Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, in theaters Dec. 16, 2016

[jenius]

Yes, it's hardly creative gold, but the Star Wars fans who know who Revan is are a teeny tiny fraction of Star Wars fans so it seems silly to let that negate the idea. That said, the same device has been used ad infinitum in other shows so even folks who have no idea who Revan is or that Star Wars has gone there still won't think "Holy crap, that's new!" That said, George Lucas made a point of NOT doing anything original with Star Wars. I mean, c'mon, that's why it works so brilliantly, it's lifted bits from stories that worked sewed together without making them less good (until he got to the prequels and went full Kung Pow on us). 

[sh9000]

 

[Hikuro]

This movie deserves an oscar for the visuals I think.

[Big s]

Effects were very big this past year and Rogue One has some controversy over how they did cg people, but I can't argue over how great the rest of the film looked.

[sh9000]

 

[Mommar]

A bit irritating for we Figuarts fans...

http://news.toyark.com/2017/02/24/japanese-rogue-one-blu-ray-sh-figuarts-death-trooper-244684

[sh9000]

 

[kajnrig]

 

[sh9000]

April 4.

[sh9000]

38 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

 

That was pretty good.

[Dobber]

"What up noobs." Lol

Chris

[jvmacross]

http://ew.com/movies/2017/03/20/rogue-one-alternate-ending-revealed/

[peter]

Vader's Walk of Death so awesome......

[peter]

Quote

Credit: Angry Staff Officer

 

No More Task Force Rogue Ones: A Tactical Analysis of the Raid on Scarif

 

 

Disclaimer: this should not be read as not wanting more Rogue One-type movies; we need more Star Wars films like this.

Also: SPOILERS.

There’s a common phrase that you’re apt to hear in discussions on Army readiness: “No more Task Force Smiths.” For reference, Task Force Smith

was a rapidly cobbled together unit of infantry and artillery that was shipped to Korea in the opening phase of the Korean War. Intended to show the North

Koreans that America wasn’t messing around, TF Smith instead demonstrated that the U.S. Army had completely misread the resolve of the North Koreans.

TF Smith was literally driven over, suffering over 50% losses against the enemy armor. It was a lesson in humility – one that the U.S. Army is still struggling with to this day:

how could the Army that defeated Nazi Germany and the Empire of Japan in 1945 struggle against a rag-tag bunch of communists five years later?

Simple: the Army had let preparedness slip and thought that the mere presence of U.S. Soldiers would cause the North Koreans to not attack;

and the North Koreans were not a rag-tag force, but instead battle-hardened, well-equipped troops who were used to winning. It was a

bloody lesson.

 

 

So what does this have to do with Star Wars?

The Rebel Alliance needs to learn the same lesson that the U.S. Army was handed in 1950, that good troops cannot overcome poor planning and

even worse resourcing. In short, no more Task Force Rogue Ones.

 

In Rogue One, we see a prime example of a basic U.S. Army tactical action: a raid. A raid is defined in ADRP 1-02 Operational Terms and Military Symbols as,

“An operation to temporarily seize an area in order to secure information, confuse an adversary, capture personnel or equipment, or to destroy a capability culminating with a planned withdrawal.”

The mission is simple: conduct a tactical raid on the Imperial base of Scarif to deceive the enemy as to the real point of attack. In this

case, the main offensive action is a special operations penetration into the Imperial record holdings on Scarif to seize and extract the data

files of the Death Star. The raid is set off balance at the outset by the Rebel Alliance’s determination not to support operations

against Scarif because they cannot verify intelligence reports that the Death Star plans are located on Scarif and that they might hold a secret

to the battle station’s weakness. This leaves the raiding party without conventional support, such as tactical lift and close air support.

However, the commander of a special operations detachment, Captain Cassian Andor, volunteers his detachment to Jyn Erso for the mission.

This force is composed of light infantry and numbers approximately 20-30 troopers. Armed with mainly light weaponry, they are capable of swift

movement, infiltration, and demolitions. However, with no crew-served weapons and very few anti-armor guided munitions, they are not equipped

for sustained conventional battle. Cassian directs his men to take anything “that isn’t tied down” to augment their meager supplies.

Critical to their operation are demolitions charges, which they are able to acquire.

 

Jyn and Cassian commandeer a captured Imperial shuttle and initiate movement to the line of departure. While in transit, Jyn and Cassian develop their tentative plan: the two of

them accompanied by a strategic analysis droid named K-2SO will infiltrate the records facility and attempt to steal the plans to send

to the Rebel Alliance. Taking a droid that essentially fulfils staff officer functions might seem strange, but they went to war with the droid they had, not the droid they wanted. The special operations

detachment will fan out in small teams around Scarif and set demolitions charges at multiple sites to confuse the enemy as to the whereabouts of

the real attack. However, the leaders of the raid fail to plan any further past this point. Jyn gives the force a quick mission brief that lays out the course of action as, essentially, they will

attack until they meet the next obstacle, and then adapt and overcome it. This is the next failing of the task force – they fail to complete a

comprehensive mission brief that includes an objective rally point, actions on contact, evacuation of casualties, priority of reports,

accountability of personnel, a map reconnaissance, rehearsals, actions on the objective, and task organization of the detachment into assault,

support, and security elements. This failure to plan places the task force  – Task Force Rogue One – at a severe disadvantage as they are

heavily outnumbered against a combined arms garrison force. Once the shuttle lands on Scarif at the de facto objective rally point

(ORP), the infiltration team seizes Imperial officer uniforms and enter the data archives center using deception. The special operations teams

exfiltrate the shuttle, leaving a small security detachment for the ORP and shuttle. No leader’s reconnaissance is conducted and there are no

fallback positions identified for the teams. As each team fans out to their objectives, movement is tactical and each team is prepared for

enemy contact. The teams keep local security and communications with the infiltration team. Once at each objective, the teams isolate the sites

by infiltration and deception, neutralizing enemy guards at each site without alerting the entire garrison. Demolitions charges are placed at

installations all around the Imperial facility, awaiting the order to detonate. However, although each team falls back to a covered position,

they do not establish support by fire positions or identify exfiltration routes back by to the ORP.

 

Once inside the archives facility, Cassian gives the order to detonate the charges, making the raid kinetic. Rather than detonate the charges and fall back, each team

remains in place to engage the garrison troops in order to make the raid seem larger than it is. However, due to their lack of casualty

producing weapons and an exfiltration plan, it turns into a suicide mission. Imperial Stormtroopers mass their firepower on the special

operations teams, pinning each one in place. Rebel firepower is diminished further when Rebel troops tend to their wounded rather than

provide accurate cover fire. Having gained local fire superiority, the Imperials deploy heavy armor onto the Rebel flanks, cutting off lines of

escape into the more covered jungle areas. The Rebel light fighters are quickly broken up into smaller, more vulnerable groups that attempt to

head away from the armor, which gives the AT-ACT gunners direct fire capabilities against them. The Imperial armor herds the Rebels towards

the beaches on the islands that make up Scarif’s topography. In the open, on poor footing, the Rebels are easy targets for the armor and

following Stormtroopers.

 

Disaster is momentarily avoided by close air support that comes from the few Rebel fighters that manage to enter the planet’s shield defense system

before it is closed. The Rebel spacecraft quickly destroy the Imperial armor and Rebel transports land additional reinforcements. However, with

no overall command and control of the operation, the task force is again overwhelmed, segmented, and destroyed in detail by Imperial Storm

and Death Troopers. Indeed, with no overall command and control of the various forces, the raid was doomed to total failure from the outset.

Luckily, the infiltration force manages to obtain the data and transmit it to the Rebel fleet, just before the Imperial base on Scarif is

destroyed by the Death Star.Operationally, the raid is a success since the end state was achieved, i.e., acquiring

the Death Star plans. However, the Rebels sacrificed the entire task force – and a significant portion of their fleet – in exchange for a

small shot at obtaining the Death Star plans.

 

Tactically, the raid was a failure. Had the task force adhered to the U.S. Army’s doctrinal outlines for conducting a raid, they would have been able to at least

harbor some of their badly-needed forces for the future. As it was, Task Force Rogue One met only five out of the ten performance measures that

the U.S. Army uses to evaluate a successful raid. Rebel Intelligence bears no small part of the blame for the destruction of Task Force Rogue One for failing to

properly vet their sources. Had Jyn been an accepted member of the intelligence community, Mon Mothma would have been able to rally the

Rebel Alliance around the mission and give it the support that it needed. Hung out to dry, Task Force Rogue One stands as an example of

the limits of operating by group consensus as a military organization and a warning against poor planning measures.

 

No more Task Force Rogue Ones.

Note sure if this was posted, but interesting read.

[jvmacross]

17 minutes ago, peter said:

Note sure if this was posted, but interesting read.

And yet....the Rebel Alliance, and the "Resistance", still managed to destroy every single death star!  Maybe the "Imperials/First Order"  are the ones that need to ditch the military standard operations manuals!  

[kajnrig]

28 minutes ago, jvmacross said:

And yet....the Rebel Alliance, and the "Resistance", still managed to destroy every single death star!  Maybe the "Imperials/First Order"  are the ones that need to ditch the military standard operations manuals!  

Shots fired, shots fired!  

[Dynaman]

Interesting but the basic assumption is incorrect.  Rogue One was not a quickly put together and badly resourced operation - it was a bunch of hotheads deciding to do something on the spur of the moment.  Almost like those old movies where the gang decides to put on a show but instead decides to take on the Empire.  It would have worked MUCH better if the Rebel Alliance had not shown up too, they only closed the shield gate thingy when the rebel fleet showed up.  Then again they never did explain all that well how far the transmitter could transmit if the gate was down.

 

[Chronocidal]

It's still an interesting analysis, but if anything, I think the fact that the Rebels were able to achieve that much on such a shoddy plan only points to the fact that the Imperials were the ones who needed a wake-up call.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure no one who volunteered really held any delusions that they would make it out alive.  It was a suicide mission from the start.

Off the subject a bit, but seriously, whatever else is said about this movie, there is precisely one concept that I hope this movie drilled home in every person who enjoys anything about Star Wars:

YES, YOU CAN DEFEAT WALKERS WITHOUT TOW CABLES!!!

I flat out cheered when the X-wings nailed a few of them.  As amazing as the Rogue Squadron games were, I wanted to slam my head against the wall every time they forced you into a snowspeeder to trip up the walkers, instead of just outright reducing them to molten slag with bombs or torpedoes.  They were always the most annoying missions too...

[Lorindor]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

YES, YOU CAN DEFEAT WALKERS WITHOUT TOW CABLES!!!

I flat out cheered when the X-wings nailed a few of them.  As amazing as the Rogue Squadron games were, I wanted to slam my head against the wall every time they forced you into a snowspeeder to trip up the walkers, instead of just outright reducing them to molten slag with bombs or torpedoes.  They were always the most annoying missions too...

I remember that in the first mission of the Shadow of the Empire game, you could destroy the AT-ATs if you fired like 100 shots from the right angle (I think it was in the neck). Of course I tried to do that several times. 

But the walkers in Rogue One weren't AT-ATs, so one COULD make a case that the models aren't equally armored... But I'm with you on this.

[Hikuro]

It was great to watch it again but in the comfort of my own home. Even better was watching it with my sphero BB-8  I hope sphero keeps making these updates as the movies continue to be released.

[Dynaman]

You whippersnappers, on my old Atari 2600 you could take out an AT-AT with the blasters of a snowspeeder!

Warning - link is for a youtube video of the game with all the glorious sounds an Atari 2600 could produce, and some goon talking strategy...

 

 

[sh9000]

 

[myk]

7 hours ago, Hikuro said:

It was great to watch it again but in the comfort of my own home. Even better was watching it with my sphero BB-8  I hope sphero keeps making these updates as the movies continue to be released.

What update did they make to your BB unit?

[Dobber]

8 hours ago, Dynaman said:

You whippersnappers, on my old Atari 2600 you could take out an AT-AT with the blasters of a snowspeeder!

Warning - link is for a youtube video of the game with all the glorious sounds an Atari 2600 could produce, and some goon talking strategy...

 

 

Ahh, the good old days. I had that game. I thought I was misremembering the flashing square "bomb hatch" till they brought it up.

[Kelsain]

It reminded me of the difference between "Walker Scale" and "Starfighter Scale" from the West End SWPRG. Of course the whole freaking movie felt like a good West End campaign. That's part of why I enjoyed it so much.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Kelsain

[Dynaman]

5 hours ago, Kelsain said:

It reminded me of the difference between "Walker Scale" and "Starfighter Scale" from the West End SWPRG. Of course the whole freaking movie felt like a good West End campaign. That's part of why I enjoyed it so much.

Oh uh, I still have my old WEG Star Wars RPG, the Starfighters tactical game, and perhaps the source book (may have lost that one) and now you went and put a campaign idea in my head.

[sh9000]

 

[Big s]

As much as I liked the movie, that was dead on.

[Roy Focker]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:18 AM, Kelsain said:

Of course the whole freaking movie felt like a good West End campaign. That's part of why I enjoyed it so much.

Actually to me it felt like a bad campaign.

Good roleplaying experiences involve having fun.  You don't have fun with everyone trying to make the most gritty and humorless character.  The fun happens when players don't create clones and act off each other.  If every player is true to their character's gritty and humorless personality the game becomes boring.  The other way the fun happens is when players make a major mistake that technically should end the game early but everyone decides to continue and laugh as they make a disaster even worst.

Characters with personalities or a players willing to use humor to entertain each other creates more experiences that you remember.   Rogue One was pretty much a Roleplaying adventure played by the dullest group of players.   Just because it was a war doesn't mean it needed to lack personality.   Hollywood made a  ton of gritty war movies involving characters death and still had interesting characters with personalities.

[Sildani]

R1, in two and half hours, made me care more about six characters than over 10 hours of prequels did. It's a hell of a movie and a worthy inclusion into Star Wars canon. 

[Dynaman]

8 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Actually to me it felt like a bad campaign.

Good roleplaying experiences involve having fun.  You don't have fun with everyone trying to make the most gritty and humorless character. 

K2, the Blind Guy and his sidekick were full of humor.  More than that would have been JarJar.

[derex3592]

K2 was the best character in the movie. I couldn't have cared less about the others. Besides watching the Donnie Yen fight scenes, that character was boring, i still can't tell you his or his buddies name.  Jyn was ok, Casian made me want to take a nap, and the rest, well, yeh, whatever. The Krennick character I did enjoy however. I still really like the movie as a whole though, don't wanna sound to negative. 

[kajnrig]

 

[Thom]

^^Feelz yo! What an incredible woman!

[TangledThorns]

Always my first crush.