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52 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Ehh. Fishbed wasn't exactly flattering either. With names like Fulcrum, Foxhound, Flanker and Fullback, "Felon" is just meh.

Why is NATO even assigning callsigns anymore?  Why not adopt the Russian name on new aircraft?

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I don’t think the 57 even has a Russian name. From what I read, Russians call it the “PAK-FA” (phonetically) or “Soo-57” (57 in Russian.) And NATO is still very much a thing, with what, 11-12 languages to deal with. Add to all that Russia generally doesn’t play nice with others and there’s still a need for a code name. I guess “Firefox” will never be a thing...

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Just now, Sildani said:

I guess “Firefox” will never be a thing...

That'll be the last gen before everyone goes all ghost.

Must think in Russian...

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3 hours ago, Knight26 said:

Why is NATO even assigning callsigns anymore?  Why not adopt the Russian name on new aircraft?

Chinese aircraft also get their own NATO callsigns in some cases eg. J-8 Fishcan, J-11 Flanker-L.

Edited by Shadow

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16 hours ago, Shadow said:

Ehh. Fishbed wasn't exactly flattering either. With names like Fulcrum, Foxhound, Flanker and Fullback, "Felon" is just meh.

I was really hoping for something more insulting like flatfoot or Frisbee.

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2 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

I was really hoping for something more insulting like flatfoot or Frisbee.

I nominate Flapjack.

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Ooh! Tasty!

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19 hours ago, anime52k8 said:

I was really hoping for something more insulting like flatfoot or Frisbee.

I guess anything is better than what was chosen for MiG-15, at least by today's vernacular. I thought Fishcan was a great choice, right up there with Frogfoot.  For the Su-57, I would choose Freeloader.

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Segueing from all the fighter talk, I'm currently reading The Dream Machine by Richard Whittle which chronicles the difficult development of the V-22 Osprey. I'm only about a third of the way through the book, as it goes in depth concerning all the politicking and such that was going on in D.C., as well as difficulties in the working relationship between partners Bell and Boeing, and it can be a bit dry. However, it's an amazing story nonetheless, as it took any number of folks, from Bell, later Boeing, to heads of the military, most specifically the Marines , to congressional members to get the thing off the ground, both figuratively and metaphorically. It's a tragedy, both in human terms, but also in historic terms, that it has had a number of high-profile incidents which have negatively colored its general portrayal, especially in the media. Personally, I'm a huge fan of both the V-22 and the idea of the tilt-rotor. Through related V-22 searches, I just recently learned that a second tilt-rotor, the Bell V-280, is in development as part of the Future Vertical Lift program to create viable future helicopter and VTOL technologies for military applications. It looks to be comparable in size to the UH-60. There's also an unmanned multi-role version in development. Neat stuff, and I'm glad to see tilt-rotor technology still being advanced and developed. I wish we had them for commercial use, too, but that ship has yet to sail. I'd love the opportunity to fly in one.

As a related aside, Bell had a quad tilt-rotor concept that would have had a cargo capacity comparable to the C-130 planned around the turn of the millennium. It never came to pass, but I think it would have been cool to see in action.

I'd be remiss if I left out another contender for the FVL competition, the SB-1 Defiant, which incorporates coaxial counter-rotating main rotors, along with a pusher prop mounted perpendicular to the tail. Although not a new idea, this will be the first use of that arrangement in a US military helicopter if it proceeds into full-scale development for the Army, who historically favor choppers over tilt-rotors.

Ok, I've bumped enough- back to Russian fighters and their odd NATO nomenclatures.

Edited by M'Kyuun

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I read that book too. Pretty enjoyable, although I will concur it got a bit dry in the middle.

There's a lot of exciting developments in the rotary world coming to the US armed forces, like the Kiowa replacement in the form of the Future Attack Recon Aircraft (FARA) program.

https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2019/10/9/armys-future-attack-recon-aircraft-gains-momentum

The Bell Invictus looks quite cool, reminiscent of the Comanche.

 

Bell Invictus.jpeg

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I forgot about the Invictus; I just watched a vid on YouTube recently about it.  Pretty much, an updated successor to the Comanche.  Those wings give it a nice bit of lift in forward  motion, which reduces rotor loading and helps with fuel conservation. It probably kills its stealth profile, though. Concessions.

 

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I would imagine, considering the efforts they seem to have gone to to shape the fuselage to at least reduce the radar signature, that they've al;so consdired the effects of the wings. Do they have a slight sweep? I don't think I've seen that on a "winged" helicopter before.

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You'd think that a stealthy fuselage on a helicopter is as effective as dressing black for a nightly assault and then putting a rotating flashlight on your head.

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Something else I would expect is considered in these designs. I doubt people who design helicopters for a living somehow forget that the rotor blades are part of the machine too. :)

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For those of you who can access the BBC iPlayer service, they currently have a three part series about HMS Her Maj, excuse me, HMS Queen Elizabeth, "Britians Biggest Warship". Its the usual soap-opera style "military slice of life" stuff (young sailors on shore leave have a few drinks too many, get into trouble with the local plod - excuse me, law enforcement etc) interspersed with interesting footage of the F-35B Lightning II being tested off her decks (particularly in episode 2).

And if you want any further evidence that HMS Her Maj is a British warship, its the fact that her Captain (at the time of filming) has a drawer full of Salt "n" Vinegar crisps...

Edited by F-ZeroOne

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On 11/6/2019 at 9:33 AM, Knight26 said:

Why is NATO even assigning callsigns anymore?  Why not adopt the Russian name on new aircraft?

well... they have to pretend they're relevant somehow... LOL

 

On 11/6/2019 at 10:37 AM, Sildani said:

I don’t think the 57 even has a Russian name. From what I read, Russians call it the “PAK-FA” (phonetically) or “Soo-57” (57 in Russian.) And NATO is still very much a thing, with what, 11-12 languages to deal with. 

It's an acronym:

PAK FA - Russian: ПАК ФА, short for: Перспективный авиационный комплекс фронтовой авиации, 

romanized: Perspektivny Aviatsionny Kompleks Frontovoy Aviatsii, 

literal translation: ''prospective aeronautical complex of front-line air forces'' 

She has no other name that I'm aware of either.

 

but the Russians typically don't do the whole "Official cool name for morale" thing anyway, do they?

I know they do the "Unofficial nickname" thing though, for example: Mig-21 is the Balalaika.

for NATO reporting names, they seem to like "fulcrum" and "flanker", however the unflattering ones they just never even acknowledge. 

Edited by slide

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On 11/10/2019 at 10:29 AM, electric indigo said:

You'd think that a stealthy fuselage on a helicopter is as effective as dressing black for a nightly assault and then putting a rotating flashlight on your head.

I've always wondered exactly how much of a difference Comanche's stealth effort made to it's detectability.

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20 hours ago, F-ZeroOne said:

For those of you who can access the BBC iPlayer service, they currently have a three part series about HMS Her Maj, excuse me, HMS Queen Elizabeth, "Britians Biggest Warship". Its the usual soap-opera style "military slice of life" stuff (young sailors on shore leave have a few drinks too many, get into trouble with the local plod - excuse me, law enforcement etc) interspersed with interesting footage of the F-35B Lightning II being tested off her decks (particularly in episode 2).

And if you want any further evidence that HMS Her Maj is a British warship, its the fact that her Captain (at the time of filming) has a drawer full of Salt "n" Vinegar crisps...

Odd... I always thought Salt&Vinnegar chips was a Canadian thing, like Ketchup chips...

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Remind me to tell you about  Hedgehog flavour crisps sometime...

...er, anyway, flyey stuff! NATO callsigns are probably assigned for some of the same reasons they used codenames for Japanese aircraft in World War II; if you say "Felon" everyone knows you're referring to the Russian stealth fighter; if you say "Su-57" you have to wait while everyone tries to remember if thats the one with the canard, or their regional business jet, or didn't they try and make a floatplane once? :) It also, and I'm guessing here, means that everyone uses the same language designation rather than  whatever the local translation of "Sukhoi" or "57" is...

Edited by F-ZeroOne

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On 11/13/2019 at 2:03 PM, F-ZeroOne said:

Remind me to tell you about  Hedgehog flavour crisps sometime...

:shok: Good Lord... you folks have some odd tastes!:D

 

On 11/13/2019 at 2:03 PM, F-ZeroOne said:

NATO callsigns are probably assigned for some of the same reasons they used codenames for Japanese aircraft in World War II; if you say "Felon" everyone knows you're referring to the Russian stealth fighter; if you say "Su-57" you have to wait while everyone tries to remember if thats the one with the canard, or their regional business jet, or didn't they try and make a floatplane once?:)

could NATO at least stick to non-disparaging designations? "Su-57 Felon", "Mig-15 F***" [although this one became FAR more hilarious with Russia's "Anti LGBT Propaganda" laws], "Mig-21 Fishbed", "Tu-22 Backfire"

They're getting better ... but it's almost as if NATO doesn't like them! LOL

...although in the Su-25's case, wouldn't the NATO reporting name just make the French hungry?:p

 

On 11/13/2019 at 2:03 PM, F-ZeroOne said:

It also, and I'm guessing here, means that everyone uses the same language designation rather than  whatever the local translation of "Sukhoi" or "57" is...

In the Russian it would be Cy-57, so you're probably correct in that assumption.

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2 hours ago, slide said:

could NATO at least stick to non-disparaging designations? "Su-57 Felon", "Mig-15 F***" [although this one became FAR more hilarious with Russia's "Anti LGBT Propaganda" laws],

It gets worse as far as the Mig-15 is concerned. I can't relate the story of how the US got their hands on one without someone chuckling. First at the planes Nato name then at the North Korean's name who defected in it, No Kum-sok.

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15 hours ago, slide said:

:shok: Good Lord... you folks have some odd tastes!:D

 

could NATO at least stick to non-disparaging designations? "Su-57 Felon", "Mig-15 F***" [although this one became FAR more hilarious with Russia's "Anti LGBT Propaganda" laws], "Mig-21 Fishbed", "Tu-22 Backfire"

They're getting better ... but it's almost as if NATO doesn't like them! LOL

...although in the Su-25's case, wouldn't the NATO reporting name just make the French hungry?:p

 

Wasn't F***** meant to be the bundle of iron/metal pieces?

Thinking more about it now. Felon doesn't seem so bad given the stealth features of the Su-57. It's far less confusing then following each iteration of the Flanker family. (Flanker-B, Flanker-D, Flanker-E, H, etc.):wacko:

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Didn't heard any other names of our planes other than su-57/47/35 etc. Sometimes in press i heard something like "Su-35, NATO calls it Flanker", that's all.

I heard and read name PAKFA just until this plane got code "57"

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As i see at some webpages, name "White shark" used for one specific paint scheme, but i didn't heard this name officially, on TV or somewhere else.

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Just to reassure people, no hedgehogs were harmed in the making of hedgehog flavoured crisps.

I think. I mean, sometimes you'd get the odd one that served a dual function as a toothpick but...

Now I think about it, the NATO "If we give them silly names they'll sound less of a threat" possibility extended to helicopters too - Hip, Hind, Hokum (that one always felt deliberate)...

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55 minutes ago, F-ZeroOne said:

Just to reassure people, no hedgehogs were harmed in the making of hedgehog flavoured crisps.

I think. I mean, sometimes you'd get the odd one that served a dual function as a toothpick but...

Now I think about it, the NATO "If we give them silly names they'll sound less of a threat" possibility extended to helicopters too - Hip, Hind, Hokum (that one always felt deliberate)...

"Havoc" doesn't quite fit that mold then.:p I always thought NATO gave Soviet bombers the best callsigns. Backfire, Blinder, Bear, Blackjack, etc.

Edited by Shadow

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Forgot Badger... because those are pretty cool...  what do they do?  They badger you to death like an annoying spouse.

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While we're at it - is the Berkut the only fighter with a domestic Nickname?

And what type of aircraft gets a NATO M-code (Yak-130 "Mitten")?

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