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Game of Thrones Theory Discussion. Books. Show. Spoilers.

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Dang!!! Just dang, we've been waiting long enough for this, all of this. This may actually be a better and more satisfying episode then even the Battle of the Bastards.
Jon almost needs to marry Lyanna Mormont for that speach.

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Arya was amazing, took me a minute to realize who she was. Payback is a bitch, says Olenna Tyrell.

Going to be one hell of a War next season.

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If you ever started to question whether or not GoT is still the best show on TV, let this episode lay those doubts to rest.

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If you ever started to question whether or not GoT is still the best show on TV, let this episode lay those doubts to rest.

Quoted for truth!

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Funny how they ended that High Sparrow plot that been going on for what 2 seasons in the first 20 minutes of the show.

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Dang, awesome finale.

got this from youtube comment, "Tommen didnt have a very good Kings Landing..." LOL

Edited by dapro

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Dang, awesome finale.

got this from youtube comment, "Tommen didnt have a very good Kings Landing..." LOL

Nice!! :lol::D

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I'm blown away. Lyanna Mormont is just too bad ass to be contained!

I probably shouldnt have follwed this up with Ep.13 of Delta, but I couldn't help myself. Ep.13, while I give it a positive vote, did not outshine that season ender.

Goddam that was something.

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what did Lyanna Stark whisper'd to Ned? That scene pretty much confirmed a very old theory but what other withheld info can have an impact in the future?

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A perfect season finale to usher in the beginning of the end.

The women rule in this last ep.

Just a hunch,

but might Jamie end up adding "Queenslayer" to his resume? No theory, nothing to back it up; just a hunch.

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crap's going to hit the fan.

The North is united under Jon Snow but they have dire threats to deal with. The funny thing is I don't think Jon wanted kingship, but there he is, sort of thrust upon him like it did Robb Stark way back in Season 1.

It was a great moment seeing Tyrion get recognized by someone who truly appreciates his mind and counsel being named Hand of the Queen.

Cersei's madness destroyed the Faith Militant, High Sparrow, destroyed the future of House Tyrell. Yet that stupid move destroyed the Tyrell-Lannister alliance, led to her last child committing suicide. Wouldn't she have not realized that would be a danger for Tommen? Didn't she know Tommen truly loved Margaery? I had always believed in the books and TV show, Cersei didn't know how to use her power properly, settling for pettiness. She sits on the Iron Throne but has isolated House Lannister from all past allies.

High Garden is being run now by the sharp Queen of Thrones and not her buffoon son, Mace Tyrell. She wants vengeance.

Dorne is being run by people with a burning hatred of the Lannisters and do not hide that disposition.

Then comes in Lord Varys promising, "Fire and Blood." I cannot tell you how happy I was to hear that. Daenerys is on her way with an alliance set up with Asha and Theon Greyjoy, their ships and men. She's hauling with her her Unsullied, the Dothraki braving the sea, her trusted followers to include Hand of the Queen Tyrion Lannister, and of course, 3 frakking dragons. She will be landing likely in Dorne to the open arms of the Martells and Tyrells thanks to Varys setting everything up.

Meanwhile, I want to repeat now Queen Cersei has isolated the Iron Throne and House Lannister from every major power player in the Seven Kingdoms. The North remembers. She has made bitter enemies of the Tyrells. The Martells want nothing but Lannister blood to spill for old grudges since Elia Martell's rape and murder, the killing of her children. The fact that traditional, hated rivals the Tyrells and Martells allied together against the Iron Throne and Lannisters is an amazingly stupid feat. One can imagine Jaime Lannister's horror on finding the burning ruins and getting word of what's been going on. He goes away to settle military matters, and finds his son and king dead, the Tyrells enemies, and Cersei smugly sitting on the throne.

Jaime: "WTH is going on in this place? Madness!"

Oh... And Arya Stark is now going to personally work on her list. So much has happened and I can't wait to see what goes on when it resumes.

Edited by Warmaker

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Anyone have any last minute predictions for the season finale? I think we may see something completely unexpected, like LSH or Nymeria. We haven't gotten any real curveballs this season outside of Hodor's death, so I think we're due.

I'm blanking on what "LSH" is.

Wow. No real curveballs, but an excellent episode. I can't even hate they gave "The North Remembers" to Lyanna Mormont.

Heh. Lyanna Mormont is awesome. I love every scene she is in.

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This show is so crazy fast paced now.

-A surprising quick matter of fact end for Margery.

-Knew Tommen was going to jump as soon as i saw hime sitting in front of that huge window

-Tyrion becomes hand of the Queen. Not sure why. Not sure that he's earned it with Danarys yet unlike when he was the hand to Joffery which he did earn.

-Time continues to go crazy: Varys is in Dorne then back in Meeren by the end of the episode on a ship back to Westeros.

-Time continues to go crazy part 2: Arya is already back in Westeros and carried out an assassination plan.

-Finally R+L=J confirmed. Well half anyway, i don't think they confirmed the R part yet. Revelation lacks any sting though since everyone knew this for years already.

-I'm suprised anyone would willingly eat dinner at Walder Frey's place since the red wedding.



Lady Stoneheart.

Right.

I guess they are really not doing her. There doesn't seem to be a point to now that Frey is dead.

Edited by Sandman

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crap's going to hit the fan.

The North is united under Jon Snow but they have dire threats to deal with. The funny thing is I don't think Jon wanted kingship, but there he is, sort of thrust upon him like it did Robb Stark way back in Season 1.

It was a great moment seeing Tyrion get recognized by someone who truly appreciates his mind and counsel being named Hand of the Queen.

Cersei's madness destroyed the Faith Militant, High Sparrow, destroyed the future of House Tyrell. Yet that stupid move destroyed the Tyrell-Lannister alliance, led to her last child committing suicide. Wouldn't she have not realized that would be a danger for Tommen? Didn't she know Tommen truly loved Margaery? I had always believed in the books and TV show, Cersei didn't know how to use her power properly, settling for pettiness. She sits on the Iron Throne but has isolated House Lannister from all past allies.

High Garden is being run now by the sharp Queen of Thrones and not her buffoon son, Mace Tyrell. She wants vengeance.

Dorne is being run by people with a burning hatred of the Lannisters and do not hide that disposition.

Then comes in Lord Varys promising, "Fire and Blood." I cannot tell you how happy I was to hear that. Daenerys is on her way with an alliance set up with Asha and Theon Greyjoy, their ships and men. She's hauling with her her Unsullied, the Dothraki braving the sea, her trusted followers to include Hand of the Queen Tyrion Lannister, and of course, 3 frakking dragons. She will be landing likely in Dorne to the open arms of the Martells and Tyrells thanks to Varys setting everything up.

Meanwhile, I want to repeat now Queen Cersei has isolated the Iron Throne and House Lannister from every major power player in the Seven Kingdoms. The North remembers. She has made bitter enemies of the Tyrells. The Martells want nothing but Lannister blood to spill for old grudges since Elia Martell's rape and murder, the killing of her children. The fact that traditional, hated rivals the Tyrells and Martells allied together against the Iron Throne and Lannisters is an amazingly stupid feat. One can imagine Jaime Lannister's horror on finding the burning ruins and getting word of what's been going on. He goes away to settle military matters, and finds his son and king dead, the Tyrells enemies, and Cersei smugly sitting on the throne.

Jaime: "WTH is going on in this place? Madness!"

Oh... And Arya Stark is now going to personally work on her list. So much has happened and I can't wait to see what goes on when it resumes.

The problem with Cersei is that she's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. She's got some of the signature Lannister cunning, but not a lot, which makes for a very dangerous cocktail. Every apparent victory she gains just feeds her ego and overconfidence. It'll only sets her up for a longer fall, the higher she climbs.

Edited by GU-11

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The problem with Cersei is that she's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. She's got some of the signature Lannister cunning, but not a lot, which makes for a very dangerous cocktail. Every apparent victory she gains just feeds her ego and overconfidence. It'll only sets her up for a longer fall, the higher she climbs.

Jaime's return to King's Landing and the pure look of "What have you done?" on his face the entire time told everything.

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Jaime's return to King's Landing and the pure look of "What have you done?" on his face the entire time told everything.

Hence, my suspicion that he might have to end up as a Queenslayer.

Edited by GU-11

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I liked the Jon "revelation" but I didn't like that they didn't explain that Lyanna loved Rheagar. Some people will still think that Jon is a product of rape. Just a quick line by Ned saying Rheagar is dead and she has been avenged, and then Lyanna crying at his loss and saying she loved him. Something like that would've been nice. Otherwise great finale, only unexpected thing was Tohmen's suicide. Also, hope there is not trouble brewing with Sansa and Jon. That look Littfinger was giving her and how she looked back.....like the last thing he said to her at the Tree really did strike home. :(

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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what did Lyanna Stark whisper'd to Ned? That scene pretty much confirmed a very old theory but what other withheld info can have an impact in the future?

She says: "his name is [ Unintelligable]

"If Robert finds out he'll kill him...you know he will"

"You have to protect him"

"Promise me Ned, promise me"

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Also, I wonder if the reason why they didn't let you hear her say his name was due to another reveal that perhaps his real name is something like Aejon...more in line with Targaryon names. While the reveal wasn't a big surprise, and as I said above I would've preferred a quick explanation of R and L's true relationship, I absolutely LOVED the build up of music and the focus on the baby's face and then transition to Jon. It was beautiful.

As for my small criticism, maybe HBO is holding some things back to show in a new series that would cover Westeros leading up to and including Robert's rebellion? If not a full series then just a limited series. That would be awesome.

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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She says: "his name is [ Unintelligable]

"If Robert finds out he'll kill him...you know he will"

"You have to protect him"

"Promise me Ned, promise me"

When I checked Reddit last night before going to bed the "lip readers" we're mostly saying "Aemon."

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Looks like we were typing at the same time. In case you didn't see what I wrote.. Ever since I read the first book and went into the R + L=J theory camp I thought Jon's name sounded like it could be the last part of a Targ name like Aejon.

Chris

Edited by Dobber

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Also, I wonder if the reason why they didn't let you hear her say his name was due to another reveal that perhaps his real name is something like Aejon...more in line with Targaryon names. While the reveal wasn't a big surprise, and as I said above I would've preferred a quick explanation of R and L's true relationship, I absolutely LOVED the build up of music and the focus on the baby's face and then transition to Jon. It was beautiful.

As for my small criticism, maybe HBO is holding some things back to show in a new series that would cover Westeros leading up to and including Robert's rebellion? If not a full series then just a limited series. That would be awesome.

Chris

I would totally watch Dunk and Egg: The Series

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Looks like we were typing at the same time. In case you didn't see what I wrote.. Ever since I read the first book and went into the R + L=J theory camp I thought Jon's name sounded like it could be the last part of a Targ name like Aejon.

Chris

Rewatching that scene, it REALLY looks like she says his name is Aegon. Or perhaps Aegor. Definitely starts with "Aeg."

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I LOVE Lady Mormont!! She was the only noble there who had the balls to fight for the Starks, no qualms with her getting the "North remembers" bit.

Varys is a traveling man. Thank God we didn't have to spend six episodes with him traveling to Westeros, negotiating, and traveling back, like we did last season. Wonder if he knows what his little birds have turned into...

Arya went full-on badass. Great kill of a truly deserving ass. He broke Hospitality, so only fitting he dies at his own table.

As for Jaime, Queenslayer: now we see if what he said to Cersei earlier is true; that only those two, and their love, matter.

The Firey Trial was expected, but I love how they showed it. Margaery looking at the High Sparrow like he's killed them all was perfect.

Didn't expect Tommen to kill himself. Most decisive thing he's ever done.

And the chess pieces move, ever on...

Oh,yes. Have to admit a touch of arousal at seeing the Library of the Citadel. No shame.

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Just watched it (was hard keeping away from this thread). Cannot agree more with what you guys are saying. GoT is the best thing on TV (well HBO's app for me :) ) by a mile. Gripping stuff.

2 things surprised me: One was Thommen's suicide and the relative 'lack' of impact it had on Cersei. She's either gone completely mental and lost her capacity for love or she's compartmentalizing and turning her grief into pain for others.

The other was Jon actually being proclaimed 'King in the North' I didn't see that coming. I thought Littlefinger was going to put more obstacles in their way at this point.

My favorite bit was Daenerys making Tyrion her Hand. That was very moving stuff.

The Lannisters are in for a world of hurt. They're surrounded now by enemies (Dorne, Tyrrells, The North +Vale) and Daenery's army/navy is huge. And she has 3 dragons. To top it off, the Brotherhood is still around with an angry hound and Arya is running around with that mental checklist of hers.

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Also keep in mind that the Dragon's Fire that they used to blow up the sept was only a small portion of what had been planned by the mad king, If there is a massive invasion of King's Landing, I'd expect Cersei to throw the nuclear option before dying, and Jaime knows this story all too well, the idea of him closing the loop and being a Queenslayer/Kinslayer in addition to a Kingslayer doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

I'm very excited about Sam at the Citadel, for probably a half decade now I've been daydreaming about Sam Tarley becoming one of the most powerful people in Westeros through his nerd-dom and it looks like it may happen.

Unless they pull a rabbit out of their hat, I'll be looking to the books for the true tales of the Iron Islands, the real decision that lead to Shireen's death, and on and on. They cut a lot of corners to expedite the story for a compelling TV series, but I expect a lot more background information when the books finally come out.

P.S. So Frankenmountain,........ What do we think he was going to be doing with the nun of shame there? I don't need everything spelled out for me, but there was an almost inappropriate implication when Cersei left the room, and it didn't look like he was going to go to work Pulp Fiction style with a blow torch and a pair of pliers...... Might whatever that is, be the invitation for Cleganebowl, since the hound may be on a mission to avenge the Faith Militant, and Mountainstein is torturing one of the last survivors from King's Landing in a dungeon?

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Saw a fun snippet of visual analysis about the library in the scene with Sam. Those chandeliers look awfully familiar.

I don't even have HBO to watch this, or any other real source, but following the conspiracy theories and the plot summaries is entertaining all on its own. ^_^

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Excellent episode, only problem being the already mentioned time warp. But that is far preferable to the plodding pace the books have been going. It will be interesting to see how they handle some of this - most likely taking MANY MANY more pages to get to roughly the same place the show just did.

Yes it is the best show on TV, or course that can easily be construed as an insult. Despite a couple of logic problems this is one show I will miss when it finishes, last one I can say that about was Battlestar Galactica.

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Also keep in mind that the Dragon's Fire that they used to blow up the sept was only a small portion of what had been planned by the mad king, If there is a massive invasion of King's Landing, I'd expect Cersei to throw the nuclear option before dying, and Jaime knows this story all too well, the idea of him closing the loop and being a Queenslayer/Kinslayer in addition to a Kingslayer doesn't seem too far fetched to me.

The expression on Jaime's face was memorable when he saw Cersei was memorable. Here is the person he loves most in the world who has performed the most evil of all actions he could imagine. The very thing that he killed his king for and which gained him universal contempt.

I could see him doing a double suicide with her when things go South.

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Forgot to mention: anyone else absolutely love seeing the Stark sigil back on the model of Winterfell in the opening?

Edited by Sildani

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Forgot to mention: anyone else absolutely love seeing the Stark sigil back on the model of Winterfell in the opening?

Yep.

I was specifically looking to make sure that it was there too.

-b.

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The other was Jon actually being proclaimed 'King in the North' I didn't see that coming. I thought Littlefinger was going to put more obstacles in their way at this point.

What was that glance between Sansa and Littlefinger?

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What was that glance between Sansa and Littlefinger?

Spoiler to save wall of text and space.

The discussion the two had earlier by the weirwood tree where Littlefinger made his advances again on Sansa but was rebuffed. 'Ol boy did not get want he wanted and you can tell he was not too pleased to come all the way to the north and be rebuffed like that.

Of all the people in Winterfell's hall, Sansa is the one person that understands Littlefinger, how clever he is, how forward thinking he is, how much he knows, and how well he "plays the game." IMO, he's the most dangerous, high profile, yet somewhat low key power player in Westeros. When Petyr Baelish leaves the North, rest assured he's going to have something he wants. I think he wants Sansa more than anything, as much as he plays "the game." But if he's not going to have her, well, he may cause some crap to still come to his benefit. This dude is dangerous.

====

As for Jaime, I believe he will become Queenslayer as well. The prophecy was "Cersei will outlast her children and die by the hands of 'the valonqar'." Valonqar is high valyrian for little brother. The problem for Cersei was she is the oldest of Tywin's 3 children so Jaime though her twin, is a younger brother.

Cersei is going into a short reign of terror that will be destructive to the realm and King's Landing. Cersei has isolated the Iron Throne and House Lannister from every major power in Westeros. She turned once-ally House Tyrell into enemies. The very sharp minded Queen of Thorns has agreed to an alliance with Dorne, which is a power that historically have been enemies with House Tyrell and The Reach. They allied themselves and will greet with open arms Daenerys Targaryen, they will contribute their military power to hers. The Tyrells and Martells want nothing more than vengeance and Lannister blood. The North has completely spun out of control of the Iron Throne. They did nothing when Roose Bolton died. They did nothing when the Vale rode North. They're going to find out that the North once again is united under a new King of the North. They're going to find out Walder Frey is dead. Amidst this strategic disaster that the Iron Throne will discover more of, Cersei will go into mad abuse of power. She will lose but she will lose in a spectacular fashion.

The sad part is Jaime like I said, will be the one to kill her out of necessity. She will go on a path of scorched earth to devastate the realm and King's Landing before her reign ends. That is the exact scenario King Aerys Targaryen was under when Jaime killed him. He was about to destroy King's Landing. He slew King Aerys to save King's Landing and would have to live with the consequences. Throughout the books and bits in the TV show, that title of King Slayer bothered him. He knows it stains his personal honor, important for a man who was among the King's Guard under King Aerys, serving alongside some truly outstanding knights like Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Barristan Selmy. Yet he had forsaken his honor to save King's Landing. He will have to forsake his love for Cersei to end whatever spiral into madness she's going to go into.

The sad part is even if he slays Queen Cersei, he is wholly screwed. He had just killed the one woman he loved. All his children are dead. The last senior, respected leaders of the Lannisters are dead: Tywin, Kevan Lannister are gone. He's going to find out Tyrion is with Daenerys Targaryen (oh the twist on that, a Lannister giving sound counsel to a Targaryen considering Tywin's betrayal of Aerys). The North would be very iffy about him staying alive. But the big alliance down south? OH HELL NO. The Tyrells and Martells want Lannister blood (Tyrion being Hand of Daenerys being the exception). Daenerys will want the head of the man that slew her father.

If things go down like I think they will with Daenerys ascending to the Iron Throne, the only hope Jaime has after killing Cersei is Brienne and Tyrion desperately trying to get his life spared. But even after that, I don't think Jaime can live with himself if he has to do what he must with Cersei.

I'm going to miss Margaery.

Edited by Warmaker

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