Star Trek: Discovery

[JB0]

On 9/10/2017 at 9:49 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

What book was it where Data wasn't sure about her origins?  All the more recent stuff plays her "Yesterday's Enterprise" origin dead straight.

I honestly don't remember. I read so many of them, and for the most part I just have isolated scenes bouncing around in my head now.

 

The traditional outlook from the crew's perspective was always some flavor of "she is NOT Yar's daughter, her story is ridiculous whether she believes it or not... but she sure does LOOK like Yar..." The tale she spun them was obviously crazy, but... there was always this nagging doubt floating around.  Surely if she were going to lie it would be a better one, right?

From the reader's perspective, as from Sela's perspective, her story was an obvious factual truth. But the crew of the Enterprise-D was completely ignorant of the time-travelling parallel-universe version of Tasha Yar that DIDN'T die a senseless death in a puddle of black ink(except Guinan, of course, because she has space magic).

...

Come to think of it, Sela was probably ignorant of the primary timeline's own Tasha Yar, so I guess that knife cuts both ways.  .

 

The episodic nature of the books back in the day obviously prevented anyone from upsetting the status quo, no matter how much they may have wanted to. 

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, JB0 said:

The traditional outlook from the crew's perspective was always some flavor of "she is NOT Yar's daughter, her story is ridiculous whether she believes it or not... but she sure does LOOK like Yar..." The tale she spun them was obviously crazy, but... there was always this nagging doubt floating around.  Surely if she were going to lie it would be a better one, right?

Say what you will about the Tal Shiar's alleged brilliance in the field of espionage... their "onscreen" performance is somewhere south of terrible, given that they've been infiltrated and beaten at their own game by (in no particular order): United Earth Section 31, the V'Shar, the Vulcan High Command, UFP Section 31, Klingon Intelligence, Starfleet Intelligence, regular goddamn Starfleet, the Vulcan reunification movement, and the Founders.

Let it never be forgotten that they wiped themselves out TWICE... once in a botched attempt to do in the Founders, and once by creating that prat Shinzon.  There is no recovering your dignity after being beaten by a bad clone of Picard wearing a rainbow-tinted pleather onesie.

Their ability to come up with a credible fib is somewhat suspect... though they could have been counting on the shock value of seeing someone who was a dead ringer for one of Picard's dead subordinates to throw him enough that a bad explanation would work.

 

Quote

From the reader's perspective, as from Sela's perspective, her story was an obvious factual truth. But the crew of the Enterprise-D was completely ignorant of the time-travelling parallel-universe version of Tasha Yar that DIDN'T die a senseless death in a puddle of black ink(except Guinan, of course, because she has space magic).

There is a certain irony in the fact that Armus was a black latex bag covered in liquified dietary fiber supplement dyed black with a water-soluble printer's ink.  There are so many different scatological jokes I can make about that in that episode that I'm genuinely spoiled for choice.

... did they ever explain Guinan's apparent knowledge of alternate timelines and why Q is afraid of her?  The other El-Aurians never displayed any special powers.

 

 

Quote

Come to think of it, Sela was probably ignorant of the primary timeline's own Tasha Yar, so I guess that knife cuts both ways.  .

She was in the Tal Shiar, I'd expect they would have at least general profiles of the key officers who served aboard the Federation flagship... including the deceased ones.  It's not like Tasha's death is a state secret, though clearly nobody bothered telling her next-of-kin.

 

Quote

The episodic nature of the books back in the day obviously prevented anyone from upsetting the status quo, no matter how much they may have wanted to. 

I dunno, I think Vendetta gave it the good ol' college try... what with the reveal that the Borg were an ancient race, and that the Preservers had built the Planet Killers to destroy them, and that the one Kirk and co. disabled was a rough prototype that the genuine article made look like a piece of junk.

It kind of became a noodle incident for the Pocket Books Star Trek: the Next Generation series, since Delcara took her still-functional Planet Killer to go hunt the Borg in the delta quadrant.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Seto Kaiba

[Chronocidal]

I don't know what you'd call a reverse ret-con (maybe proactive continuity?) but I think later on someone linked Guinan's "space magic" senses to her time spent in the Nexus.  Can't say where I heard that though, so my mind may have made it up.

Otherwise, she was shown hopping around the timeline like a teenager on a joyride.  Unless it was just a casting screw-up showing her younger on the Enterprise B than she was in San Francisco in the late 1800s, she wasn't seeing everything in order, and who knows how many times she may have been back and forth across the timeline.

Personally, I'm just going to write her off as Gallifreyan, and be done with it.  She never made sense anyway.  

[Dobber]

New theme can be heard here. Gotta say it's not so bad. I think it blends old with new pretty well. 

Chris

Edited September 12, 2017 by Dobber

[wm cheng]

Wow!  Despite all the negative stuff I've seen and heard about Discovery, the music ain't half bad!

[Chronocidal]

So.. I can't say it was bad musically, but it really just sounded like someone slapped bits of classic Trek themes on the ends of some stock trailer music.  The center portion sounded a lot like.. well, frankly?  I thought someone ripped it from one of the "Pirates of the Caribbean" soundtracks.  I kept expecting it to jump straight into one of the main themes.. actually, that's it exactly.  It's like someone twisted around the "Hoist the Colours" bit in the third movie.

One of the comments about the video mentions a conversation held between Robert Wise and Jerry Goldsmith, about his first attempt at the ST:TMP score lacking a signature theme.  This has exactly that same problem.  It's good enough as a background track, but it sounds like it's just a lead-in to a distinct theme that never happens.  It needs some sort of actual melodic line for you to hold onto, or it's just going to be completely forgotten.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Chronocidal

[JB0]

16 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... did they ever explain Guinan's apparent knowledge of alternate timelines and why Q is afraid of her? 

Well, she DID stab Q with a fork that one time...

 

15 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I don't know what you'd call a reverse ret-con (maybe proactive continuity?) but I think later on someone linked Guinan's "space magic" senses to her time spent in the Nexus.  Can't say where I heard that though, so my mind may have made it up.

I've seen it before too, though I couldn't peg where it originated. It'd definitely be a traditional retcon, though. Guinan's character was created YEARS before anyone thought of the nexus.

 

15 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Personally, I'm just going to write her off as Gallifreyan, and be done with it.  She never made sense anyway.  

Guinan is a time lord? That is as good an answer as any, and there's probably two dozen fanfics over the years exploring the possibility.

I think the original intent was mostly just supposed to be that her species had a "sixth sense" for transdimensional nonsense.

[Mommar]

That was not a theme.

[wm cheng]

OK, you guys are right... (man tough crowd) the parts I liked best are the beginning and end which is the original theme - I guess there wasn't anything humm-able in the middle to define it as its own theme.

[Chronocidal]

Tough crowd indeed, but remember where you're posting.

To me, the lead-in and ending are almost too similar to the original theme.. it's obvious nostalgia-bait, but then the switch to the "theme" is so jarring that I think the disconnect is more off-putting than helpful.  Then all you're left with is a stock "building tension" sequence of strings jumping all over the scale, making you think it's going somewhere... then it doesn't.  It just falls off, and slaps you with another nostalgia riff to the face.

It's like they took two entirely separate themes of format A-B-C and D-E-F, and then did a cut and paste to give you A-E-F.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

On 9/12/2017 at 0:57 PM, Chronocidal said:

I don't know what you'd call a reverse ret-con (maybe proactive continuity?) but I think later on someone linked Guinan's "space magic" senses to her time spent in the Nexus.  Can't say where I heard that though, so my mind may have made it up.

Otherwise, she was shown hopping around the timeline like a teenager on a joyride.  Unless it was just a casting screw-up showing her younger on the Enterprise B than she was in San Francisco in the late 1800s, she wasn't seeing everything in order, and who knows how many times she may have been back and forth across the timeline.

Maybe just a fan theory?  The nexus never gave anyone else space magic.

I had always assumed that her species was simply one of those ones on the verge of evolving into an energy lifeform, but her official bio casts some doubt on whether she's even really an El-Aurian.  One has to wonder if she isn't a former traveling companion of Q's or some similar species antagonistic to the Q and better at masquerading as a moral.

 

On 9/12/2017 at 0:57 PM, Chronocidal said:

Personally, I'm just going to write her off as Gallifreyan, and be done with it.  She never made sense anyway.  

They did a Doctor Who crossover comic at one point, and Guinan is implied therein to have prior knowledge of the Doctor for reasons she doesn't go into...

 

 

On 9/12/2017 at 2:34 PM, Dobber said:

New theme can be heard here. Gotta say it's not so bad. I think it blends old with new pretty well.

... 's pretty unremarkable, isn't it?  This doesn't scream "main theme" to me.  There's no real consistent melodic thread to it, it's just a bunch of background ambiance pieces strung together.  Fitting enough for a series that's hacked together out of rejected bits, but still...

 

 

14 hours ago, JB0 said:

Well, she DID stab Q with a fork that one time...

There is that.  She bullied Trelane in one of the novels too.

[Dynaman]

She stabs Q and gets away with it, bullied Trelane in a novel and gets away with it - and somehow the Borg managed to nearly take out her species?

[Mommar]

13 hours ago, Dynaman said:

She stabs Q and gets away with it, bullied Trelane in a novel and gets away with it - and somehow the Borg managed to nearly take out her species?

Maybe she didn't have a fork when the Borg showed up.

[Seto Kaiba]

16 hours ago, Dynaman said:

She stabs Q and gets away with it, bullied Trelane in a novel and gets away with it - and somehow the Borg managed to nearly take out her species?

Trelane was more powerful than usual when she did it too...

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Maybe she didn't have a fork when the Borg showed up.

Maybe the Borg assimilated the silverware drawer first?

[derex3592]

On 9/14/2017 at 8:45 AM, Mommar said:

Maybe she didn't have a fork when the Borg showed up.

Hahahahahahahaha! 

[mechaninac]

On 9/14/2017 at 9:45 AM, Mommar said:

Maybe she didn't have a fork when the Borg showed up.

... It's like ten thousand spoons when All you need is a kni... err... fork...

[Mommar]

You can't get the same leverage with a spork.

[UN Spacy]

 

[slaginpit]

2 hours ago, UN Spacy said:

 

PFttt muahhahahahahahahahhha aaaarrrrrraaahhahahahaha

wow they cant even do that right. Someone Better call bungie that they got ripped off.

[Thom]

14 minutes ago, slaginpit said:

PFttt muahhahahahahahahahhha aaaarrrrrraaahhahahahaha

wow they cant even do that right. Someone Better call bungie that they got ripped off.

Yeah, I'd have to say that was underwhelming. I kept waiting for it to actually get started, but it just seemed to go on idle right until the legacy TOS chords came in - and then it just ended.  It better be written and acted exceptionally, or they've just dropped the ball on every front.

Having said that, I will not be watching. Found out the first episode is on regular TV but the second is only on-line with their streaming service..? So, I'd have to pay and go on-line to see the resolution to the first episodes? No. When they get their heads on straight and just put it on Netflix in the US - as it is for everyone else!! - I may watch it, or get it from some other place after it's been on for a while.

And even so, the crappy look of the ship is still a killer for me. Another thing they didn't get right...

Edited September 24, 2017 by Thom

[slaginpit]

3 minutes ago, Thom said:

Yeah, I'd have to say that was underwhelming. I kept waiting for it to actually get started, but it just seemed to go on idle right until the legacy TOS chords came in - and then it just ended.  It better be written and acted exceptionally, or they've just dropped the ball on every front.

Having said that, I will not be watching. Found out the first episode is on regular TV but the second is only on-line with their streaming service..? So, I'd have to pay and go on-line to see the resolution to the first episodes? No. When they get their heads on straight and just put it on Netflix in the US - as it is for everyone else!! - I may watch it, or get it from some other place after it's been on for a while.

And even so, the crappy look of the ship is still a killer for me. Another thing they didn't get right...

E

Z

T

V

is

F

R

E

E

 

PS. Did anyone call Cayde yet? I mean its a total ripoff right you can see that right???

Edited September 24, 2017 by slaginpit

[505thAirborne]

It's on regular CBS right now, I hope it's decent because I'm passing up the BSG marathon for it. 

[davidwhangchoi]

this is so good.

 

Mass Effect the next generation

[Kanedas Bike]

Watched it on CBS.

Obviously in the minority because I actually liked the title sequence.

Obviously in the majority because I thought the first episode was underwhelming, not BAD, just meh. But a lot of pilot or first episodes are like that, shows can take time to catch their stride. 

Having said that I would watch if the show were on Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime or CBS - I have and/or pay for those - but I'm not adding another streaming service that will be limited in content, especially compared to what I already subscribe to.

So...yeah...I guess I'll find out what happens once this comes to something other than CBS All Access.

-b.

[Phobos]

That main title sequence was horrible!

[Mommar]

I liked it well enough.  It's piqued my curiosity enough I might pay for AllAccess.  Hell, I did just get an $8000 raise at work, might as well spend what's leftover after the SDF-1 and Max and Milia Valks. 

[azrael]

I'd probably watch episode 2 as it appears to be a 2-part pilot. That being said....

After watching the first 2 episodes...I'm still confused about the premise of this show.

Opening theme/sequence: I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get out of watching the visuals. Every Star Trek opening sequence had some takeaway from the visuals. Is this supposed to be a blueprint or something? The theme is fine until the TOS chords play at the end, then it just sounds weird.

Discovery's design seems to fit a pattern with the ships in this show. So I let that go but it still, it feels like it has too many sharp edges, especially on the Drive-section.

Now for spoilery stuff...

-Phase Cannons! Yah! Phasers! Boooo! Get your dialog continuity right!
-I don't like the holo-emitter com-system. Kinda getting ahead of ourselves there aren't we?
-Judging by the other Klingon uniforms from the other great houses and the dialog, the Klingons we are focused on are a cult.

[Graham]

Episodes one and two are just up on Netflix Hong Kong, so I'll watch them when I get home tonight.

[Dobber]

I liked the first episode, but unfortunately won't be seeing the rest of the series....at least until it either it becomes available on another service that is commonly used or will just buy the season once it is finished (assuming it will be for sale) I refuse to reward CBS for fleecing the American fan base by putting the show behind ANOTHER pay wall....that 1) the show was already paid for by Netflix, 2) All Access has ad revenue by still including commercials...which you can pay even more money to them to remove 3) already pay for CBS by paying for satellite or cable. People keep complaining about corporate greed and the high price of things but then keep buying. Nothing will change if we give them what they want. If you want to pay for it, obviously that's your prerogative, I just can't do it. I worry it'll set a bad precedent and other networks will follow suit.

Chris

[slaginpit]

SO um

 

I love this live action Destiny show. Very cool. Bungie really incorporated their Destiny 1 and 2 start up graphics. That Titan Captain armor is pretty cool. Although Im not fond of the helmet.

 

The Hive were pretty cool. I wonder if that big light thing was the traveler. Cant wait for Oryx in episode three

[Dynaman]

> Now for spoilery stuff...

 

The last one is not a spoiler I believe - it was mentioned in the press releases somewhere.  But I'm not posting it just in case.  I didn't even bother to watch the show, can't be bothered till I can watch the whole thing on some service I already own.

[Kanedas Bike]

4 hours ago, slaginpit said:

SO um

 

I love this live action Destiny show. Very cool. Bungie really incorporated their Destiny 1 and 2 start up graphics. That Titan Captain armor is pretty cool. Although Im not fond of the helmet.

 

The Hive were pretty cool. I wonder if that big light thing was the traveler. Cant wait for Oryx in episode three

You're trying too hard to throw shade. Won't comment on the budget or skill used on the CGI, but beyond the opening which is similar to other openings in that it used animated schematics nothing in the show was even remotely Destiny. 1 or 2, both of which I've played and/or am currently playing.

And + 1,000,000 to you Dobber - that's exactly my stance on the issue.

-b.

[Seto Kaiba]

20 hours ago, UN Spacy said:

 

Well, I'm genuinely unsure which was less impressive... the opening title on its own, or the actual first episode.

Considering it was supposed to sell us on the idea of paying for CBS All Access, I'd call the first episode of STD a resounding failure.  It wasn't as bad as I'd feared, but it wasn't anything like good either.  It has established a firm foothold in the bleak, cloying void of ambivalence by having less substance to it than Prelude to Axanar.  I feel I might have been kinder to it if it didn't have Star Trek in the title, because it really doesn't feel like a Star Trek series.  Put some laser swords in it and I'd be prepared to accept it as a bad Star Wars prequel flick tho...

 

 

11 hours ago, azrael said:

Now for spoilery stuff...

  Hide contents

-Phase Cannons! Yah! Phasers! Boooo! Get your dialog continuity right!
-I don't like the holo-emitter com-system. Kinda getting ahead of ourselves there aren't we?
-Judging by the other Klingon uniforms from the other great houses and the dialog, the Klingons we are focused on are a cult.

 

Spoiler

- Six of one, half a dozen of the other... there was a rather breathtakingly inane "reveal" a couple years after Enterprise went off the air that "phaser" is a slang/shorthand term for a phased particle weapon, not a separate class of them.  So, really, the phase pistols and phase cannons ARE phasers... it's just people aren't using the slang.  (An idiotic idea that got picked up by the Enterprise relaunch novels, where the term was first coined by the armory officer on the USS Essex during a battle with the Klingons.)

- A bit, yes... only by 118 years, though.  That kind of holo-communications setup was introduced as a brand new system deployed to the Federation Starfleet in 2373 in the fifth season episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine "For the Uniform".

- Not our first Klingon cult, mind... there were those crazies in Star Trek: Voyager who were operating as a generation ship while searching for the Klingon messiah, and the expanded universe threw a few more in like a splinter faction of the cult from Voyager who believed the messiah would bring the Klingon gods back to life, or having Martok belong to a cult of Klingon ascetics who basically made him into the Klingon King Arthur.

 

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

  Hide contents

- Six of one, half a dozen of the other... there was a rather breathtakingly inane "reveal" a couple years after Enterprise went off the air that "phaser" is a slang/shorthand term for a phased particle weapon, not a separate class of them.  So, really, the phase pistols and phase cannons ARE phasers... it's just people aren't using the slang.  (An idiotic idea that got picked up by the Enterprise relaunch novels, where the term was first coined by the armory officer on the USS Essex during a battle with the Klingons.)

 

 If they're going to call them Phase Cannons, call them Phase Cannons. If they're going to call them Phasers, call them Phasers. I find it annoying when they bounce around like that without something to fill in the use the slang.

[Dobber]

In "The Cage" didn't Pike say they were using lasers and that the Enterprise had the "new" phasers on board? This show takes place very near "The Cage" and the Constitution class should already be launched. The Enterprise under the command of Robert April.