BANDAI DX YF-19!!

[HayateAltoHunter]

6 hours ago, Sildani said:

Sigh. I hope I can find one on launch day somewhere. 

I got POs with 3 sellers to avoid a 31A fiasco, i sould have an extra if they all come through. PM if interested. 

[Chronocidal]

1 hour ago, Slave IV said:

Haha, I forgot that in Macross fiction, the firepower of the gun pods is much greater than an GAU-8 so I guess that works. However, specs and physical limitations mean they carry a lot less ammo but that doesn’t seem to be a big issue in the cartoons. 

So the GAU-8 is 30mm, 7 barrels, and 3900 rounds per minute.  Most Macross gunpods don't have that many barrels, from what I've seen, but use vastly enlarged ammo.

The Macross Tech Manual lists the GPU-9 on the VF-0 as using 35mm shells, with three barrels, while the GU-11 is said to use 55mm shells, with a much slower rate of fire, and much lower ammo capacity, at only 200 rounds (but still more than the F-35A! ).

That increased caliber is a doozy though.  With shells that size firing that fast, the site estimates each GU-11 round at about 1/3 the pure kinetic energy of the main gun on an M1 Abrams.  

I'd assume later gunpods would continue that line of development, generally using larger rounds, but lower rates of fire, and smaller bursts.  If you assume the use of newer advanced technology would allow for more accurate dispersal of bullets, and less scatter, this makes sense.  You wouldn't need nearly as many shots fired to score a significant amount of hits.

Actually, one of the features I remember from the old Robotech Battlecry game was that it gave you a "sniper" mode with the gunpod.  Gameplay-wise, it just allowed for single accurate high-powered shots you could "charge up", but it makes me wonder if something like that could be applied to the internal mechanization of a rotary cannon.  Essentially, lock the rotary barrels down to increase the accuracy, and fire off rounds one at a time, sort of a semi-automatic mode.  Probably not all that useful for an aircraft, but possibly more precise and practical for fighting in battroid mode.

[Mommar]

26 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

So the GAU-8 is 30mm, 7 barrels, and 3900 rounds per minute.  Most Macross gunpods don't have that many barrels, from what I've seen, but use vastly enlarged ammo.

The Macross Tech Manual lists the GPU-9 on the VF-0 as using 35mm shells, with three barrels, while the GU-11 is said to use 55mm shells, with a much slower rate of fire, and much lower ammo capacity, at only 200 rounds (but still more than the F-35A! ).

That increased caliber is a doozy though.  With shells that size firing that fast, the site estimates each GU-11 round at about 1/3 the pure kinetic energy of the main gun on an M1 Abrams.  

I'd assume later gunpods would continue that line of development, generally using larger rounds, but lower rates of fire, and smaller bursts.  If you assume the use of newer advanced technology would allow for more accurate dispersal of bullets, and less scatter, this makes sense.  You wouldn't need nearly as many shots fired to score a significant amount of hits.

Actually, one of the features I remember from the old Robotech Battlecry game was that it gave you a "sniper" mode with the gunpod.  Gameplay-wise, it just allowed for single accurate high-powered shots you could "charge up", but it makes me wonder if something like that could be applied to the internal mechanization of a rotary cannon.  Essentially, lock the rotary barrels down to increase the accuracy, and fire off rounds one at a time, sort of a semi-automatic mode.  Probably not all that useful for an aircraft, but possibly more precise and practical for fighting in battroid mode.

Perhaps we should get Seto in here to explain it all?  I think he’s gone over the trivia for all of the various muzzle velocities before.

[kajnrig]

9 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Actually, one of the features I remember from the old Robotech Battlecry game was that it gave you a "sniper" mode with the gunpod.  Gameplay-wise, it just allowed for single accurate high-powered shots you could "charge up", but it makes me wonder if something like that could be applied to the internal mechanization of a rotary cannon.  Essentially, lock the rotary barrels down to increase the accuracy, and fire off rounds one at a time, sort of a semi-automatic mode.  Probably not all that useful for an aircraft, but possibly more precise and practical for fighting in battroid mode.

Robotech Battlecry (either the manual, the game, or some supporting material) explains that the "charged" sniper round is the electric motor in the gun overcharging and firing three rounds in such quick succession that only a single gunshot is heard; this causes significant strain on the gunpod, explaining the instant overheating in-game.

[Slave IV]

37 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

So the GAU-8 is 30mm, 7 barrels, and 3900 rounds per minute.  Most Macross gunpods don't have that many barrels, from what I've seen, but use vastly enlarged ammo.

The Macross Tech Manual lists the GPU-9 on the VF-0 as using 35mm shells, with three barrels, while the GU-11 is said to use 55mm shells, with a much slower rate of fire, and much lower ammo capacity, at only 200 rounds (but still more than the F-35A! ).

That increased caliber is a doozy though.  With shells that size firing that fast, the site estimates each GU-11 round at about 1/3 the pure kinetic energy of the main gun on an M1 Abrams.  

I'd assume later gunpods would continue that line of development, generally using larger rounds, but lower rates of fire, and smaller bursts.  If you assume the use of newer advanced technology would allow for more accurate dispersal of bullets, and less scatter, this makes sense.  You wouldn't need nearly as many shots fired to score a significant amount of hits.

Actually, one of the features I remember from the old Robotech Battlecry game was that it gave you a "sniper" mode with the gunpod.  Gameplay-wise, it just allowed for single accurate high-powered shots you could "charge up", but it makes me wonder if something like that could be applied to the internal mechanization of a rotary cannon.  Essentially, lock the rotary barrels down to increase the accuracy, and fire off rounds one at a time, sort of a semi-automatic mode.  Probably not all that useful for an aircraft, but possibly more precise and practical for fighting in battroid mode.

Haha, I just read all that too so yeah, Macross gunpods are a decent upgrade over the GAU-8. 

The amount of nerd data analyzing the comparisons on that manual is impressive!

I just love that gun and the A-10. 

[Sildani]

2 hours ago, HayateAltoHunter said:

I got POs with 3 sellers to avoid a 31A fiasco, i sould have an extra if they all come through. PM if interested. 

Consider yourself PM’d. 

[seti88]

Woohoo...detailed technical run-thru of specs on the fly!

Yeah am glad am not alone in thinking that the gunpod made that some-what alike gatling buzz...Glad that question got settled! 

Thanks to all the contributors/Pundits who chimed in!  

All these talk made me check the mecha manual pages, and aside from the GU-15 gunpod reference, i noticed there wasn't any ordinance/payload references....if there is anyone who has em it would be nice to know too! 

 

p.s. BANDAI, make figuarts of the M+ folks!!!...no brainer instabuy!

Edited September 16, 2018 by seti88

[iguanaman8989]

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

All these talk made me check the mecha manual pages, and aside from the GU-15 gunpod reference, i noticed there wasn't any ordinance/payload references....if there is anyone who has em it would be nice to know too! 

Seto answered that question a couple of years ago on Mecha Talk (MAHQ’s forums)

http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16548

[seti88]

thanks! i looked briefly and so far this is what i understand...

The LPP-12 is a beam weapon and, the SPP-8 would then be the payload with the mini heads...

Not exactly sure if thats correct...

[iguanaman8989]

That’s what I figured. The big green missile device is the LPP-12, the other green one is the SPP-8 (which I just noticed has 8 barrels on it).

I did a bit of digging a couple years ago when Arcadia reissued their YF-19, which is when I found that thread.

[jenius]

I need to update my Arcadia YF19 review with this info! I had no idea what all the extra parts even were... Just that they looked cool on the wings.

[Slave IV]

The only confusion I have with the big green one being the LPP-12 is that missile is not mentioned in this description:

The CHM-2 is listed and by deduction, I’m assuming the fins we see on the following  image of the CHM-2 diagram are folded in on the big green missile the toys come with. 

Plus, this same missile is described and shown in the Macross Mecha Manual for the YF-19.

the rest of the payload is easy to figure out since they match descriptions and pictures very closely. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Slave IV

[seti88]

Isn't the chm-2 the deployable missile located in each leg? From the tamashii page there is only 2 of them arranged in the centre pic, likely indicating location to be stored in the leg....

the mecha manual has it pictured as a high speed missile...

[Slave IV]

11 minutes ago, seti88 said:

Isn't the chm-2 the deployable missile located in each leg? From the tamashii page there is only 2 of them arranged in the centre pic, likely indicating location to be stored in the leg....

the mecha manual has it pictured as a high speed missile...

Ok, that would make a lot more sense. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Slave IV]

Now I’m wondering...does the entire pod for the SPP-8 and LPP-12 launch and then deploys weapons from front once closer to target? Have we seen this process shown up close in detail in the anime?

[Chronocidal]

Don't believe it's ever been shown, though we also never saw those weapons carried in the animation to begin with.

Frankly, I think those descriptions were made up entirely off the cuff, without much consideration for what the weapons look like.  There's nothing that remotely suggests the SPP-8s are meant to launch and travel.  The LPP-12s at least have details like folded fins that make them look like they could feasibly fly, but I think the boxes were just meant to be micromissile pods.

Visual details aside, those concepts are rather interesting though, and sound like more advanced developments on things like penetrator warheads, and shaped charges.  Delivering the weapon to point blank range before performing the actual attack would greatly increase lethality, especially if they are directed to attack specific target components.

[Slave IV]

Didn’t think so. Either way, pretty cool stuff. It’s going to be nice having a bunch of weapon options.

[seti88]

Would be great if the 'lore' made its way into the animation. That's an added dimension to dogfights ... 

[seti88]

arm cannon close up detached.

 

[HardlyNever]

6 hours ago, seti88 said:

arm cannon close up detached.

I'm actually surprised it is one connected piece.  I thought it was going to be one piece on each side.  Props to Bandai, hopefully it isn't too fragile.

[spanner]

Maybe I should have read through the thread a little more but has Bandai made any improvements or corrections to their 19 mild?

[Sildani]

New thigh twist just beneath gerwalk joint. Moar tampo. Split opening canopy that’s true to the Plus animation. Blockier heels that may or may not be true to the Plus animation. 

[Chronocidal]

1 minute ago, Sildani said:

New thigh twist just beneath gerwalk joint. Moar tampo. Split opening canopy that’s true to the Plus animation. Blockier heels that may or may not be true to the Plus animation. 

True to battroid animation maybe, but stick out on fighter mode like the 19's developed a crippling case of gout.  

[Sildani]

Yeah... I’m looking forward to your potential fixed heels, sir. 

[Trifalger]

I think I found out what happened with the heels. For some reason Bandai didn't take Arcadia's design cue on the YF-19 with the VF-19 Advance and made the heel piece without an arch so it sits flat instead, making that awkward space that obviously Bandai felt they needed to rectify with the new design. With the Bandai YF-19 full set pack, again, rather than draw from Arcadia they kept the heel flat and simply filled in the upper heel space making them chunkier and hazarding airflow obstruction by forcing them above the fuselage in fighter mode. I'd only hope that hopefully the heels can recess a little to bring them flush with the body of the craft in fighter mode. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Trifalger

[Chronocidal]

53 minutes ago, Trifalger said:

I think I found out what happened with the heels. For some reason Bandai didn't take Arcadia's design cue on the YF-19 with the VF-19 Advance and made the heel piece without an arch so it sits flat instead, making that awkward space that obviously Bandai felt they needed to rectify with the new design. With the Bandai YF-19 full set pack, again, rather than draw from Arcadia they kept the heel flat and simply filled in the upper heel space making them chunkier and hazarding airflow obstruction by forcing them above the fuselage in fighter mode. I'd only hope that hopefully the heels can recess a little to bring them flush with the body of the craft in fighter mode. 

That's part of it, but Bandai badly mis-proportioned the entire foot.  The toe is far too chunky, and the actual foot is far too high on the ankle in fighter mode.  The heels on the Advance only work because they're so skinny.  If you drop the exhaust down to the centerline of the leg where it's supposed to be, and make the toes not so overly thick, the whole thing would line up great.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Chronocidal

[David Hingtgen]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

True to battroid animation maybe, but stick out on fighter mode like the 19's developed a crippling case of gout.  

Yup.  Worst -19 feet ever. 

[Trifalger]

32 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

That's part of it, but Bandai badly mis-proportioned the entire foot.  The toe is far too chunky, and the actual foot is far too high on the ankle in fighter mode.  The heels on the Advance only work because they're so skinny.  If you drop the exhaust down to the centerline of the leg where it's supposed to be, and make the toes not so overly thick, the whole thing would line up great.

Wow. I didn’t know the thrusters weren't centered. I skipped the VF-19 hoping in Bandai’s 2nd run they’d squash any issues. That seems to be the case somewhat but I really don’t know why their design department is taking liberties.

[Chronocidal]

33 minutes ago, Trifalger said:

Wow. I didn’t know the thrusters weren't centered. I skipped the VF-19 hoping in Bandai’s 2nd run they’d squash any issues. That seems to be the case somewhat but I really don’t know why their design department is taking liberties.

I'm just making assumptions, but it seems like they tend to do that on designs someone else has already done, as a way to differentiate them.  Obviously there are some mixed results.

It feels like mostly the changes come down to different ways to interpret the same design, based on emphasizing one or another feature.  Bandai took a very different approach to the YF-19 design than everyone before it, changing some shapes and proportions in ways that make the design unique, and sometimes offer better features (like the waist swivel), but also can negatively affect the overall appearance (all that freakin tampo).

[Trifalger]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I'm just making assumptions, but it seems like they tend to do that on designs someone else has already done, as a way to differentiate them.  Obviously there are some mixed results.

It feels like mostly the changes come down to different ways to interpret the same design, based on emphasizing one or another feature.  Bandai took a very different approach to the YF-19 design than everyone before it, changing some shapes and proportions in ways that make the design unique, and sometimes offer better features (like the waist swivel), but also can negatively affect the overall appearance (all that freakin tampo).

That seems pretty bold of Bandai I think in light of all of the inaccuracies like the fin colors, fin stencil placement, fin gap with fast packs, or the obvious “Sinsei  Industry” misprint. That last one is weird. Shinsei means rebirth and is in any Japanese-English dictionary. しんせい, shi n sei. Makes you question how thorough they are with these releases. Despite that, I’m honestly terribly thankful there is still a strong enough fanbase to merit new iterations of the YF-19 and hope it continues. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Trifalger

[seti88]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I'm just making assumptions, but it seems like they tend to do that on designs someone else has already done, as a way to differentiate them.  Obviously there are some mixed results.

It feels like mostly the changes come down to different ways to interpret the same design, based on emphasizing one or another feature.  Bandai took a very different approach to the YF-19 design than everyone before it, changing some shapes and proportions in ways that make the design unique, and sometimes offer better features (like the waist swivel), but also can negatively affect the overall appearance (all that freakin tampo).

Down to a case of Bandai will be bandai? I can see as well, bandai trying to differentiate their releases (most of the time anyway), to offer releases in exciting new angles, which in a way is good, as some large companies just stay the way they are and become complacent.

However, on the flipside, i also wonder if kawamori or tenjin-san uses bandai to push out design ideas, ie experimentation. It can't be bandai has such a total free hand in handling IP, or can they?
 

1 hour ago, Trifalger said:

That seems pretty bold of Bandai I think in light of all of the inaccuracies like the fin colors, fin stencil placement, fin gap with fast packs, or the obvious “Sinsei  Industry” misprint. That last one is weird. Shinsei means rebirth and is in any Japanese-English dictionary. しんせい, shi n sei. Makes you question how thorough they are with these releases. Despite that, I’m honestly terribly thankful there is still a strong enough fanbase to merit new iterations of the YF-19 and hope it continues. 

Fin colors have been corrected. 

As for sinsei, that perplexed me too, but as someone noted in a post b4, in JP, these kind of spelling/translation gaffe's do happen from time to time.

Edited September 18, 2018 by seti88

[Sanity is Optional]

1 hour ago, seti88 said:

Down to a case of Bandai will be bandai? I can see as well, bandai trying to differentiate their releases (most of the time anyway), to offer releases in exciting new angles, which in a way is good, as some large companies just stay the way they are and become complacent.

 However, on the flipside, i also wonder if kawamori or tenjin-san uses bandai to push out design ideas, ie experimentation. It can't be bandai has such a total free hand in handling IP, or can they?

If you look at the Metal Build Eva unit 1, which is distinct both from the original Evangelion version as well as the rebuild version, Bandai essentially worked with the original designer to make an alternate that specifically was something new and different.

They may have done something similar here to differentiate themselves from the Yamato and Arcadia versions. (Probably moreso the Arcadia version)

[tekering]

2 hours ago, Trifalger said:

“Sinsei  Industry” misprint. That last one is weird. Shinsei means rebirth and is in any Japanese-English dictionary. しんせい, shi n sei. Makes you question how thorough they are with these releases.

Ah, but that's not a misprint or a gaffe, it's merely a stylistic choice.  To us, "shin" and "sin" are two different sounds, but there's no difference in Japanese.  You could spell it "sheen," or "sin," or "seen," or "shin," and it would sound exactly the same.  

Students are still taught the standardized Nihon-shiki system in public school, which uses "sya, si, syu, syo," rather than "sha, shi, shu, sho."

It's like saying "color" is spelled wrong because it's missing the "u"...  "Colour" is also acceptable, of course, but it's much less commonly used.

[Graham]

On 9/15/2018 at 9:10 PM, IXTL said:

Sample

Why on earth would you put the large, heavy reaction missiles on the wing tips and the smaller lighter air-to-air missiles on the inner wings.....LOL

[chyll2]

^I agree

 

but from my observation, reaction missiles are usually used prior to engagement as an opening salvo.