Aircraft Super Thread Mk.VII

[Shadow]

Valkyrie Driver, again thanks for the comments. The Gripen was the plane that just sprang immediately to mind as being almost-available right now, but I'd forgotten that it would probably need to be licenced manufactured in the US. Another, and more "local" candidate, might be the latest versions of the F-16 being procured by foreign air forces (or Patlabors stealth-modded one? ).

I know the idea of somehow acquiring the Block 60 F-16 is popular. There is also the F-16V which could be a more realistic upgrade for the current F-16C fleet. You don't get the uprated GE engine but that APG-83 and Sniper pod would give the Viper a nice capability boost.

[F-ZeroOne]

Speaking of Gripens:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a20932/sweden-fighter-gripen-e/

I also saw an image of the PAK-FA today and it struck me that the canopy seems a bit... old school, the visibility seems like it would be worse even than the sometimes-criticised [1] F-35Bs. Im presuming its not the final canopy design?

[1] I'm English, this may be understatement.

[Smiley424]

http://www.guampdn.com/story/news/2016/05/18/downed-aircraft-reported-andersen-air-force-base-gfd-responding/84564970/

This just happened this morning at Andersen Air Force Base on Guam. Hopefully the reports are accurate and the crew made it off the plane safely. The BUFFs could use an engine swap from the 1960s vintage TF33s to something more modern. Let's just say I have worked too many 7 engine "emergency" B-52 landings in my ATC career.

[F-ZeroOne]

There have been a number of proposals to re-engine B-52s over the years, and I think just about all of them got canned due to costs. I think they're looking at it again though. Hope the crew are safe as reported!

[Shadow]

Speaking of Gripens:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a20932/sweden-fighter-gripen-e/

I also saw an image of the PAK-FA today and it struck me that the canopy seems a bit... old school, the visibility seems like it would be worse even than the sometimes-criticised [1] F-35Bs. Im presuming its not the final canopy design?

[1] I'm English, this may be understatement.

I like the Gripen but I still think the Swedes would have been wiser to have designed a medium fighter as their Viggen successor.

[Nazareno2012]

I like the Gripen but I still think the Swedes would have been wiser to have designed a medium fighter as their Viggen successor.

Yes but still it makes a nice, easy to maintain export design for countries such as Thailand, Brazil, Philippines, and others who want to replace F-5's or early block F-16's with a more modern fighter.

[Thom]

I like the Gripen but I still think the Swedes would have been wiser to have designed a medium fighter as their Viggen successor.

Dang, does the rear end remind me of the Tigershark, or what..?

[Shadow]

Dang, does the rear end remind me of the Tigershark, or what..?

I like to think of the Gripen as what the Tigershark could have been with even more up-to-date avionics.

[David Hingtgen]

The BUFFs could use an engine swap from the 1960s vintage TF33s to something more modern. Let's just say I have worked too many 7 engine "emergency" B-52 landings in my ATC career.

The engine sure exists, as the original version of the CFM56 was designed to replace the JT3D 2-for-1. That was the cornerstone of the DC-8-70 program.

How does the B-52 get air to pressurize the cockpit etc? Original DC-8's used turbocompressors, but the upgrade to the -70 removed them and they used bleed air from the new engines.

[Smiley424]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/18/us/guam-b52-crash/

Crew got out safely. The B-52 was on departure roll when they had to abort. As you can see, the plane is a total loss.

[grigolosi]

I know the idea of somehow acquiring the Block 60 F-16 is popular. There is also the F-16V which could be a more realistic upgrade for the current F-16C fleet. You don't get the uprated GE engine but that APG-83 and Sniper pod would give the Viper a nice capability boost.

Just to give you an idea of what you get in a Blk 60 F-16 Shadow. Yes you get a glass cockpit, and AESA. But in the end you end up with 3 ECS packages for radar cooling, a bigger nose tire, and an analog brake system. The current Blk 40/42/50/52 all have digital brake control systems. in layman's terms they can actually land and takeoff with a heavier load if need be i.e. 600 gal tanks, conformals, weapons etc. . The analog system is prone to burning out brakes with heavy landing loads. Essentially the block 60 is the equivalent of putting thousand dollar rims on a 96 Honda Civic. There are newer and better AESA systems out there that require less internal aircraft system support (cooling). Plus the block 60 was essentially a private venture between the UAE and Lockheed. It was never intended for sale to any other countries. The UAE funded the program from the start. That is the main reason you will never see it used by any other air force.

As for the engine...I am a big GE fan. The F-100-GE-110 series are great engines but the 132 has its issues right now. Mainly with higher operating temps. These are causing the engine to kick out 173 MFL's. basically the turbines aare getting so hot that the turbine blade aeration holes are micro fracturing from hole to hole. Currently once the engine kicks out three 173's in a row the engine has to be removed and sent to backshop for the blades to replaced.

I know currently the USAF wants to upgrade their F-16's to AESA systems but with budget constraints, it like many other needed items are on hold.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Look man, we get it, you hate cooling systems. Not every plane is spending its days in the UAE.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Look man, we get it, you hate cooling systems. Not every plane is spending its days in the UAE.

Um... The Block 60 F-16E is a UAE contract. All of those planes are destined to go to the UAE. By nature of the fact that the UAE paid for the program development, and is paying for the actual airframes.

[frothymug]

Riding the commuter bus to the university this morning and finally saw a Dreamlifter out on the runway at Paine Field in Everett, WA. I see one parked out near the Future of Flight Museum all the time, as I live right down the road from there. This is the first time I've seen it actually in operation.

Sorry, I should have taken a picture...

[SchizophrenicMC]

Um... The Block 60 F-16E is a UAE contract. All of those planes are destined to go to the UAE. By nature of the fact that the UAE paid for the program development, and is paying for the actual airframes.

Aircraft in general. I know the Block 60 is the UAE's bird. But all Grigurgeaiugrag ever talks about is cooling systems. Cooling systems on missiles, cooling systems on F-35s, cooling systems for engines, for oil, for fuel, for cooling systems. So much cooling. We get it, it's hot in the middle east.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Aircraft in general. I know the Block 60 is the UAE's bird. But all Grigurgeaiugrag ever talks about is cooling systems. Cooling systems on missiles, cooling systems on F-35s, cooling systems for engines, for oil, for fuel, for cooling systems. So much cooling. We get it, it's hot in the middle east.

Um a few points:

1. It's Grigolosi, if you're going to criticize someone, at least get the name right. Also, it's discourteous, and shows your arrogance. If you can't be polite, be quiet.

2. He's a retired F-16 crew chief. And he's going to go into details when it's relevant.

3. Cooling systems are very important, since even at higher altitudes, friction on the airframe will cause the whole thing to heat up. Also, jet engines generate a tremendous amount of heat, far more than a typical reciprocating engine.

4. When we've mentioned cooling systems on missiles, it's been specifically in reference to IR seekers, which require cooling for the all-aspect functionality.

Keeping things properly cooled and operating within a specific range of temperatures is important to ensure proper function.

5. It's not just the Middle East. Our military Aircraft need to be able to operate anywhere, and maybe you don't realize just how hot it can get in the US. The Gulf coast is damn near tropical. And not the fun kind. Florida is down right unpleasant in the summer, and you can set your watch by the thunderstorms near the coast. There's a place in California, called Fort Irwin, where the US Army sends people to get training in desert environments. It can routinely get hotter there than it gets in Afghanistan and Iraq, and it's equally as land locked. It's in Death Valley, not too far from Edwards AFB. These places are damn close to being hell on earth, and when you have places like that in your own country, your aircraft should be able to operate in those areas.

6. And finally, Some of us actually find those "boring" details rather interesting. It gives us more knowledge on a subject we're interested in, and with that comes a limited understanding of how it works in order to make better judgements regarding an airframe's performance. Which I find far better than making judgements based off of simply looking cool, or being ugly.

But hey, what do I know? You keep on making those dismissive comments, snide remarks, hasty generalizations, straw man arguments, and unsubstantiated claims, as if they were the gospel truth. When he stops sharing his knowledge, our understanding will suffer, and all this thread will be reduced to is, "Hey, look at the new shiny"...

[grigolosi]

No I don't just talk about the cooling systems. I don't hate the cooling the system. Fact of the matter is Valkyrie is right. If you want I can tell you how remove the flaperon, PDU, or engine. I was explaining the differences in the frame between the blocks. But I guess I will keep my mouth shut since you know all. I guess 20 yrs of practical experience is nothing to reading articles written by folks who never fixed one of these birds and regurgitating it to everyone. If being completely rude and condescending to me is necessary in your world than be it.

Edited May 23, 2016 by grigolosi

[grigolosi]

Here is a throwback, one of the first block 30 aggressors from Kunsan prior to the transfer to Eielson with its new aggressor scheme just out of the paint barn.

[grigolosi]

Meanwhile in Hornet land........

[Mazinger]

Not sure if this was posted elsewhere:

Found on: https://news.vice.com/article/navy-releases-full-video-footage-of-russian-fighter-jets-buzzing-us-warship-in-the-baltic?utm_source=vicenewsfbads

[Valkyrie Driver]

Looks like Russia is spoiling for a fight. Either that oor they know they can intimidate us into doing whatever they want...

[Knight26]

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

[grigolosi]

I saw that commercial last night, someone on one of the FB pages posted it. Boeing did an awesome job with that. I am not a huge Eagle fan but it made me want one. I especially liked that black paint job they used on the jets in the commercial. It may have been glossy looking but it definitely added character to them.

They are definitely testing us Valkyrie. A big way to ascertain a potential opponents capabilities is to pull stunts like this. They did this stuff a lot during the Cold war to gauge our response times. But they also believe that the Baltic and Black Sea are their private bodies of water traditionally (at least in the since in the past 70 yrs).

Edited May 24, 2016 by grigolosi

[anime52k8]

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

for real though, it always makes me sad when they talk improved F-15's and then they don't look like an F-15Kai

[Valkyrie Driver]

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

That's pretty sick. Would be nice if we would procure them.

I saw that commercial last night, someone on one of the FB pages posted it. Boeing did an awesome job with that. I am not a huge Eagle fan but it made me want one. I especially liked that black paint job they used on the jets in the commercial. It may have been glossy looking but it definitely added character to them.

I've always loved the F-15, even though she is a big bird. Back when I was first going through college, I wanted to fly the F-15E. Mostly because of the fact that it would get the most combat missions and actually get things done. This Advanced F-15 looks pretty capable.

They are definitely testing us Valkyrie. A big way to ascertain a potential opponents capabilities is to pull stunts like this. They did this stuff a lot during the Cold war to gauge our response times. But they also believe that the Baltic and Black Sea are their private bodies of water traditionally (at least in the since in the past 70 yrs).

The big thing is though, that's a blatant violation of treaty. Simulated attack runs against naval vessels are an act of aggression, which could turn become an international incident. All it takes is one mistake, one Aircraft with loaded wings to do it, and then we shoot it down. Then we're at war with Russia. Putin has been pulling a lot of these shenanigans lately, blatant violations of treaty in order to expand his influence, and prove us weak.

[grigolosi]

One mistake would be catastrophic. Look what happened in the 90's when a Japanese naval vessel had its CIWS set in the wrong mode with live ammo loaded. It shredded a US Navy A-6 during a combined exercise. Fortunately the Intruder crew ejected. People don't realise what kind of game they are playing in these situations until something bad happens.

[Shadow]

I recall reading a story about a former Soviet pilot stating these kind of flybys are even a step above what they did in the Cold War, atleast in the mid-to late 80s.

As for the F-16E Block 60s. I realize it can't be contracted to any other country and not stating we should even try for it. I thought the specs of the F-16V however presented a more realistic upgrade for atleast a portion of our Viper fleet, if the budget is ever there.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Shadow

[grigolosi]

Absolutely correct Shadow. The budget is still the biggest constraint to the F-16V upgrade. Modding the fleet to the newer AESA systems is actually fairly simple. The newer ones are essentially replacing the older APG dish with the scan array and replacing several of the boxes in the aviaonics bays ( mainly under doors 1202,1101, and the radome 1100). It has no requirement for an extra PAO system to be routed through the aircraft also since that part is self contained in the AESA system. But the cost per mod kit will get expensive quick. We will have to wait and see what happens here in the future with the budgets.

[David Hingtgen]

The Gripen E unveil is so similar, but so much better:

As for the F-15 vid---for trying to entice multi-billion dollar contracts, they could at least get the CG model right---it has both the larger E-style tailhook, AND the original early 70's tailhook fairing. I don't think those two things can exist simultaneously, and the latter hasn't been around for a while...

[anime52k8]

maybe that's part of the upgrade.

[Scyla]

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

Itano!!!

http://aviationhumor.net/advanced-f-15-badass-commercial/

So the future are glossy fighter jets?

[David Hingtgen]

Am I nuts or does the Super Hornet have an unusual number of mid-air collisions? Another pair was just lost from VFA-211. All crew OK, thankfully.

[grigolosi]

They seem to lately. But eh F-16 world went through the same issue yrs ago. We were having collisions quite often several yrs ago also. It seemed like every time you saw the headlines it was another F-16 collision. I guess it is the Hornets turn right now.

[Beltane70]

Saw this beauty today at my little hometown's airport.

[Sildani]

That's just lovely. Queen of the sky, right there.