1/60 VF-5000 3D Printing

[NZEOD]

1/72 Hasegawa Capt Harlock series Yuki Kei pilot figure for the SW-190 Space Wolf Fighter.

Could be a good starting point.

[Tage]

Hey guys!

Ok update time! Been working away on the arm section. It's been pretty complicated as there's LOADS of little joints and parts interacting, swinging about doing crazy things. Almost there – i've still got to tidy up quite a bit of it, but at this stage is starts to give a really good indication of the overall shape. Again, still a lot to do as too many parts are not close enough or overlapping too far over. So yeah, i'm still on track for my own personal deadline for a year i reckon (May). Plus i have a few days off work coming up, so planning on using those to work away on this thing.

IMAGES:

Also thanks for you support too, even you – crazy Russian spam bot. Does that mean we've made the big leagues of forum posts?

And yeah that's great reference for the pilot!! thanks dude. You ok with all the earth quakes going on down in NZ? I have a lot of friends and family around there and all of them luckily seem to be ok.

Next stage is basically tidying up the arm more, adding a bit of detail on the shoulders as they have a few more pointy bits that get split out into sections. Then i'll be making that whole leg and arm section connect properly to the body section (as there's about a 1mm gap) and then after that i'll be making sure everything transforms correctly - expect robot pics then!

cheers dudes.

[Mommar]

What's with the big blocks attached to the stabilizers in the back?

[Xigfrid]

They look like to be flushed inside the leg so they become seamless ?

[Tage]

Are you referring to the part that is a flat looking rectangle on the bottom right side of the second image?

If so, that has 2 functions. Firstly it's there so that it fills the gap that would be there between the 2 engine blocks. Sorta like how the arms look on the VF-1 while in plane mode. Secondly once he's a robot, it'll actually swing up to form the under part of the forearm. That's the plan anyway, of course it could go horribly wrong and turn out i've created a 3rd leg by accident or something :-D

Edited November 16, 2016 by Tage

[wmkjr]

Maybe it's the blocks where the vertical stabilizers pivot on? The one with the number 2 etched?

[Tage]

Oh! Yeah if you mean those bits – they are just the pivots for the back wing parts (stabilisers/stabilizers). They look a little massive at the moment so will dial them back a bit - may even have a think about creating more of a sliding mechanism so those wing parts a bit more flush to the engine block, then slide out and around to form part of his arm. :-)

[valhary]

I will sound repetitive but amazing work a masterpiece I cant wait to see the battroid mode

[Kurisama]

Hmm, very interesting

Tage, if I could offer some advice or just my observations;

You do have some curvature or parts, but if you look at other valks of that era; they're bubbly! Or at least made up of many compound curves. Obviously the parts that interlock and rest upon each other work best when straight and flush - but study those areas and look to exploit the other surfaces not directly affected.

I believe you model will look 100% slicker if you add some of this to your model. But otherwise, impressive!

[Mommar]

Oh! Yeah if you mean those bits they are just the pivots for the back wing parts (stabilisers/stabilizers). They look a little massive at the moment so will dial them back a bit - may even have a think about creating more of a sliding mechanism so those wing parts a bit more flush to the engine block, then slide out and around to form part of his arm. :-)

Yeah, I was asking about those. The stabilizers are flush withbthe fuselage in fighter on the lineart.

[Tage]

You do have some curvature or parts, but if you look at other valks of that era; they're bubbly! Or at least made up of many compound curves.

Hey man! Thanks for the advice, yeah i think i need to look at that, especially along the main body. It does have some serious curves along some parts at the moment, like the nose. But I keep forgetting to hide the dark edge lines before i take screen shots of my progress. So i think that's also possibly what's giving that slightly blocky look at the moment.

Yeah, I was asking about those. The stabilizers are flush withbthe fuselage in fighter on the lineart.

Ah yeah, what i've possibly done too is mistake that hinge part that connects that stabiliser for another.. as there about 3 parts all the same shape, but slightly different sizes from the model i'm basing this off, and the instructions are a bit confusing as to which hinge bit should be used where. And they're in Japanese hah.

[Tage]

Bit of an update, fancied doing something a little different so started and finished the Gunpod.

Even figured out how to make thing back part slide out super basically.

More next week!

[Xigfrid]

This gun pod is great, I don't see the sliding mechanism but it looks very nice!

Just a warning about 3D printers, going thinner than 1mm is generally not recommended if ever the printer alllows it

[valhary]

I believe the 3d printing only like a help to measure tolerances and rectify the transformation process

[Tage]

Hey guys, just a quick update. Still just going along the whole model, making sure it has no overlaps and making things a bit neater here and there – i swear i've had to redo the arms about 5 times chopping bits off here and there – as making one change means it impact on all the other arm parts!

The main parts that are left to do and are hard to see on screenshots are where the wings hit the legs, and where the body meet the arms. Been working a little bit on the cockpit too for a bit of detail.

So technically all that's left to do apart from cleaning things up, are making the pilot, seat, canopy (as it still is a bit too sleek looking), a few hands (fingers won't move sorry, but there will be a few poses i'm hoping to get done) a quick semi-redo of the head. I also want to make a few little pegs and holes to help things clip into place to keep things sturdy in both modes. Also have to measure the screw length for all the joints but that shouldn't take too long at all. So all in all i'm hoping with a couple more days off work coming up and then the holidays, i should be hitting print around new years. :-)

cheers

[valhary]

every day this gets better

[arbit]

Amazing work. I dont even know how to use photoshop.

Couple questions:

- How do you test for the parts clearance and fit in transformation? Does your software animate the movements?

- How many separate parts does this have right now?

Best of luck getting through successfully.

[Mommar]

This looks damn awesome!

[Tage]

Thanks dudes!

Couple questions:

- How do you test for the parts clearance and fit in transformation? Does your software animate the movements?

- How many separate parts does this have right now?

Oh! good question, sorry – i have mentioned that a couple times and not really explained what i meant huh?

Firstly – just visually. It's pretty obvious when something is over lapping as you can just see another part digging into another part. I'm using Sketchup to do this, and it shows black lines for edges, so where i see an edge/line disappearing, I know something ain't working. For a super obvious example, I have semi fixed the canopy, so here's a bit of before and after.

Before: See how that HUD part i made last round is coming into my nice glass blue canopy? Yuck. I knew i'd have to raise the height of the canopy eventually as it was a bit too slick looking for the VF-5000 anyway. Soooo.....

After: Raising the canopy up has fixed the issue, but i've probably gone a bit far... as the whole thing looks a little too bulbous now. But hey, you get the idea – no more rouge edges from that HUD part cutting into the canopy (quick note - ignore the funny looking different colour polygons on where the canopy meets the cockpit, they are basically where 2 flat surfaces are touching, and because they aren't super super exactly the same, the software has a bit of a hissy fit, it's nothing major though)

Then sometimes i like to just zoom into a part and see how far something is straying in to then measure how much i need to bring it back. So the next thing i'm going to do is sort out how far in the wings are going into the legs. This shot is half way into the outer edge of a leg part looking inside, with a wider shot for context of where i'm talking about. See that wing part digging in? Egh.

Then the other way i check, is basically just selecting the part that's going to move at it's rotation point and just rotate it in the direction it's going to move – and then some. And again, you can just see if something is bumping into another part while you do that. You can probably see the parts where things rotate in some previous screen grabs - they are basically anywhere you see a small circle on a surface. That's where the screws will eventually go. There's actually only like 2-3 parts that actually slide - everything on this just rotates really.

Also Sketch-up does have some animating features... but i think they are a bit rough to use. I'll be honest and say i probably haven't researched it enough to definitively say either way. But my character 'rigging' setup so far is just grouping sections with subgroups upon subgroups - that should make sense when I start showing pics of the thing transforming finally sorry. And because he's quite a complex beast, i'm not too sure i'll be animating anything - Printing this guy is going to be difficult enough! haha. I'll see once i'm done though.

Oh and finally i'll be up to about 80 or so parts once i'm done.

Thanks guys - any other questions do please ask. I think it helps me get round to fixing things quicker too haha.

[Xigfrid]

Now we know how Experten's models ended with a bulbous canopy!

Joking aside, I don't know if you are 100% happy with the nose. I am looking at it and I could feel something is off without being able to point out what exactly... The general profile looks 95% right but the remaining 5% is buzzing me. Something looks too angular at the junction of the top and the bottom parts.

If I were you, to fix this later, I would cut this front portion of the nose and make a separate part so if I can fix it later, there would be only a small part to print and to replace.

[Tage]

Oh yeah, thanks Xigfrid. Yeah, i hope i can make the canopy a tiny bit slicker looking than it now is, like a happy medium. I was tired from work yesterday and rushed it a bit. Also now i'm worried about the heat-shield clearance that comes from the chest. Like everything on this bot - change one thing and it impacts the rest of it!

Oh and i think i know what you mean about the nose actually... it's almost a bit too duck bill like huh? Even though i'm starting to believe it was inspired bit one, even down to the 2 points sticking up where the canopy starts. It is quite a complex curve going from the middle to top or bottom, a long but cut off S shape - sort of. So i may have over done it a tad on the initial angle coming from the middle. Tell you what i should do actually, once i get everything to a 'working' stage... I should take some screenshots matching the angles of the line art and reference i have, put them side by side so then we all can look at it and have an over all shape check. I know i'd find that super helpful as you guys will spot things i've missed through just looking at it way too long.

[arbit]

I'm no expert, but it does look more duck billed than the line art.

Edited December 15, 2016 by arbit

[Sildani]

Excellent work!

I agree with the others. Display some good orthographs with the lineart, and we'll see.

[Tage]

Hey guys, happy new year and all that. Made heaps of progress, fast pack and connector done, and also a bunch of hands! Peace!

I do keep running into this error though that is slowing me down a bit... because SketchUp isn't great at making small things, i've been upscaling certain parts as i work on them in more detail. When i go to save, it creates all these errors across the part i'd been working on. It happens even if i scale it back down to its original size. Not too sure what to do next... as this will really slow me down when i come to add the panel lines and more detail. I'll post it up on a SketchUp forum to see if anyone else knows what's causing it. Any of you guys know what it could be? Edit - It seems to be an error when i scale a grouped object, rather than scale the mesh itself... So it's sort of solved, just a few extra steps to get things working. 

In other news i think i was a bit too excited before when i said i'd be printing by new years haha. Hope the images display right too. Getting used to this new layout. 

Cheers

Edited January 1, 2017 by Tage

[valhary]

great news to open a promising year 

cheers

[Pat S]

Looking amazing! 

About the fast pack???  Is it just the booster or also other parts? 

This thing has a big bad bomber look to it.

It's so cool that you can model it and then check to see if things will interfere or not, then adjust!

It's hard to say if the nose is spot on or not.  I think it's very close. 

[Xigfrid]

I know this bug, but unfortunately I don't have a true solution to fix it. 

It's like if the origin of the "group" changes when you try to modify or scale a member or line in it. So every change applied to the group destroys the global geometry. 

To fix it, you need to explode or make the whole group again from scratch.

Something to avoid this bug, is to reduce the axis change and rotations to this group. 

[Tage]

On 1/3/2017 at 4:55 AM, Pat S said:

Is it just the booster or also other parts? 

So there are meant to be some leg fast packs, but they are fairly flush to the leg itself... sorta like the VF/YF-19 leg packs. Nothing really stands out about them, but i'll do them for sure. I'm still figuring out the best non-destructive way to attached all these so they can come off and be put back on. There's an easy permanent solution of glue or screws, but to make it a bit more toy like would be nice. And yeah hah, he is a chunky little monkey. 

 

20 hours ago, Xigfrid said:

Something to avoid this bug, is to reduce the axis change and rotations to this group. 

Ah thanks Xigfrid! Yeah i ended up exploding each object, then re-grouping it. Did find it funny that it was happening on some objects and not others, then when you mentioned about the axis change thing, i realised that's probably what i did on those particular objects. I'll try to remember to re-explode an object after i'm done fiddling with it if i change the axis on it. I had forgotten that groups can be a bit of a pain sometimes. 

One other odd bug i'm running into often that's slowing me down is that it seems like SketchUp likes to simplify my edges sometimes... I thought it was because i was working to a small scale  as i know it doesn't like that so much. So as part of me re-exploding everything i made everything about 100 times bigger, so technically i'm working on about a 1/1 scale now (lol) But anyway i'm finding it is still trying to do the same thing... I notice it especially when i actually copy and paste a section of a part to work on in its own space just so it's a bit easier, then when i come to bring it back to where it's meant to be, (like snapping it back to a corner) there's sometimes like a hairline crack where the edges don't meet up... And it's not until i really zoom in that i notice it as it's so so small. Is there a setting i'm missing that tries to simplify my geometry or something? I'm at work at the moment so will put a couple photos up tonight to try and show what i'm on about a bit clearer. But yeah, it's just a pain to do an edge 2-3 times over to match up. And now i've scaled up i've noticed that some of the parts i've fixed in the past have gone back to having a hair line crack. So my clean up stage before i hit print is going to be HEAPS of fun. 

Thanks dudes. 

 

[Xigfrid]

Your latest bug happens everytime you ungroup a "Soften Edged" group with its mirror or another group with juxtaposed plans. To avoid the issue, you need to cancel the softening before merging the groups.

[Tage]

Ah ok, random it would do that. i'll keep an eye out for premature ungrouping of stuff. Man this stuff is haaarrrddd. thanks for your help. Not far to go now though! :-)

[Sildani]

Wow, Tage, you're going from strength to strength! Well done! 

I think the nose is as good as it's going to get, I just think the canopy is just a bit tall or bulbous. 

As for the fast packs, try rare Earth magnets. Small, cheap, strong. 

[Tage]

Sooo, finally got round to do the extra pointy ankle and wrist parts that will eventually end up yellow. 
I was going to start on the leg packs next, but thought since those, and any other additions or edits i have to make are just for style, and aren't mechanically important – I wanted to make sure he works properly turning into a bot. So after moving things piece by piece, editing as i went, i think i've gotten to a good place with him. Again, still a few things to edit stylistically, but mechanically, he's pretty much set now. 

I have a few concerns that i'm going to have to have a think about.... 

Firstly the arm... it just looks a bit too messy. Actually I did a quick fix as i was uploading these pics. That piece on the right side of the arm that i edited is actually really important to make the arm piece flush against the engine/leg while being a jet, and then turns and needs to allow the tail fin enough space to tuck inside the arm itself. Anyway, it looks a little fuller now... Secondly on the arm still that other cut (mini T shape) is actually how i was going to get the gunpod to fit under the jet... but i think it just makes his arm look super ugly. So i may have to abandon that thought... Maybe i should use some clip... I'll have a think

Other stuff...

Not too sure i'm happy about how i've done the ankle, particularly the part that is on top while being a jet, that becomes the back of his heel in bot mode. It looks a bit overly high/long. This is actually because the arms overall are a little thick and high, even comparing it to the line art. It's just so they have enough room and can fit all the very complex mechanical bits that extend the arm out. There is a bit of height i can cut away... but it won't be as drastic as it probably should be. I'll have to lower the heel of his foot too if i do that.... If i change one thing i have to change a dozen things! haha.
Want to make sure the wings slide fully together when he's a bot. 
The nose ends up sitting a little low compared to the line art, (size matters guys. However, I want it to be a bit smaller, said no-one ever.... i'll stop there i think) but that's as high up as it can go as the top of it butts up against the head/neck section. Not too sure how to change that without some sort of changeable nose part... again, needs some more thought, and my 11:40pm brain isn't up to the task currently.
Still need to edit the head to be the right version
As a nice surprise, the rather bulbous canopy actually has enough clearance for the heat shield to slide over, which was my main worry. But i still will make the canopy to be less round for sure. And i need to edit the mechanics of the heat shield just a tad more. 
And there's so many more little things.... I've still got a way to go before i'm happy with it though.

So all in all, it's been a good last week or so. But yeah, finding it interesting the few mechanical vs. style choices i'm running into. I'll just have to do my best to make the best compromises throughout. 'Compromises' makes it sound like i'm giving in... maybe 'design choices' is the better wording, haha. Also only now just starting to get worried about how much sanding this bad boy is gonna need once he's in reality! haha!

Cheers guys, chat soon. 

[arbit]

You've done a great job and learned a lot.

So don't worry about "imperfections".

It is uniquely your work.

[valhary]

looks so nice!

like you mention And I share the arms holes for hold the gunpod does not convince me 

the rest is nearly to be perfect!

[Xigfrid]

It looks fantastic! About the hole in the arm, they don't seem that deep aren't they ? If they are less than 1.5mm deep, they won't be really visible once painted, trust me!