or have Mirage sing from her cockpit.

The scene among the Knights highlighted to me a growing crack in their resolve to "take over the galaxy". The region is one thing, but the whole galaxy is quite another for a race who only live to about 30 years. Who would want to spend their entire lives fighting wars of conquest?

Plenty of people would love to spend their entire lives in a war of conquest..... in their late teens to early twenties..... before they tried it. So the twins who only know winning and are young and imortal are hyped, Herman and Cassim are old with a life of war behind them want no part of it.

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It certainly looks good for Hayate and Freyja, but their relationship is a little too much like the one between Alto and Ranka for me to believe it has a romantic future. Just like with Alto and Ranka, Hayate and Freyja's relationship is characterized by both playfulness and mutual support. However, in the end, Ranka couldn't be anything more than a close friend to Alto, and he chose Sheryl instead. I do believe Hayate loves Freyja, but not in the romantic sense, just as I believe Alto loved Ranka in the same platonic way.

I also like how Hayate's feelings blindsided him in this episode. It was like he ran right into a wall.

Gonna have to disagree heavily. While Hayate and Freyja's relationship does have some similarities to Alto and Ranka's, they have way way WAY more romantic chemistry than those two ever did. Especially after the rune scene at the end of this episode. From the time they both joined Delta/Walkure their relationship has been that of equals, whereas the Alto Ranka thing always felt a lot more one-sided romantically. Plus It seems like they actually get each other, whereas it never seemed Alto and Ranka had a particularly deep personal connection.

The one that I'm not feeling anything particularly more than platonic from is Mirage and Hayate. Hoping for some progress on that front so that things are little more dramatic. As it stands now this is pretty much the opposite of how things were in Frontier.

I will say that I don't have a particular preference for either ship, which is again pretty different from how I felt during Frontier.

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I will say that I don't have a particular preference for either ship, which is again pretty different from how I felt during Frontier.

As for me, in Frontier I was a supporter of Alto and Ranka, but mostly because Sheryl was presented as a spoiled and entitled child who I just wanted to see lose. Then she got sick and was dying or whatever and I guess I was supposed to feel sympathetic, but the damage had already been done. Then the movies did away with that aspect of her character entirely, and then I just found her boring.

Ranka on the other hand was always getting the short end of the stick, and I felt that was never really compensated for in anything that happened in the movies or TV series. She just got the short end of the stick all the way to the end.

In Delta I actually like both Freyja and Mirage a lot, so it's a little more interesting to me. I also actually like that Hayate isn't girl crazy or easily worked up (because frankly I'm sick of that trope in anime). He's cool as a cucumber and I'm okay with that. In my opinion that's also why his feelings coming as such a surprise to him in this latest episode was so satisfying to see.

To be fair, the characters in Delta are much more mature than the ones in Frontier, so some of the puppy-love aspect has been done away with (actually, it's been done away with entirely). There's something to be said about a modern mecha anime that doesn't take place shoehorned into a freaking high school.

Edited by Product9

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About the Triangle... I just listened to the podcast... funny... there is nothing wrong with a threesome, because eventually Freyja would kick the bucket, and Haya-Haya can get together with Mirage, and everything would be normal

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Her melancholy emotions are sending fold waves and he is receiving. We know from Macross 7 emotion behind the song counts.

Up to now it was always portrayed as a good thing. This time it looked pretty ominous compared to 7 and the other times Hayate received it.

Mirage is totally ready for the Immelman.

Edited by Einherjar

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Mirage is totally ready for the Immelman.

As opposed to Freyja? She was basically saying, "take me. now." haha.

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Up to now it was always portrayed as a good thing. This time it looked pretty ominous compared to 7 and the other times Hayate received it.

Mirage is totally ready for the Immelman.

Not really the shelves and stuff faded out but the people didn't and/or were highlighted. So an increase in interpersonal connections? That or she accidentally sent him super mode in the middle of Halmark instead of a pitched battle. Also everyone seems to be forgetting that Hyate has active fold receptors the necklace is an antenna that helps not causes his connection.

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As opposed to Freyja? She was basically saying, "take me. now." haha.

Moving on from all that verbal foreplay they've had isn't as big of a step.

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Moving on from all that verbal foreplay they've had isn't as big of a step.

Throw in the fact she's basically a middle aged woman who's never done the deed... :p

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I think I'm gonna have to accept that Mac Delta just isn't my cup of tea. 16 episodes in and I still feel there are too many characters and too little scree time to really hey more than cusrsory backstory into the characters and whatnot.

The music doesn't really strike a tune for me like Yoko Kanno's music did. I'm not saying it's bad, just saying it's not the type of music I like.

At least the robots are cool; if only I could just see more of them hehehehe

I honestly think Delta is like..Macross done on the cheap. Mac Frontier kinda got all the bells and whistles since it was the first TV mac series in 12 years, came on the 25th anniversary and also had pre-leman shock funding levels.

Also Delta feels a lot more like all the other superficial anime that's mainstream now in Japan and I don't really think it's Bandai or Kawamori's fault since they need to cater to a certain age group whose tastes are continually diverging from the older crowd.

If Only Macross could get big enough that one day they could be like Gundam and have AC and UC. AC for all the new weird stuff and UC for the "omg the horror of war I'll solve it by killing everyone" crowd.

Have to agree with most of this. There's too many characters or too many supporting characters. Sometimes it isn't clear even who the main characters are. The show often feels like it is 3 shows playing at once. Reason for that is because they're trying to make a show for multiple audiences. They have to add stuff for the old school fans. They have to add stuff for the new fans that discovered it through Frontier. They have to add stuff for fans of current anime. They also have to add something for Kawamori. Many of the different Macross series seem to reflect whatever is of interest to Kawamori at the moment. When you try to put all these things together it sometimes doesn't work.

I'm okay with less mecha action if the story doesn't require it. I do feel like they are being cheap with the mecha scenes. For a property known for transforming robots and great action scenes this series has very few. I think a lot has to do with the budget. You know what scenes beside mecha fights have a lot of stuff going on in them? The animated musical numbers. I doubt they are going to hire twice as many animators. They have to decide where to spend their resources. Unfortunately we get lower quality animation in some scenes or episodes. It was like this with the first series. Frontier did an excellent job with keeping the animation quality up. I recall only 1 or 2 episodes where the quality was below expectations.

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Have to agree with most of this. There's too many characters or too many supporting characters. Sometimes it isn't clear even who the main characters are. The show often feels like it is 3 shows playing at once. Reason for that is because they're trying to make a show for multiple audiences. They have to add stuff for the old school fans. They have to add stuff for the new fans that discovered it through Frontier. They have to add stuff for fans of current anime. They also have to add something for Kawamori. Many of the different Macross series seem to reflect whatever is of interest to Kawamori at the moment. When you try to put all these things together it sometimes doesn't work.

I'm okay with less mecha action if the story doesn't require it. I do feel like they are being cheap with the mecha scenes. For a property known for transforming robots and great action scenes this series has very few. I think a lot has to do with the budget. You know what scenes beside mecha fights have a lot of stuff going on in them? The animated musical numbers. I doubt they are going to hire twice as many animators. They have to decide where to spend their resources. Unfortunately we get lower quality animation in some scenes or episodes. It was like this with the first series. Frontier did an excellent job with keeping the animation quality up. I recall only 1 or 2 episodes where the quality was below expectations.

I agree with you that the balancing act between all of the characters could be better and would have been easier with less characters to focus on. However, I don't feel like the series is being cheap with the mecha action scenes. I adore Delta's atmospheric battles and the backgrounds and I feel they are much more lively than the ones used in Frontier. In Delta I didn't think the dogfights called for battroid mode to be used and I feel it would be too slow to catch up to the opposing fighter plane.

Most of Frontier's battles were in space and looked bland after while. My favorite scenes in Frontier were when they were in the skies of a planet. I also don't agree that frontier's original TV broadcast kept the animation quality up that well. The first couple of episodes looked great, but after that there would be quite a few off model faces throughout the series and as the series went on reused lots of frames. One thing In particular was the Sheryl concert scenes that was reused a lot (how many times do I need see Sheryl sweating while singing?) :lol: . I still like Frontier, but I think it's become a part of Macross TV shows or any TV anime to see some dips in animation and reused animation here and there. As far as Delta goes, I think the animation has been solid for a TV series and has had some excellent bursts of detailed animation. There are a some faces that are off model at times, but those can be fixed on the blu-ray. I also don't see the bad animation of episode 16. Aside for again a few off model faces, movements were smooth and the snow scene was gorgeous. :)

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As stated by other members before, animation quality during the broadcast is not a critical issue and can be forgiven because they always fix it for the home video release. Time is always against them during a broadcast season so they do what they can with the time allotted. Important scenes get more attention, while others less so.

The idea of using Battroid or GERWALK modes in a full on aerial dog fight is simply silly. Momentum and speed are essential to succeed in an atmospheric dog fight. Space is a completely different matter and it shows, as we saw a lot more use of different modes in space combat scenes compared to planetary combat.

The story telling side does need some refinement since SK is using a format he has never tried before, but over all I am fine with it. There were a few jolts to the system when episode moods abruptly changed from the previous without any warning whatsoever. I expect if he uses this method again, things will be smoother.

Edited by Zinjo

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I (still) don't agree about the mode changes not being useful. The YF-29 vs VF-27 fight was pretty battroid heavy (short as it was).

I'm still of the mind it's just a style choice in Delta.

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Throw in the fact she's basically a middle aged woman who's never done the deed... :p

What makes you think she's never done the deed?

The idea of using Battroid or GERWALK modes in a full on aerial dog fight is simply silly. Momentum and speed are essential to succeed in an atmospheric dog fight.

People keep saying this but it was never a problem in any of the other series.

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What makes you think she's never done the deed?

People keep saying this but it was never a problem in any of the other series.

Seems like SK actually studied air to air combat and decided to be more realistic than stylistic. There are plenty of resources on the interweb if you too are interested in aerial combat principles.

The space combat uses all modes because there is little disadvantage to change modes in space, it actually is MORE advantageous in space, tactically speaking.

As for the other series, I believe outside of Zero, this one has the most atmospheric battles yet.

Edited by Zinjo

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Who cares about realism? We have big honking transforming robots fighting aliens with magical fold wave powers.

Me like Robots. Me like planes. Planes turning to Robots is cool.

Let's not even get into realism when like half the planes in Macross don't even have enough control surfaces to fly right without massive amounts of thrust vectoring (I'm lookin at you VF-1!)

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Who cares about realism? We have big honking transforming robots fighting aliens with magical fold wave powers.

Me like Robots. Me like planes. Planes turning to Robots is cool.

Let's not even get into realism when like half the planes in Macross don't even have enough control surfaces to fly right without massive amounts of thrust vectoring (I'm lookin at you VF-1!)

Most of the VFs have this problem actually, due to the lack of horizontal tails. I think only the delta- and forward swept winged VFs - and not even all of them - have enough control surface area to pitch up from a runway take-off, especially not with the landing gear placement on most of them being so far back.

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Seems like SK actually studied air to air combat and decided to be more realistic than stylistic. There are plenty of resources on the interweb if you too are interested in aerial combat principles.

The space combat uses all modes because there is little disadvantage to change modes in space, it actually is MORE advantageous in space, tactically speaking.

As for the other series, I believe outside of Zero, this one has the most atmospheric battles yet.

Valkyries are nothing like modern day fighters, even when restricted to fighter mode. And modern day fighters are nothing like WWII era fighters that had to claw for altitude to get an energy advantage.

A modern 4th gen fighter has a climb rate somewhere along the lines of 60 thousand feet a minute (this is from memory so probably not spot on) and a service ceiling around 50 thousand feet. Energy isn't as big a problem now as it was then, but it is still a very important concern.

Now consider the Valkyrie. The YF-21 had enough power to start burning up in the atmosphere while climbing, all the while crushing its pilot. The Valkyries in Delta are far above that in performance, and have the revolutionary ISC as well as other fold-quartz wizardry that puts them head and shoulders above even the 2040s era machines that were already so powerful they were a hazard to the pilot and had to be substantially limited.

So, now (in 2067) energy is a nonexistant problem. They can gain energy so fast that losing it in a fight is not a concern. Or at least it shouldn't be. I wouldn't put *too* much stock in Shoji Kawamori's understanding of modern air combat, and the associated technology. If you know what to look for, the ignorance (in some areas) is really apparent, but if you don't then it all probably seems like they know what they're talking about. (And I mean no disrespect here. I'm just making observations)

Heck, based on something Messer said, apparently the VF-31 doesn't even have FADEC.

Edit: clarity

Edited by Product9

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As stated by other members before, animation quality during the broadcast is not a critical issue and can be forgiven because they always fix it for the home video release. Time is always against them during a broadcast season so they do what they can with the time allotted. Important scenes get more attention, while others less so.

The idea of using Battroid or GERWALK modes in a full on aerial dog fight is simply silly. Momentum and speed are essential to succeed in an atmospheric dog fight. Space is a completely different matter and it shows, as we saw a lot more use of different modes in space combat scenes compared to planetary combat.

The story telling side does need some refinement since SK is using a format he has never tried before, but over all I am fine with it. There were a few jolts to the system when episode moods abruptly changed from the previous without any warning whatsoever. I expect if he uses this method again, things will be smoother.

Since they're not fighting giant aliens anymore, using battroid mode does seem inefficient. But the ability to hover, stop mid-flight, and fight sideways? Gerwalk is golden in the atmosphere.

What makes you think she's never done the deed?

Given their lifespan, they should be breeding like rabbits. Very early on. So yeah, maybe that rune's been runed before. haha

Edited by dreamweaver13

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Most of the VFs have this problem actually, due to the lack of horizontal tails. I think only the delta- and forward swept winged VFs - and not even all of them - have enough control surface area to pitch up from a runway take-off, especially not with the landing gear placement on most of them being so far back.

They do have incredibly powerful vernier thrusters, though. Didn't Basara take off once from a dead standstill in fighter using verniers to get him off the ground enough to transform to GERWALK or something? It's been a long time since I've seen 7.

There are a lot of things that sort of bother me about Valkyrie deployment, though, but I just let it slide because I know it's all style. They are styled after modern 4th and 5th gen fighters, which I'm okay with because they look really cool and dramatic, but they have so much power and technical wizardry that there is no need for them do modern fighter stuff like launch from a runway on a carrier.

Since they're not fighting giant aliens anymore, using battroid mode does seem inefficient. But the ability to hover, stop mid-flight, and fight sideways? Gerwalk is golden in the atmosphere.

I personally think the strength a Valkyrie has isn't in any one mode, but rather in using all three modes as the situation demands. I have to admit Delta's dogfights have been a little dull to me because they neglect this principle that has been so well established in previous Macross shows.

Being able to swoop in, use GERWALK to rapidly reverse direction, then switch to battroid for a stable gunnery platform as the pilot takes a few shots at their opponent, then switch back to fighter to zoom away with their incredible thrust to weight ratio... that's how a Macross dogfight should be. Again, I reference the fight between the YF-29 and VF-27. That was an atmospheric dogfight with modern Valks with ISC and super powerful engines, but it was a lot more dynamic and interesting than what we have seen in Delta (IMO).

And keep in mind the battroids we have now are not sluggish by any means. Their vernier thrusters are so powerful then can dart around to dodge fire in any direction while returning fire with their accurate arm-carried weaponry, which is exactly what Alto and Brera did in Sayonara no Tsubasa.

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Have to agree with most of this. There's too many characters or too many supporting characters. Sometimes it isn't clear even who the main characters are. The show often feels like it is 3 shows playing at once. Reason for that is because they're trying to make a show for multiple audiences. They have to add stuff for the old school fans. They have to add stuff for the new fans that discovered it through Frontier. They have to add stuff for fans of current anime. They also have to add something for Kawamori. Many of the different Macross series seem to reflect whatever is of interest to Kawamori at the moment. When you try to put all these things together it sometimes doesn't work.

I'm okay with less mecha action if the story doesn't require it. I do feel like they are being cheap with the mecha scenes. For a property known for transforming robots and great action scenes this series has very few. I think a lot has to do with the budget. You know what scenes beside mecha fights have a lot of stuff going on in them? The animated musical numbers. I doubt they are going to hire twice as many animators. They have to decide where to spend their resources. Unfortunately we get lower quality animation in some scenes or episodes. It was like this with the first series. Frontier did an excellent job with keeping the animation quality up. I recall only 1 or 2 episodes where the quality was below expectations.

Amen to that...

This may sound horrible, but I can actually live without as much mecha, especially since we have a lot of reused animation anyway. In fact, I think less mecha action would actually make seeing the VFs in combat more exciting. The story part of Delta is actually a little lacking, it feels like we skip from episode to episode, and a little like playing with the flavor of the day. I actually think these characters are all very interesting, but they all have to fight for screen time.

Let's see, I like the Walkure... all of them. I like at least 60% of Delta squad... don't care much for Chuck, and Arad, and not so much for Ernie. Roid has such potential for an interesting character, but not so sure about the AKs. I think we can live with generic mooks there almost, may be with one ace.

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