Netflix Marvel Universe

[Mog]

So, I barrelled through Iron Fist Season 2 last weekend (10 episodes).

Starts off a little slow at the beginning, but DEFINITELY MUCH better than the first season.

We still have to deal with the Meachum siblings, but they toned down the corporate scheming a bunch.  After some initial misgivings, the Meachum sibs turned out be much more consistent and interesting characters the second time around.

For those of you who have watched Season 2:

Spoiler

 

Although I grew up loving the Power Man/Iron Fist combo, I'm cool with the decision to run with Colleen Wing as the new Iron Fist.  It makes sense from a storyline perspective.  There is some comic book precedent for a female Iron Fist (from the many Iron Fists of the past).  It'll be a nice change-up to see her (hopefully) interact with the other Netflix MCU characters.  And honestly, Jessica Henwick was probably the brightest part of Iron Fist Season 1. 

For meta-reasons too, it's cool to see more Asian representation in the MCU. 

And it's not like they killed off Danny or anything.  At the end there, Danny somehow regained his powers, and him and Ward having a buddy/bro team-up is surprisingly a fun combo.

 

Other random thoughts:

• Spoiler

   

  • (Typhoid) Mary Walker seemed like a completely random character plopped into the story.  But she actually turned out to be an awesome addition to the show.
  • Davos was definitely a solid villain for this season (Seriously, the good to great parts of all the Marvel Netflix series have all had great villains/antagonists).
  • Either mix in Daughters of the Dragon into Season 3 or just give them their own series already.
  • I really wanna see Colleen go no-BS-mode again and call out Luke Cage if he breaks bad.
  • Orson Randell, huh?  Would love for them to delve more into the Iron Fist legacy characters next season.
  • Thank the Jesus for those K'un Lun flashbacks!
  • Now that Colleen's an Iron Fist, can we please change up the opening credit sequence?  It's easily the most meh opening of all the shows.

   

   

[Mog]

Couldn't let Matt Murdock get all the comic book suit fun.

Let the beatdowns ensue!

Oct.19th

So, Born Again adaptation?  Typhoid Mary making an obvious appearance?  Bullseye? 

Considering how Cage and Fist both ended their last seasons, I'm curious if DD will surprise us with its Season 3 ending.

[eXis10z]

On 9/12/2018 at 4:46 PM, Mog said:

So, I barrelled through Iron Fist Season 2 last weekend (10 episodes).

Starts off a little slow at the beginning, but DEFINITELY MUCH better than the first season.

We still have to deal with the Meachum siblings, but they toned down the corporate scheming a bunch.  After some initial misgivings, the Meachum sibs turned out be much more consistent and interesting characters the second time around.

For those of you who have watched Season 2:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Although I grew up loving the Power Man/Iron Fist combo, I'm cool with the decision to run with Colleen Wing as the new Iron Fist.  It makes sense from a storyline perspective.  There is some comic book precedent for a female Iron Fist (from the many Iron Fists of the past).  It'll be a nice change-up to see her (hopefully) interact with the other Netflix MCU characters.  And honestly, Jessica Henwick was probably the brightest part of Iron Fist Season 1. 

For meta-reasons too, it's cool to see more Asian representation in the MCU. 

And it's not like they killed off Danny or anything.  At the end there, Danny somehow regained his powers, and him and Ward having a buddy/bro team-up is surprisingly a fun combo.

 

Other random thoughts:

•   Reveal hidden contents

   

  • (Typhoid) Mary Walker seemed like a completely random character plopped into the story.  But she actually turned out to be an awesome addition to the show.
  • Davos was definitely a solid villain for this season (Seriously, the good to great parts of all the Marvel Netflix series have all had great villains/antagonists).
  • Either mix in Daughters of the Dragon into Season 3 or just give them their own series already.
  • I really wanna see Colleen go no-BS-mode again and call out Luke Cage if he breaks bad.
  • Orson Randell, huh?  Would love for them to delve more into the Iron Fist legacy characters next season.
  • Thank the Jesus for those K'un Lun flashbacks!
  • Now that Colleen's an Iron Fist, can we please change up the opening credit sequence?  It's easily the most meh opening of all the shows.

   

   

Ok to watch s2 without catching s1? Read and heard s1 was pretty bad. Perhaps I can just wiki it to get the gist.

[no3Ljm]

9 minutes ago, eXis10z said:

Ok to watch s2 without catching s1? Read and heard s1 was pretty bad. Perhaps I can just wiki it to get the gist.

S1 of Daredevil was pretty bad? I'm not sure the whole season but I can tell you that the first half of it is so good.  
 

[eXis10z]

27 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

S1 of Daredevil was pretty bad? I'm not sure the whole season but I can tell you that the first half of it is so good.  
 

Oh no I meant Iron Fist. DD was good, the best of all the netflix marvel series imho.

[no3Ljm]

3 minutes ago, eXis10z said:

Oh no I meant Iron Fist. DD was good, the best of all the netflix marvel series imho.

Shoot. I misread it. Thought you guys were talking about DD after that teaser video. My bad. Hahaha!

 

[Mog]

1 hour ago, eXis10z said:

Ok to watch s2 without catching s1? Read and heard s1 was pretty bad. Perhaps I can just wiki it to get the gist.

Yeah, pretty much.

Season 1 had a lot of Hand nonsense, corporate boardroom shenanigans, and too much chi talk.

In Season 2, Episode 1, they do a quick summary of the key events from Season 1 and Defenders that catches you up before starting into Season 2 proper.

The main things you may NOT get from the summary are that:

• Colleen Wing used to be a Hand disciple, but changed sides.
• Ward started off hating Danny, while Joy seemed more open to him.  But by the end of Season 1, they both switched (Ward being open to Danny and Joy plotting revenge against Danny).
• Misty Knight met Danny and Colleen during Defenders.  Misty lost her arm, protecting Colleen during Defenders.  Danny's company gave Misty a new arm during Luke Cage Season 2.

Honestly, I maybe only watched the first and last episode of Season 1 in their entirety and just skimmed a few other eps.

You're probably better off just going straight into Season 2.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Mog

[eXis10z]

22 minutes ago, Mog said:

Yeah, pretty much.

Season 1 had a lot of Hand nonsense, corporate boardroom shenanigans, and too much chi talk.

In Season 2, Episode 1, they do a quick summary of the key events from Season 1 and Defenders that catches you up before starting into Season 2 proper.

The main things you may NOT get from the summary are that:

• Colleen Wing used to be a Hand disciple, but changed sides.
• Ward started off hating Danny, while Joy seemed more open to him.  But by the end of Season 1, they both switched (Ward being open to Danny and Joy plotting revenge against Danny).
• Misty Knight met Danny and Colleen during Defenders.  Misty lost her arm, protecting Colleen during Defenders.  Danny's company gave Misty a new arm during Luke Cage Season 2.

Honestly, I maybe only watched the first and last episode of Season 1 in their entirety and just skimmed a few other eps.

You're probably better off just going straight into Season 2.

Have no idea who ward and joy are but I'll probably skip s1 then. Have hardly enough time to catch the nicer shows much less waste 10hrs on a lousy one. 

[no3Ljm]

 

[no3Ljm]

 

[sh9000]

[Mog]

I'm definitely getting shades of the Born Again storyline from the most recent trailer.

Hope they can pull it off well.

[azrael]

Netflix Knocks Out ‘Marvel’s Iron Fist’, No Season 3 For Martial Arts Series

Terrible 1st season. Make-up season 2 not enough to save it. Disney could pick it up and move it to their streaming service.

[Mog]

I wonder if they can still re-configure the shows to become Daughters of the Dragon and Heroes for Hire?

As I mentioned in some of the spoiler posts above, I was intrigued enough to see how they'd move forward with Fist's Season 3.

Bummer.

[Tking22]

I'd wager Colleen and Misty will get a Daughter's of the Dragon series, and ol' Danny will be folded into new seasons of Luke Cage. I could even see them changing the title to Heroes for Hire, just featuring both stars. Bummer IMO, Iron Fist season 2 was pretty fantastic, and a HUGE step up from season 1, I enjoyed season 2 more then season 2 of Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, or the entirety of Defenders. Oh well, can't wait to see the Man Without Fear take on Bullseye this Friday! Oh, and the return of Fisk...

[sh9000]

 

[Big s]

I was actually looking forward to the next iron fist season after the way season2 ended. Maybe it’s just a gimmick since he’s no longer the iron fist and they’re just going for higher ratings using the bad news trigger.

[azrael]

5 hours ago, Big s said:

I was actually looking forward to the next iron fist season after the way season2 ended. Maybe it’s just a gimmick since he’s no longer the iron fist and they’re just going for higher ratings using the bad news trigger.

There is some speculation that Disney may revive the show on their own streaming service. Or, the characters get folded into another show (Combine Luke Cage and make Heroes for Hire).

[azrael]

Netflix Pulls The Plug On ‘Luke Cage’, No Season 3 For Marvel’s Harlem Hero

Heroes for Hire? Daughters of the Dragon? I think Jessica Jones is next on the chopping block.

[Big s]

I’m just clinging to a small bit of hope that he gets a show with a different name cause now he’s no longer ironfist. Now he’s glowing pistols guy. Or maybe since luke is done as well, maybe it’s a weird way of saying heroes for hire will be a thing. I got really into the story for Luke Cage season 2. Both shows left off in very interesting ways.

[technoblue]

I liked Iron Fist and Luke Cage. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say this has more to do with the Netflix/Disney contract coming to an end. If the shows continue in some way on the Disney streaming channel, then I wonder if the writers/producers will have as much creative freedom to do what they want with the characters or if they will be asked to reign it in?

I agree that the creativity offered some very interesting moments in Netflix land, but it took a while to get to that payoff too.

[TheLoneWolf]

I can't say I'm surprised the two were cancelled. Iron Fist's disastrous first season left it with bad reputation. And I don't remember seeing any major publicity or accolades for Luke Cage season 2 (it's almost like it snuck out), which doesn't bode well for ratings. After reading that Netflix's Marvel shows are expensive to produce, the writing was on the wall. Since money is such a large factor, I can see Netflix combining the two shows together, ala the comic book, to save money. And if Jessica Jones' third season isn't a ratings hit, then I can see her also being rolled into that show, just like the comic book.

6 hours ago, technoblue said:

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say this has more to do with the Netflix/Disney contract coming to an end. If the shows continue in some way on the Disney streaming channel, then I wonder if the writers/producers will have as much creative freedom to do what they want with the characters or if they will be asked to reign it in?

While Netflix won't be carrying any more movies and shows exclusively owned by Disney, I believe that Netflix's Marvel shows are are different case. I believe that these shows are jointly owned by Netflix and Marvel/Disney, so Marvel/Disney can't take them away from Netflix without Netflix's approval or for a breach of contract. If Netflix sits on the characters for X number of years, then there's probably a provision in the contract that would return the characters to Disney (eg: Ben Affleck's Daredevil).

[badboy00z]

Every bit of DD season 3 has been brilliant from what I have seen so far. 

[TheLoneWolf]

It looks like Iron Fist and Luke Cage may have been cancelled due to financial belt-tightening, as this article reports that Netflix is trying to raise a serious amount of money in order to keep its original content afloat. If this is indeed the case, then Netflix's future big-budget shows, not just Marvel's, are going to have high expectations and small margins for errors.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/22/netflix-to-raise-2-billion-in-debt-to-fund-more-original-content/

[azrael]

3 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

It looks like Iron Fist and Luke Cage may have been cancelled due to financial belt-tightening, as this article reports that Netflix is trying to raise a serious amount of money in order to keep its original content afloat. If this is indeed the case, then Netflix's future big-budget shows, not just Marvel's, are going to have high expectations and small margins for errors.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/22/netflix-to-raise-2-billion-in-debt-to-fund-more-original-content/

Sounds like they finally realized they needed to grow up. Makes one wonder how long they thought they could get away with just throwing money at it. Did they think they could maintain their share when they only showed studios that they don't need broadcast channels to deliver their content. Netflix showed studios they could just make content and literally drop it right into the viewers laps without a middle man. 

[Mog]

^^Bottom line:  content is ultimately gonna become king (if it hasn't already). 

If Netflix doesn't have the shows, programs, or movies I want to watch, I'll stop watching it (or stop utilizing a friend's/relative's account ).

CBS' streaming service only has Star Trek Discovery.

Youtube's only noteworthy series so far (for me) has been Cobra Kai.

And with that upcoming Clone Wars bookend story and possibly these Marvel-Netflix series moving to Disney's streaming service, I may need to consider nabbing it too.

So, I kinda, sorta understand the moves from a business standpoint.

But from a creative standpoint. . . . . . this really SUCKS!

Both Season 2's for Luke Cage and Iron Fist were MASSIVE improvements over their respective first seasons.  They both ended their season 2's in such a way that you WANTED to see how they'd follow it up with their next seasons. 

For those that haven't watched 'em yet, imagine if Ron Moore's BSG was cancelled right after that Season 2 time-skip.  You'd see the Cylons jumping to New Caprica, the Bucket and the Beast totally unprepared for it, and the Admiral making the painful decision to jump away.  You'd see so many potential story angles coming out of this situation. . . and then boom!  Series cancelled. 

That's how these announcements, cancelling Cage and Fist, feel like.

Spoiler

As much as I'd like them to pivot to Heroes for Hire, I just don't know how they'd do that angle justice and still adequately develop the "Luke Cage Corleone" and "Danny & Ward Learn About Past Iron Fists World Tour" stories we were left with at the end of their Season 2's.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by Mog

[Mog]

Regarding Daredevil Season 3, I went on a tear and finished it last Friday night/Saturday morning.

Yeah. . . they knocked this one out of the park.

As someone steeped in Daredevil's mythology and a kid who read the Born Again comics when they first came out, this past season just checked a ton of boxes for me.  There are elements from other Daredevil stories too, and they were all beautifully weaved together.

Yes, you can find some story threads that may feel like tropes to some folks.  And there are some filming/storytelling techniques that may rub some people the wrong way.  But they absolutely nailed every single character, making you care about their backstories and respective situations.  Both the old characters and the new ones are very well developed.

There are so many things I'd like to comment on, but there's one thing I have to make note of:  After being in God-mode during Defenders, I absolutely LOVE that Matt's back to having knock-down, dragged-out fights, taking damage and trying to give it back tenfold.

If this is how the Marvel-Netflix pocket of the MCU ends, they ended it on a high note.

 

[Big s]

I’m at episode 7 for the new daredevil and loving it. I don’t want to hear tomorrow that it’s also canceled.

[zard]

DD S3 was a much better than S2.  Enjoyed the multiple references to the source material.

Actually happy Iron Fist got canned. Finn Jones was a terrible actor pretending to be a martial arts master. His fake fu was pathetic. Luke Cage S1 wasn't bad never watched S2. Jessica Jones was too long and too many terrible plot holes in S1. Never enjoyed her character and excessive feminist righteous indignation.

[azrael]

'Daredevil' Canceled at Netflix as Marvel Roster Shrinks to Two

Marvel’s

Daredevil will not return for a fourth season on Netflix," Netflix said Thursday in a statement. "We are tremendously proud of the show’s last and final season and although it’s painful for the fans, we feel it best to close this chapter on a high note. We’re thankful to our partners at Marvel, showrunner Erik Oleson, the show’s writers, stellar crew and incredible cast including Charlie Cox as Daredevil himself, and we’re grateful to the fans who have supported the show over the years. While the series on Netflix has ended, the three existing seasons will remain on the service for years to come, while the Daredevil character will live on in future projects for Marvel.

This means Jessica Jones S3 and The Punisher S2 are next and might as well be DOA. The chances their shows will be renewed after Netflix releases their upcoming seasons is pretty much zero at this point.

[Roy Focker]

Wow.

DD was pretty good all 3 seasons.  I'm currently watching them out of orders and was looking forward to the 4th.  Was also planning to watch some of those other shows but what's the point now if they're all cancelled? 

[TheLoneWolf]

I'm in shock. All of Daredevil's seasons had excellent reviews and I refuse to believe that it fell victim to a lack of viewership. Maybe Disney's exponentially increased show's licensing fees just to bring the show back under their roof.  

[Mog]

This sucks.

I suspect Season 2 of Punisher will be solid (with Castle and Russo gunnin' after each other).  But part of Season 1's charm was the banter between Micro and Castle, and I can only think of seriously messed up ways to bring Micro back into the fold (which I'd rather they not do).

Not sure I'm feeling the need for another season of Jessica.  Sure, we got the Hellcat angle to develop.  But I read the synopses for Season 2 and never found any motivation to finish up that season.

Honestly, I don't think either of them can ever top this past season of DD.

So with the Netflix series closing shop and Agents of SHIELD on hiatus until after Avengers IV, is there really any excuse why these heroes (or their villains) can't show up on the big screen now?!

[azrael]

1 hour ago, TheLoneWolf said:

I'm in shock. All of Daredevil's seasons had excellent reviews and I refuse to believe that it fell victim to a lack of viewership. Maybe Disney's exponentially increased show's licensing fees just to bring the show back under their roof.  

It did have lower viewership with respect to the previous seasons but I don't think viewership stats killed it. I think show costs, Disney starting their streaming service and creative differences have strained the Marvel-Netflix relationship. It sounds like Netflix wanted shorter season runs and more restraint on the purse. But it sounds like the showrunners of these Marvel shows and Marvel themselves were not gonna deal. Netflix promised them 12-13 episode seasons but now they wanted to renegotiate them to 10-episode seasons. From what I've read, actor and crew contracts for these streaming shows are not like normal TV shows which span for seasons. They "renegotiate" every season so the fees increase every season. Coupled with VFX and the showrunners wanting to do more each season vs Netflix's increasing kung-fu-grip hold on the purse these days, I can see why it's not working out which leads to cancellation.  Like I said earlier, it sounds like Netflix is finally growing up and realizing $$$ is finite.

[technoblue]

Sad to say I’m not surprised by this move at all, no matter what the actual reason is behind the scenes. Will enjoy the rest of Jessica Jones and Punisher, though, until Netflix punches the eject button on them.