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ChaoticYeti

Macross maintenance.

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So I went digging through the old topics, and found a few that might be worthy of addition to the collection of repair topics.

Original Yamato VF-0 Nose Droop Fix: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=33217&page=3#entry860058

Old Yamato 1/60 YF-19 Fix Topic: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=21130&page=1

Discussion of broken Yamato YF-19s, but contains some discussion on repairs and Shapeways parts:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=35649&page=1

Veef's Shapeways parts start getting discussed about here:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=35649&page=5#entry1041892

SV-51 Disassembly Photos for accessing wing joints: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=143&page=24#entry867221

I should note, a few of these are individual posts within the larger "What's wrong with my Yamato, Bandai, etc." thread from long ago, and it's worth linking the entire thing here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=143&page=1

I think what might be useful is actually taking and compiling these individual topics and posts into an easier to search thread so they aren't all scattered around. A lot are within the "What's wrong" thread, but they're scattered, and might not be easy to search for.

As far as modifications go though, I've got two, if we want to add them to the list.

A slight mod for the v.2 VF-1's fast packs so they don't bend the tails so much, and stay level (slightly destructive to the packs, so you may not want to do this if you plan on ever re-selling them): http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=33306&hl=

Also a bit on the destructive side, if you ever felt like experimenting with the old Yamato YF-19's gullet..

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=38775&hl=

Also, while I know there are a lot of assorted Shapeways solutions out there for various valks (notably Veef's shoulders) do we have a full list of all that has been fixed using printed parts?

Edited by Chronocidal

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The one you posted is a precision screwdrivers. I also have a precision screwdriver set as well. For me, as long that the screwdriver you have is the right size for the screws, I think it's fine. What happens to the stripped screws is that they were using the wrong size of screwdrivers to use. Besides most of the toys have smaller screws so I guess the precision sized screwdrivers is enough. Hope that helps. ;)

Thanks - here's an article that explains a little more what I was on about http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/ - according to a few sources I've encountered, many Japanese models and toys use the JIS rather than Phillips standard. If you use a phillips with a JIS screw, you are more likely to strip it because it won't fit correctly because it's a bit to pointy. If you use a JIS screwdriver with a phillips, then you won't run that risk as it doesn't have the point.

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Thanks - here's an article that explains a little more what I was on about http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips/step10/ - according to a few sources I've encountered, many Japanese models and toys use the JIS rather than Phillips standard. If you use a phillips with a JIS screw, you are more likely to strip it because it won't fit correctly because it's a bit to pointy. If you use a JIS screwdriver with a phillips, then you won't run that risk as it doesn't have the point.

Ah. I know what you meant now. Phillips vs Frearson. I still think you can use it as long that you don't apply too much pressure while screw-ing. Because what happens is that if the screw is tight and you're using the wrong driver for it while adding too much force then yes, probably you're going to stip some of the '+'. But if you try to unscrew it gently, and see that the screw moves, then you can still use the right size. I know spending money on tools is an investment but if you're just going to use it like less a year (which I do), then I don't see the need to buy a different set if I can use the regular phillips that I have that fits. ;)

Anyways, that's just me blabbering. Hehehe. :lol:

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Thanks for sharing. I'll check into this once I tried to pull my VF-0A hip joints for more posability. ;)

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Thanks for the detailed step-by-step guide, ChaoticYeit. Although I'm hoping for the best, it's good to know where to turn if Valkyrie limbs start flying across the table. :o And I've been meaning to pick up a a plastic spudger for dismantling electronic gadgets. These screw hole covers give me another good reason for picking up that tool.

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this would be a continuation from http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42180&page=55#entry1221859 on the vf-0a fix findings

Evidence of bonding on the metal socket and plastic ball is seen by bare metal marks upon removal of plastic ball with metal socket. Looking at the surface of the ball certain areas the paint from the metal socket had stuck into the plastic causing rough spots on the ball.

post-15116-0-27157300-1442050919_thumb.jpgpost-15116-0-97916000-1442050945_thumb.jpgpost-15116-0-41979100-1442050976_thumb.jpg

There also seem to be adhesive marks on the half metal ball portion of the hip bar which seem to suggest that a form of adhesive was used...

I then proceeded to refit the plastic ball to the metal half ball.

It seemed that the ball was not a best fit, altough i tried many many angles. I couldnt get the ball to sit flush against the metal ball portion, it seemed the hollowed out plastic ball was not deep enough to fit the protuting metal square of the metal hip. This pic was the tightest friction fit i could have gotten and there was a noticible gap between the surfaces of the metal hip and ball.

post-15116-0-93117000-1442051217_thumb.jpg

All this lead me to believe an adhesive spillage affected the ball to stick to the socket. Likely, insufficient surface contact allowed access fluid to leak out into the surrounding ball/socket wall areas.

Am not sure why adhesive was used, but it could be to provide sufficient push back to avoid loose joints when both the plastic ball and metal half were enclosed in the socket.

A check with masking tape along the ridges of the socket seem to show the half plastic/metal ball being past the socket line. However as with yeti's pic above the socket is unable to fully close, since the diameter of the plastic ball also seems to be larger.

post-15116-0-63963800-1442051729_thumb.jpg

You can tell from the pic that the plastic ball seems to be larger.

After test closing it the socket still has a slight gap. Will see if i can sand paper the ball down to fit. The socket does seem to hold ok if i tighten the socket screws very very tightly, however that would seem back to square one and would like to do something to improve on the fit..

thats all for now...thanks for reading.....

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Why the blue blazes are they painting the metal for an internal joint??

Like... ok, seriously. We've been down this road before. The paint on the metal parts of the Fire Valk's ankles caused problems, so every later release, and every later VF-19 variant had bare metal ankles.

Did they just flat out forget how to design things that work?

Edited by Chronocidal

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this would be a continuation from http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42180&page=55#entry1221859 on the vf-0a fix findings

Evidence of bonding on the metal socket and plastic ball is seen by bare metal marks upon removal of plastic ball with metal socket. Looking at the surface of the ball certain areas the paint from the metal socket had stuck into the plastic causing rough spots on the ball.

attachicon.gifDSC_1808.jpgattachicon.gifDSC_1819.jpgattachicon.gifDSC_1814.jpg

There also seem to be adhesive marks on the half metal ball portion of the hip bar which seem to suggest that a form of adhesive was used...

I then proceeded to refit the plastic ball to the metal half ball.

It seemed that the ball was not a best fit, altough i tried many many angles. I couldnt get the ball to sit flush against the metal ball portion, it seemed the hollowed out plastic ball was not deep enough to fit the protuting metal square of the metal hip. This pic was the tightest friction fit i could have gotten and there was a noticible gap between the surfaces of the metal hip and ball.

attachicon.gifDSC_1821.jpg

All this lead me to believe an adhesive spillage affected the ball to stick to the socket. Likely, insufficient surface contact allowed access fluid to leak out into the surrounding ball/socket wall areas.

Am not sure why adhesive was used, but it could be to provide sufficient push back to avoid loose joints when both the plastic ball and metal half were enclosed in the socket.

A check with masking tape along the ridges of the socket seem to show the half plastic/metal ball being past the socket line. However as with yeti's pic above the socket is unable to fully close, since the diameter of the plastic ball also seems to be larger.

attachicon.gifDSC_1828.jpg

You can tell from the pic that the plastic ball seems to be larger.

After test closing it the socket still has a slight gap. Will see if i can sand paper the ball down to fit. The socket does seem to hold ok if i tighten the socket screws very very tightly, however that would seem back to square one and would like to do something to improve on the fit..

thats all for now...thanks for reading.....

As I guessed, we had the exact same issue.

Edited by ChaoticYeti

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@Yeti..

This is off topic but I just noticed that your avatar has changed again! its even more animated than before! Very cool! B))

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@Yeti..

This is off topic but I just noticed that your avatar has changed again! its even more animated than before! Very cool! B))

Hahaha! I keep playing with it. Fun to wait and see how long it takes for people to notice.

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hehe! had anyone else noticed it yet!?

You were the first since the blinking.

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and....he is up! vf-0a steve austin version!

post-15116-0-94676500-1442375487_thumb.jpg

I did a little sanding on the plastic ball, so the metal socket closes more evenly at the ends. The ball ended up with straight corners at some parts...however it helped to fit into the socket easier...

Broke the pins opening the thigh up though...just watch for the circled points below...the pin at the lower corner proved to be very annoying holding the halves together...difficult to get leverage while trying not to damage the paint too much..

post-15116-0-25258000-1442375875_thumb.jpg

There is a slight gap on the thigh as expected when closed but probably can be sealed better if i dabbed some glue on the broken pin joints + push the seperate thigh halves in on the metal pin better...for now its down to monitoring the durability, should it hold up then probably will do the closing up work better..

Yeti's guide was helpful enough so steve austin thanks Doc Yeti and also Doc noel for the tightening of the joints pointer!

Arcadia's price is expensive cos it includes maintenance experience (sorry a lil dark humour there)! I wonder if they will release an open hatch version tho, would be interesting to see internals and mechanics...!

:D:D

post-15116-0-78685700-1442375498_thumb.jpg

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Veef mentioned this in one of his Valkyrie reviews that it would be nice if those toys where constructed in a way that allows for easy maintenance. I second his thought. A toy that could be disassembled in to his parts would greatly help with fixing all the issues that result from mass production. On the other hand this would probably result in less screw hole covers and bigger seam lines.

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Veef mentioned this in one of his Valkyrie reviews that it would be nice if those toys where constructed in a way that allows for easy maintenance. I second his thought. A toy that could be disassembled in to his parts would greatly help with fixing all the issues that result from mass production. On the other hand this would probably result in less screw hole covers and bigger seam lines.

If they included an easy maintenance feature, I would thk that would be a game changer.

Are there any other toys that do that?

i would not want the durability of the toy to be affected in any way though.

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It looks like my VF-0D's left shoulder is a little loose. Unfortunately I can't access the screw to tighten it without removing the pin on the metal hinge. Does anyone know how to remove the hollow spring pins from the shoulder and inserting it back in without damaging the shoulder assembly?

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If they included an easy maintenance feature, I would thk that would be a game changer.

Are there any other toys that do that?

Yamato used to. Even with the screw covers, things weren't too hard to take apart until the VF-19s came out. Up until that point, I don't think they'd ever used those hollow spring pins.

The VF-1 was pretty much as good as it got though, and even that had several large glued-together sections. They just didn't used to glue them so securely that you couldn't pop the parts apart without damaging them.

On the opposite end, the VF-171 is absolutely the worst for this. Bandai glued things, screwed them together, and then covered the seams with another layer of glued-on surface detail. Of course this would be done on their valk most likely to suffer catastrophic damage. <_<

Edited by Chronocidal

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I hear ya....

As I recall, the SV-51 was not nice to get into either. In fact, it sort of reminds me of the 171 as far as "difficulty to get apart after things break" is concerned.

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Since Arcadia has an office in Hong Kong, peeps can actually get replacement parts. Just a heads-up for anyone with problems and for HK forum members.

Last time I used them was when they were Yamato and they replaced the metal swing bar on my 0S years ago.

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Yamato used to. Even with the screw covers, things weren't too hard to take apart until the VF-19s came out. Up until that point, I don't think they'd ever used those hollow spring pins.

The VF-1 was pretty much as good as it got though, and even that had several large glued-together sections. They just didn't used to glue them so securely that you couldn't pop the parts apart without damaging them.

On the opposite end, the VF-171 is absolutely the worst for this. Bandai glued things, screwed them together, and then covered the seams with another layer of glued-on surface detail. Of course this would be done on their valk most likely to suffer catastrophic damage. <_<

Making it easy to maintain probably would be the last on arcadia's mind, but i would welcome some direction on that point from arcadia. Am not even sure if that would be possible to push through somehow to higher management..

Did Yamato make ease of maintenance a feature or more likely just a by-product of their engineering stand-point at that time? Or perhaps they designed something they could themselves take apart after it was assembled. If so, i would certainly welcome such a feature again..

Yeah if someone could tell me how to remove a hollow pin safely that would be great. If not.....I can live with it.

dscn8419_zpsziysh8n7.jpg

sorry not too sure on that..i would think tho ur only option would be pushing it somehow (using a similar diameter needle or perhaps a circular brass tube https://www.hlj.com/product/ABEBT132/Sup used in modelling), as gripping it and pulling seems real difficult. Is it clear on the other end?

Since Arcadia has an office in Hong Kong, peeps can actually get replacement parts. Just a heads-up for anyone with problems and for HK forum members.

Last time I used them was when they were Yamato and they replaced the metal swing bar on my 0S years ago.

Thats good to know. Is there a process to contact them or a list of what they can replace?

Am not in HK but can arrange something if need be.

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Making it easy to maintain probably would be the last on arcadia's mind, but i would welcome some direction on that point from arcadia. Am not even sure if that would be possible to push through somehow to higher management..

Did Yamato make ease of maintenance a feature or more likely just a by-product of their engineering stand-point at that time? Or perhaps they designed something they could themselves take apart after it was assembled. If so, i would certainly welcome such a feature again..

sorry not too sure on that..i would think tho ur only option would be pushing it somehow (using a similar diameter needle or perhaps a circular brass tube https://www.hlj.com/product/ABEBT132/Sup used in modelling), as gripping it and pulling seems real difficult. Is it clear on the other end?

Thats good to know. Is there a process to contact them or a list of what they can replace?

Am not in HK but can arrange something if need be.

I'm thinking I might use something to push the pin out just enough and take it out with a needle nose pliers. I'm just not sure it will go back in very easily...maybe I can use a mallet to softly tap it back in. I did this before with the 1/60 VF-1 V2 shoulder hinges when I had to replace them, but this hollow pin has me worried the same outcome may not happen.

Edited by SuperHobo

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There are ways to remove them, because I've seen some people pull them out of the VF-19 feet to work on them, and I know I had to remove a few of them so I could reassemble one of my VF-27s in a non-backwards orientation.. it got shipped with the arms mounted backwards, and was completely incapable of transforming. <_<

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There are ways to remove them, because I've seen some people pull them out of the VF-19 feet to work on them, and I know I had to remove a few of them so I could reassemble one of my VF-27s in a non-backwards orientation.. it got shipped with the arms mounted backwards, and was completely incapable of transforming. <_<

Can you recall your methods to removing them and putting them back?

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Yeah if someone could tell me how to remove a hollow pin safely that would be great. If not.....I can live with it.

dscn8419_zpsziysh8n7.jpg

You can use a tool called Roll Pin Punches. Hope that helps. ;)

p_354000025_1.jpg

Edited by no3ljm

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Here is a guide I made for the Arcadia VF-0 leg issue.

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42180&p=1221564

fcl3iQXh.jpg

8qd7jNGh.jpg

Wow Chaotic you beat me on posting a fix for this issue, but you know I never had a issue with the peg breaking off on my 0D leg, I guess it was I used a small flathead screwdriver on each side to wiggle it apart, but if you're saying they glued the two halves together this time. I have to be mindful of that. Hey wait there were no pegs on the rear of the thigh armor? howcome I had trouble with getting the one off my 0D, I only got the front opened.

Edited by VF-18S Hornet

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Anybody have tips and tricks for the Hips of a VF-11C? Mine are super loose, and he can't hold any dynamic poses (folds like a lawn chair when I try anything more than an A-stance).

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Anybody have tips and tricks for the Hips of a VF-11C? Mine are super loose, and he can't hold any dynamic poses (folds like a lawn chair when I try anything more than an A-stance).

From what I recall on my VF-11b you can slide the entire hip socket out of the legs and then tighten the screw on the hip socket a full turn or two to your liking and it should fix any looseness. The hip sockets (joint + housing) is just held by friction in the hip area so you won't need to unscrew anything around the hip. Hope that helps!

Edited by SuperHobo

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Hey Yeti. Just got an email from Shapeways about my nubs order. That they're unable to manufacture it due to too fragile for certain materials and that they already informed the designer about the matter. Anyways, give us a heads up again if some changes has been made. Thanks! ;)

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Hey Yeti. Just got an email from Shapeways about my nubs order. That they're unable to manufacture it due to too fragile for certain materials and that they already informed the designer about the matter. Anyways, give us a heads up again if some changes has been made. Thanks! ;)

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42180&p=1236596

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