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Nice haul, Mike. Other than the cassettes and Jetfire, these old toys aren't really for me, but I get it from a nostalgia angle.

Bringing things up to the present, there was a display of the War for Cybertron: Siege figures at NYCC this past weekend and pics are popping up on the various TF sites. I pulled the link from TFW2005: http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/10/04/nycc-2018-transformers-siege-figures-high-res-on-display-images-373346

Hasbro's milking G1 hard in this line, at least in their bot modes. Alt modes seem to be all over the place. They're supposed to have a war-torn look, but to my eyes, many of them look like they've been held next to a candle just a little too long. Starscream is interesting, as they went with a tetra-jet alt; however, he's basically a bot under a plane, as both his arms and legs can be seen hanging under the jet. Not much of a Transformer when 50% of the bot isn't involved. They finally made a Reflector, consisting of three deluxe figs; from the pics I've seen, they weren't displayed in their alt mode, but the bot modes are based off the toon look. Pretty stoked for these guys; been waiting a long time. I just hope they actually turn into a camera and not some weird space vehicle.

Soundwave can dispense pseudo-cassettes from his chest, although they look smaller and less complex than the G1 cassettes.<_< Soundwave turns into some sort of space barge.

I'm generally not a fan of Cybertronian alts, as more often than not, they look like robots doing yoga, or the alts are so far removed from anything relatable that the transformation is moot. I see a bit of both in this line, not to mention lazy transformations where bits of the bot stick out like a sore thumb rather than being integrated into the transformation. Megatron's feet, for example- ok tank mode with big robot feet sticking up from the back.  That's fine for the preschool line, but at $20, I think the Generations line should be more refined than that regardless of the aesthetic. 

I love the G1 look of the bots in Siege, but most of the alt modes are pretty off-putting to me. It makes me hope there'll be a follow-up line that puts them back on Earth.

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10 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Other than the cassettes and Jetfire, these old toys aren't really for me, but I get it from a nostalgia angle.

No, I completely get that.  I didn't have Devastator as a kid; I picked up the reissue to go with the rest of my Devastators (Combiner Wars, Hercules, Giant, Hulkie, oversized KO Hulkie, Gravity Builder, and Constructor).  When I was messing with it I was pretty floored by how bad G1 Devastator actually is.  There's no way I'm picking up the reissue Starscream.  I'm kind of tempted by Hot Rod, because I did have him (twice, actually; I had the regular one, and after my cousin broke it my parents bought me the Targetmaster version).  Toy engineering has come a long way in the last 30 years.

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27 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

I was pretty floored by how bad G1 Devastator actually is.

I fell in love with the original Transformers cartoon as a kid, but always hated the toys for how poorly they represented the onscreen characters.  Scale, proportion, articulation, likeness -- they failed every criteria I had for action figures and character merchandise alike.  With historical perspective, I realize this was entirely Sunbow's fault (talk about false advertising!), but I still don't see the appeal of G1 reissues.

Masterpiece, on the other hand...  :wub:

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 Masterpiece is their apology for all the craptastic toys they put out in the 80's; apology accepted, mostly. ;)

I remember getting Prowl, my first Transformer toy, with both the cartoon and the lovely boxart fueling my anticipation.  The bubble burst pretty quickly once I started messing with him, and the trend continued for most of the other TF toys I owned. I still think Soundwave was one of the better toys, though, and the cassettes are still awesome.

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1 hour ago, tekering said:

I fell in love with the original Transformers cartoon as a kid, but always hated the toys for how poorly they represented the onscreen characters.  Scale, proportion, articulation, likeness -- they failed every criteria I had for action figures and character merchandise alike.  With historical perspective, I realize this was entirely Sunbow's fault (talk about false advertising!), but I still don't see the appeal of G1 reissues. 

Masterpiece, on the other hand...  :wub:

Personally, I am somewhere in the middle.

The original toys looked frickin' awesome, and the cartoon was a serious disappointment in that regard. ON THE OTHER HAND, most of the original toys featured minimal articulation, to put it nicely, and were hard-pressed to do more than stand straight upright and stick their arm out with a gun in, over, or replacing the hand.  

This is why Shockwave was the best Transformer. He had two legs, with independent hips and knees, shoulders, and two-axis elbows. Also electronic lights and sound you could use to terrorize your dog and antagonize your sister.   Jetfire is first runner-up because he has two legs with hips and knees, two-axis shoulders and elbows, but no electronic lights or sounds.

 

 

I've owned one piece from the Masterpiece line, MP-01. And while it was lovely in robot mode, and pretty okay in truck mode, it was a completely unfun cheating mess of a transformation that I'd rather not have ever had to deal with. It was also top-heavy and did a forward somersault off my shelf and destroyed a leg when it failed to stick the landing. The matrix of leadership now rests in the tiny clawed hands of Classics Grimlock.

Edited by JB0
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On 10/5/2018 at 11:57 AM, mikeszekely said:

IMG_20181005_145513.thumb.jpg.f7944788220e90f6a4bc534d20359ee7.jpg

Thanks, Walmart!

I love the packaging.  I no longer collect or play with loose G1 and I still have all of my sealed G1 and G1 reissues.  If I ever saw this set I might buy it.  For now I have the Encore reissue but the US packaging looks nice.

870F5BAA-7A72-4F28-A448-1E839290E96B.jpeg.4549b8d36aeae502c484ec936bc7d49f.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...

For those interested, A Studio Series Prime (slight remold to combine with Jetfire), Jetfire, and Bonecrusher have been revealed. http://news.tfw2005.com/2018/10/26/transformers-studio-series-optimus-prime-and-bonecrusher-official-images-374864

Bonecrusher looks good, a nice update to the 2007 toy.

Jetfire- 36 steps to transform into a robot under a jet.  I'll never understand Has/Tak's design dichotomy between ground vehicles, which generally fully conceal the robot within the confines of the vehicle's shape, and aircraft, which generally have bits of robot hanging off, if not the entire bot hanging off the bottom. To that end, Thank you, Kawamori-san, for your lovely valks. I wish Has/Tak would take notes.

I've no interest in any of these guys, even if Bonecrusher looks to be a really nice update. My interest in Bayformers has all but evaporated, and as of right now, the only Studio Series figure I'm looking forward to is Dropkick from the Bumblebee Movie. I can't recall there ever being an AH-1, at least in deluxe or bigger class, in the last 30+ years of TFs, and the bot mode looks more akin to regular TFs than Bay's typical shard-bots, so I'm kinda excited to get a copy when it comes out. It's getting some flak on the TFW boards for not being a triple-changer as he is in the Bee Movie, but I'm kinda glad they just focused on the AH-1 mode, as it looks purty good to my eye, and trying to give him his car mode would have entailed too many compromises, especially at the deluxe scale. 

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Well well well... looks like I'm getting my wish.  Shown at the Paris Comic-Con was Voyager-class Studio Series Bonecrusher, which along with the previously announced Deluxe Barricade completes the movie 1 cast (ok, technically Megatron is RotF, but that's close enough).

Interestingly, it looks like we're also getting another Voyager Optimus Prime, and it doesn't look like a straight-up repaint of the first one.  Although it's going to be packaged with the highway battle scene from the first movie, the changes seem to be so that it can combine with a third announcement- Leader-class Studio Series Jetfire.

Not revealed at the con, but show in some leaked photos, was a Megatron figure based on Dark of the Moon.  It was next to the Leader Jetfire, so Leader-class?  Seems to me like that'd be too big, but whatever.

EDIT: Looks like @M'Kyuun beat me to it.

Edited by mikeszekely
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4 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

Jetfire- 36 steps to transform into a robot under a jet.  I'll never understand Has/Tak's design dichotomy between ground vehicles, which generally fully conceal the robot within the confines of the vehicle's shape, and aircraft, which generally have bits of robot hanging off, if not the entire bot hanging off the bottom.

Modification of the old Leader-class toy instead of a new mold with sanity? Dammit!

 

In fairness to Hasbro, the ground vehicles don't have to look good from every direction like planes do, and are boxy enough that there's a lot of space to hide parts in.

In MORE fairness, most of their plane-robots are just flat-out lazy. They realized it is going to be hard to do right, so phone the entire design in.

And then there's TF2 Jetfire, which could almost be separated into a complete robot and a complete plane. That isn't even lazy engineering, it just isn't trying at all.

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Sorry to steal your thunder, Mike. But, glad you're getting the whole '07 cast. As I said, I think that Bonecrusher looks rather respectable, but I've just lost interest in Bayformers. I have a healthy collection of them from over the years; so many of them were incredible little feats of engineering. I figure the period between 2007 to 2012 or so was really a kind of golden age for TFs, so far as complex engineering, high parts counts, and fair to decent paint apps go. We got Classics, Movieverse, Prime, and Animated in this timeframe, not to mention the new MP line, and any number of these toys still resonate with me. 

1 minute ago, JB0 said:

Modification of the old Leader-class toy instead of a new mold with sanity? Dammit!

 

In fairness to Hasbro, the ground vehicles don't have to look good from every direction like planes do, and are boxy enough that there's a lot of space to hide parts in.

In MORE fairness, most of their plane-robots are just flat-out lazy. They realized it is going to be hard to do right, so phone the entire design in.

And then there's TF2 Jetfire, which could almost be separated into a complete robot and a complete plane. That isn't even lazy engineering, it just isn't trying at all.

The thing is, and I know from hands-on experience, planes are bigger than cars, with the exception of the F-16, which can double as a key fob. I jest, but the F-15, the F-14, the F-22, the SR-71, etc  are large machines with a fair amount of fuselage that could contain a folded robot within its profile, especially if accordianing joints and some creative origami is applied. They managed it with Leader Jetfire, the MP seeker mold (love or hate it, it does a good job of squashing the bot into an F-15), The B-2 Bomber Megatron (which took a little license, but still enfolds the bot into the plane rather well), the recent Powerglide figure, Prime Soundwave's drone mode, etc. I'm sure there are other decent examples, but for the most part, the engineering for most TF jets ranges from lazy to not even trying, as you said. I absolutely hate the trend of just having the arms hanging off the jet, or just compressing them somewhat along the fuselage instead of finding a solution that incorporates them. It would never stand on a ground vehicle, so why do the fans live with it on jets?  I don't know, but it bugs me.

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15 minutes ago, JB0 said:

Modification of the old Leader-class toy instead of a new mold with sanity? Dammit!

Eh?  It looks like a new mold to me.

Anyway, I think I'm probably in for all three.  Bonecrusher was a given.  I want to see how much they actually changed on Prime.  If I pass on Jetfire, it'll be because of the price.

Anway, as for hiding robots in cars but under planes, a Datsun 280ZX is something like 174" long and 51" tall... so the height is almost 30% of the length.  An SR-71 is almost 107 and a half feet long, but only 18.5' feet high.  That's only about 17%.  Now, I'm not saying it's impossible for planes to hide their robots better, especially on boxier planes like an F-15 or a MiG-31.  But I do see how, given how much thinner some planes are proportionally, it can be more difficult.  On a mass-market toy, even a Leader-class, the budget probably isn't there.  There's been some pretty good planes in the MP space, though.  The Seekers, be they Takara, Maketoys, or ToyWorld/Zeta.  GT's Tyrant (IDW Bomber Megatron).  FT Phoenix (Jetfire).  DX9 Richthofen (Powerglide).  Zeta's Aerialbots (so far) are fairly tidy, if a little chunky, which I think is forgivable since they're also combiner limbs (I think their Silverbolt will be worse, but again I think the Concord is proportionally thinner than the fighters that make up the limbs).  I don't know how it's going to be in hand, but FT's Quietus (Cyclonus) looks pretty great in jet mode.

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51 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

Eh?  It looks like a new mold to me.

I didn't see the pic, just saw the comment about the robot hanging under the plane, and assumed. If it is a new mold, then whoo. Maybe it won't absolutely suck.

I'm still waiting until it comes out, because I want it more for the Blackbird than the farting hunchback.

51 minutes ago, mikeszekely said:

On a mass-market toy, even a Leader-class, the budget probably isn't there. 

Wasn't leader Jetfire heavily compromised by the "need" to include battery and sound box?

That and Jetfire wasn't really designed to transform. They had a robot, and a vehicle, and little physical relation between the two. Big problem with animation-first designs.

Edited by JB0
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7 hours ago, JB0 said:

I didn't see the pic, just saw the comment about the robot hanging under the plane, and assumed. If it is a new mold, then whoo. Maybe it won't absolutely suck.

Then allow me to rectify that.  Comparison pics courtesy of TWF2005's Cheem.

JT03.thumb.jpg.7f3089b4b7345c08b2876128161216c2.jpg

JT04.thumb.jpg.d49d0b8c9e6e60a434c32fee9a8f0cbd.jpg

And for those who were curious about the new Prime-

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OP01.thumb.jpg.33c1e8cd5f8e225e170707c774cbac0d.jpg

Tiny combined pic-

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7 hours ago, JB0 said:

Wasn't leader Jetfire heavily compromised by the "need" to include battery and sound box?

Maybe?  I don't know how much ditching it would help with the alt mode, though.  It certainly made for a chunky robot torso.  The combining gimmick probably doesn't help, either.

7 hours ago, JB0 said:

That and Jetfire wasn't really designed to transform. They had a robot, and a vehicle, and little physical relation between the two. Big problem with animation-first designs.

This is probably the biggest issue with Bayverse designs.  The designers, for the first three movies at least, stuck alt mode parts in places to at least try (and mostly fail) to give the sense that they're robots who transform into stuff, but they seem to have given very little thought about how to get from one point to another.  That's how you end up with parts of the engine nacelles in Jetfire's legs and the cockpit on his head, but the stuff around those parts just disappears.  

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None of the Bayverse designs were given to any realistic transformation mechanics. Moreover, anything that segments into many smaller pieces is going to have noticeable seams everywhere, as we've all seen on any number of TF toys (MP-36 anyone?). Aircraft have obvious seams everywhere, both for panels, and in areas with numerous moving parts, like landing gear bays, and any number of structural members or linkages to connect them. So, when the '07 movie was coming out and they were boasting about the 'realistic' transformations, where these large chunks of vehicles separated and somehow dissolved into the shardy chaos arranged all over these skeletal bots, my reaction was one of incredulity and disappointment. Plus, they were ugly, and didn't look anything like Transformers up to that point.  That Takara was able to make working transformable toys at all from these illogical CG creations is a testament to their innovation, talent, and imagination.

I keep hoping that a top-to-bottom reboot will happen, and that eventually more mechanically feasible designs will grace the big screen. The Bumblebee Movie just picks up where Bay left off, and uses a similar design aesthetic, so all this talk of 'reboot', at least so far as the look of the bots is concerned, is just talk. I do hope that Travis puts more focus on the Transformer characters, but the feeling I get from the trailers is that it's basically a girl and her (big yellow transforming) dog, featuring Bee as the Lassie of this generation. 

So far as squeezing a bot into any shape of aircraft fuselage, Kawamori has been doing this for decades, creating clean, realistic looking aircraft that transform without resorting to strapping a bot under a plane, or having limbs hanging off obviously. Takara have worked with Kawamori (he designed the original seekers, and reworked the MP seeker mold), so it's surprising that they don't take his cue on more of their aircraft designs. 

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Studio Series Constructicons confirmed- Rampage (voyager) will be 37, 41 is Scrap Metal (Deluxe), and 42 is Long Haul (Voyager).  Now, I don't know if RotF was ever clear on exactly which Constructicons were which, and which ones (or even how many) were necessary to make Devastator, so I don't know how accurately that's going to scale with the other SS figures.  There's no Constructicon Scrap Metal listed on TFWiki- closest name-wise is Scrapper, but Scrapper is shown to be a front loader.  All I can tell you is that Rampage is a red bulldozer, Long Haul is a green dump truck, and Scrap Metal is a yellow excavator.  While no other Constructicons have been announced yet, more will be coming, and yes, they will be able to combine.

192203270_MCMComicCon2018-StudioSeriesDevastatorPrototypeCloseUpPhotos05__scaled_600.jpg.a1393c941bc031361e720047b025490e.jpg

Also announced, but less exciting, is Shatter, a Deluxe-class that turns into a red '71 Plymouth GTX from the Bumblebee movie, and Deluxe-class Cogman.  Cogman appears to be the same as the previous TLK Deluxe-class toy, but with a more premium paint job.

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2 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

FlameToys Tarn LOOKS like it's slated to be delivered tomorrow so if anyone has any picture requests or general questions about it let me know.

yes i do....i was wondering how the shoulder articulate, it looks a bit odd and most pics don't show arms above his head or pointing directly infront, just overall build quality etc. i hope to see a review soon too...thank you

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3 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

FlameToys Tarn LOOKS like it's slated to be delivered tomorrow so if anyone has any picture requests or general questions about it let me know.

I‘m super excited about Tarn. I‘m a bit confused what the difference is between the regular mask and the one added to the D4Toys orders.

Edited by Scyla
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14 hours ago, sh9000 said:

11887AF0-0E49-4543-B2F3-6D7D66BDAE00.jpeg.209aaef2c6edb27e3d9e06bda8d92e62.jpeg

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The more I see of these Siege figures, the more I hope that an Earth alt mode series is next in the line, as this is supposed to be just a part of another series of interconnected lines. Gotta say, they're definitely ticking the nostalgia box with the bot modes in this line, although I can take or leave some of the Cybertronian modes (Sideswipe, Prowl, good; Prime and Ultra Magnus, terrible). But the bot modes are shaping up to be what I think many of us thought, or even hoped, that Classics would be when it was first announced. I think many of the CHUG molds we've had over the years were really cool, even if they weren't slavish to the G1 models. This line looks to be closer to the poor man's MP, getting much closer to the G1 bot modes than any main line since the originals, MP excluded. I dig it, and look forward to an Earth alt line, especially if they continue to keep the bots so faithful to both toy and toon, a nice middle ground that I wish the MP series had maintained. After they're done with this series, though, I hope they get the G1 out of their system, and do something like they did with Animated, a new design aesthetic ( just no shards attached to skeletons, please) married to a really good story,  with all new characters. No more Optimus Prime, no more Bumblebee- a completely fresh cast with their own story. I get that both of those characters are synonymous with TFs, but I think, creatively, it would be nice to see something new and different than just another rehash of Prime and company  fighting Megatron and company.

A story set at the turn of the century would be fun, seeing our intrepid team adapt to the Industrial Revolution. I think it'd be interesting if these characters started out factionless scientists with a small security team on a survey mission, with a rift forming between the two as to priorities. I think it'd be neat if the scientists created the Insecticons as an experiment to help aid farmers, but as time wears on, the Insecticons become greedy and uncontrollable. Ideas like this would be cool to see- explore some of the lesser characters, or create all new ones. It's time for another Beast Wars or Animated to change things up.

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12 hours ago, Numbninja said:

yes i do....i was wondering how the shoulder articulate, it looks a bit odd and most pics don't show arms above his head or pointing directly infront, just overall build quality etc. i hope to see a review soon too...thank you

I didn't get a chance to play with it while unboxing it (I just shot home on my lunch break to get it off the porch and make sure it didn't freeze,) but of course I'll go through the motions during the review.

11 hours ago, Scyla said:

I‘m super excited about Tarn. I‘m a bit confused what the difference is between the regular mask and the one added to the D4Toys orders.

One is just a clean decepticon symbol and one has the comic-accurate scratches through one of the eyes.

1-354.png

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3 hours ago, Kuma Style said:

I didn't get a chance to play with it while unboxing it (I just shot home on my lunch break to get it off the porch and make sure it didn't freeze,) but of course I'll go through the motions during the review.

One is just a clean decepticon symbol and one has the comic-accurate scratches through one of the eyes.

1-354.png

jesus, you some how managed to maje it look even better

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6 hours ago, M'Kyuun said:

The more I see of these Siege figures, the more I hope that an Earth alt mode series is next in the line, as this is supposed to be just a part of another series of interconnected lines. Gotta say, they're definitely ticking the nostalgia box with the bot modes in this line, although I can take or leave some of the Cybertronian modes (Sideswipe, Prowl, good; Prime and Ultra Magnus, terrible). But the bot modes are shaping up to be what I think many of us thought, or even hoped, that Classics would be when it was first announced. I think many of the CHUG molds we've had over the years were really cool, even if they weren't slavish to the G1 models. This line looks to be closer to the poor man's MP, getting much closer to the G1 bot modes than any main line since the originals, MP excluded. I dig it, and look forward to an Earth alt line, especially if they continue to keep the bots so faithful to both toy and toon, a nice middle ground that I wish the MP series had maintained.

I give Classics a lot of credit, as it's what got me into collecting for the first time since I was a kid with my G1 toys.  And admittedly Siege looks pretty good.  I just don't know if I'm going to bother.  The switch from Generations to Seige seems like a good jumping off point, and while I don't presume to speak for everybody I know I've personally transitioned more to MP and 3P MP-ish stuff anyway.

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On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 12:45 AM, JB0 said:

And then there's TF2 Jetfire, which could almost be separated into a complete robot and a complete plane. That isn't even lazy engineering, it just isn't trying at all.

I came THIS close to achieving it---there was one VERY tough pin preventing me from doing so, but I got 95% of the way there.  Should have taken a picture.  Honestly, should have just forced it, accepting it if it broke, just to show how utterly separate the two modes were.  To this day I complain about how phoned-in it was---the few spots that DID offer some "internal volume to hide robot parts", were ignored and left hollow.  They didn't even seem to try. 

"Let's just put 100% of the robot underneath" 

"But what about the big empty engin----"

"No, I said 100% of the robot underneath!" 

Yeesh, he's got 2 big empty engine housings, and his engine-thighs are completely separate parts, hanging down below...

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3 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

I came THIS close to achieving it---there was one VERY tough pin preventing me from doing so, but I got 95% of the way there.  Should have taken a picture.  Honestly, should have just forced it, accepting it if it broke, just to show how utterly separate the two modes were.  To this day I complain about how phoned-in it was---the few spots that DID offer some "internal volume to hide robot parts", were ignored and left hollow.  They didn't even seem to try. 

"Let's just put 100% of the robot underneath" 

"But what about the big empty engin----"

"No, I said 100% of the robot underneath!" 

Yeesh, he's got 2 big empty engine housings, and his engine-thighs are completely separate parts, hanging down below...

Somebody should have pointed out the VF-14 to the folks at both ILM and Takara and said make it close to this.

Edit:  Chinese reviewer Kevin Liu posted a review of upcoming Studio Series Dropkick from the Bumblebee Movie. https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/transformation-video-for-transformers-studio-series-22-dropkick/42336/ 

This is the only SS figure I intend to get, and the review cements my opinion.  The transformation is pretty neat, although I wish they'd found a way to hide the hands better in chopper mode. He has a little kibble, but nothing obnoxious. I'm still glad they eschewed trying to squeeze his car mode into the figure and just concentrated on making a decent AH-1 Cobra.

Edited by M'Kyuun
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7 hours ago, David Hingtgen said:

I came THIS close to achieving it---there was one VERY tough pin preventing me from doing so, but I got 95% of the way there.  Should have taken a picture.  Honestly, should have just forced it, accepting it if it broke, just to show how utterly separate the two modes were.  To this day I complain about how phoned-in it was---the few spots that DID offer some "internal volume to hide robot parts", were ignored and left hollow.  They didn't even seem to try. 

"Let's just put 100% of the robot underneath" 

"But what about the big empty engin----"

"No, I said 100% of the robot underneath!" 

Yeesh, he's got 2 big empty engine housings, and his engine-thighs are completely separate parts, hanging down below...

I'm curious what FansToys does with their Silverbolt. Their renders (which pixeled the underside of the Concorde) show that they did something with the engine nacelles and maybe they did something with the forward fuselage with all the joints in there. It will probably just collapse into itself though. However it looks much better than all the other Silverbolts we've seen. TFCs one comes into mind where you could separate the bot from the plane and display them simultaneously.

 

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