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I'm on the same wavelength as Mike; as Long as I've been hearing the term 'third party' in relation to Transformers, it has been in reference to unofficial independent toymakers' products, which just so happen to look like everyone's favorite robots in disguise. Anything licensed, therefore, falls into the 'official' category for me as well.

However, I understand your argument, and it makes sense to consider licensed Transformer stuff not by Hasbro or Takara/Tomy, be it mugs, t-shirts, toys, statues, keychains, etc, ad nauseum, to be third party, as would just about any other line of products licensed by a parent company. I wouldn't consider it incorrect; however, within this particular thread, 'third party' is synonymous with unlicensed products, and I think confusion would ensue if it was also used to describe licensed products not made by Has/Tak. Just my $.02.

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I'm in the same boat to where Third party has become synonymous with "unlicensed," but it's definitely become a long discussion and some really good points have been brought up (By you guys as well.) Here are some responses from when I posted it on my Facebook:

"I think we can call them otp aka official third party?  i pre order drift too, and i hope you will make the review as soon as you get it, i will get my drift maybe about one or 2 month after you because shipping etc"

"I would consider them first party, but yeah the thing to expect with all of those is....no transformation what so ever"

"For me it's a first party alright. Since they're using official names and badges for the said products. A third party doesn't use the official names and badges but a new product nonetheless. Well, that's just my opinion anyway."

"Given the term is a colloquialism informed from the gaming community, I tend to bend toward those informal definitions. In this example first party is Hasbro, second party is contracted by Hasbro and third party exists outside those contracts. Since most collectors are also gamers, this tends to communicate effectively.
I'm not really sure what Ha"

"I'm pretty sure this is the definition of 2nd party. 1st party are the license holders. 2nd party are licensees, and 3rd party are not licensed."

"they're still made by a 3rd party, so they're still 3rd party. they're just licensed."

" I would still consider them official (first party). It just meant that particular line got subcontracted out. Still in official license though."

"Third Party licensed." - ***This is what I would label them as myself**

 


 

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I prefer the term independent toy makers instead of 3rd party. It catches much more what the idea of these companies where when they started. I don't have any actual numbers to compare it against releases from smaller toy manufacturers like Sentinel or Arcadia but I heard that a run of a unlicensed transforming toy is between 500 and 1500 units which is tiny.

These companies also mostly don't have any licensing departments, offices, advertisement staff o even full time employees so I think independent toy maker fits those outlets pretty well. 3rd party usually refers to something that has official ties to the 1st party so I don't think the term fits but stuck around (it is also quicker to type 3r or 3rd party).

Regarding to your comments Kuma I think the 2nd party usually describes the customer of the products from the 1st party so FlameToys or other companies that license from Hasbro doesn't fit that description either. 

In the end it doesn't really matter to me what to call them I just want to buy cool toys. That said if I'd buy the FlameToys Drift I would post my thoughts about him in this thread.

Oh man, I really hope he is stellar. If completed my Metal Build collection this week so there might be budget available for him but I don't have the room to but him anywhere.....

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Oh yea, man. I'm with you in that none of it really matters. Completely. Just fun for the conversation factor. 

Someone else said earlier that Third Party normally refers to licensed products from other parties while anything else would just be called unlicensed and not a party at all. Toy collecting is really the first time I've dealt with this verbage at all but that seems to make sense.

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Got the full review up for the TFX-07 Parallax Blue Armor armor.  http://kumastyledesigns.com/fansproject-tfx-07-review/

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Tried to give my opinion on this one as clearly as possible in the article because it's a bit mixed. Here are some pics from the gallery portion:

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I find your critique, "PITA", both amusing and a bit cryptic. Difficult to transform? Things don't line up? Is there a forthcoming review to elucidate the 'painful' aspect? ^_^

Regardless, it's purty. I dig it from looks alone. Is this Iron Factory?  I remember seeing something like this not too long ago posted among a number of convention pics, I believe still in grayscale. Too lazy to research, but I recall even then, it caught my attention. 

I'm rather quite content with my Fanstoys Phoenix:wub:, but Skyfire, and Jetfire, based toys always interest me, and so therein lies my curiosity. 

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35 minutes ago, M'Kyuun said:

Regardless, it's purty. I dig it from looks alone. Is this Iron Factory?

I think it's the X2 Toys one. And if it is, it's roughly Leader class. Gotta wait a few more days before I can check out YouTube reviews (thanks, Great Firewall!), but it seemed like a decent CHUG iron if you didn't care for the any of the official options. Doesn't look like he's going to cut it if you're in my "want something MP-ish but Phoenix is too big, scale chart be damned" boat.

EDIT: And what's up with FansProject? Huge gaps and total silence between releases have people thinking they're all but dead, and they respond with a new upgrade kit for a 10-year old toy they already made an upgrade kit for?

Edited by mikeszekely

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1 hour ago, M'Kyuun said:

I find your critique, "PITA", both amusing and a bit cryptic. Difficult to transform? Things don't line up? Is there a forthcoming review to elucidate the 'painful' aspect? ^_^

Regardless, it's purty. I dig it from looks alone. Is this Iron Factory?  I remember seeing something like this not too long ago posted among a number of convention pics, I believe still in grayscale. Too lazy to research, but I recall even then, it caught my attention. 

I'm rather quite content with my Fanstoys Phoenix:wub:, but Skyfire, and Jetfire, based toys always interest me, and so therein lies my curiosity. 

- It's Sky Crusher from X2Toys. Had problems with the headmaster but for the most part have it fixed up now. It's pretty damned nice. More diecast than any other transforming piece I've ever played with, intricate but not "hard" transformation, and overall looks decent in both modes minus the actual face on the headmaster. Review will be up Sunday.

- This is classics-scale vs. Phoenix being MP. I collect both so it's nice to have an appropriate one for each class. I'd love a Dark Skyfire repaint of this.

 

44 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

EDIT: And what's up with FansProject? Huge gaps and total silence between releases have people thinking they're all but dead, and they respond with a new upgrade kit for a 10-year old toy they already made an upgrade kit for?


Were never dead; just restructuring. The original City Commander kits were made with Ultra Magnus in mind (obviously) and cashed in on repaints where this one does the opposite with being made primarily to upgrade Prime into PMOP and then the retool/repaint cash-in for Magnus. These are much better than the original commander armors in terms of functionality, but City Commander has a very big nostalgia charm for me. The Prime one just kicks the crap out of the DIA repaint, though. Surprisingly, it looks much better than Striker Manus to me side-by-side as well. Upcoming next is Pinchar (Snarl) to finish up the Lost Exo Realm Dinobots. Check out their Facebook page to keep up-to-date with them since they're updating that pretty diligently now.

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I will wait for the Cross Dimensions Skyfire.

In other news I got a mail from BBTS that my PlanetX FOC Skywarp will be shipping soon.

This will be my first PlanetX toy so I’m curious how it will turn out. 

I’m still waiting for a Nemesis Jupiter announcement from them though.

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I'm getting every Jetfire that's good, TBH.

Speaking of multi-character collections, started organizing my primes again.

20171111_161737-e1510438819937.jpg

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Wow! That's a lotta Prime.

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Fanstoys just announced Superion and showed Silverbolt as a Concorde w/bending nose.  Said to scale with FT20.  Looks interesting.

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OMG I might need to get that...

*looks at pictures*

...Silverbolt looks not that bad from the underside in jet-mode that is pretty awesome.

I definitively need to get that.

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I wonder what David has to say about that undercarriage of the F-16. ^_^

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Eh, the nose on Silverbolt should just be kept straight.  It looks weird to have the nose dip and the shape of the canopy to remain the same.  But that's just a knee-jerk impression.  Overall FT looks like it tried to minimize the jet strapped to a bot's back look, so I'm looking forward to it.

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That Superion is going to be absolutely MASSIVE.

Got the Full review for X2Toys XT-010 SkyCrusher up on site. http://kumastyledesigns.com/x2toys-skycrusher-review/

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Definitely had to go a little longer in the article because this one nails so much but falls short in  a few areas that are pretty crucial. Here are some pics from the gallery:

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8 hours ago, Dangard Ace said:

Fanstoys just announced Superion and showed Silverbolt as a Concorde w/bending nose.  Said to scale with FT20.  Looks interesting.

I can't really bring myself to get excited about this.  It's not that I don't think FansToys will do a good job, I just don't trust a FansToys announcement to go from CGI renders to something I could actually buy in less than three years.  And even then, how many other figures will they decide to do and somehow get out the door first?  Asking for a friend that goes by Hoodlum.

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I seriously cannot imagine anyone succeeding at making Silverbolt anything other than a Concorde lugging a giant robot in box-form underneath.

If someone ever proves me wrong, I'll be first on line to get one, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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39 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I can't really bring myself to get excited about this.  It's not that I don't think FansToys will do a good job, I just don't trust a FansToys announcement to go from CGI renders to something I could actually buy in less than three years.  And even then, how many other figures will they decide to do and somehow get out the door first?  Asking for a friend that goes by Hoodlum.

 

Oh I'm worried about the weight of the individual bots screwing with the posability of Superion.  FT stupid need to make things "feel premium" via weight could be detrimental here....but FT's Silverbolts bot mode is so much better looking than Zeta's...

As for Hoodlum, I still stand by that if HasTak has made an MP of it FT will not release it in direct competition.  

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18 minutes ago, Dangard Ace said:

As for Hoodlum, I still stand by that if HasTak has made an MP of it FT will not release it in direct competition.  

That would a damn shame since Hoodlum looks to be a better MP than the official one.

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1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

I seriously cannot imagine anyone succeeding at making Silverbolt anything other than a Concorde lugging a giant robot in box-form underneath.

If someone ever proves me wrong, I'll be first on line to get one, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

I don't know if it's "lowered standards" or something but I completely agree and have somehow come to grips with it.

Video for SkyCrusher:
 

 

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2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I seriously cannot imagine anyone succeeding at making Silverbolt anything other than a Concorde lugging a giant robot in box-form underneath.

If someone ever proves me wrong, I'll be first on line to get one, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

FT did a far better job than TFC back in the day. The Fanstoys one doesn’t look like a box underneath a plane to me.

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14 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I seriously cannot imagine anyone succeeding at making Silverbolt anything other than a Concorde lugging a giant robot in box-form underneath.

+1   I'm thinking it becomes necessary due to the limbs needing to be a certain size for combination that drives that design. The FT looks like a box under a Concorde to me, too,  although better integrated. And the bot mode looks like a robot with a fragmented Concorde for a backpack.

It's generally the same story for the Blackbird. The Action Toys Machine Robo Blackbird figure is probably the best SR-71 transforming toy I've seen, and it's still far from perfect. But at least it utilizes the fuselage and engines of the plane to become the bot rather than a box or jumble of folded robot hanging obviously from its underside. Kawamori's VF-14 provides another good example of how a folding fuselage design can be used for long slender aircraft, utilizing the various parts of the aircraft itself to become the bot, rather than tacking it up against the bottom of the plane like a giant cargo cube.

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Got a big box today.  Still going through it, but it looks like I got a bad Galaxy Meteor... <_<

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FT's Silverbolt may have the sleekest belly by far, but the ginormous humps blocking the passenger windows are pretty much deal-killers.  Additional belly kibble would be far preferable to those eye-sores.  

Also, the canopy and nose droop are just insanely wrong.  I think they tried to use the shape of a prototype Concorde with sorta the visor of a final production model.  And those are quite different shapes/looks, and the combination looks awkward as heck.  

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You know what I could deal with for a better Silverbolt?  Make him into a space shuttle.  Big boxy construct that has plenty of room for everything.

I'm also not attached to the characters origins though, so that's just me. ^_^

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4 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

You know what I could deal with for a better Silverbolt?  Make him into a space shuttle.  Big boxy construct that has plenty of room for everything.

I'm also not attached to the characters origins though, so that's just me. ^_^

Meanwhile Hasbro went the other direction and turned Sky Lynx into a pseudo-Concorde.

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On 11/9/2017 at 5:53 PM, Jeremy007 said:

This is exactly why i stopped checking this thread out. As soon as kuma joined and started spamming the thread with his pics, i knew his attitude would not be far behind.  I am not into 3rd party figs at all but a few of my buddies are and two of them experienced what Slaginpit just did.  Both made harmless comments only to get snappad at.   My go to reviewers are peaugh and wotafa. The two i avoid like the plague...skullface and kuma.  Like i said...not at all in to 3rd party stuff but i did occasionally like checking out some pics and reviews but now that kuma and his attitude is here, I've been staying far away.  In my 10 years on MW, i have only put one person on my ignore list...now there are two. 

I find Skullface pretty good. He interacts ok with his subs. Outside of the transformation blah blah blah, which at times is useful as I need help with some of the steps as I never use the instructions., I like his final thoughts as they seem to be the most unbiased. What I am really interested in is a recommend or not.  All I did with Kuma was pay a nice compliment to his photography skills and mentioned how cool it would be with backgrounds. And then he gets snarky. He has a history of this. And its amusing watching him use the search function furiously to find any thread related to Third Party thread to litter his pics with. So much for a guy who doesnt care positive or negative what people think. Outside of that beauty of the shots, I really like our long time resident that posts his reviews in this thread.

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On 11/13/2017 at 2:41 PM, Scyla said:

OMG I might need to get that...

*looks at pictures*

...Silverbolt looks not that bad from the underside in jet-mode that is pretty awesome.

I definitively need to get that.

?temp_hash=304b9b93493ba730100937a3962d6

I wonder what David has to say about that undercarriage of the F-16. ^_^

I just crap myself. I got to sell my TFC Superioun before its worthless. If it isnt already

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25 minutes ago, slaginpit said:

I really like our long time resident that posts his reviews in this thread.

tenor.gif.c13a0e7c825c6d5f901c37633dafbe7d.gif

Who, me?

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1 hour ago, mikeszekely said:

tenor.gif.c13a0e7c825c6d5f901c37633dafbe7d.gif

Who, me?

Ah yeah ..... I wish I had the time to do the complete reviews you do. But thankfully you do it for us and even cover some of the older molds. Keep up the good work!

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5 hours ago, slaginpit said:

Ah yeah ..... I wish I had the time to do the complete reviews you do. But thankfully you do it for us and even cover some of the older molds. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the kind words! I hope to have some new stuff up soon, once I shake this pesky jet lag. I usually work after I put my daughter to bed, but right now I'm having trouble making it past dinner time.

Anyway, new stuff soon. But not Galaxy Meteor. Mine is going back, so I have to wait for a replacement.

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