Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, on home media Mar. 13, 2018

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Kelsain said:

Took my 8 yo daughter to see this yesterday at a high-sensitivity showing. We had to take a break, as she declared it the scariest Star Wars ever. She asked to leave repeatedly, but I convinced her to stick it through. In the end, she loved it. I enjoyed it even more the second time around, though I still have issues with the pacing.

Best parts of seeing with her was her excitement for porgs and when 

 

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when Snoke is laying bisected on the ground, she says “pull yourself together, Snoke!”

 

You're doing parenting right. Your daughter is also doing daughtering right.

By the by, what sort of special arrangements have to go into these high-sensitivity showings? Do they dim the screen, keep the lights on, other things?

[Roy Focker]

3 hours ago, jenius said:

 

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I now also understand that Finn's casino plot isn't about Finn, it's another Poe f up to teach Poe another lesson... As well as the needed contrivance to set up the seeds of rebellion at the end. That ridiculous Maz scene also helps enforce the bad decision being made.

My problem with it is

It is still a pointless side story.   You could argue that it all there to explain the broom kid in the end as a message that the light side of the force didn't die with Luke and that the force and good lives on in a new generation.  But we already have that symbol in Ray.   Luke's dead but Ray is the new hope.  With her taking his place we know there will always be a new generation of heroes.  They could have told a whole Poe, Finn and Rose storyline in the battleships without a the unneeded detour.

This movie was bad not because of character's acting different but because a bad comedic tone and needlessly subplots.  I'm tempted to buy a copy of it just to see if the movie can re-edited to something better.

[electric indigo]

Drop the casino planet and replace the space chase with the episode "33" from Moore's Battlestar Galactica and you're done.

[Chronocidal]

After letting it stew a bit, I can basically say that I liked the overall plot, in spite of the fact that the entire lynchpin that the plot hung on was the flimsiest piece of crap plot device in movie history.

 

 

The basic truth of this movie is that every single character in both the Resistance and the First Order lacks anything resembling the tactical expertise of a five year old.

The Resistance was stupid enough to fly all of their heavily loaded bombers close enough that a single direct hit was enough to cause mass fratricide.  And to not scatter their fleet in the first place.  The entire leadership should have been slapped upside the head for not even using the most basic of tactics that had kept the Rebel Alliance alive in the original trilogy.  Fortunately, the entire leadership that got them in that situation wound up dead anyway. 

The First Order?  How in blazes have they made it this far without the slightest concept of how to navigate space, or attack a vessel limping away on fumes?  Were they honestly so stupid and/or lazy that no one in their entire freaking fleet could have attacked that Mon Cal cruiser head-on?  Did they have no other ships to jump in ahead of them?  Did they have no concept of how to plot smaller jumps to surround them?  Do they honestly not have enough fighters or bombers of any type to take out a single heavy cruiser?

Seriously.  The entire plot hinged on a situation that makes any of Dr. Evil's "perilous schemes" look masterful by comparison.  None of these dipwads seem to have the tactical skill to defeat a 3rd grader in a game of tic-tac-toe.  If they did, the movie would have been over in 10 minutes or less.

Aside from that.. just tons of little niggling things scattered throughout.  Refusing to follow logic of any sort, or tactics or ideas that worked in the past.  All told, it was a Gilligan plot.  The entire movie was a desperate struggle to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

That being said?  It was still an enjoyable movie.  Ignoring the key problems, and the fact that half the plot depended on nonsense, the lousy setup didn't mean that they didn't accidentally wind up getting where the universe kind of needed to go.  It was a stupid journey full of dumb decisions and pants-on-head tactics, but it provided the necessary backdrop to get the characters where they needed to be... sort of.

I can understand why the critics love it, while the fans despise it.  It's a fun movie... it just tries its absolute hardest to completely avoid following any logic previously established by the rest of the franchise, and that's a serious failing from a continuity standpoint.

I think my personal favorite thing about the movie is that it pretty much wipes the slate clean.  The First Order is now in the hands of Tweedle-dumb and Tweedle-dumber, and missing most of their fleet.  I'll be astounded if they don't all kill each other within a week.  The Resistance is down to a single ship, with barely enough people to accomplish anything bigger than an ad campaign.

I'm kind of hoping we get a bigger time skip this time until Episode IX, because the "5 minutes later" aspect of TLJ was one of its weakest points.  The opening crawl mentions that the First Order has suddenly taken control of the galaxy, but when was that supposed to happen?  I thought they were a fringe element of the remaining Imperial holdings?  And you can't seriously convince me that none of the New Republic worlds fought back against them.

Honestly?  Part of me is wondering if either the First Order or Resistance are even relevant to 99% of the galaxy.  I was under the impression that the New Republic and Empire had kind of come to an understanding, and each occupied their own sections of space, kind of like the later EU books portrayed.  Maybe the rest of both factions are kind of looking at the First Order and Resistance like squabbles between street gangs, and they're all hoping they'll just kill each other off at this point?

Oh, also.  Ballistic lasers.   

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Chronocidal

[derex3592]

@Kelsain Awesomeness! Glad your daughter enjoyed it! 

Edited December 24, 2017 by derex3592

[Kelsain]

3 hours ago, kajnrig said:

You're doing parenting right. Your daughter is also doing daughtering right.

By the by, what sort of special arrangements have to go into these high-sensitivity showings? Do they dim the screen, keep the lights on, other things?

I LOLed pretty hard at that point.

In the theatre, they damped down the volume and evened out the sound mix while leaving the house lights on, but dim.

My daughter has problems with the loudness at the movies, so she usually wears my shop ear protectors. We didn’t pack those for holiday travel, so this was a lucky break. There was also no stigma for being loud or disruptive.

[David Hingtgen]

"Force Pull" is one of the most basic moves, so master-level application of it...

[kajnrig]

34 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

"Force Pull" is one of the most basic moves, so master-level application of it...

Plot twist:

Leia wasn't pulling herself to the ship, she was puling the ship to her OHHHHHHH

[Mommar]

Wow, 77% drop in attendance between first and second week box office take.  104.7 million down to 24.6.... that's not a good sign.

[Roy Focker]

You can really tell the difference in tone by looking at General Hux. In The Force Awakens he's your stereotypical classic ranting Nazi straight from a classic war movie.  In The Last Jedi he's a Mel Brook's Nazi.  

I'll accept a few stupid decisions for the sake of the plot.   "Because Movie" is something that were use to.  They just go overboard with it.  Usually you'll notice characters acting stupid and a things not making sense on repeat viewings cause there's so few or they're well hidden.  This movie is so long your mind has time to process it quicker.

 

[slaginpit]

 

[slaginpit]

I really dont understand. Brains and how they work. Hmmm I dont think that movie was good. Let me spend more money so disney thinks this was a massive success. Hmmm I think it was bad but there were some cool moments let me see it a third time.

 

Sigh

 

 

 

[Chronocidal]

See, I might still go see it a second time because the good parts were genuinely fun to see.  The plot vehicle was just a duct taped jalopy sputtering through space while it carried the worthwhile plot points.

[azrael]

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Plot twist:

...

Must have took some massive concentration for her to pull the ship to her and not die in the vacuum of space... 

2 hours ago, slaginpit said:

I really dont understand. Brains and how they work. Hmmm I dont think that movie was good. Let me spend more money so disney thinks this was a massive success. Hmmm I think it was bad but there were some cool moments let me see it a third time.

Thankfully, I spent no money, watched it and got other stuff done at the same time.

[slaginpit]

 

[sh9000]

Epic action figure playset.

[slaginpit]

I love the guy with the beard. The Guy next to him reminds me of a typical beta male millennial

 

 

Edited December 25, 2017 by slaginpit

[slaginpit]

29 minutes ago, sh9000 said:

 

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Epic action figure playset.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

copulate me.......Star Wars and Rian Jerfkoff Johnson will be the next meme for a century

[slaginpit]

Ugh

[kajnrig]

Man, someone is super super salty about Star Wars.

[slaginpit]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Man, someone is super super salty about Star Wars.

That and about half the audience

[kalvasflam]

You bastard, Mr. Iger wants his money, where is his money, man?

You better be spending a ton of money on the Jedi milk set, cause we only get royalties.

better buy a ton of those or Mr. Iger and his buddy Mr. Cook are gonna track you down.  

Edited December 25, 2017 by kalvasflam

[electric indigo]

Does anybody remember what happens to the dice from the Falcon in the end?

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, electric indigo said:

Does anybody remember what happens to the dice from the Falcon in the end?

End of OT? I dunno. End of Last Jedi:

Ghost Luke hands them to Leia, and they end up on the floor of the base. Kylo Ren picks them up, and they disappear in his hand. Not sure if they were never there to begin with and Luke just found what he/the Force wanted him to find, or if they're with Luke on Island Planet still, or if they're on the Falcon still.

[Chronocidal]

26 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

 

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End of OT? I dunno. End of Last Jedi:

Ghost Luke hands them to Leia, and they end up on the floor of the base. Kylo Ren picks them up, and they disappear in his hand. Not sure if they were never there to begin with and Luke just found what he/the Force wanted him to find, or if they're with Luke on Island Planet still, or if they're on the Falcon still.

 

The dice were never there to begin with, along with Luke.  His force projection handed her a tangible illusion of them, which, for whatever reason, were left on the floor of the base control room.  Frankly, I'm surprised Leia didn't take them with her, but it wasn't really important at the moment, so I didn't think of it at the time.

Kylo later picked them up from the room when they found the base abandoned, and the illusion evaporated in his hand.  I'm assuming the timing was meant to coincide with Luke's death, but the timeline's a little squishy, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he waited until that exact moment to let the illusion fade.

[Kanedas Bike]

Saw it a second time with a different group of friends. I enjoyed it as much if not a little bit more than my first viewing. The parts I hated the first time around I hated and same for those that I really, really, really enjoyed. I've got at least one more trip to the movies as my Mom wants to see it (she's the entire reason I like Sci Fi, Horror, toys, etc. - it's because she's a fan).

A lot of really good/thoughtful replies in the thread, both for and against whether or not TLJ is a good movie. I wanted to respond to these since they were geared towards my last post;

On 12/22/2017 at 3:49 PM, captain america said:

I guess you could say that those fan theories about the Supreme Leader all went up in Snoke! 

HA!

On 12/22/2017 at 3:59 PM, BlackRose said:

For me that was the movie's biggest weak point.  You can't just change gears like that and act like it's no big thing.

I submit to you that it was in essence the very definition of a plot twist. But I certainly don't begrudge you or anyone who was annoyed by the lack of payoff - if I cared about that particular character and their story or origins I'd be pissed off too.

On 12/22/2017 at 5:57 PM, azrael said:

Those questions were not answered at all and will likely need some good arm twisting to write those answers.

As for...

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the Force being hereditary, I assumed it was in a sense. The issue is that those who committed to the Jedi or Sith codes made it a firm commitment and it would be assumed they would have no time to commit to doing other things like having kids. From the Jedi, we know they abstain from forming attachments. Loving a single unique person would be an attachment and would go against their motto of "Letting go." So the Jedi and Sith went around the galaxy looking for force-sensitive beings to bring into their ranks. Every Jedi and Sith are basically nobodies. Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda, Anakin, Palpatine, etc. All nobodies but they became somebody for the sake of the story.

Rey being a nobody isn't a problem. Rey being powerful isn't a problem. Rey exhibiting traits that she found out existed only a day before is my beef. At least Luke had Obi-wan at the start to nudge him in the right direction (and the dialog from TESB seems to imply he may have learned a few things on his own between movies). Rey had no one and yet here she is moving hundreds of heavy rocks with only 2 lectures. Luke had much longer tutelage under Yoda and couldn't lift his X-Wing out of a swamp.

You make really good points, but you contradict yourself about not carrying how powerful Rey is. The answer on how/why she can do a lot of the things she does is because of just how strong with the force she is. I think it would behoove JJ or whomever rights Episode IX to explain the 'why' or at least give more context otherwise some will continue to be annoyed at just how powerful she is.

 

Spoiler

(although she was no match at all whatsoever for Snoke)

 

I read an article that talked about how the initial fan reaction for the Empire Strikes Back was mixed as well, although I don't think it was as extreme. Either way I'm really fascinated to see how history treats TFA, TLJ and this new Trilogy as a whole.

-b.

[azrael]

16 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

You make really good points, but you contradict yourself about not carrying how powerful Rey is. The answer on how/why she can do a lot of the things she does is because of just how strong with the force she is. I think it would behoove JJ or whomever rights Episode IX to explain the 'why' or at least give more context otherwise some will continue to be annoyed at just how powerful she is.

Power is one thing. How to wield that power is another. That's the distinction I make. Every Force-user we've met has had to learn how to use that power regardless of how powerful they are. Rey never had any instruction, at all. She just learned what she was literally a day ago and now she's using it with such high aptitude. Yes, they better write a good explanation because we are still where we were from the Episode 7 at this point.

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

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The dice were never there to begin with, along with Luke.  His force projection handed her a tangible illusion of them, which, for whatever reason, were left on the floor of the base control room.  Frankly, I'm surprised Leia didn't take them with her, but it wasn't really important at the moment, so I didn't think of it at the time.

Kylo later picked them up from the room when they found the base abandoned, and the illusion evaporated in his hand.  I'm assuming the timing was meant to coincide with Luke's death, but the timeline's a little squishy, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he waited until that exact moment to let the illusion fade.

 

I meant earlier in the film, when

Luke first sees them on the MF. I don't know if they were real even then. I vaguely remember some ornamentation in the OT, but can't say if they remained there the whole trilogy or what they were. So I meant I didn't know if Luke actually saw them in the MF's cockpit or if he was seeing what he/the Force wanted him to see. And then from there Ghost-he gives it or Ghost-it to real-Leia, and then it/Ghost-it ends up on the floor where real-Kylo picks it/Ghost-it up and it/Ghost-it disappears.

[Thom]

Spoiler

 

I don't recall any dice from the OT, but I just assume they are a memento from Ben's childhood, and it will hopefully play a part in the next movie to give them some context.

And like Luke, they were never there. Leia knew that and so left them for her Kylo to find.

 

 

[Kanedas Bike]

2 hours ago, azrael said:

Power is one thing. How to wield that power is another. That's the distinction I make. Every Force-user we've met has had to learn how to use that power regardless of how powerful they are. Rey never had any instruction, at all. She just learned what she was literally a day ago and now she's using it with such high aptitude. Yes, they better write a good explanation because we are still where we were from the Episode 7 at this point.

But see, she's not a Force wielding genius, it's more like brute strength. So what she moved some rocks and grabbed a Light Saber? She's was shown to have some hand-to-hand fighting aptitude when she knocked Finn on his ass in TFA.

She didn't 

Spoiler

resist Snoke, and he handled her with ease. From force movement, to lighting to being able to read her thoughts/feelings. If she was you write, she'd have had some success against him. She. Had. None. In that alone it shows she needs instruction. She's like a brute force attacker vs. being elegant or skilled.

Staff and Light Saber skill notwithstanding.

From a purely Force aptitude perspective he bested Kylo Ren in TFA, Storm Troopers and some rocks.

-b.

[nhyone]

3 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

I read an article that talked about how the initial fan reaction for the Empire Strikes Back was mixed as well, although I don't think it was as extreme. Either way I'm really fascinated to see how history treats TFA, TLJ and this new Trilogy as a whole.

No film has a 100% like, so you will definitely find people who dislike ESB. The question is, how many are there? If it were 10%, is that considered a "mixed reaction"?

Rogue One and TFA had much more favourable ratings. Why didn't TLJ? Because they were more conventional? Or had more fan-service? And why the big difference between critic and audience score? Was the film really that good or were the critics bought off?

Pieced together from the reviews I've watched, TLJ still feels very much like ESB, just rearranged. It has all the same elements. Empire is extremely powerful and in charge (doesn't make sense here). They attack a resistance hideout at the start. The resistance tries its best to escape but can't shake the Empire off. A Jedi-newbie goes to look for a Jedi master to be trained. Someone goes to "Cloud city", finds help, is betrayed by said-help and is captured by the Empire. The place gets trashed. The Jedi-newbie interrupts her training (next to none in this film) to save her friends. (The throne room is very RotJ.) There is a ground battle on a white planet. Epic light saber non-fight between a novice and a master (the master is toying with novice.) At the end of the film, it is the resistance's darkest hour.

It works in ESB because it is a very simple story and the scenes flows very smoothly and logically. And it is very held back. It shows you only a glimpse into that world and the Empire's power, letting you imagine the rest.
 

Spoiler

IMO, Leia's use of the force is meant to show the power of the force that we had not expected. Just like Yoda lifting the X-Wing out of the swamp in ESB. It is supposed to be awesome. But all it got was howling guffaw and rolling eyes.

As for Luke's milk, I suppose it is meant to answer how he lived on the island. But really, do they have to show the milking process?

Sure, it's a new trilogy and they have to kill off the old characters to make room for new ones. But can't the original cast get a more heroic sendoff? Has any other director treated a decades-long franchise with less respect?

Having said the above, I think the next film will be better. If it draws parallel to RotJ, its main theme will be redemption and there will be a time skip. This will allow Rey to master her skills and the resistance to build up their strength for the final confrontation. But, "it's a trap!"

Edited December 26, 2017 by nhyone

[electric indigo]

Also, expect R2 and 3PO end up in a trash compactor and Chewie going up in flames along with the Falcon if they follow their concept.

[Dobber]

10 hours ago, Thom said:

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I don't recall any dice from the OT, but I just assume they are a memento from Ben's childhood, and it will hopefully play a part in the next movie to give them some context.

And like Luke, they were never there. Leia knew that and so left them for her Kylo to find.

 

 

The dice can be seen in ANH. When Cherie goes into the cockpit in Mos Eisly to prep the Falcon, his head bumps them and you see them jingle.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Dobber

[Thom]

8 hours ago, Dobber said:

The dice can be seen in ANH. When Cherie goes into the cockpit in Mos Eisly to prep the Falcon, his head bumps them and you see them jingle.

Cool. Thanks! And now, I will call him Cherie from now on!

[kajnrig]

"bonjour ma cherie je t'aime je t'aime"

"GRRRAAAARGLERGLERGLERRRRRAAARARARARARA"