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Macross World Podcast - feedback & comments

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I find the story about Kawamori's meetings with the Hollywood people interesting but mostly sad. First, it's clear why movies suck so hard in the US is because the morons here think everything has to have a "destiny" attached to it or we can't understand it (and partly why the new Star Trek doesn't work, Kirk had no destiny he just kicked ass, so did Indiana Jones, countless other iconic film heroes were just everyday people as well...) Second, the fact Kawamori didn't fight back on a lot of their points. Like why Minmay? Because she was there. It's s war, most people do "great" things because they're the only motherf**kers there. And by the time of the final attack pretty much all of earth was wiped out, who the hell else was going to be able to sing at that level anyway? Also, why music? Because music is a great shorthand for emotions in stories, it's why film makers use it EVERYWHERE. It should be blatantly obvious that attempting to broadcast television or a novel wouldn't work as well as music would.

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Another Great podcast! Really interesting about that Macross movie script. tbh I would have loved to have seen it, the main plot points are there and its quite cool to know that what was used in that treatment was used later on in other Macross series.

Solid stuff!

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I find the story about Kawamori's meetings with the Hollywood people interesting but mostly sad. First, it's clear why movies suck so hard in the US is because the morons here think everything has to have a "destiny" attached to it or we can't understand it

I also felt bad about the idea that Kawamori was tainted by Hollywoodthink and ended up second guessing himself based on those meetings. Minmay worked hard to get where she was and that was one of the things I admired about the character. There was no 'chosen one' plotline-she just busted her butt to get where she was. But maybe that's a hard sell to American sci-fi audiences who have been spoiled by too much Star Wars. Ever since Luke we just want to root for the shiftless whiny goofball who is somehow magically a great pilot destined to save the galaxy. Hikaru was nowhere near that, but it looks to me like Hayate may tun out that way.

Also, why music? Because music is a great shorthand for emotions in stories, it's why film makers use it EVERYWHERE. It should be blatantly obvious that attempting to broadcast television or a novel wouldn't work as well as music would.

I can see some marketer trying to get Kawamori to use Hostess fruit pies as the mcguffin that saves the day instead of a song. The Zentraedi don't stand a chance against our fruit filling! Let's make Minmay a baker instead of a singer! We'll sell a million cherry pies with Minmay on the wrappers!

I wonder what US company would have handled the manufacture and/or distribution of the licensed toy product circa 1992. I can kind of imagine what Toy Biz figures of Ace or Maria would look like based on their 5 inch Marvel stuff from around that time. It would be horrible. Maybe Hasbro/Kenner would have done it and we would have gotten beefy bodybuilders in 3 3/4 inch scale like the '95 Star Wars line. Maybe Playmates would have been involved and it would have been similar to what they did with ExoSquad.

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Those were some very positive comments-----gotta ask---did you cherry-pick them? Or maybe only people who really liked it voiced their thoughts? (Which seems unlikely, as the Internet above all else is where all of humanity goes to complain).

The podcast seems much more upbeat about Delta than the forum as a whole, from what I see.

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Nope, not at all. That's all the responses we got, in their unedited form.

Perhaps it is illustrative of this forum skewing towards a certain demographic and not being an accurate representation of fans of Macross and anime in general?

Just a thought.

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Great podcast.

You had some very eloquent and insightful guests. I will leave podcasting to the pros from now on.

But no feedback from any ladies? It was all guys!

Edited by arbit

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Those were some very positive comments-----gotta ask---did you cherry-pick them? Or maybe only people who really liked it voiced their thoughts? (Which seems unlikely, as the Internet above all else is where all of humanity goes to complain).

The podcast seems much more upbeat about Delta than the forum as a whole, from what I see.

I think it's because the overall feel of this site is usually for gritty mecha action of yesteryear, and many here, don't seem to care for anything outside of their perspective. I know it's not like that for every person here. Some just didn't take onto it as well. I certainly respect everyone's opinions on the matter, but why are you getting so upset that other people actually like it? I mean, so much so that you're accusing someone of cherry picking for the sake of pushing an agenda? Kinda low there.

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Just throwing it out there, but I didn't take David's comments as anything more than an honest question. Especially given the disclaimer "gotta ask" as an almost apology or a "don't take this the wrong way" sort of thing. He's right though, the majority of (written) comments expressing dislike would certainly lead one to believe that Tochiro had only used the positive (spoken) comments, because surely there'd be negative ones as well.

I'm glad to hear that at least those who were willing to voice their opinions verbally, actually like the show. I'm certainly one of those who wants to give it a chance and is hoping it'll have some depth and entertaining value as a logical progression of the Macross story.

Just my thoughts and in no way meant to belittle or denigrate anyone else's, Jason.

Edited by mickyg

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I think it is the way in which it was asked, but that's just what it seems for me. If not, no worries then.

It's also not my intent to come off defensive. It's usually comes off as a bit of a shot across the bow, when the first comments are tied to a question of integrity. It almost requires a question right back about the intent of the one asking. In any case, there does seem to be a pretty fair review of what people have seen. There doesn't need to be people that hate it just as equally as someone else, to make it feel even.

Edited by Jasonc

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Right you are, Jason!

I for one, am enjoying the back and forth and the differing opinions, passionate or otherwise. It certainly shows we all have a way of thinking about what we see and how we process it, and that's what makes us all unique and individuals. Bring on the show so we can have more healthy discourse, I say!

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That's what I'm waiting on. I share a lot of the same feelings with those in the podcast. Not all of it, but a good amount. The one thing that seems to be a common thread is that it's really too early. Even for me, I like what I see now, but I can't jump the gun and say it's going to be great. I just don't know, but I am optimistic so far. Despite a couple issues that I had with the show, I'm not expecting perfection. Just something that I can anticipate.

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Well, I didn't send in a submission because I was sure negative comments would be censored anyway. So, well, that's one aspect for the lack of negative submissions.

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Well, I didn't send in a submission because I was sure negative comments would be censored anyway. So, well, that's one aspect for the lack of negative submissions.

Well unfortunately you've self-censored then. ^^;

I never said we wanted just positive comments, I said we wanted peoples opinions and impressions, period. :-)

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I got a lot out of this episode. I just hope the rest of the series lives up to all the anticipation!

Edited by chrisk

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Nope, not at all. That's all the responses we got, in their unedited form.

Perhaps it is illustrative of this forum skewing towards a certain demographic and not being an accurate representation of fans of Macross and anime in general?

Just a thought.

You might find that fans of the podcast are not the exact makeup of the Macross forum as a whole.

It's something I've noticed that different forums on Macross World have totally different regular visitors and different vibes.

Also, some people speak totally differently in person than they would when they are on social media.

For example, I've heard many articulate fair minded people in person, but give them a keyboard and they are ripping people's heads off!

My point is, I think many more are positive or willing to give Delta a chance than appears from Forum individual posts, which may be reactions to pet peeves. There is a survey on the forums which indicates haters are not the majority.

Take myself as an example, I respect Kawamori as a visionary designer, I fan gush about Macross, I'm gonna do my utmost to like Delta, but at the same time, a magic girl is a magic girl is a magic girl...

Edited by arbit

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It was simply a question----when we mods find pages and pages of rants about "magical girls ruining the franchise" in many threads about Delta, then the podcast is like the opposite of that, it does seem odd in a way.

I mean----what if the podcast had asked about Plus or DYRL, and like everyone hated it? It'd be very "unexpected based on what is usually seen in the forums".

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It was simply a question----when we mods find pages and pages of rants about "magical girls ruining the franchise" in many threads about Delta, then the podcast is like the opposite of that, it does seem odd in a way.

I mean----what if the podcast had asked about Plus or DYRL, and like everyone hated it? It'd be very "unexpected based on what is usually seen in the forums".

You'd have to have a lot larger selection of voices in that podcast to get a better feel for how most people have reacted to Delta, one way or the other.

I can't let something that sprang up in this episode go without commenting on it: just because something very different or odd in a new Macross production has been done in some small way before in an previous production does not mean the new production fits in perfectly with the rest. Macross hasn't "always been like this," whatever "this" happens to be at the time. And those who take issue with these differences aren't in denial.

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It was simply a question----when we mods find pages and pages of rants about "magical girls ruining the franchise" in many threads about Delta, then the podcast is like the opposite of that, it does seem odd in a way.

I mean----what if the podcast had asked about Plus or DYRL, and like everyone hated it? It'd be very "unexpected based on what is usually seen in the forums".

I recall that in the first podcast following the Delta preview, several of the guys flat out said they didn't like it, and the other half said they did.

On other forums here I was concerned that Delta would really polarize the fans, with everyone at each others throats.

Doesn't make for a fun forum if people don't respect opposite opinions.

Whether you hate Delta or love it, I hope everyone will be able to express themselves without personal attacks.

I hope moderators will watch out for that.

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We could always open up submission again, if Tochiro is up for it. The only thing is, will you guys take the time to submit something?

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I for one have really been enjoying the podcast lately. I have listened off and on since the beginning, and decided to tune in for the premier of Delta. I listen to quite a few sci-fi-centric podcast, and as far as I am concerned, the speaker podcast is far and away the best. It's just easy to listen to and never feels like a chore to get through. All the better that it is devoted to such an obscure franchise.

As for Delta, it seems a little bit silly on the surface, and I can see why some people would prefer a return to the more realistic, classic naval aviation aspects of Macross like we saw in Zero. I think it has great potential, if I had to come up with one criticism it would be that the Var syndrome doesn't make for a very compelling "villain" in the show.

Keep up the great work speaker podcast crew, I will be listening intently from here on out, and waiting for the first few episodes of Delta to premier.

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You'd have to have a lot larger selection of voices in that podcast to get a better feel for how most people have reacted to Delta, one way or the other.

I believe that was the entire point. To provide a larger selection of voices than the echo chamber that is MW. You'll notice that a lot of the people who contributed are not MW members, and if they are, they rarely post. There was even had one guy who had never seen any Macross, ever. Who knows, maube the reason they don't post is the overall air of negativity? I'll be the first to admit that's the reason I hardly go into the toy forums anymore, I don't know if anybody noticed :p , even though it used to be my most frequented one.

I still remember very clearly ages ago, when you yourself had a negative reaction to Destroy All Podcasts DX episode about Macross 7 and simply posted, "I didn't get it." When prompted, you elaborated, "I just didn't get why the love fest". You'll notice those guys aren't really around in the forums any more. But they are out there, still enjoying anime.

The only problems I have with the sample is that there are no women, the age range does not seem diverse enough, and there are no Japanese voices. But of course, there's obviously reasons for that.

I think this has been a great experiment in exploring just how virtual spaces work. The trick is to always remain aware that there are walls around these spaces, and the general social consciousness differs outside of them.

I for one have really been enjoying the podcast lately. I have listened off and on since the beginning, and decided to tune in for the premier of Delta. I listen to quite a few sci-fi-centric podcast, and as far as I am concerned, the speaker podcast is far and away the best. It's just easy to listen to and never feels like a chore to get through. All the better that it is devoted to such an obscure franchise.

As for Delta, it seems a little bit silly on the surface, and I can see why some people would prefer a return to the more realistic, classic naval aviation aspects of Macross like we saw in Zero. I think it has great potential, if I had to come up with one criticism it would be that the Var syndrome doesn't make for a very compelling "villain" in the show.

Keep up the great work speaker podcast crew, I will be listening intently from here on out, and waiting for the first few episodes of Delta to premier.

Thank you! As for the villain, I don't think the "var syndrome" is the villain, rather, I see it as simply a tool that the real villains are using.

Edited by Renato

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We could always open up submission again, if Tochiro is up for it. The only thing is, will you guys take the time to submit something?

I would be willing to guess that some folks (possibly myself included) would find recording audio of themselves commenting on a topic, to be a bit daunting. What if I mess up? My voice sounds silly. People will think I'm a nerd. *gasp* You know, stuff like that. ;)

It's different if someone is interviewing you. But get yourself in front of a recording device with just your thoughts and all sorts of weird stuff can make you think twice about going through with it.

For the record, I like to talk and would love to contribute if this gets opened again. Just need a quite couple of minutes and something worthwhile to say. Oops, see, I've done it again!

Edited by mickyg

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I still remember very clearly ages ago, when you yourself had a negative reaction to Destroy All Podcasts DX episode about Macross 7 and simply posted, "I didn't get it." When prompted, you elaborated, "I just didn't get why the love fest". You'll notice those guys aren't really around in the forums any more. But they are out there, still enjoying anime.

I just looked that thread up, and there wasn't an atmosphere of negativity going on in it at all. And I said a lot more than that.

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Whether you hate Delta or love it, I hope everyone will be able to express themselves without personal attacks.

I hope moderators will watch out for that.

Oh, Delta (and people's opinions of it) has certainly kept us busy with cleaning up the forums.

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Great podcast.

You had some very eloquent and insightful guests. I will leave podcasting to the pros from now on.

But no feedback from any ladies? It was all guys!

Hey Arbit, your contribution was great! Hope you'll be up for a similar post-mortem podcast when Delta finishes.

As for the ladies - as I've said on the cast, I know far more female Macross fans than male ones - and none of them speak a word of English, sorry ^^;.

I got a lot out of this episode. I just hope the rest of the series lives up to all the anticipation!

You and me both!

It was simply a question----when we mods find pages and pages of rants about "magical girls ruining the franchise" in many threads about Delta, then the podcast is like the opposite of that, it does seem odd in a way.

I mean----what if the podcast had asked about Plus or DYRL, and like everyone hated it? It'd be very "unexpected based on what is usually seen in the forums".

Funnily enough, I've found that among younger generation (late Gen Y and Millenial) of Macross and anime fans in the West, Macross Plus gets quite a bad rap. That generation is more used to longer, tv-series length narratives and (anecdotally speaking) they tend to find the plot and characters of Plus to be shallow and/or lacking.

It's interesting the difference that a generation can make in the way people view a title.

You'd have to have a lot larger selection of voices in that podcast to get a better feel for how most people have reacted to Delta, one way or the other.

I can't let something that sprang up in this episode go without commenting on it: just because something very different or odd in a new Macross production has been done in some small way before in an previous production does not mean the new production fits in perfectly with the rest. Macross hasn't "always been like this," whatever "this" happens to be at the time. And those who take issue with these differences aren't in denial.

I actually had a conversation on just this topic with two older Macross fans I met a couple of weeks back on separate occasions which I'm saving for a future podcast (won't be the next one, but will be included somewhere in the next 3 eps at some point).

Both expressed the exact opposite of your opinion, interestingly enough. basically, that there are more entries in the Macross franchise have gone out of their way to shock and surprise fans by being completely out of left field, than there are entries that didn't. As such, they felt that the greatest way a Macross could fail would be to cater to fans and be exactly what they expected.

They thought that surprise should be a part of a new entry at this point.

Interesting difference of opinion imo.

I for one have really been enjoying the podcast lately. I have listened off and on since the beginning, and decided to tune in for the premier of Delta. I listen to quite a few sci-fi-centric podcast, and as far as I am concerned, the speaker podcast is far and away the best. It's just easy to listen to and never feels like a chore to get through. All the better that it is devoted to such an obscure franchise.

As for Delta, it seems a little bit silly on the surface, and I can see why some people would prefer a return to the more realistic, classic naval aviation aspects of Macross like we saw in Zero. I think it has great potential, if I had to come up with one criticism it would be that the Var syndrome doesn't make for a very compelling "villain" in the show.

Keep up the great work speaker podcast crew, I will be listening intently from here on out, and waiting for the first few episodes of Delta to premier.

Thanks for the kind words! It's great that we are starting to get more feedback (and hopefully more listeners?) as delta approaches :-)

Speaking of which, I'm trying to decide how best to cover Delta when it starts.

Personally I think that a weekly podcast would be too much and am leaning towards an Delta-only podcast every 4 episodes or so (with potential non-Delta podcasts in between as news requires).

Thoughts?

Edited by Tochiro

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Bottom line, people have different opinions.

For example, I think Macross Plus is God's gift to entertainment.

Someone else might hate it.

But what is valuable to me and what I believe makes the forum valuable, is to get a clear analysis of why they hate it, not just one-liners or disparaging remarks discounting other views.

Another example, I'm not big on 7. But when I heard your podcast discussing how true Basara is to his ideals, how unwavering to his beliefs, I was truly moved to a higher level of appreciation for the show in retrospect. (But still not gonna rewatch it all. I'm no masochist).

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I actually had a conversation on just this topic with two older Macross fans I met a couple of weeks back on separate occasions which I'm saving for a future podcast (won't be the next one, but will be included somewhere in the next 3 eps at some point).

Both expressed the exact opposite of your opinion, interestingly enough. basically, that there are more entries in the Macross franchise have gone out of their way to shock and surprise fans by being completely out of left field, than there are entries that didn't. As such, they felt that the greatest way a Macross could fail would be to cater to fans and be exactly what they expected.

They thought that surprise should be a part of a new entry at this point.

Interesting difference of opinion imo.

I don't disagree with that. At all, really. I wish they'd do something different with the franchise outside of love triangles and "music saves the day." I was speaking more of the excusing away of the magical girl idol group in Delta by saying the Macross franchise has established the technologies in past productions that make what we're seeing possible. Or that past character did something similar once, so a new one taking that to an extreme is on par with what's come before. I would think in a post-Frontier environment that they could take some chances to try something different with the franchise, instead of what is a safe and easy sell to kids.

Edited by Duke Togo

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Funnily enough, I've found that among younger generation (late Gen Y and Millenial) of Macross and anime fans in the West, Macross Plus gets quite a bad rap. That generation is more used to longer, tv-series length narratives and (anecdotally speaking) they tend to find the plot and characters of Plus to be shallow and/or lacking.

It's interesting the difference that a generation can make in the way people view a title.

Yeah... hey look, this guy hated DYRL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZeiV_r-2sY

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Initially, I wasn't planning on making a submission because I thought too much time passed after the initial call, but weeks later Tochiro posted on Macross Fans-US on Facebook saying he still needed submissions.

As Renato pointed out, I'm one of those MW forum members that does not post very often. I appreciated the opportunity to contribute to the podcast, as it gave me the chance join the Delta conversation and share thoughts that I wouldn't have posted otherwise. Because some of the skepticism directed at Delta, I wanted to share the reasoning for my optimism. It's too early to judge the plot, but regardless how that turns out, we *will* be getting Valkyrie on Valkyrie combat, and we *will* be getting throwbacks to classic Macross (as seen by the appearance of classic Zentradi designs).

@MickyG - No one likes listening to their own voice. I never recorded anything before, but I found the pause button on my iPhone sound recorder pretty handy in between thoughts. We're also all Macross fans, so "nerd out" or "geek out" to Macross all you like ;)

Edited by HannouHeiki

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Funnily enough, I've found that among younger generation (late Gen Y and Millenial) of Macross and anime fans in the West, Macross Plus gets quite a bad rap. That generation is more used to longer, tv-series length narratives and (anecdotally speaking) they tend to find the plot and characters of Plus to be shallow and/or lacking.

It's interesting the difference that a generation can make in the way people view a title.

As a Gen Y/Millennial myself, yeah I did find Macross Plus to be pretty shallow. The animation was gorgeous and the soundtrack was great but everything else was pretty meh. I've met plenty of other fans around my age group that feel the same way so Tochiro does speak the truth.

Edited by Karaoke Ninja

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As a Gen Y/Millennial myself, yeah I did find Macross Plus to be pretty shallow. The animation was gorgeous and the soundtrack was great but everything else was pretty meh. I've met plenty of other fans around my age group that feel the same way so Tochiro does speak the truth.

I can understand that. But in its day, Plus was way ahead of the curve. It was literally unbelievable. We had never seen animation like that, even in Hollywood action movies.

But I have seen younger guys spoiled by abundant CG that see it as a pretty normal action movie.

However, the music is something that even you young folk can't complain about.

It's all about your perspective. I showed Honneamise to an art student in Columbia University and he was like, meh, then when I told him it was made by a bunch of amateurs, he was like, "oh, in that case, show me that again, weren't there art backgrounds in every scene"!

Edited by arbit

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Yeah... hey look, this guy hated DYRL.

Are you using that example as a rebuttal, or an acknowledgement, of Tochiro's point? I honestly cannot tell.

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Are you using that example as a rebuttal, or an acknowledgement, of Tochiro's point? I honestly cannot tell.

Acknowledgement. As if to confirm Tochiro's point, the reviewer in the video pans DYRL for not having the content that the SDFM TV series had.

Edited by Vifam7

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